Sep 21, 2011
zack This caused a failure in my car's switchpack, which caused a non-start condition. It's NOT covered under warranty (so far). This repair will cost me thousands. In the Tesla "engineering blog" there is an instruction not to ever plug an AC inverter into the Tesla, but there, as far as I know, is no such warning in the user manual. I informed Tesla that I was hoping I could convince them to defeat the 5 minute limit for the DC power jack after the car's turned off, and told them that the purpose was to continue power devices inside the car such as chargers and cameras, and that that time I was not warned about using an inverter. Naturally, I'm pretty steamed about this. I've now been told that "everyday" use (whatever the &^%$* that means) of chargers and other devices will not harm the car, but sine wave inverters are not allowable.
The problem is that the inverter I used produces spikes in voltage (as much as 19V) that corrupt electronics in the car. There is apparently insufficient filtering on the DC power socket. I asked whether anything else might cause damage, since almost all power supplies these days are switchers, and was given an answer that did not sound very reassuring: "It shouldn't." What about "won't"? I'd like to get a list of approved devices from Tesla. I just called them and told them so. This is infuriating. Basically, they're so much as telling me "Don't use the 12VDC socket. It's not for customer use."�
Sep 21, 2011
cinergi That almost sounds illegal to me (IANAL)...�
Sep 21, 2011
doug Umm... yeah... that sounds like a design oversight. Where is this engineering blog? If this is a known issue it should be in the manual or on your warranty agreement.�
Sep 21, 2011
Doug_G They can't argue that it is an inappropriate use for the connector if there is no warning in the manual. Everyone uses inverters in their cars. It's a normal and expected use for the connector. Why else would it be there?
So tell them without a clear warning in the user manual they can't retroactively tell you that you can't use an inverter. It is therefore their fault.
If they still refuse, tell them your lawyer will be in touch.
If that doesn't do it, then go to your lawyer and have him/her write them a letter. It won't cost much, but that WILL get their attention. It would be incredibly stupid for them to go to court.
Last resort - hopefully in your jurisdiction it would qualify for small claims court.�
Sep 21, 2011
bonnie Bottom line is that unless a company supplies a list of what IS allowed (and says nothing else without their okay in writing), or is clear about what is not allowed, then they can't disclaim the expected.
This is why even sunshades say 'remove before driving', steam irons are labeled 'do not wear clothes while steaming', and hair dryers advise 'do not use while bathing'. Risk management. If you can't design out the problem, then (assuming not a safety issue) you at least need to tell the user about it. And there should be a label on the plug telling you NOT to plug in any unapproved device. The manual isn't enough. And an engineering blog is definitely not enough.�
Sep 21, 2011
TEG How big an inverter was plugged in? The 2010 Owner's manual seems to say
�
Sep 21, 2011
strider Hmm. Poking through my 2.5 manuals.... There's nothing in the Owner's manual about inverters in the section on the Accessory socket. It simply lists max power draw. However, in the Warranty Guide, in the section "What is not covered" it states, "Misuse of the vehicle, such as driving over curbs, overloading, or using the vehicle as a stationary power source". I wonder if they'll claim that the use of an inverter is using the vehicle as a power source? But what if you're using the inverter while driving?
So yeah, I don't see any prohibitions listed in a location that an owner can be reasonably expected to read (ie: documents that came with the car). I don't think they have a leg to stand on. If the accessory was drawing too much power it should have popped a breaker, fuse, whatever and diagnosing/fixing THAT I could understand being charged for. But if they allowed an accessory to wreck whole systems in the car that sounds like a clear design flaw to me.�
Sep 21, 2011
efxjim If you have an item that needs the accessory socket to be left on (IE. phone charger). After you turn off the car, turn on the parking lights. It keeps the main 12v power on continuously. The lights do not draw a lot of power. The down side is your parking lights are left on. There is also a small amount of 12v power that is always on available on the OBD port. I'm not sure how much current can be pulled off this source. I am running a charger for my in car tablet and power for a mobile hot spot (est. <3 amps)from there. The car will charge with the parking lights on.�
Sep 21, 2011
TEG Related old thread with a somewhat relevant quote:
12 volt accessories?
�
Sep 21, 2011
vfx I have found that my 12V accessory socket stays hot now. When the key was pulled, my Magellan GPS used to go to battery after five min and later it would die, even when plugged in. Now I leave the car all day in a parking lot 10+ hours and the GPS is still on. Maybe a firmware changed along the way this in my 1.5�
Sep 21, 2011
doug "You just got TEGed"??�
Sep 21, 2011
TEG Zack, really sorry to hear that your car needs repair...
Also unfortunate that it appears to be touchy as to what you can plug into it.�
Sep 21, 2011
zack I haven't had anything plugged into the inverter for weeks. I used it on a recent road trip to charge some small cameras and two iPhones. It is a model that has its own battery and it charges up that battery from the car, and when the car's 12v socket turns off it kicks in kind of like a UPS (but it isn't smooth) and continues supplying 110VAC. They're going to find an inverter that works for me that doesn't cause the spikes in voltage. The tricky thing is, there aren't many inverters I've found that have their own battery back-up. Ideally it would be a true sine-wave inverter.
In my last conversation with them I explained that I did them a big favor by discovering this problem. If they released the Model S with this same issue, it would be devastating to have a bunch of cars die out there. Very bad for business, if you ask me. I was told this is the first time they've seen the problem. I manufacture electronics myself, and my US-made products carry a lifetime warranty. I'm always studying the stuff that breaks on my products and trying to improve them. I hope they come to their senses about the warranty thing.�
Sep 21, 2011
zack That's weird! Mine still dies and it has the latest update, but it's a 2.5. I'd report that to Tesla. Any unexpected change might be an indication of corruption.�
Sep 21, 2011
zack Wow, that's interesting stuff to know. OBD port... hmm. Is this the correct pinout?
�
Sep 21, 2011
zack Just a little warning to anyone who is using tricks to get the DC power jack (or the OBD port) to supply power when the car is turned off, if you drain down the backup power source you can cause a lot of damage to the car and it won't be covered by your warranty. They warned me about this when I asked about installing an alarm system and that's why I purchased the pseudo-UPS inverter with its own battery pack to supply power when the car is off.�
Sep 22, 2011
zack The engineering blog is apparently only accessible internally at Tesla. I agree it should be in the manual AND on the warranty agreement. It should have been emailed to all owners the moment it was discovered.�
Sep 22, 2011
scott451 Sounds like the battery is fully charges and/or the battery is above 30C�
Sep 22, 2011
scott451 If they don't, make sure they give you the defective switchpack. You're entitled, by law, to the "defective" parts.�
Sep 22, 2011
zack Scott, you're brilliant.�
Sep 22, 2011
bonnie Game - set - match.�
Sep 22, 2011
vfx So Roadster owners who got a new battery pack should have asked for the old ones?�
Sep 22, 2011
tennis_trs Looks like maybe Scott's wording meant the owner would be able to get the defective part if not covered by the warranty. That makes more sense, since the owner owns the old pack and is paying for the new pack if not under warranty. But under warranty, since Tesla is paying, I'd think they'd get to keep the old pack once they replaced it with another pack. I'd think that whenever Telsa replaced a battery out of warranty they'd probably offer the owner enough money for the old battery that most owners would accept.�
Sep 22, 2011
scott451 No. You are entitled to the defective parts if it is an "out-of-warranty" repair. This may give Zach some leverage.�
Sep 22, 2011
donauker I would expect all components of any significance, especially their proprietary items, will have a very high "core value".�
Sep 22, 2011
zack I wrote to Tesla and demanded the part if it's not going to be covered under warranty. Then I wrote to them again and INSISTED that they repair it outside of warranty and send me the part. The last letter I received from Tesla, although I'm not yet going to discuss it's contents, has got me so riled that I'm... well, I'm actually not going to say that either. Grr. All I can say is this: They'd better get this resolved and get my car back to me on Monday.
I saved them a GIANT hassle by revealing this obvious design flaw. Now they can come up with a fix to protect other Roadster owners from the same fate. If the Model S has this problem as well, I discovered it before they went into production and they'll be able to protect the sensitive circuitry from noise generated by accessories plugged into the 12VDC socket. They should be thanking me, not #&*!ing with me.�
Sep 22, 2011
bonnie Not to mention that a large number of Roadster owners and future Model S owners are watching to see how this will resolve...�
Sep 22, 2011
doug Honestly, without explicit notification before hand, it should just be covered by the warranty.�
Sep 22, 2011
vfx Rather than a fix they could just send a note to every owner to not do this.�
Sep 22, 2011
zack If I don't get a resolution in the next few hours, I'm going to publish the email exchange that has me so bent out of shape.�
Sep 22, 2011
zack Apparently they'd prefer to have me do that here.�
Sep 22, 2011
vfx And what about the next owner? And the next?�
Sep 22, 2011
Ardie I'm sure that any problem that might end up as a Vehicle Recall would up on a lawyer's desk, and that practically guarantees a delay, a denial, a runaround, vague threats, and either a resolution or (more likely) stony silence.
I imagine if this problem is as potentially disasterous as Zack seems to think it is, Tesla is already hard at work either:
a) engineering a reasonably low-cost solution, or
b) drafting an addendum to the owner's manual stating "don't to that," or
c) planning to remove 12v cigarette lighter sockets from their cars, or
d) hoping it is too rare an occurrence and the problem will go away.
If drawing 12v power from a 12v socket is such a horrible thing to do, and if Tesla decides to do *nothing*, then maybe someone here brighter than me (which is almost everybody) could design a device that will filter the power signal to prevent any kind of bad feedback, and, while there car is not running, to limit the current drain to <xx> milliamps, and to limit the duration of such a drain to <yy> minutes, and slap that sucker on the power cable heading to the cigarette lighter socket. Voila. Sort of.
But, I do hope that Tesla will instead see this board for the gold mine of user experiences that it is, and use these "opportunities" to improve their product.
-- Ardie�
Sep 22, 2011
bonnie My guess is that the issue has already been escalated (if they have any sense at all) & the initial emails Zack received might not be the position that Tesla takes once common sense prevails.
I also assume that they have read/are reading this thread and are taking note of the responses and sentiment of current owners and reservation holders.�
Sep 22, 2011
efxjim The Tesla OBD port is different from the one shown. W.Petefish found the prewired connector.
"Go to FORD get the pigtail for the connector. Ford Part# 3U2Z-14S411-PLA. It costs $44, but it already has the wires crimped and installed in the connector."
I removed all the wires except for the two power wires.�
Sep 22, 2011
jaanton Maybe they need a zener diode to shunt these spikes... Can you tell us the make of that inverter? I have used an inverter but just once with a cell phone AC charger. Trivial power levels. But makes me think of putting my inverters under a scope and trying some tests (not with my car but another dc source). 19v spikes are too high. Maybe a 14.5v zener. Maybe also a forward rectifier to prevent current from going back into the car from the socket.�
Sep 22, 2011
Dragon zack, seems like you're experiencing the "Tesla experience" like I did.
Hopefully it will end well. If the person you are communicating with gets unreasonable you should go a level higher, maybe write directly to Elon Musk.�
Sep 22, 2011
shark2k I was thinking this also bonnie. Hopefully Tesla does the right thing in this situation. Good luck with everything zack.
-Shark2k�
Sep 22, 2011
JRP3 Zack, if you are potentially considering legal action I would hold off sharing any emails until you speak to a lawyer. I'm not one, so take my advice for what it is, but it might be in your best interest to not disclose information that would be potentially damaging to Tesla, it might give you some leverage.�
Sep 22, 2011
JRP3 I would add that as a Tesla share owner I'm not happy with the actions of the company in this case so far.�
Sep 22, 2011
zack So far I got an apology for "upsetting" me. No word on whether they'll charge me for the part. They may waive the ranger mileage fee. The Roadster should be heading back Monday. They researched a few inverters for me and none were noise-free enough for them to recommend. That's interesting, right? I asked them to find me one that they can approve.�
Sep 22, 2011
JRP3 Frankly I think a decent AC inverter should be built into an EV, certainly EV's at the level of Tesla's products. Instead of bothering with 12VDC to 120VAC they could be pack voltage to 120VAC. I can buy one for my car for around $450, obviously Tesla could build one in for much less.�
Sep 22, 2011
bonnie Escalated. It's good to see a little common sense applied. I'm feeling optimistic that they'll do the right thing.�
Sep 22, 2011
ckessel We have some sort of adapter you plug into the 12V supply, to which the kids plug in their laptop and watch a DVD while we drive a couple hours south to visit family. Is Tesla saying this type of usage is prohibited?�
Sep 22, 2011
JRP3 If it's a low voltage DC to DC power supply it's probably not an issue.�
Sep 22, 2011
TEG I think it is primarily AC inverters that are the item of concern.
Things with 120V sockets like these:
�
Sep 22, 2011
zack If it has a 110vac outlet on it, it's an inverter and could cause problems. Ask tesla is my advice.�
Sep 22, 2011
ckessel That must be it since the laptop runs on a normal wall socket power supply normally. I won't exactly say it's a show stopper if the Model S socket can't handle this, but we've become awfully spoiled by having the kids able to plug in their laptop while we drive. Given the Model S would be our family car, that's not an insignificant feature.�
Sep 22, 2011
Doug_G Hopefully the Model S 12V inverter with be (a) more robust, (b) not tied so directly into other systems, and most importantly (c) heavily filtered.�
Sep 22, 2011
TEG You can probably get a car adapter for the laptop that doesn't have to go through 120VAC.
Still, at this point, probably best to check with Tesla about anything you want to plug into that socket.�
Sep 22, 2011
Doug_G I really wonder how that would work. Surely they can't tell you for sure that any random device they've probably never seen before is safe to use.�
Sep 22, 2011
TEG I have no idea what they might say... "For iPhone chargers only?"
Maybe they have categories of devices they know are OK?�
Sep 23, 2011
zack You know, I'd buy an inverter from Tesla for my Roadster if they'd make one, and although they'd have to charge a premium, perhaps 3-5 times as much as a typical true sine-wave inverter, it'd be worth it knowing I could safely take off from a charge site in the morning. I live to drive my Roadster. I just need a little more AC while I'm on the longer hauls.�
Sep 24, 2011
dpeilow Something that may be related...
On the End to End trip I plugged my phone (a Samsung Galaxy S) into the car. I saw weird stuff like at one point it thought it was plugged into a PC and activated USB transfer mode. It also affected signal reception severely, even when unplugged afterwards. It only seemed to recover after I upgraded to Android 2.3!
Whatever is going on in there, it must be a very noisy 12V line and I'd suggest that the filtering isn't adequate in either direction.�
Sep 24, 2011
W.Petefish Noisy is understatement of the year. Just listen to the AM band of the radio. You can hear the PWM of the motor through the stereo.
My suggestion: put a line noise filter on the line coming out of the DC-DC converter that is in the battery, and put a second one before the radio and a third before the 12v socket.�
Sep 24, 2011
Doug_G And use a filter that has significant iron (ferrite) in it, not some cheapo surge protector that won't do anything.�
Sep 24, 2011
GSP You could buy iPads for your kids. I'm sure they would be OK with that solution! And, you still get your Model S.
GSP�
Sep 24, 2011
vfx Originally Posted by vfx
I have found that my 12V accessory socket stays hot now. When the key was pulled, my Magellan GPS used to go to battery after five min and later it would die, even when plugged in. Now I leave the car all day in a parking lot 10+ hours and the GPS is still on. Maybe a firmware changed along the way this in my 1.5
[Scott]
"Sounds like the battery is fully charges and/or the battery is above 30C"
Tried a test. My 1.5 Roadster (no 12V battery onboard) is supplying power to my 12V cigarette lighter socket with the car off and key removed. The plug-in GPS internal battery only lasts 10 minutes.
I shut off the car, removed the key, unplugged the GPS. and put it in it's battery mode. Waited 10 minutes and watched it die. Then plugged it in the still-off car and it lit up. The car was still 12V hot beyond the old 5 minute time. As I said above the GPS will be plugged in and on after a full day without the car plugged in.
Temp was about 88 degrees outside.�
Sep 24, 2011
zack I hope all of you are keeping Tesla up to date with your electrical issues.�
Sep 24, 2011
tomsax
As much as I think Tesla should be held accountable for how they treat each and every one of their customers, I agree with JPR3 that it would be prudent to hold off publishing your communications with Tesla until this is resolved. As gratifying as it would be to show the world what you're going through, and I'm very interested to see the email, it's unlikely to help resolve your problem.
If you decide you need a lawyer, I can recommend one. He was a big help; we probably wouldn't have our Roadster without him. Let's just say I have some very interesting emails from Tesla during that particular interaction.�
Sep 24, 2011
NigelM I'm not taking any side but wouldn't it be the case that the inverter manufacturer should have liability if their product damaged your car?�
Sep 24, 2011
tomsax These inverters are designed to run off of a standard 12V car battery. I don't see how they are liable for Tesla's implementation of simulating a standard 12V supply.�
Sep 24, 2011
tomsax On a possibly related subject, we have a 12V air compressor for inflating our tires. I've been hesitant to plug that into the Roadster's 12V socket, knowing there's not a giant 12V battery in there. In view of this story, I'm even more wary of that. In other cars, we've had it blow the fuse. We now have an air compressor that plugs into the wall.
Has anyone tried using an air compressor from the Roadster's 12V socket?�
Sep 24, 2011
Doug_G Yes, I have a small 12V compressor intended for inflating car tires. I've used it many times with no problems whatsoever.
No electronics in the thing; it's just a little (audibly) noisy DC motor.�
Sep 24, 2011
ggr Yes, I've used the one that came with my Mercedes a couple of times, no problem. (The parking position of the Roadster vis-a-vis the bicycles makes it more convenient to use the roadster...)�
Sep 25, 2011
AndrewBissell I have also used a 12V battery powered vacuum cleaner. I am now concerned whether I should do that again.�
Sep 25, 2011
JRP3 If it didn't cause any problems before it shouldn't in the future. I can't imagine any issues from a straight DC device as long as it is within the ratings of the socket.�
Sep 25, 2011
S-2000 Roadster Hey, Zack, what is the amperage rating on that AC inverter that you used? Also, how much current were you pulling from it at 120 V AC when things went bad?
Edit: You might as well mention the model number of the AC inverter so the rest of us know to stay away from that one specifically (if not all inverters). Sorry you had to be the guinea pig, but I seem to recall that I already knew not to plug an inverter in...�
Sep 25, 2011
zack Sigh. Here's the scary thing. I used that inverter for months, off and on. I purchased it a while before I used it on a camping trip and left it plugged in most of the time (although it would occasionally get unplugged by itself and I'd discover that sometime later and plug it back in). At the time that the car failed, it was plugged in but the power switch was turned off and I hadn't been using it for a few weeks. I didn't like the sound of the fan running all the time.
It's not like I plugged it in and it caused the failure. It's the kind of thing where I have to accept their claim that it produces this noise that's intolerable (and voltage spikes up to 19V). I asked them to find another inverter that wouldn't produce damaging noise. They tried some that were locally available and none were satisfactory. I asked them if they tried using my inverter with a regular battery to see if perhaps the Tesla itself was causing the noise and spikes in reaction to the inverter, and I haven't heard back on that yet.
I honestly don't believe that they understand what's going on. If they did, they'd have something in the circuit to minimize noise from these types of devices. It's an 90W inverter that runs on its own battery. I don't know if it can produce 90W unless its own battery is charged up fully. There's a 12VDC jack on it for an external charger and the manual says that jack draws less than 2 amps. That makes me wonder just how much current the cigarette lighter connection draws. Obviously to get 90W out of the thing you'd need to put more than 90W into it, or else the battery inside has to be charged in order to get it to produce 90 watts. I purchased the unit at Radio Shack and nothing in the manual suggests in any way, shape, or form that it would cause noise, draw more than 125W, or more than 10 amps. For my purpose (charging small cameras and cell phones) it was perfect. I doubt I ever drew more than 10 or 20 watts total at any time. The fuse never blew. There were no other strange symptoms (unexplained ones) that occurred prior to the car suddenly refusing to start after a charge.
My personal belief: I don't think Tesla has any idea what caused the failure and they're blaming it on the inverter because it generates noise and alleged voltage spikes, but the sad fact is, all switching supplies (modern dc/dc converters included) produce noise... so if noisy devices are going to cause problems in unpredictable ways after months of use, we're all in some pretty deep doo-doo if we choose to use that socket at all.
The model is Radio Shack 22-137 Enercell. The specs are available via pdf at the radioshack.com site. My model might be a slightly earlier one (I don't remember it having 3 leds) but it has fundamentally the same specs. There is no spec listed for the current it draws from the 12VDC lighter socket in the car. Which is also annoying.
Sigh again.�
Sep 26, 2011
scott451 I believe that a number of owners have had switch pack problems. I believe it is one of the top failures. My 1.5 had the classic failures of bad PEM fan and bad switch pack within the first 4 months of ownership. After that, it was problem free...
Did you tell Tesla you were using an inverter? or did they analyze the switch pack failure and discover that voltage spikes caused the failure of the SP, prompting them to ask if you were using an inverter?�
Sep 26, 2011
zack The inverter was plugged into the 12VDC socket and its power switch was in the off position when I released it to them. They claim that even in the off position the unit generated noise on the 12VDC.�
Sep 26, 2011
TEG Link to said product:
Enercell 90W Portable AC Power Inverter : Power Inverters | RadioShack.com
http://www.radioshack.com/graphics/uc/rsk/Support/ProductManuals/2200137_PM_EN.pdf
I wonder what "one cycle" means...�
Sep 26, 2011
zack 1/60 of one second.
I received word this morning (Tesla people never sleep) that it will be covered under warranty under the strict condition that I never, ever connect any type of inverter to my 12VDC "lighter" outlet again. Included in the email was a highly specific comment about things you plug into the lighter outlet. Strictly speaking, DC-to-DC converters that fall within the wattage guidelines work just fine. They don't seem to produce the damaging noise that inverters do. So just to be clear, Tesla's position (as far as I understand at this point) is this: You may plug in any device whose output is pure DC as long as it doesn't exceed the limit of 125W or whatever the exact specification is at any given moment. Which means phone chargers and camera chargers and other DC/DC whatnots are just fine. However, if you plug in a device that has an AC outlet on it (namely an inverter), you risk damaging the switchpack. As of this moment, switchpacks cost $777 plus installation. I have no idea where Tesla came up with that particular number but it's certainly easy to remember as you hold an inverter in your hands and wonder whether or not to plug it in to your 12VDC socket.
I'm going to venture a guess that I am the last person who will ever get away with warranty coverage of inverter-related switchpack damage. An addendum is being drafted for the manual, as I understand. Be forewarned.
I'd like to say something. The person who contacted me from Tesla to tell me all of this in the middle of the night is one of the most interesting and inspiring people I've ever met. Aside from Elon himself, this man may be Tesla's greatest asset.�
Sep 26, 2011
VolkerP Hi zack,
nice to hear how things resolve. Now a good time to relieve the face color in the thread title?�
Sep 26, 2011
zack Good call. 8^D All's well that ends well.�
Sep 26, 2011
bonnie Very glad to hear of this resolution. Good for you for sticking with it, good for Tesla for being willing to rethink their position.�
Sep 26, 2011
JRP3 But bad for Tesla using a system in a $110K+ vehicle that can't function as well as those in econoboxes.�
Sep 26, 2011
zack I tried to edit it to a light bulb but I'm having no luck. 8^(�
Sep 26, 2011
PopSmith Report your own post (click the exclamation mark in the lower left corner of the first post) and write a message about it there. It will alert the Moderators and one of them can fix it.�
Sep 26, 2011
Nik Pleased to hear the good news. Does the above comment bear warrant some further explanation (hint: yes!), perhaps in another thread?�
Sep 26, 2011
NigelM I was thinking the same; it's always good to give a shout-out if someone has gone over and above expectations.�
Sep 26, 2011
Lloyd Note that Via Motors (producing a Pickup PHEV 2013 deliveries) come standard with an inverter intended to power a work site.�
Sep 26, 2011
TEG Funny that you should mention them:
Bob Lutz Adds Via Motors to His Brand Advisory Portfolio - NYTimes.com�
Sep 26, 2011
zack I'll say that I met him at the factory tour I went to earlier this year. He's someone that Elon personally recruited and he's a real gem of a guy.�
Sep 26, 2011
zack More good news. I got an acknowledgement from the Chicago service department that there was a misinterpretation of a previous email (sent from service when I began inquiries about trying to keep power going in the Tesla 24 hours). I received a very thoughtful apology specifically addressing what was bugging me, replacing the "sorry we upset you" apology and acknowledging that I did not connect anything improperly to the car (within the guidelines of the manual, although the manual update is coming soon). This I really appreciate. I have a pet peeve about being accused of doing something improperly when I've gone way out of my way to research what's feasible and safe. It could be said that I made a mistake in not calling Tesla to ask about connecting the inverter to the car simply because the rated output wattage was so close to the maximum, but I'm the kind of guy who drives at or slightly above the limit, not under it. Well, that is, depending on charge conditions. 8^D
There are two nagging things that I doubt any smoothing over can make perfectly right.
1] The inverter was tested by Tesla in other situations (in another car and presumably with another battery or supply) and it had input swings from 10V to 16V during operation. The sources were steady-state (unconnected) at 14.5-14.8VDC. Not the same as the 19V spikes seen in the Tesla. What does that mean, and does it matter if we know exactly why that happens? And in addition to that unknown, do we really know that the inverter damaged the switchpack, or that the switchpack they replaced, which they said actually worked, is really the source of the non-starting condition? After all, the car started working immediately after a couple of diagnostics were done. Augh!
2] The sensation of not being able to start the car is going to take a long time to fade away, especially when combined with point #1. I have a pretty vivid imagination and I can see myself walking up to my car the day after it's delivered and sitting in the -2 level parking lot in my apartment, and feel my non-start anxiety as I step into the car and turn the key.
I don't have my Roadster yet and I probably won't get it until tomorrow, because the tech who is driving it up will probably be arriving too late tonight to deliver it. Can someone help me out? I need the dimensions of the tray in front of the DC lighter socket. I'm having to come up with an alternative for getting AC into the cockpit without being connected directly to the car's power. I'm wondering if I can fit two 12V 7AH gel cells in there side by side, so I can charge one while using the other, then flip a DPDT switch to change over. Matt Farrell told me that he's going to check to see if anyone objects to me connecting a gel cell directly to the lighter socket with a current-limiting resistor. 1.5 ohms and around 200W should do. It'll be nice to have another source of heat now that fall is closing in. 8^D�
Sep 26, 2011
Doug_G Roughly 6" long, and 3-3/4" wide. Of course you'll need some space for the 12V connector...�
Sep 26, 2011
W.Petefish Plenty of room behind the passenger seat. You could even stick several LiPO batteries in behind there (for 5v) and have room for some SLAs (for 12v). They would all need a trickle charge, but that could be accomplished from the 12v accessory socket with a DC-DC converter and a solar charge controller... Schematic to follow.�
Sep 26, 2011
zack I think I've found my solution. Searched all afternoon and evening. I need something quickly, and if these are available to ship now, I think they're the ticket. 14.8V 8.8AH LiCoxNiyMnzO2 lithium battery. Instant battery change, pure sine wave, portable and light, two outlets, battery meter. A whopping 130watt hours of power! I can charge my cameras and phones for days with this thing. Not terribly expensive for what it is, either. I wish it came with a car charger, but you can't get everything! Leave it to highly specialized sites for us Tesla owners to find our needs (high-tech still photography support equipment!). Will it squeeze behind the passenger seat? 2.75" thick. I hope that clamp comes off easily!
Hey, it has a 500mA usb port too!�
Sep 26, 2011
zack Hey, I could charge the car off this one! :tongue:
If I was really careful I could extract a half-mile of charge.�
Sep 27, 2011
JRP3 Are you keeping the link secret? :wink:�
Sep 27, 2011
bonnie (click on the 'this'. It's a link.)�
Sep 27, 2011
Tommy The word is "these" for the link. Oh, how I hate being a "grammar Nazi" Sorry Bonnie.�
Sep 27, 2011
dsm363 I believe she said 'this' since that was the word Zack used that had the link in it (that was a little hard to see). Sometimes the link on here are readily apparent. I wonder if a different color could be picked or maybe links could be underlined?
�
Sep 27, 2011
Tommy What you say is true, however I was looking at post #88 where the word "these" was used as the link. I mistakenly thought Bonnie had inadvertently typed the wrong word, Bonnie was correctly referencing post #89 where the word "this" was used. My intent was to be helpful and point people to the word with the link. My attempt at correcting what I thought was a non existent link with humor missed the mark.�
Sep 27, 2011
JRP3 Ah, I missed both of "them". A brighter link color would help when links are "hidden" in the words.�
Sep 27, 2011
Doug_G That is why I've taken to using bold whenever I insert a link.�
Sep 27, 2011
JRP3 I usually just paste the link in link form, and don't bother to "hide" it in a word or phrase. Mostly because I'm lazy, but it does make it obvious that it's a link.�
Sep 27, 2011
bonnie The situation self-corrected before I saw it. And if I had, I would have laughed.
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Sep 28, 2011
JRP3 Zack, what happened with the noise issue?�
Sep 28, 2011
zack Hah! You caught that? I don't think that post was up for more than 5 minutes. Matt contacted me at 2 in the morning after receiving my email about the noise. I decided to take down my forum comments until Anthony (the tech working on it now in the parking lot across from my building) has a chance to figure out more about it. He was in the area servicing a light-blue Tesla up the street after delivering my vehicle yesterday. Could be something very simple (I hope!). I'll post an explanation and update when I know more.�
Sep 28, 2011
zack There was an annoying noise in the right speaker when I got the Tesla back yesterday. Today it was fixed by Anthony. Turns out that he'd inadvertently run the pump wiring parallel to the speaker crossover wiring on the right side of the car. Lucky for me, Anthony was in town servicing another Tesla up the street from me. Can't wait to see that one. Light blue.�
Sep 28, 2011
W.Petefish Way back in a past life when I was a theatre tech, we had problems of similar nature with lighting cables running parallel to our Main Mix output to the amplifiers. Blew several speakers with that. Good thing he found it.�
Sep 29, 2011
VolkerP Be aware that this is not a North America only forum. 2AM PST is late afternoon in good ol' Europe. TMC forum never sleeps :biggrin:�
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