Oct 22, 2015
S'toon I live in the Supercharger black hole. According to the Supercharger map Tesla doesn't even have any plans to build any Superchargers here. The nearest Supercharger is 541 km/340 miles away from me...in the wrong direction. It's not a matter of "nice to have" longer range for me, it's a must have for me.�
Oct 22, 2015
bigbear The other part of this is less charging time. The more miles I can get into my battery, the less time I have to charge saving me even more money. I'll be more than happy with a 300 mile range. I'd only have to charge once a week, if that.�
Oct 22, 2015
vinnie97 With my hybrid, I *might* stop for 15 minutes on interstate trips (I'm constantly finding myself in time shortages, generally speaking, not that I'm a masochist); the shorter the better. 30 is too much when I'm trying to make hay while the sun shines.
The fellow who remarked about winter climes also has a point. An extra cushion for range-killing temperatures and winds is crucial up north.�
Oct 22, 2015
Candleflame oh man... model 3 built in CHINA??? ....:cursing:�
Oct 22, 2015
ratsbew On a long road trip in my ICE I will certainly do 400+ miles without stopping. My goal is to get from point A to B and stopping doesn't get me there. I think an acceptable range would be 400 at 70mph with 30 minutes for an extra 300 miles.�
Oct 22, 2015
S'toon My bladder doesn't last 400+ miles.
I don't think you're going to get 400 miles at 70mph for many years yet. Maybe 10 years.�
Oct 22, 2015
TslaIsFuture I want to make a trip non stop, and every 20-30min spent waiting for a charge is technically time wasted. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few. I guarantee most EV owners will want the convenience of traveling anywhere they so chose without the need to "locate the nearest supercharger, potentially drive out of their way to reach it, waste 20-30min every 200-300miles in the summer and as low as 100-200 miles in winter/very cold climates". This means range has to be increased dramatically.
I think the sweet spot for exponential adoption will be 350-400miles real world driving. That would give customers in the coldest of climates enough range to make it to the nearest supercharger. The extrinsic costs associated with time spent charging is greatly diminished as the range of the vehicles increase. This will also allow the future Tesla Truck to be cost effective and range effective especially for hauling heavy loads. Just my 2cents�
Oct 22, 2015
ProphetM Just because it's irrelevant to you doesn't mean it is to everyone. If I were to count on my hands the number of times range >300 miles has been useful in the last 3 years, I would need more hands.
Whether the benefit is slight or not depends on your driving pattern. The advantage of an ICE is not just total distance before refueling, it's also the ubiquity of the refueling network. As an ICE road tripper I don't usually plan a route that takes me through refueling spots and then decide where to eat based on where I need to get gas - that's backwards. I stop because I want to eat (or stretch, or whatever). I can decide where I want to eat first, with little regard to what gas station I will need to use, because gas stations are everywhere. Superchargers are not yet numerous enough to enable this pattern, so although the stop time can be similar, the choice of where to stop and what to do there is more limited than in an ICE. Out in the real world I do actually tend to plan fuel stops on road trips sometimes because of pricing considerations, so it's not going to be a huge adjustment for me to reverse my thinking. But that mental shift is going to be more difficult for at least some portion of car buyers. It may be mostly in their heads but that doesn't mean it won't influence their decision on whether to ditch their ICE. The argument about being able to fill up quickly and get back on the road is used because it's simple and quick, but the better argument is about choice, which is harder to put into words. Greater range more capably addresses the same problem as building out the supercharger network does - fears about the road-tripper's lack of choice, not their lack of ability to get where they're going.
If I'm headed to my sister's house in central California from Las Vegas, there are superchargers to help me get there with no problem, and it wouldn't take significantly more time than it does now with an ICE. But I have to stop where the superchargers are. Although I drive through Mojave and stopping there would be fine, I can't charge up while I get lunch at Stoken Donuts, because that's not where the supercharger is. On the way home through Barstow I can't charge up while I eat dinner at Idle Spurs, because the supercharger is miles away. More range and more superchargers will work together to ensure that my preferred choices are as available to me as they are to ICE drivers, without the double hit of stopping to eat and also stopping to charge.
I'll be getting a Model 3 as soon as I possibly can, but I will be getting a long-range version if it's offered. And although I would be able to deal with a range under 300 miles, not every argument against it must be considered specious.�
Oct 22, 2015
dhanson865 Supercharger blackhole? Arkansas? No? Oh Saskatoon.
Tesla doesn't even have any plans to build any Superchargers here by end of 2016.
Model 3 is a 2018 thing. By the time you can get a non signature model 3 we have 2017 and part of 2018 to add more superchargers wherever you are.
But yeah even if they add superchargers on Canada 1 or Canada 16 in Saskatchewan you might have to wait until 2018 or 2019 for one to be "close" to you.
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Not all model 3 built in China.
I think by 2020 There will be US built, EU built, and China built Model 3s.
Elon is looking forward to when it will no longer make sense to ship Tesla's over seas on container ships. (other than to get them to Africa or Australia).�
Oct 22, 2015
ryanjm Apologies, but where in that Google translation did it mention the 3 having greater range than the S or X?�
Oct 22, 2015
vinnie97 ProphetM, I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the expatiation of my position.
�
Oct 23, 2015
nwdiver My point is that there is usually a pretty significant disconnect between what's perceived as useful and what's actually useful. When I got my Tesla and sold my Jetta to a friend I actually got him to agree to the stipulation that I retained the ability to borrow the car for longer trips. Guess how many times I activated that provision :wink:
Sometimes you have to live with an EV as your primary car for a few months before you really appreciate how much range you don't need. There have been a few occasions but that will be fixed by more fast chargers.�
Oct 23, 2015
tga There are far too many people who think "250 is not enough," and won't buy without a significantly larger range (400, maybe even 500). Are many of them wasting money buying more battery than they need for 99% of their driving? Probably.
But you need to accept that some people just can't be educated on this; they're just too stuck in their ways. It's easier to give them an (unnecessarily large) battery, if that's what it takes to get them to accept an EV.�
Oct 23, 2015
nwdiver Bit of a paradox since most of those people will probably have ~$35k to spend on a 200 mile M3 but not $50k to spend on a 400 mile M3...
We need a 'live with a Tesla for a month' program so that more people can discover for themselves how much range they don't need.�
Oct 23, 2015
gregincal But I do want to be able to take it on road trips, even if it is just a few times a year. The range I want is the amount I need to drive until I want to stop and stop and take a break. The current Model S isn't quite long enough, but 350 EPA would be great.�
Oct 23, 2015
Lonnie123 300 mile Model 3, sure... Just not immediately.
The interesting thing with Teslas, and EV's in general, is that because the batteries keep getting better the range will keep increasing for possibly decades and will end up making ICE cars look silly (assuming some other form of transportation doesnt come along and negate the need for them, a la Hyperloop). Obviously we are nowhere near that yet, but it will eventually be there. Huge kWh packs combined with rapid charging tech or battery swaps that makes sense�
Oct 23, 2015
ItsNotAboutTheMoney No. Well, potentially you _could_ have a huge battery, but there's an issue of weight, size and cost-effectiveness.
Assuming $100/kWh with the same charging speed, and 50% better volumetric and gravimetric densities of an S battery, how many kWh would you want? (Could be a poll ...)
Remember that more battery is more weight, which adds cost not just in electricity but in supporting components.
And the battery size affects minimum vehicle size and cargo space.�
Oct 23, 2015
Kevin Harney I disagree. The biggest battery available will be sold first and the smaller ones will follow shortly thereafter.�
Oct 23, 2015
BriansTesla I believe that Tesla will make improvements in aerodynamics, weight, efficiency in the inverter, motor and HVAC and in many other areas so 300mi range is very likely.�
Oct 23, 2015
Mad Hungarian If the base version has a 200 - 250 mile real world range as has been proclaimed on multiple occasions, then any usefully bigger battery option will get you close to (or maybe past) 300 miles. For max range on the highway weight won't be a huge factor, aerodynamics will. If they can reduce the frontal area by 20% compared to the Model S then they will already get a very significant advantage (even if the drag coefficient does creep up slightly due to the taller profile the smaller car will need). And that's not including any other tech tricks they cook up in the meantime.�
Oct 23, 2015
MassModel3 Bear in mind that a supercharger currently will add roughly 50% charge to a battery in 20 minutes. The rest of the charge takes more than twice that long due to tapering. A larger battery (400 miles) means that a SC stop can add 200 miles to your battery in 20 minutes and that would accommodate the quick stop and maximum recharge. With smaller batteries, you'd have to sit longer (maybe lots longer) to get that 200 miles added to the battery. Point is that even if you can't or wouldn't drive 400 miles straight, a 400 mile battery will seriously improve your long distance commute times even if you do stop to charge frequently.
As I understand it, the Model S's going to Europe are not fully assembled prior to shipment. The parts all get shipped, but they go to a European factory for final assembly. This is a way of saving on import taxes. I would think the China factory would be the same thing, simply performing final assembly locally. Have no fear -- there's no way you're going to be buying a Model 3 that was built in China.
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Didn't JB Straubel say the Model 3 will have 300 miles when he recently spoke in Nevada (a couple weeks ago)? Maybe I'm hallucinating (again), but I think he did.�
Oct 23, 2015
tga Not necessarily. If the battery is too big, then the limiting factor becomes the capacity of the SC. If the battery is big enough to take the full output (without taper) for 20 minutes, you'll get 135 kW / (60/20) = 45kWh max.
Let's assume the 3 has the same wh/mile as the S. In that case, a 400 mile car would have an 85*(400/265) kWh, or 128kWh. In 20 minutes of charging, the most you could get is (45/128)%, or 35%, or 140 miles. But a 200kWh battery won't charge any faster - you're still capped at 45kWh/140 miles in 20 min on a 135kW SC.
I did have that initial panic - no way I would buy a 3 made in China. But building cars in their local market makes sense.�
Oct 23, 2015
Lonnie123 I wasnt clear, when I wrote "huge kWh packs" I meant that the kWh number would be huge, not the physical size of the pack. Meaning that due to efficiency, new chemistry, etc... they will be able to cram more kWh into the same size pack, and in 10 years that could be quite significant. In 20 years it will likely double with a massive increase in infrastructure support, and at that point you start making ICEs the ones that look impractical�
Oct 26, 2015
MiamiNole Just catching up on this thread, but had to reply with the obligatory "must always stay prepared for the zombie apocalypse!". I bet he also makes his own ammo as well.
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Okay, I still haven't gotten to the end of the new posts on this thread, but wanted to go ahead and give my input. I could very well see a market for 400+ mile range EVs. As you may be able to guess from my user name, I'm from Miami and went to school at Florida State. The drive from Miami to Tallahassee is about 500 miles. The ONLY reason I needed to stop during these trips was to fill up my tank. Otherwise, the goal was to get to my destination as quickly as possible. However, now that I have a wife and kid, the least common denominator for having to stop is when one of THEM need to stop for a restroom break/diaper change/etc. But otherwise, the longer the range of the vehicle, the better it would be for me in those situations.
That being said, a long range (400+ miles) EV would be HUGE amongst the college-aged market. That is the market which definitely makes frequent long ranged trips. Usually cost of getting home is the constraint for kids away from school to make more trips home. Most college kids don't have families/people that need to make frequent stops while driving. Once the price of long range EVs gets low enough that college kids start considering the cost benefits of purchasing one vs. being able to take more trips home, then I can definitely see a need for even bigger batteries than we have now. I never even considered the thought of college kids driving Model 3s, but now that I sit here and think about it, that definitely is a huge market for them. Thoughts?�
Oct 26, 2015
gregincal There's always a use for everything. The question is the increased usefulness versus the increased cost. Even if it were possible, making the Model 3 that long range would increase the cost to a point where it wouldn't make sense. This is probably the best case to be made for battery swapping. A car that has a 200 mile range normally, but you can swap the battery for a 500 mile battery near home when you want to make a road trip.�
Oct 26, 2015
favo I would like to see 350 miles of real-world (75 mph cruising with AC on) range. This would allow for faster supercharging, some flexibility on when and where to charge, and only one or two stops required, even on long driving days in the winter. In a blizzard or temps below 0 deg. F, it would be worse, but still acceptable. If they can make a Performance version with this size battery and costing around $60K, I will be very happy. Alternatively, if they are able to cut charging times in half, 250 miles would probably work. Stopping for 30-45 minutes every 200 miles would be somewhat annoying.�
Oct 26, 2015
TslaIsFuture We have to remember that yes this is true currently, but as time progresses, so will technology, scaling, basic economics.
That $50k 20inch flatscreen plasma tv when it was first introduced.....is now $2k for 75in and is LED. This will be the same with batteries. The price will continue to drop and we will be paying a fraction for a 500mile/charge battery than what current MS owners paid for 250miles/charge.�
Oct 26, 2015
Lonnie123 Are you expecting this to be the release car? Seems quite wishful to me.
- The current highest mileage car gets an estimated 285 miles of range (90D, 270 listed + "6%" per the description of the range upgrade). These numbers get worse with AC on and at 75mph ( something like 230 based on Teslas range estimator)
- to get THAT car to 350 (NOT at 75mph) would be a 22% increase(50% at 75mph), the model 3 will be a smaller car which will necessitate a smaller pack. Elon has stated a 5-10% increase every 2-3 years on the last conference call, lets be realistic and say 5% every 2 years like clock work, that will take at least 6-8 years to get to 350 on the largest pack they offer, which likely wont even fit on the model 3. at 75mph with the AC on your are talking 15-20 years I think.
I really hope the 3 is amazing and blows everyone away (I'm a small investor and will be a day one Model 3 reservation), but getting a range 150% over their current marketing speak ("200 miles of real world range") is very, very unlikely at launch and for the foreseeable future.�
Oct 27, 2015
MacroP Agreed. I always find it is less worrisome if you always aim a little lower and potentially be pleasantly surprised - as opposed to aiming a little high only to be bitterly disappointed with the outcome.�
Oct 27, 2015
favo Am I expecting 350 miles? No. Am I hoping for it? Yes. I will, however, be shocked if they don't release Model 3 with (at least) two battery options.
Even though Model 3 will have less space for a battery, it will also weigh less and have a smaller frontal area, and possibly a better Cd. Better CdA will mean better range from any given battery capacity. Plus, Model 3 should benefit from the new cells with improved chemistry and density that the Gigafactory will produce.
Will all this overcome the space for a battery being smaller than Model S? I don't know.�
Oct 27, 2015
stopcrazypp The most efficient EV (the i3) gets 81 miles EPA out of 18.7kWh usable (pack is actually 22kWh). That is 231Wh/mi, so 350 mi EPA will take 81 kWh usable. Given 270 EPA translates to 249 at 75mph for the S85D, that means 350 mi at 75mph will need 88kWh usable capacity, which is probably going to be a 95-100kwh pack. That's unlikely to fit in a smaller space.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/driving-range-model-s-family�
Oct 27, 2015
favo Well, if they manage to squeeze an 8% average annual increase in energy density out of the new batteries from the Gigafactory that will be about 47% better over the roughly five years between Model S with 85 kWh battery in 2012 and the Model 3 in 2017. If Model 3 has 80% of the battery pack area and the same height, it could come with a 100 kWh (85 * 0.8 * 1.47) pack. If they only manage 4% per year, that yields 83 kWh. 2% yields 75 kWh.�
Oct 28, 2015
MacroP Yet in 3 years for the Model S they have gone from a 85kWh battery to a 90kWh battery. Doesn't look too promising thus far.�
Oct 28, 2015
Lonnie123 Where are you getting 8% / year? Elon quotes 5-10% every 2-3 years... And that's Elon, who has been known to be rather optimistic on his time frames. So realistically lets call it 5% every 3 years, and hope they get occasional bursts of an extra 1-3% every few fews.�
Oct 28, 2015
favo Elon recently said 5% average per year. Then said 5-10% every 1-2 years.
Ludicrous Mode Press Conference
JB Straubel has also said doubling capacity every 10 years, which would be an average of 7.2% annually.
2014 Energy Storage Symposium
Improvements will likely come in fits and starts every few years. I'm guessing they will have their largest jump (for Tesla so far) when the Gigafactory comes on line. They have a lot of smart people working on it, probably with even greater effort over the next 1-2 years.
ETA: Elon did say 8-9% back in 2012, which is what I remembered.
Here's a nice summary of various Tesla statements on batteries over at the Tesla Motors forums.�
Oct 28, 2015
vinnie97 OT but..."LED" = same ole' LCD with backlit LEDs, blech. OLED with its emissive properties giving unbeatable contrast is the future...I like that LG is leading the charge on that front and in battery development as well (with their wise partnership with Tesla). At the rate they're going with all the dev they're doing for GM, they'll soon have the capability of releasing their own EV.�
Oct 30, 2015
Sasmania While of course a 300 mile battery would be nice....I don't see how this is going to matter much in 2017 by the time the 3 comes out. The SuperCharger Network is already robust enough to travel in most areas, but by 2017 if it keeps growing anywhere near the pace it's been, I can't imagine road trips will even be a challenge then...�
Oct 30, 2015
S'toon The nearest supercharger to here is over 300 miles away, and Tesla has no plans to put any closer for the foreseeable future.�
Oct 30, 2015
Colsla Probably because of low population of SK and they didn't think that the ROI will be high enough for them to sell the Model S .. but eventually they will. Hopefully within the next 5 years before the gigafactory will be fully operational�
Dec 11, 2015
jscholl What college kid can afford a new $35k car but can't afford gas or grabbing a bite to eat every once in a while?�
Dec 11, 2015
tga I'd simplify that to "What college kid can afford a new $35k car"�
Dec 11, 2015
bigbear This 40 year old man can't afford a $35k car.�
Dec 11, 2015
jscholl When I was walking through the dorm parking lot this morning I saw a Porsche Cayman S, so apparently some can.�
Dec 11, 2015
dhanson865 This 40s man bought what was a $30,000 2012 SL Leaf with all the options used for $8995 in spring 2015.
I fully expect to be able to buy a Tesla, its just a matter of will I buy new, CPO, or used private sale and how old would the CPO or used be.
It doesn't take much to reach down into a lower segment of buyers once you get past first or second year depreciation.�
Dec 11, 2015
jscholl No offense, but if you can't afford a $35k car, why do you have a thread where you count down every day until the unveiling of a $35k car? You do you tho�
Dec 11, 2015
bigbear Not being able to afford and getting something are two different things.�
Dec 12, 2015
malcolm Anyhoo.....300 miles.
It's interesting to consider the promised Roadster 3.0. Cd allegedly dropping from 0.36 to 0.31, Crr from 11kg/ton to 8.9 IIRC and the benefit of new cell chemistry (53kWh to 70).
Whether this really will up the range from 240 EPA to 400 (350?) remains to be independently verified, as will the effect of the Crr change on the car's handling.
My guess is we'll see a Model 3 200/240 mile Base with a D Performance option/version first and then a Hypermile option/version. Maybe the latter will be launched 18 months later?�
Dec 13, 2015
bwa I'd be happy if everyone already driving 55mph on the interstate today were doing so tomorrow in a Tesla.
Doesn't change my stance on either issues: my general opinion of whether people should buy Teslas in specific and EVs in general (yes on both accounts, to save the humans), and my general opinion of those who clog the left lane going too slow.
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Seems reasonable. My commute to work is 60 minutes and from work is 1.5-2 hours, so that would about do it. If the mountains don't make any difference, that is. But almost all my coworkers live 1.5-2.5 hours (one way) away, so they'd have to charge at work or have a 300 mile range or so. Only one really old guy got a house in San Francisco back when it was cheap and only comes about 40 miles and 40 miles back per day (that's what, Leaf range?)�
Dec 13, 2015
bwa Wow. The Chinese->English translator at Google is spectacular (compared to Mexican->English).�
Dec 13, 2015
Tedkidd Yep! Sooner they sell new, sooner they'll be selling some used ones...�
Dec 13, 2015
bwa Challenge taken!
Over half my coworkers live in central valley, north bay, east bay, San Benito/Monterey, etc.. Let's find a calculator that uses Tesla miles:
Using EV Trip Planner
with speed multiplier 1.2, cabin temp 74F and outside temp 50F:
Hollister -> Palo Alto 63 miles 22.2kWh 79RM (rated miles) 353Wh/mile, then return trip
63 miles 23.2 kWh 83RM 370Wh/mile, for a total of 162RM.
Salinas -> Palo Alto 103RM + back 103RM = 206RM.
Watsonville -> Palo Alto 71RM. Wait, it says net elev change 0ft. Let me check something: Watsonville -> Summit Rd & Old Summit Rd in Santa Cruz is 48RM, net change 1761 feet. There to PA is 23RM. Total is 71RM. Ok then. Back again is 46RM+25RM. Total is 142RM.
Here come some more typical routes:
Modesto -> Palo Alto 119RM + 124RM back = 243RM.
Stockton -> Palo Alto 104RM+111RM=215RM.
Benecia -> Palo Alto 90RM+87RM=177RM.
Sacramento -> Palo Alto 155RM (one person does this, but stays the week, so I assume they can charge locally at night).
So, by my calculation, the only people who will be screwed with the Model 3 that only has 200RM are the people from Stockton, Modesto, Salinas, Los Banos and Monterey, so only 40% of my coworkers. Everyone else would be just fine with 100% SOC and no additional errands making it before 0% on a brand new battery, as long as the temperature doesn't fall much more (see below).
OTOH if it were a 250RM battery, literally every one of my coworkers would be in the same situation they are today with range if they got that EV, unless they wanted to do any type of errands to and from work more than a few miles (I'd say only a third of my coworkers have children to ferry around in today's bus-adverse era).
I just checked Monterey->Palo Alto and the RT is 235RM. I'm the only one that goes and sees someone that far away sometimes, and even that would work fine in a 250RM car (as long as my hotel has charging; if not, then it would be 278RM -- but that would mean the night before I stop at a SC about 3 miles off my route for a while so that the RT home from work the next day would fit in 250RM range -- I do that about weekly).
Los Banos was the last place everyone started moving that works around here before the housing bubble burst, and even that is 124RM for a total of 248RM RT, leaving 2RM to get home (assuming 100% SOC and no detours) on a 250RM battery.
So, the way I see it, 250RM (rated miles) is practical for most modern day workers who can't afford a $3M house where the jobs are at (most people). But, 200RM is well below what at least a third of the people actually need, and increasingly more people, especially if you factor in any headroom, SOC other than 100%, discharge to other than 0%, errands to pick up kids, get food, see wife/GF/Costco/whatever people do.
This all changes if plugging in at work becomes feasible within the next 15 months. Right now, there's no infrastructure to do so, for the types of people I'm talking about, period.
Uhm, I put 33F for temp and Los Banos became 267RM, so those people wouldn't be able to work, unless they ALL used the Gilroy SC EVERY DAY AT THE SAME TIME. Tesla could make good money selling the fights on PPV. "Another action packed evening tonight at the Gilroy SC! Expect knives and fists tonight! Hammers and saws too!"
200RM looks like the richer third of folk, 250RM for the middle of the road or more communal folk, and 300RM for the poorest of folk are the numbers we're looking for to bust into the ICE market for anybody I know.
P.S., in my ICE I always have my seat heater on until the cabin gets to 78F; I heard the new Tesla FW doesn't even properly heat the car. I'm not even sure I'd appreciate driving it if that were true.�
Dec 13, 2015
Sasmania While having a battery with more range is of course great, range anxiety and road trip limitations are currently going away MUCH faster due to the rapidly expanding SuperCharger network, not battery improvements. So assuming the Model 3 gets SuperCharger access, by the time it comes out 98% of the population will be able to go anywhere they need even if battery range doesn't improve one bit.
Also, using the SC network and going 75 or 85 MPH will get you there much faster than going 55 to stretch out your range, even after taking a 30 minute break to charge, eat, etc. In fact to go 300 miles at 55MPH would take you almost 5.5 hours. Going 75 WITH a full hour break (but you only need 30 min probably) will take you 5.�
Dec 13, 2015
bwa These are all fantastic points for going camping, to see relatives, go to a concert, or other type of vacation, but don't cut it for daily commuting and errands issues.�
Dec 13, 2015
Sasmania While there are exceptions, I'm not sure how many people commute more than 200-250 miles a day? The issue is the batteries are the most expensive part of the car. They could build a Model S today with a 500 mile range, but it would be crazy expensive, weigh too much, performance would suffer, and so on. This will be even harder to pull off with a 35K car. All to satisfy 5% of the market or 5% of the use cases?
I'm not saying I wouldn't love 300 or 400 miles of range. Hell yea I would. But I'm pretty sure Tesla understands the balance of performance/cost/market better than any of us�
Dec 14, 2015
coco81 I agree, but mexican is not a language
Sorry for the off topic.�
Dec 14, 2015
coco81 I'm reading you and I can't imagine a daily commuting of more than 200 miles! I live in Spain and I know this is a very different country but... it's really impresive. Here more than 150kms (90 miles) for daily commuting is "extreme". Most people only do less than 50-60 kms each day (30-40 miles).
For me, 150kms of range everyday is OK, but one or two times every week I have to travel 350-600kms (200-350 miles) so I will buy the biggest battery option available. For the vast majority of people I think the basic 200 mile range model 3 will be the best option.�
Dec 14, 2015
MiamiNole I guess you missed the part where I said "Once the price of long range EVs gets low enough". And I'm speaking from the experience of having to make multiple trips between Miami and Tallahassee. If I would have had access to free supercharging while I was in college, you better believe I would have made even MORE trips home. Heck, I probably would have an unending list of friends lining up to pay to bum a ride since it would be cheaper than driving themselves. A college kid with a Tesla and free supercharger access could potentially make quite a bit of side money, heh.�
Dec 14, 2015
Lloyd I did not know that Mexican was a language!�
Dec 14, 2015
bigbear Just became one recently�
Dec 14, 2015
ecarfan Interesting. What is your source for stating that the Roadster 3.0 package of upgrades (or at least the promised but so far available aero modifications) will decrease the CD to 0.31?
(Mods please move this post to the Roadster 3.0 thread)�
Dec 14, 2015
Twiglett Its a bit like "american" is a language
But that is the same as the whole EVSE/Charger thing :biggrin:�
Dec 15, 2015
malcolm Here.
People have been speculating about a 70kWh battery for Model 3, so it's interesting to see that figure proposed for the Roadster upgrade. This will even fit the existing ESS pack volume rather than encroach on more of the Roadster's tiny trunk space. Tesla's own tests show around 350 miles for a single charge for the Roadster 3
Obviously the Roadster is much lighter, carries less payload and reducing the Cd from 0.36 to 0.31 is presumably much less of a challenge than the alleged sub-0.2 target for Model 3.
I'm not sure about 300+ miles for the 3. Would be fantastic, but may only be possible with fairly dramatic aero modifications.�
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