Mar 24, 2013
mklcolvin BTW, where is the tethering option that was promised? I'd much rather use my existing data plans than to add a new one!�
Mar 24, 2013
riceuguy Assuming you have the tech package, you need to have the GPS up on the dash to keep getting navigation when offline, IIRC.�
Mar 24, 2013
ckessel What exactly is dependent on the 3G?
- Google maps
- Slacker, which is also going to cost more as well when the basic service that came with the car expires, right?
- Internet radio (called Tune-In, I think?)
Anything else?
I'll miss Slacker somewhat, but given it'll cost at some point regardless of the 3G I wasn't going to rebuy it anyway. Now, if the monthly fee includes Slacker then that does add a little bit to the value.
I can't really get upset with Tesla for whatever the final cost is if all they're doing is passing it along. I may not find value in it at the tentative $30 price point, but there's not much point in yelling at Tesla. As someone else noted, if Tesla were to eat the 3G cost for the life of the vehicle that'd be a huge hit to their profit margins.�
Mar 24, 2013
Lloyd The mobile app!�
Mar 24, 2013
carrerascott Thank God the mobile app is free. Imagine the thread if they charged for it!
�
Mar 24, 2013
efusco Since we all seem to be chiming in, I'll add my 2 bits...
I think that if someone wants 3G/4G/LTE as a complete stand alone then $30 isn't terrible. Hard to get any device with 3g without paying at least that much if it is a stand alone device.
I think that 95% of us should be allowed to add on 3G/4G/LTE in our Tesla to our existing cellular account--which for most of us would be an additional $10/mo.
I think the option of tethering with no imbedded 3G should be available, but, IMO, this is less than ideal, my wife's phone doesn't tether, I'd like the car to be able to receive updates and to be able to access the various app functions at all times. it is not the option I would choose, but can understand that for some it would be adequate.
Finally, if we are forced to pay the $30 rate it is inevitable that someone is gonna hack this thing, figure out where the SIM is located and we're all gonna be replacing the SIM with a much cheaper option, probably an add on to our cellular accounts or Straight-Talk or something like that.�
Mar 24, 2013
shady I agree with everything (although I'm not interested in removing panels to add my own SIM)
I should add, that if I can buy a hotspot device that can be left in the car and I can add it to my plan for an additional $10, then that would work as well.�
Mar 24, 2013
efusco That's a good thought that I hadn't considered, would certainly be cheaper to buy that and pay $10/mo than to pay $30/mo ongoing.�
Mar 24, 2013
ModelS1079 Kevin, how do we most easily measure the speed?
- - - Updated - - -
Refreshing. Thanks, Cinergi. Heard there will be battery exchanges for the Model S on the highway, right?�
Mar 24, 2013
Cheerose Not an owner (yet), but two related thoughts...
1) Currently, the $30 plan sounds like the month-to-month that an iPad can have. If you were able to add this to an existing account, you may need to pay an activation fee.
2) Also, once this gets associated with a contract/account, you would be looking at a 2-yr minimum. If Tesla was to offer upgrades to 4G/LTE, you may need yo either wait for your current contract to end or pay an early termination fee.�
Mar 24, 2013
ModelS1079 I give Gtimbers an A-plus for effort and style as well. Content, dunno, but you got style, Kid. Hope that drive "somewhere" went well. And you have a point about the Tech Package Nav and connectivity charge being separate costs.�
Mar 25, 2013
kevincwelch
I'm using testmy.net.
It doesn't require flash.
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Mar 25, 2013
ElSupreme I am seeing a whole lot of this! I mean think about how much you pay for your cell/smart phone now. Mobile communications are EXPENSIVE in the USA.
This is EXACTLY what I expected. I mean look at ATT pricing for data. Why would they give Tesla a price break? I bet Tesla at least negotiated for 'unlimited' data.
And I fully expect for Tesla to keep your 'data' connected if you don't purchase the data agreement. That means your phone app will work, and you will get updates remotely. I don't expect google maps, or slacker, or the internet to work. I also hope that they have WiFi working by then. So I can just put my phone on the floor, on top of a NFC sticker under the carpet and my phone automagically turns on WiFi sharing.�
Mar 25, 2013
ckessel Yep, the problem is a car doesn't really fit the usage profile of any of those items. You use a phone, tablet, gaming item very frequently and for the ubiquitous always-with-you nature of the device. You only use the Tesla while you're driving it, barring rare occasions where you'd be browsing while parked at a supercharger or some such. The usage model just doesn't fit the pricing plans. And the usage profile is very restricted, basically Google Maps and streaming music.
I'm sure the plan on paper looks fine for $30/month, but when compared to how it's going to be used, that's expensive. Who'd spend $30/month for Google Maps?�
Mar 25, 2013
gtimbers Tesla NEEDS to keep Google maps operative regardless if we sign up for the added charge or not. They are OBLIGATED to meet their commitment for Nav and GPS for owners who paid for it up front. Web, Slacker, traffic data and all of the other 3G related services are certainly not Tesla's responsibility for free. That has been understood from the very beginning.�
Mar 25, 2013
scriptacus They really don't (unfortunately). The nav "works" without Google maps. In a no 3G situation you can enter an address, and the instrument cluster nav screen will come up and properly direct you to your destination. They are currently meeting their obligations in this regard.
That said, the nav in this situation sucks. No destination by name, no full screen map, no zooming in/out, no visual route overview.�
Mar 25, 2013
ElSupreme The same people who pay $15 a month to browse the internet on their iPad at a coffee shop that probably has free WiFi, and has a $30 a month data plan on their phone in their pocket at the same time.
I would contend that the Tesla would use MORE data than a tablet. I don't really stream music on my phone, I doubt many people do it on a tablet. And a daily constant streaming of music, and maps would be a good bit of data. Lets take Slacker for an instance. They stream 128kbps. Which ends up being a little under 1MB a minute of playing. Lets say you stream music on your commute say an hour a day for 20 days a month. You are at 1GB of data, with nothing but Slacker. So while the use is way different than a iPad, I would say the potential to use data in to the GB range is quite high. Certainly over the 250MB you get with a tablet.
And I pay $120 a month for two phones, unlimited text/calling, with 5GB and 2GB data plans (that get 'throttled' sometimes but still work for email after their caps) with tethering. I think that is expensive, so yes I think $30 a month for Google maps, and slacker radio, is expensive. I was NEVER planning on paying for monthly data. If it was sub $10 I probably still wouldn't.
No. They sold offline navigation, if you got the tech package, and it is what is displayed on your dash screen. It works without signal. So no they are NOT OBLIGATED to give you internet.�
Mar 25, 2013
mattjn Large screen aside, why would anyone pay the thousands for NAV then when my 300 dollar stand alone GPS will do the job better and I get lifetime updates included? I don't see the point of having the big screen if you can't use it for anything.�
Mar 25, 2013
fizzazle The "big screen" controls the whole car! Just b/c the google maps is gone doesn't mean you will stop using it!!! And I much prefer the navigation directions popping up in easy view on the gauge than almost every other car out there where you have to look at the screen in the center console!
Personally I think everyone is doing waaaaay too much bitching about this! If you don't want to spend $30/month....DON'T! I'm not going too!
Use Bluetooth streaming and player slacker, or tunein, or pandora, (or your own music library) from your phone.
As far as navigation...the Navigon is fine! It's turn by turn directions and (again) you have your phone to check traffic on google maps. Or use WAZE app which uses social crowding to give you the most up to date traffic info. (Actually better than googles traffic reporting if you would believe it!!!).
Also the tech package included loads of other stuff...not just the navi.
I hope they either allow tethering...or someone figures out how to hack it....since that would solve the problem for most people. If they announce tethering I think people would stop bitching (and then the "oh joy!!!" Posts will start!).�
Mar 25, 2013
mcornwell El Supreme, I believe those prices are for 4G/LTE, not the slow 3G we would be getting. Not all bandwidth is created equal. I pay more for a faster tier of cable modem service, even though it might have the same cap on the total amount I can download in a month.�
Mar 25, 2013
markb1 They've committed to software updates as long as you pay for service, though it's not clear they'll push this over 3G if you're not paying for connectivity. As for the mobile app, I don't see why they would allow you to use that if you don't pay for connectivity. That feature seems like a very likely candidate for the connectivity package.�
Mar 25, 2013
dsm363 You are supposed to be able to use the mobile app regardless of paying for the Internet access. The car has it anyway for Tesla's use so you'd just piggyback on their connection.�
Mar 25, 2013
Stoneymonster This, combined with more persistent caching of Google maps, would make me happy. If they switch to google's vector maps, it may make caching larger areas easier.�
Mar 25, 2013
markb1 Has Tesla said the mobile app will work without the connectivity package?�
Mar 25, 2013
AnOutsider Doesn't Google have offline maps on some devices (Android phones) now?�
Mar 25, 2013
Trnsl8r Don't think Tesla has said word one about the connectivity package...
- - - Updated - - -
... and to add my 2 cents, yeah $30 is excessive and a bad idea. I think around $10 would be the sweet spot where every customer would sign up and smile when they use their car. Maybe add a few bucks if the customer wants Slacker.
I was around when the tech package was announced and remember the rage back then. That has subsided. It's a one-time (big) fee that people can pay and then try to forget they paid (while enjoying a reverse view in HD). I think this is different. Here you will get a $30 monthly reminder to ask you again and again if you really like your google maps that much. It's going to wear thin real soon. I personally think TM is watching this thread closely and are (re-?)considering their options.
Considering they just now released the service options sign-up, also something that drew anger from the community, they should probably hold off a bit before hitting us with the connectivity package. Get some room between the blows, so to speak. (Unless they decide to release it at $10/month and give us some good news for a change. Hint hint...)�
Mar 25, 2013
gregincal I'm not going to pay for 3G either, but a disagree about the nav. The point is that I don't want turn by turn all the time. I want a map overview like every other nav system provides (I can't believe you actually suggested that somebody use their phone to check a map while driving). Basically Tesla will have the shittiest expensive nav system available. And my company provided phone plan doesn't allow tethering, so that's no help.�
Mar 25, 2013
Trnsl8r Anyone else starting to wonder if the $30 placeholder was "planted" there in the HTML for one of us to discover and stir up a discussion? Witty way to make market research...�
Mar 25, 2013
dflye There have been a number of folks claiming that the dash displayed navigation view is good enough to meet Tesla's obligations for navigation, to which is say, utter BS!
I've owned many handheld and auto GPS receivers over the years, and ALL of them have basic features that are NOT available through the horribly limited Navigon implementation Tesla has foisted upon us for high dollar.
1. Ability to display the region around the current position, whether a destination / route is planned or not
2. Ability to zoom map in / out at will
3. Ability to pan map left / right / up / down at will
4. Ability to display points of interest on the map, with controls to filter what specific categories are shown
There are many more features it is lacking, primarily due to the Navigon being bound to the left dashboard display, rather than also having output to the touchscreen, where it could be operated interactively just like ANY GPS receiver currently on the market!
While the google maps app on the touchscreen does support 1, 2 and 3, it doesn't support 4.
All of these features should be available on the touchscreen if the tech package navigation was purchased, whether there is a 3G signal or not!�
Mar 25, 2013
Robert.Boston Agreed -- for the tech package, if there's no 3G signal (either because you didn't buy 3G or you're out of range), there needs to be a fall-back displayed on the main screen built on the Navigon maps. This overhead view should be available regardless of whether one has a route active.
So, I agree with @dflye .. all those features should be available with the Tech Package regardless of 3G access.�
Mar 25, 2013
loganss Is there any cell provider that lets you pay less for older tech?
Seems like they just lower or raise your overall bandwidth limit.�
Mar 25, 2013
scriptacus I agree the current non-3G nav sucks but it is beside the point.
That's it... all the detail there is, and it has been provided. There's no fine print specifying features or stating that is must meet some perceived minimum standard.
Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that Tesla leaving the nav system "as is" is acceptable from a keeping customers happy standpoint. It wouldn't be in their interest as a company to do so. What I am saying is that they are not legally obligated to provide any more than they already have, as has been suggested here.
Tesla is not stupid... they're going to try to make people happy. But that can't happen overnight, and I guarantee you they will announce their 3G plan pricing before the nav system receives any sort of major overhaul. People should be prepared for that, with an understanding that there will be improvement as time goes on. Tesla, so far, has shown a commitment to the idea of an evolving car. Elon has already talked about ideas like taking topography into account in future nav updates. They've added creep mode. They've added charge timers. They'll get there.
I hope they'll make some commitments for future improvements before they announce pricing, but I'm not holding my breath.�
Mar 25, 2013
dflye Now that is the kind of useful and unique feature I'd expect from Tesla provided navigation! But hopefully they don't just update the route computation logic; that's just putting lipstick on a pig.�
Mar 25, 2013
gtimbers As dflye has kindly pointed out, Nav is not necessarily Nav. I realize that Tesla just said they would provide a Navigation system with the purchase of the Tech package, but who among us expected anything significantly different (read worse) than what is usual and customary? I don't believe a detailed listing of what the system could and couldn't do without a 3G connection was or is available and who in their right mind would expect it to do Nothing on the main screen and nothing if an address is not input. This is just not how Nav and GPS systems work. I doubt that you could even buy a system that is so limited if you try (other than the obvious). I strongly feel that Tesla does not have a clear leg to stand on in this regard in view of the system being so far out of the norm. They need to make the monthly charge reasonable (say $15) until such a time as they can make the system self sufficient without 3G. By self sufficient I mean work on the main screen (at least half of it), display continuously updated maps without a destination being input and have legible street names. All of this needs to be accomplished without 3G as 3G has too many dead spots. You wouldn't pay $50 for a 3" screen handheld that did less than that. Otherwise, Tesla should kick back a couple of grand to each of us who bought the Tech package to compensate for a grossly misrepresented Nav system and let us apply that money to the soon to be on going monthly charge.�
Mar 25, 2013
Robert.Boston My concern about the current state of the stand-alone nav software isn't about the "I don't want to pay" but rather "many places I go don't have usable cell coverage". We drive a lot in northern New England, and between thin population and mountains, there's no such thing as reliable cell coverage.
As some wag said (in relation to the climate control woes of the Model S), everything that needs improving in the Model S is because it was built by Californians. In this case, they clearly had trouble contemplating that not everywhere is saturated by cell coverage.�
Mar 25, 2013
SFOTurtle Please let the group know if you are going to drive up here in the Bay Area so I can stay off the roads when you're up here or at least be on the lookout for Teslas swerving around in and out of lanes. :wink:�
Mar 25, 2013
markb1 You know, California has mountains and thinly populated areas, too. And, in fact, we have areas without cell phone coverage, like large sections of Highway 1.�
Mar 25, 2013
Stoneymonster Hell, there are large sections of metropolitan areas that get little or no signal. I routinely have zero bars all over the place in
the Bay Area.�
Mar 25, 2013
jomo25 You know, that is an awful lot of money for a corp to just absorb. But then again, $2880 is alot for an individual to just absorb. You can think of it as being required t pay $2880 more for a nav system that one thought was already paid for.
I'm still not advocating it be free. Just in line with reasonable pricing. $10 per month? Fair. $30 per month? Robbery.�
Mar 26, 2013
fizzazle I'll actually be glad to be free of the 3G so I stop browsing the web while driving!!! Highly impressive to be able to have the web on the touchscreen but also plain stupid!
Its actually safer to use my phone (since I don't have to lean over to the right to use my phone!!!).�
Mar 27, 2013
ModelS1079 Love this car, so if I am whining it is my wallet whining, not me. But it is feeling under appreciated. My wallet has been working hard of late to support my Tesla.
We are beyond the early adopters, we the Faithful who would buy Elon a new house if the plumbing failed in his current home, and it is time to get this amazing car into the hands of as many as feasible. These costs are not trivial, and are eating up the cost savings an EV otherwise provides. We just lost a sale in California - great guy, stepping into an Audi 8, who felt peppered by significant additional costs as he designed his car and reviewed his agreement.
I can understand this:
I drive about 15,000 miles/year - bet you drive at least that as well.
That's 6 1/2 years to 100K miles.
Cost:
$2340 in 3G connectivity: $30/month putative 3G cost.
$6,300 in 100K Service Plan and Extended Service plan ($3800 plus $2500), that's $81/month.
Tech Package cost - okay, I won't add that but I did anticipate that would include 3G connectivity, without premium subscriptions. Nav requires it - not the Navgon dash component, but the touchscreen Maps does, and that is the cornerstone of the NAV function - I mean it is one of the very the first things everyone is blown away by when they get into the car.
That's $111/month for 6.5 years/100K miles; if you drop your extended service plans (make it $1900 only, 4 service updates over 50K miles or 3.3 years, with no warranty extension: 15K miles per year for 3.3 years or 50K miles), then you are at $1200 3G plus $1900 four service updates = $3100 = $78/month for 40 months/50K miles. Kind of eats into that gas savings.
I do not think it unreasonable that connectivity for Maps, Mobile App, non video web browsing (eats no data) be included, certainly with the tech package, ideally for all the cars. I disagree that this is anything more than a small incremental cost for Tesla. Yes it is a loss of significant revenue, but it is revenue they should not seek. This car is built for connectivity, and at the current cost, certainly when including the tech package and service with software support, it should be included. Really.�
Mar 27, 2013
gregincal My choice would be this:
Maps and app access - free (it's up to them whether they want to improve the map display to not require downloading data), but these are integral parts of the car interface (Maps certainly is with Tech, and I paid a lot for it).
Connectivity package - $15/month including slacker subscription (same price as XM radio), also gives you web browsing.�
Mar 27, 2013
Hank42
+1
The one thing EVERYONE who's sat in my car has been able to conclude is that no engine/transmission == no(less) maintenance. "So you mean I don't have to change the oil?"
Those costs might be amplified in their minds, but as Models1079 pointed out, it's really hard to have to tell them that those costs will be replaced by more expensive costs for seemingly trivial functionality. Sure the maps are cool, but not *THAT* much cooler when you have to pay a monthly fee that is NOT insignificant.
$12.95 for XM [optional]
$30(+?) for 3G
$xx for service plan that covers what exactly? (vs. Warranty)
And which of the above(2) do I _need_ to get software updates which are crucial for the car. If I don't get 3g, or the service plan, will I get the software updates to deliver on the features that were promised(missing)???�
Mar 27, 2013
islandbayy Sorry if I am going off topic,
Www.Ting.com
$6/month starting cost $29.99 for mobile hotspot device.
You can start off at no plan. they have tired data. So if you use data below first terr, that's the additional you pay. under tier 2 you pay teer 2. etc.... once you hit 4 gigs in a month cost is around a penny per meg.
if you don't use any data in a month all you have paid is $6�
Mar 27, 2013
SFOTurtle +1. Well said.�
Mar 27, 2013
jomo25 I echo SFO's request to file a drive itinerary with us so we can stay clear of the roads when you swerve through the greater Phoenix metro area.�
Mar 27, 2013
kinddog exactly.�
Mar 27, 2013
Todd Burch For those thinking of skipping the connectivity plan, remember the voice recognition is all done over the net via Google Voice. So you'd lose that too.
For the record I agree $30/month is too much for 3G.�
Mar 27, 2013
shokunin If they upgraded this to 4G/LTE at $30 a month would that be more reasonable? For 3G I agree, it sucks.
This only applies to those who opted for the tech package..
I only ask because it's not our fault they decided to not provide any OFFLINE maps like everyone else does. When you tell some one a car has navigation, they are going to presume (rightly or wrongly) a guided map overview with turn by turn directions or the ability to zoom in or out if you get lost. Remember a lot of us took deliveries and ordered the car without all the micro-details.
Google maps has this capability to download all map / street data within a certain distance on Android. Can't see why they could not add this feature and use wifi to download the data. I can download nearly all of Los Angeles, Orange, and parts of San Bernardino counties on an android tablet.
For my usage, I could get rid of slacker radio, all I really want is the google maps with traffic data. I guess I could live without the traffic data, but seems silly to pay $360 a year for onscreen maps that should've been included.�
Mar 27, 2013
SUPRKAR The voice recognition in the MS is horrible, controls very little and does so poorly. Slacker does not play any song requested. I have had a couple of close calls attempting to find the song requested from a list. Use the voice dial feature and again having to look at the screen to select the correct number, work cell etc. how about concentrating on getting the features promised working at least as well as a rental Hyundai Sonata. How about, call john work, voice confirmation from MS then initiate dialing. what happened to the panoramic roof shade, lighted sun visors, lower cost for maintenance, center opportunity console, delivery wherever it makes you smile and much more. I was expecting much more in the way of interior technology in this car. I assumed it would have it, now I know what the, when you assume saying feels like. Also I was under the impression the vehicle was driven quite a bit prior to the final release and start of production. I do not recall seeing any information about full battery charging not being good for battery life. I would also nave appreciated knowing the 300 mile battery would not go 300 miles, again thinking after all the beta testing Tesla would know how far the car would go in real life. I expect bull from GM Ford and the like but I expected more from Tesla. The car is fast and fun to drive but when the novelty wears off you I will have an electric car without the bells and whistles. I am sure I will now be yelled at but I am just expressing how I feel, somewhat disappointed�
Mar 27, 2013
dsm363 Did you read any reviews about the car or see the EPA rating before you bought it? They've said for well over a year that the 300 miles was at 55mph and that the EPA rating was 265 miles. The voice recognition on my car at least works fairly well. It doesn't control much at this point but that should be corrected with future updates. They posted this almost a year ago
Model S Efficiency and Range | Blog | Tesla Motors�
Mar 27, 2013
vfx Except there is the navgon. Which I think should fill the full screen if wanted.�
Mar 27, 2013
bonnie They never said that the 3G service would be free. It's a bit disingenuous to claim that you thought the nav system was already paid for, when we all were waiting on the 3G pricing to be announced.
When you say 'robbery', are you referring to Tesla or to the wireless service providers? The fee seems to be in line with what AT&T charges most of us.
- - - Updated - - -
And to be fair, NO one knows that $30/month is the fee. This is all speculation. It may be right, or, people may be getting worked up over nothing.�
Mar 27, 2013
vfx And tires. In the Roadster, tires nearly equal fuel savings. I blame myself though.�
Mar 27, 2013
bonnie As you should. And I blame myself for my tire situation. Tesla shouldn't make their cars so fun to drive. But lord, it's fun.�
Mar 27, 2013
SUPRKAR Then when it was posted a year ago why was the configuration page not updated? That is where I took my information. It states that now but not then. And you are right updates could change many things, but will I still be alive by then. Like I mentioned where is communication on pano shade, sun visors, opportunity console to name a few. Not a word since promised. So why would I expect any change to the functions we now have, and the navigation on the large screen is a waste. Google maps that can not point in the direction of travel. Come on�
Mar 27, 2013
jpasqua I realize that this $30/month for 3G discussion is purely speculative at this point, but here are my thoughts.
First, when I was looking at the car I was told that the details of the cellular service hadn't been finalized but that owners would be able to pay for service or tether their existing phone if they had that service available. I was given no details on price and no information on 3G vs 4G/LTE.
I pay $15/month for Verizon LTE on my iPad. The service is ridiculously fast and 2GB would be fine for my use in the car. I would be very happy with this same pricing and the option for a higher cap for more $.
To state the obvious, $30/month for 3G is not a good deal. At those rates I would definitely use a 4G hotspot (assuming the car supports wifi). Not only is it cheaper and faster, but it would also allow passengers to "piggyback" on one plan. In that case I might leave a couple of wifi-only tablets in the car for use by passengers. I know these choices aren't right for everyone - I'm just sharing what I would do. Frankly, that's what I'd love to see directly from Tesla: 4G, $15/month for 2GB, wifi hotspot capability for 4 other devices.
Finally, I bought the tech package and expected to have a fully functional nav system with or without a cellular data connection. By fully functional I mean at least as good as a handheld Garmin or TomTom. Of course in buying a Tesla, I thought it would be better than that.
<digression>Tesla is not going to get everything "right" at once, nor do they need to in order to be successful. It is very often the case that products which represent disruptive innovation often lag behind traditional products in some metrics while blowing them away in others. (See "Innovator's Dilemma" by Christensen). Look at the original iPhone. It was incredible and changed the way people thought about phones, but the first version didn't have cut&paste or native apps. This doesn't mean I won't encourage, prod, and cajole Tesla to keep making everything better. It just means that I'm not surprised that they didn't get everything right in the first go-around.</digression>
Here's hoping that when Tesla does announce their current plans and roadmap, we'll be pleasantly surprised.�
Mar 27, 2013
AnOutsider Anyone have an idea how much data the average S gobbles up? I wonder if Tesla monitored usage for the first few months, then went to the carriers asking for a plan to fit the usage levels they observed.�
Mar 27, 2013
jomo25 Please. No where did I say it should be free. Even in the text you quote, I noted $10/mo is fair. And sorry, navigation, full functioning navigation that is, shouldn't need to rely on 3G that needs to be paid for separately. But sure, I'd be willing to pay the $10/month to help the nav be what it should be.
Robbery from both. I'll say it again. Tesla isn't paying $30/month per car. I'd love to see proof that they are. And only then, I'd say fire the Procurement team.
Of course, I would happily use a Hotspot instead of having the car hooked up directly at ANY price. I already have multiple devices on my plan that can function as a hotspot. So, I wouldn't cre about this thread at all if I could use a hotspot. Oh right, I can't cuz WiFi, which WAS promised doesn't yet exist. Simple firmware update you say? That would be great. But even implementing very simple updates like scheduled charging took quite the while and 4.3 wasn't released without issues. Tesla hasn't been inspiring much confidence in their firmware stability. So I worry it might be a while (if ever) before we see WiFi. I pray for it, cuz then, I can let other people pay whatever per month for the 3G and not worry.�
Mar 27, 2013
ModelS1079 I am concerned about additional costs, but I am not bitter. Nine months and four days ago, Tesla VIN P0001 left the factory. To say they are not blowing away all expectations is, well - aren't they? Charge timing took 100 days from the first non-sig delivery. I can wait for a parcel shelf and - mark my words - Tesla wil address all your concerns above, while you are still living. I do disagree with many here who say we should assume connectivity for Maps will cost more despite buying the tech package, and I think it a great idea to include current connectivity in the tech package and/or service plan. But in regards to Tesla meeting my expectations? Breathless. Four years ago today the US Loan, Panasonic, Daimler and Toyota as well as a factory in Freemont were all but hopes in the head of a millionaire borrowing cash and a place to crash from a friend. I can wait for the next voice recognition upgrade.
And I hope Tesla pulls an industry-disrupting shocker and provides connectivity with all it's cars. Blow the competition back to the 20th Century. Imagine if they provided free chargng at Supercharge stations too? Imagine...�
Mar 27, 2013
hcsharp It's good to have that settled. Now I can blame Bonnie and Eric for my tire problems as well. :biggrin:�
Mar 27, 2013
jomo25 I think they are doing a great job overall. Let me be clear on that. If you knew all I have had to go through and am still going through to get this car, it would be obvious I feel that way. (But you don't so, you'll just have to trust me on it.) You dont need to preach to me. Heck, I just threw them another $750 for full mat set and extra J1772 adapter for a car they havent even started building for me yet.
That said, I'm not going to give them a pass on everything. $21 shipping for a small adapter? Outrageous. And if $30/mo for 3G is what they ask? Ridiculous. And those jagged pills just amplify other shortcomings like the firmware issues/delays.�
Mar 27, 2013
ModelS1079 No preaching meant. You have entirely valid points. And I agree with many. Just not throwing the car out with the bad 3G plan, and I see now you are not either. When is delivery?�
Mar 27, 2013
jomo25 Sorry, the preach comment was one of those that didn't translate well through the internet as I read it again. No offense/accusation intended. It was meant in the friendly "preach to choir" expression tone...
No official delivery window yet. Last I talked to my IDS 4/22 was his estimate of when it would be ready off the line. He asked me to call him tomorrow or Friday and he might have a more definite estimate. I really hoped/thought and feel I was led to believe it would be by end of March. I think it was, until the reaction to the Q4 results, Elon's guarantee, and the resulting resequencing of orders to prioritize 85s. And yes, this "perceived delay" has also amplified the smaller shortcomings in my mind.�
Mar 28, 2013
ModelS1079 Hey it's almost on its way. Beats my 3.5 year wait
The shortcomings and 3G unsettled issue will be well-cushioned with the G Forces soon to follow.�
Mar 28, 2013
NigelM I hadn't looked at the Tesla forums in a while, but here's a reminder of what they are saying re tethering:
�
Mar 28, 2013
jomo25 I'm hotter for the opposite. I just want the MS to be WiFi capable so it can connect through my iPhone. Then I wouldn't need to pay for the direct network connectivity from the MS. Of course it remains to be seen if the iPhone app functions will work if the MS doesn't have such direct network connectivity itself.�
Mar 28, 2013
shady yes, I wonder if they meant it the other way round? I get why someone might want to tether a tablet to the Model S, but a Smart phone would have it's own data plan which most likely would be much superior anyway.
so I'm guessing it's just a terminology thing�
Mar 29, 2013
gregincal I'm sure they mean using the cell phone plan. If you look around the web it's very common to see sites that refer to tethering your phone to your laptop.�
Mar 29, 2013
jomo25 Not sure if I understand your comment. My read of the Tesla-attributed statement a few posts back is to allow you to connect WiFi devices to your Model S to share its connectivity, not the other way around as I'd prefer. The reason I say that is because why would a plan be needed to enable what I want? There use of plan is a 'subscription plan', not a 'design plan'. I shouldn't need a subscription plan of any kind for my MS for it to share my phone's data connection. I would just need WiFi in the MS.
Bt to allow what they seem to be saying, then the car would need to allow connections via Bluetooth or WiFi. If its WiFi, then I should be able to tether through the phone. Just wonder how long that will take to do given firmware issues current and past.�
Mar 29, 2013
gregincal I really doubt they will allow connecting wifi devices to the Model S to share it's connectivity (why would anybody want to do that with a smartphone?). They almost certainly will be doing it the other way around. They didn't actually say it was part of the plan, it was just part of the progress they had made in designing them (i.e. figuring out whether to allow connectivity without purchasing a plan).�
Mar 29, 2013
SuperCoug If I could tether wifi devices to the Model S then that would be great for two reasons:
1) There are LOTS of other types of wifi devices out there that are not smartphones. I have 2 wifi-only iPads in my household that my kids would LOVE to connect to the data connections on the Model S.
2) I don't want to have to activate the tethering option on my iPhone because AT&T charges quite a bit more money for tethering and I'd have to give up my unlimited data plan with AT&T (I'm Grandfathered in from the original iPhone but that goes away with ANY changes to my plan).�
Mar 29, 2013
jomo25 We'll have to agree to disagree then. Cuz, as SuperCoug says, there are reasons why people would want to tether TO and THROUGH the MS data plan. Just not me. I think it's pretty clear what the Tesla comment means. But as I said, if they are envisioning a data plan tier that enables the MS to be a WiFi hotspot, then it implies WiFi is working, which means I'll be able to do what I would prefer to do.�
Mar 30, 2013
fizzazle
Cancel your orders from them. I got the full Matt set from Lloyd's Matt's for $175!!! (They are the luxury ones and are fantastic!!!).
The $575 you save can go towards your 3G service!
Seriously ...I do want tesla to succeed...but you can't bitch and moan about being nickeled and dimed to death and then also throw them tons of dough on items you can get elsewhere (of similar or better quality) for much cheaper.
You may not have a choice with the 3G service...but you do with the floor Matt's!!!! As a paying customer you are sending very mixed message. (On 1 hand you are bitching about having to pay for 3G service while other hand you are paying $750 for floor Matt's as if that's a reasonable price.....). In my opinion you got it 100% backwards. The Matt's SHOULD come with the car and shouldn't be an added expense (as is with any other luxury manufacturer). 3G service SHOULD be a charge as it is a service and in this world of spectrum and data becoming more and more valuable it is ridiculous to think that Tesla should give it out for free!!!
I KNOW EVERYONE IS A LITTLE FIRED UP ABOUT THIS TOPIC....BUT AM I WRONG IN WHAT I AM SAYING?!?!?�
Mar 30, 2013
jomo25 First of all, it is not 750 for the mats. That includes a J1772 adapter. So the difference would only play for about 13 months of 3G service. Second, as I noted in the mats thread, I cannot deal with the reported chemical smell of the ones that come from Lloyd. I have no place to air them out as I live in a high-rise condo. With 2 kids under 3, and my own sensitivity to smell, I'll pay a premium to avoid that. Sure I agree that the mats should come with the car. But it was clear to me that they didnt when I ordered. And once again, I never said the 3G service should be free.
It's all about perceived value. And each person will have their own sense of the value. No where do I say what people should or shouldn't pay, since I know everyone has different values. I perceive extra value from getting the official mats for reasons noted above. I dont perceive that the 3G pricing rumored is valuable, esp since I don't need it as I have plenty of tetherable bandwidth already in my mobile plans.�
Mar 30, 2013
Stoneymonster Well said Jomo25. It's all about perceived value. One other thing which may sound weird: buying floor mats from Tesla probably does a lot more for their bottom line than the 3G service which only helps ATT. I'm more than happy to give Tesla some profit on items of perceived value to me because I want them to do well. The 3G just seems like a transfer payment to a company I hate for little bang for the buck. And my perceived value may differ from others! That's what makes a market economy.�
Mar 30, 2013
Shock The weak link here for me is att. When I park my car at night (when I could be downloading updates) I have absolutely no service. I need the car to connect to my home wifi while parked. And quite frankly, if I could connect to my homw wifi, then it could connect to a portable mifi device - giving me 'real' 4G (LTE) as I drive down the road. My maps might actually keep up with me as I drive and my slacker might not skip and pause while it struggles to buffer. I know folks are talking about tethering to the car, but I need the car to tether to wifi via my home or portable 4G. The carrier they chose is a poor one for me, and I live in one of the 5 largest cities in America. Not being an att 'hater' but for me where I live and work the service is not as good as their competitors. I know that they all have strengths and weaknesses in their various service areas.�
Mar 30, 2013
spleen To be fair to the Lloyd's mats, the smell is only with the all weather mats. The carpet mats (the Ultimats) had no smell whatsoever.
Sorry to take the thread off topic, please carry on.�
Apr 1, 2013
derekt75 Personally, I'm not going to pay $30/month for AT&T 3G.
As long as Tesla allows the car to connect through my phone and through my home router, I'm not going to be upset about it.
In fact, I imagine that's why Tesla hasn't announced anything, yet. They haven't been able to work on the connectivity stuff because they've been busy trying to work on the vampire load / clean wake up stuff. and until they can offer a connectivity option that isn't $30/month through AT&T, they know that they can't charge us without us getting pissy.
My iPhone is AT&T, but I might switch over to Verizon once they allow tethering. As it is, the Google maps view is typically about half empty as it can't update fast enough while I'm driving. I live in San Jose (10th biggest city in the country, and part of Silicon Valley), so there's really no excuse for poor coverage.�
Apr 1, 2013
gregincal Obviously we'll see. My reasoning for believing what I believe is that while there are reasons for tethering other things to use the Model S data plan, I can't see any reason to want to tether your smart phone in that fashion, only the other way around. And the quote in question only mentions smart phone tethering (if it was the way you believe I would think they would have said wi-fi enabled devices or something, not smart phones). Anyway, it will be what it will be, I'm happy to wait for the final announcement before making an conclusions about whether the announced plan makes sense or not.�
Apr 1, 2013
gsxrex Out of curiosity, I looked up the Mercedes mbrace system. $280/year, plus $28/month to get all the bells and whistles including in car internet yadda yadda yadda. Basically, you are buying your car a phone line (looks like it has a concierge service as part of the plan). That's over $51/month. Mercedes smartly doesn't say what class of service the dataplan is (3G/4G/LTE/telepathy).
Regardless, the per device model that the wireless carriers won't let go of is such a huge cash cow. :cursing:�
Apr 1, 2013
ElSupreme Exactly. My phone can provide WiFi hotspot, or accept standard WiFi or connect to a WiFi hotspot. I see no reason why the Tesla will be any different. I fully expect it to do all of the above.�
Apr 2, 2013
brianman As much as I love and ... um, "trust" Tess ... I don't want her to have telepathy.�
Apr 4, 2013
Robert.Boston I recall reading a reliable source saying that the Model S definitely would not serve as a WiFi hotspot, but only that it could connect through WiFi (eventually). If so, I'm leaning towards tethering. The only challenge there is that my carrier charges a tethering fee per device, so I'd have to pay a double fee for my wife's phone and mine (or she can do without -- she hates the distract-factor of the center console).�
Apr 4, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla Isn't there one problem with switching to Verizon? If you get on a phone call with your iPhone, your data pipe will seize up till the call is done, no?!
I guess 4G LTE is going to evolve to support simultaneous voice and data in the next couple of years. And, surely, newer iPhones and definitely, other current phones such as Galaxy S3 will/do support this via separate radios and such.�
Apr 4, 2013
jomo25 Right.with 4GLTE, this is no longer a Verizon network limit as much as a device limit. All the GS3 onward can support both simultaneously. The iPhone5 cannot becasue it would need add'l radio they opted to not include. I suspect the 5s onwards will support it.
�
Apr 5, 2013
yobigd20 Verizon does allow tethering. And it's free. It turns my iPhone5 into a wifi hotspot. Since September last year, I've been using it every single day on a train to tether to my laptop so I can get 4G LTE on the laptop. I intentionally switched from AT&T to Verizon specifically because Verizon does not charge a monthly fee for tethering whereas AT&T was charging an extra $15 or $25/month.�
Apr 5, 2013
Stoneymonster Tesla should meet or beat this: http://arstechnica.com/business/2013/04/t-mobile-audi-drop-price-of-in-car-wi-fi-to-15month-over-30-months/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+arstechnica%2Findex+%28Ars+Technica+-+All+content%29
Competition is a good thing.�
Apr 7, 2013
William3 Agreed.�
May 31, 2013
brianstorms Joining in here late, sorry about that, but I am curious --- what was the final decision regarding 3G in the Model S?
I can't find anywhere on the Tesla Motors site any mention of these hidden/gotcha fees.�
May 31, 2013
markb1 There wasn't one. Tesla still has not announced connectivity pricing.�
May 31, 2013
brianstorms Mystery solved then! Thanks�
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