Aug 3, 2015
Cyclone Seeing as some users may not read the 150+ page CPO thread, I thought I would break out some recent experiences into its own thread. Overall, I have hit some bumps in the process of getting my CPO car and while not any individual item screamed from the top of the mountain "Danger Will Robinson", as a whole, it has caused me to question my purchase and ultimately, in hindsight, I wouldn't have gone through with it if I knew then what I have learned till now. Instead, I would have waited for Tesla Motors to grow some more as a company to have some of these (IMO) missteps addressed before I ever experienced them.
So let's simply start from the top and go from there eh? Let me start this off by saying I truly do hope I am just an isolated case and nobody else goes through the trouble I have. In everything there are going to be outliers and perhaps this is the case of me being the "lucky one" (why couldn't this thread be about buying a lottery ticket?!?). I was enamored by the Tesla Model S and Tesla Motors. I joined this forum just a few months ago and have been soaking up all the Tesla knowledge I can. Made some amazing new friends, both in person and online only. I could tell that even if I was going to be an unofficial "beta tester", I would be ok with it as long as Tesla Motors also made a good faith effort on its part.
I had been searching (and saving up for the purchase) for the right car. A new S85 was a stretch compared to any car I've previously bought and was not only more than 3x the cost my next most expensive car, but it would be more than half what my house cost! The numbers didn't make the most financial sense, but altogether it wasn't crazy given how I've managed everything else in my life and provided the benefit of being "the right direction" for the future as I've long felt our polluting ways need to stop (or at least majorly scaled back). So I was saving up for the right inventory model when the CPO website went live. I was fortunate to have a neighbor as an owner and he knew I was very interested in the cars. He was the one who called me up that Friday night to tell me about the website.
April 24th, 2015
I found my car, texted the Owner Advisor who I took a test drive with, and confirm with him the car, the specs, no delivery fee, no add on fees (except whatever is required by my local government), and hit purchase. I was in heaven. Then a week later, the car didn't budge. Turns out Tesla HQ was still determining the logistics of transporting the vehicles and ultimately decided that even though I was told there would be no delivery fee (I have that in email and text writing), there would be a $500 delivery fee. Still, my car was in DC and I lived in Charlotte, so that wasn't unreasonable. As some may have seen in my Road Trip to Buy a Tesla? thread, I was ready to pay the fee, but the car wouldn't be delivered for a couple weeks. So I arranged to fly up and they were gracious enough to pick me up from the airport.
Now this is where Tesla Service is doing great. I had a small disappointment in the purchasing process, but they were doing whatever they could to make this a great experience. My local store confirmed that if anything didn't pass muster when I saw the car, DC could notate it and Charlotte would fix it.
During this time, I had also applied to finance my CPO through Tesla. I secured outside financing, but was willing to go with Tesla itself if the terms were right. Up until a few nights before I flew up to DC for my car, everyone I spoke with kept saying they saw my application in the system and I would hear from Tesla Financing. Finally I got someone to provide me the right email address to reach out to and the Financing department said they saw I was doing an application, but something went wrong and it never went through. Another break there were no less than four people confirmed my app was in the system, then only to find out it was lost. Thankfully, I had already secured outside financing and had them overnight me a check. Never hurts to be prepared!
May 14th, 2015
So when I picked up the car, most things were great. I did have one scratch on the back passenger quarter panel and bumper that needed to be repainted and a shallow scratch on the hood. The cargo net wasn't in stock, but Charlotte had them to provide. Additionally, I noticed the mirrors would not manually fold in no matter how hard I or the Delivery Specialist there tried. They noted these items and said Charlotte would take care of it. So off I went for a great drive home.
May 19th, 2015
I go into my local store, they get me the cargo net and I purchase a front trunk all weather floor mat. My older VIN has the 2" deeper front trunk than other RWD cars, I either lucked out that they had one such mat in stock, or when I mentioned it to the DC store that I would want something like this, they said they can make sure Charlotte had one since DC didn't. So perhaps they phoned ahead and got it drop-shipped to the Charlotte store. Anyway, I buy that and the interior all weather floor mats. They set me up with an appointment for June 1st to bring my car (expected for a week) to get the hood repainted, the rear repainted, and the mirrors fixed. I had also noticed that my trunk was making a knocking sound (Knocking sound from power lift gate) and had that noted. I also mentioned my disappointment that the brake rotors were covered in rust, but I was told this was only cosmetic and I would need to live with it. A disappointment for sure on a car that is marketed as "like new", but oh well.
June 2nd, 2015
So a day after I dropped off my vehicle and got a loaner (S85 Classic vs. P85 Autopilot Comparison), I get a call that the body shop is backed up and we need to reschedule the repaint in the back. They managed to buff out (rather than repaint) the scratch on the hood. This meant the rock chips that had been there (and service through silver touch up paint was applied to instead of gray) weren't removed from the repainting, it still was a bad job and a 2013 having three rock chips on the edge wasn't the end of the world. The Service Center also performed the following repairs:
- (TSB) Replaced 12v postive jump post
- Replaced the mirrors
- Verified the A/C TSB was previously applied (strong vibrations from a/c when sitting out in the sun)
- Pano stops replaced, "rubber" replaced (butyl -> urethane), cleaned up, and "trimmed tabs for improved pano roof clearance". This stopped the pano smearing black goo on the top of the rear passenger glass when opening
- taillights had insects in them and were cleaned out
- reverse lights had water ingress and the seals, washers, and rear appliqu� were replaced
- motor whine (the milling noise others noticed) was recorded and sent to engineering
- the strut on the life gate replaced
- brakes verified to confirm rust was not impacting performance
June 3rd (yes, the next day)
I had to take the car back to service because the mirrors now no longer tilted when in reverse nor changed position between profiles. SC found they had installed the wrong model mirrors (the non-TP version essentially). Replaced mirrors again and all was well.
June 15th-18th, 2015
The car goes in for the rear paintwork and I get another loaner. Looks great and I'm happy. Now to finally get the next steps of a new owner done.
July 8th, 2015
I've babied the car over the past month waiting on the rear paint to cure. The body shop told me that I should wait 60 days to get the car XPEL wrapped and cQuartz coated, but I can begin washing it after 30 days. This was closest to that time and I take the car in, go over what has happened, and speak with the detailer to make it clear not to do the rear of the car since it was repainted and I would come back in August for the rear. Sadly, when clay barring the car and applying Acrysol in cleaning it, the clear coat comes off from the front passenger fender when the detailer is wiping everything off with a microfiber towel. He notes that it appears the car has previously been poorly painted here as you can see the car clearly has sanding underneath and there appears to be a dot of bondo. He says this can only be from a poor paint job previously. Tesla takes a look at it and feels the detailer must have applied the wrong chemical to it. They look through their records in case they see anything about a previous repaint. They state that if the previous owner got it repainted without going through a Tesla certified shop, Tesla would NOT cover the fix. They ultimately find no record of any repainting in the area. They did ask me to take the car to the two certified shops around me and see if the body shop felt this was a factory paint failure, which they would then cover. Neither shop felt it was a factory failure.
July 27th, 2015
Tesla has agreed to provide me a loaner while the car is getting repainted. As unhappy as I am that Tesla is not going to help me with the repaint cost, I am happy that the Service Center is trying their best to make this as painless as possible for me. I drop off my car with Tesla, they give me a loaner, and they coordinate getting the car to and from the body shop. Additionally, HQ has instructed my VIN to get the proactive contractor replacement. So we run into a couple of issues over the past month and the Service Center makes the following repairs prior to shuffling my car out to the body shop:
- battery failed testing due to corrosion on one section and exhaust vent is clogged. Loaner battery installed while my battery goes to Freemont for rebuilding.
- drive unit is making the subtle clunk between power and region. Additionally, I reiterate the motor whine that was recorded and sent to HQ before. A remanufactured drive unit is installed in my car
- Under the same line-item as the drive unit, they replaced both rear rotor hats. No clue as to why, but now these rotor hats are rust-free. No change to the calipers (not a problem) nor replacement of the front rotor hats (odd).
- my left scroll wheel sometimes would ignore small scrolls. They confirm and replace both scroll wheels (comes as a set)
- my driver door doesn't always open from the interior latch. They find the cable is connected to the handle, but the mount has broken pins. They replace the mount so the cable is no longer strained.
- At my request and expense, they retrofit power folding mirrors. My garage doors are tight (I have two separate one-car doors to a two-car garage) and it was a matter of when, not if, I hit a mirror. Now I can fold in the mirrors as I park.
- the front trunk had water ingress by the latch. They replaced the seal where the hood meets the front trunk cavity.
Three months since purchasing
Tesla reiterates that they feel the detailer did a poor job in their work and my failure was a direct result of his work. The detailer continues to state that this was because of a poor prior paint job. Other owners who have seen my car are inclined to agree with the dealer and are surprised to learn that the CPO warranty does not cover prior paint jobs. As one person pointed out (#1616)...
In another 6-8 weeks, I get to go in again to swap back to my own battery. Hopefully I do not have any other repairs needed at that time. Meanwhile, around that time, the detail has agreed to at least put on these two panels that were repainted at no charge. I still will have to pay out of pocket for the XPEL on the rear of the vehicle (I paid for the front 3/4s already).
Now, I love my car and it is a joy to drive. It is just frustrating that I drank the kool-aid that CPO cars are reconditioned like-new and would be just as good as new car except for small wear and tear. I am NOT trying to get my Service Center in trouble (I'm looking at you Tesla who has twice already told the SvC about posts I've made on here). I am disappointed really in HQ's policies that the SvC must follow. I have never before been a luxury buyer. I've had a Mazda 626, two Toyota 4Runners, and a VW EOS prior to this purchase. I wasn't expecting a picture-perfect car, but I honestly expected more than I received, both in Tesla's policies and handling of a new customer and in what constitutes acceptable for a CPO. I will continue to be a proponent for what Tesla Motors is trying to do, but I'm tempering my love for the company based on real-life experiences.
And yes, at the end of the day, I really would have NOT bought my Model S right now and waited a couple more months or a year and bought once Tesla was focused more on "mainstream" buyers like myself. Either Tesla would have updated some of their ways of doing things, or I wouldn't have gotten the glowy expectation of how Tesla will go the extra mile to fix any problems and make sure I have the best possible experience. Comparing notes with my family members, their experience from their Lexus dealer is miles ahead of Tesla on getting things done right up front. They may ultimately be stinky ICEs and have enormous charges for routine service that the Model S won't need, but they provide a much more consistent experience and frankly, have done much better with my mother's CPO IS than Tesla did with my CPO Model S. Not to mention my still outstanding gripe (though I recognized this upfront and still hope Tesla Motors changes its tune on it someday while I own my car) -- you cannot get an extended warranty on a CPO Tesla like you can on other makes' CPOs. Hopefully the next four years of ownership under warranty do not mean continue to report the experience of the past 3 months.
Time to get off my soapbox. If you have scroll this far along, thank you for reading!�
Aug 3, 2015
MsElectric It pains me to read this as I know you and Drucifer were one of the first forum members to purchase a CPO Model S and I know how excited you were about your Model S.
At this point what would it take for Tesla to make this right for you?�
Aug 3, 2015
Cyclone I cannot answer that question at this time. There would be too much emotion in a response. Generally speaking, when I get "worked up", I tend to shut out for a bit and come back to things when I'm past the emotion so that I can speak a bit more objectively. It was a cathartic release to write such as long post to start a thread, but it helps to get it out and hopefully things will look better in another couple days. Though, I'm also a person to baby the car for a little bit, so it basically is a garage queen for the next few weeks while the paint cures. I never sold my prior ICE and loaned it to a family member. He brought it to me this weekend since I will be driving that for a month. It probably will not help my opinion much to be driving the 4Runner for another month while the Model S sits beside it in the garage. Kind of being reminded over and over again about the experience until I have some more positive experiences to paint over the last three months.
At least Cars and Coffee and our local Tesla group's monthly meetups help. This a double-edged sword for Tesla though as they have all been seeing my car and getting updates to this story as I've moved along. But in the past week when I dropped off my car and today when I picked it up, I met two other new owners who reached out to me on here as they were excited about their new cars and I helped provide a picture of what to expect, items to consider getting, places to go, and other owners that can provide some good feedback. Meeting them helped my mood tremendously.�
Aug 3, 2015
mibaro2 Thanks for sharing your (painful) experience. Like you said, the CPO program is very new and will have bumps before it matures.
Sorry you have gone through so many problems.�
Aug 3, 2015
Max* I've been keeping up with your comments in the CPO thread, nice of you to consolidate them in one place. And sorry, that sucks...�
Aug 3, 2015
hpham007 Your situation is not unique. I talked to another cpo buyer whose car had numerous issues. Leaking pano, chrome trim badly misaligned, milling noise, dirty interior, etc. All of these issues would have been discovered if someone spent 20 minutes with the car. I once heard someone say that Tesla spends about 5 thousand per cpo getting the car up to snuff. I'm beginning to think they just give the car a quick wash and leave it up to the buyers to find the issues.�
Aug 3, 2015
Cyclone Oh I mentioned this in the CPO thread. When I picked up my car they were washing the headliner, so it was wet and I didn't see any stains. As it dried, I have stains all over the pano. Some are small scuff marks, but some are are multiple-inch long and one or two inch wide streaks. My local service center that is another "live with it" item.
I am sorry to say, but I am more a believer of the latter than the former since I've also heard the same from other CPO buyers. That said, I also have seen CPO buyers report back that everything was perfect, so some centers are in fact going over the cars completely.�
Aug 3, 2015
TomServo WOW. The previous owner must not have taken very good care or cared about that car. I hope Tesla fixes everything to your satisfaction or takes the car back.
Please keep us up to date on Tesla's attempts to repair your CPO.�
Aug 3, 2015
BoerumHill Cyclone - thanks for sharing. I'm sure others will chime in with their own experiences and it will run the full spectrum. At least, that's my hope for this thread - it becomes a repository for the good, the bad & the indifferent CPO tales.
I'm disappointed in the paint condition of your Model S. Coupled with the other issues, I feel like a more seasoned CPO program would not have certified & the car would have gone to auction. I've had immediate & extended family members buy CPO from BMW, Lexus & MB; Tesla CPO lacks their consistency, but I am hopeful they'll get there.
To be fair, your purchase was literally at the infancy of the CPO - three days before the website went live. No excuse, though. I feel like you got punished being a pioneer, and I'm disappointed in Tesla for not doing more for you.�
Aug 3, 2015
Cyclone Just a note, it was on the night the site went live. *Max I think bought just days before it went live. That said, I wouldn't really be that annoyed (given the infancy) of the program if somethings needed to be worked out (like the transport fee) and some cars weren't quite up to par. But it does bother me that Tesla HQ didn't step up to the plate and say we will get this taken care of. Now, I can understand the point that they didn't repaint the car, so they shouldn't be responsible for it. But to me, that comes with the territory of certifying the car. The other matters, just as hpham007 said. If they actually used them a bit more, they would probably find these issues. My local SvC has said they are finding some service loaners are cars rejected from the CPO program. That makes sense as none of the problems I had prevented use of the car. So they would work well as a "mule". At least that is better than the cases were some people have to get a Hertz or Enterprise rental since no loaners were available.
And don't get me wrong. I am NOT looking for Tesla to buy back my car. I just wanted everything fixed and taken care of like it should have been (IMO) before it got handed over to me w/o cost to me. But this could be the emotions talking and maybe I'm just being unrealistic or feeling "entitled".
- - - Updated - - -
Case in point, both of the keys I was given with the car were scratch, scuffed, one was cracked, and the other had significant wear and tear. On this last visit and my first visit, the local SvC felt the key casing needed to be replaced. Honestly speaking, this should have been done before they keys were handed over. I didn't take a picture of them, but there are others who posted photos of the their key wear on here. My "button covers" were still there, but one was cracked around the button cover and the button had an edge and piercing through the casing. The other key had more "wear and tear", but less "about to fall apart". These are things a new owner connects with the car and a $5 (well, $25 retail) casing should have been changed when reconditioning the car. It's all about setting the right impressions.�
Aug 3, 2015
marcad80 I do sympathize with your problems. As a purchaser of a CPO myself in mid May I see some of this as well.
I have bought many used and new cars in my day. And the only time I find myself getting mildly frustrated with my Tesla experience is when they get me confused thinking this was a new car purchase. Meaning they have done such an amazing job with my purchase experience (walking through the car, calling later to check on me, giving me swag, etc) that I forgot it was a used car purchase. I've been looking at used Model S prices for years and I did not pay a premium for a CPO over a used Salvage title car on Ebay.
For me this goes down as a mediocre new car purchase or the best used car experience I have ever had. I just need to keep reminding myself which one it was. Not trying to be a smart xss here, but when i find a new scratch or dent, I do have to remind myself of this.�
Aug 3, 2015
kyalami This is quite a story. I was also an early CPO convert and ordered my car on May 4th, a few days after the site and consolidator went live. I selected a 2012 P85 Signature car since it had everything that I wanted, including the silver signature paint. Since my car was one of the first 1000 VINs, I was a bit apprehensive about it since I could not see its previous service history and there were lot's of stories on TMC about early teething problems. I kept my fingers crossed that the PO had gotten any gremlins sorted by the time he traded it in for his D model two years after initial purchase.
So I am 9 weeks into possession of the car and can gladly say that I have not had a single significant issue with the car. Everything works, it looks great (except for those rusty rotor covers!) and I am smiling from ear to ear. I went to the recent grand opening of Tesla's new service center/store outside of Boston and had no service issues to discuss with the staff. Except for a very slight whistle on the driver's side window, I thankfully have nothing that needs attention, yet.
So, Cyclone, I feel for you and am pained by your experience because I know that Tesla can do better. In your case, I hope they win back your trust.�
Aug 3, 2015
MsElectric I think Tesla needs to hire someone who had implemented the CPO program for Mercedes or some other car manufacturer. We have bought several Mercedes CPO cars in the past and they completely stand behind the car they sell as that's the whole point for buying a CPO car. On the Mercedes forum I once remember someone buying a CPO E Class to find it has had prior accident damage that was not fixed properly and they basically bought the car back with no hassle. Also when you buy a CPO Mercedes the keys you get are pristine. If they are not in good shape, they are replaced and they even go as far as giving you a new manual in a nice new binder. These are little things but it's the first thing you touch when you buy the car and it is part of the experience.
CPO should mean that they have gone over the car carefully and made everything right PRIOR to the car being sold to someone. That's how every other manufacturer from Toyota to Mercedes handles their CPO program. I know sometimes the fact that everyone else does something one way is not justification for Tesla doing the same thing but this is a case where Tesla and their customers are best served when their CPO cars actually go through a certification process before they are sold. That process needs to be very thorough with an assessment of the paint condition of the car along with any past paint or bodywork that has been done. In cases where faults or issues are found, they need to be completely remedied or the car sent to auction. This is CPO 101.
It is inexcusable to tell you that the bad paint job on the car by a previous owner is your problem. You bought a Tesla Certified car so you don't inherit someone else's problem.
I hope they make this right for you in addressing the issues with the car at no cost to you. I think it is the right thing to do.�
Aug 3, 2015
tkizzy I second everybody's sympathies. Certified by Tesla should be a cut above a private sale in terms of guarantee of quality.�
Aug 3, 2015
BoerumHill I have to say IMO Cyclone is anything but entitled. I've seen folks on these forums scream louder and longer over far less significant issues. He's been, to the best of my knowledge, completely reasonable & patient with Tesla.
I'm happy that the vast majority of CPO buyers have had a very good experience. But Cyclone's ordeal has given me pause about buying a CPO.�
Aug 3, 2015
Max* I went new, and I think I did buy right before the CPO program started as I was debating used vs. new, and I might have been in my 1 week confirmation period when the site went live and I still decided to stay with new.
For a new car, I'm surprised at the amount of minor issues I've had (only a very small fraction of problems compared to Cyclone) -- rear hatch buffetting (fixed myself by adjusting the stoppers), door handle stopped working (fixed by Tesla), steering wheel scroll sometimes non-responsive (fixed by Tesla), while they were fixing the steering wheel scroll they scratched up the steering wheel buttons ever-so-slightly (but enough for me to notice and complain), AC vibration (was told it's "normal"), my arm rest fell apart (partially fixed by me, getting fixed by Tesla in 3 weeks), my rear parking sensors are going crazy (getting fixed by Tesla in 3 weeks)... I'm sure I'm missing something, but FTR the car is 1.5 months old and on my previous new car (I don't think I've had a fraction of these problems in the first year of ownership).�
Aug 3, 2015
MsElectric I think this underscores the importance of a thorough Pre Purchase Inspection before you pay for the car. Despite the marketing the CPO car you get might not be a "like new" car.
We may very well end up buying a CPO Tesla next year as long as by then they offer the option to pay for an extended warranty but if we go that route this is what we plan to do:
+ Put down the deposit to reserve the car.
+ Have them do all the reconditioning and "certifying" that they do before we see the car.
+ Take the time to thoroughly inspect the car in person.
+ Request to see and go over the past service records for the car (and not accept "no we can't show you the service records" as an answer).
+ And finally take the car to a reputed body shop and pay them to inspect the paint as well as signs or prior accident damage.
+ Hand over the payment once these items have been satisfied. This is how we generally buy any used car and likely applies for CPO Tesla cars as well.
+ If any major issues came up during the due diligence for the car, I'd then ask to transfer the deposit for another car.
To Tesla's credit it seems many CPO buyers are satisfied with their cars so the good news is this doe snot seem to be an endemic issue but the steps above will minimize the likelihood you end up in an unfortunate situation no matter how much of an outlier such cases are.
I concur that Cyclone is anything but entitled. He's been extremely patient and reasonable and it is Tesla's turn to be the same and make this right for Cyclone.�
Aug 3, 2015
NigelM Most of your posts are negative re:Tesla. Working in the oil business wouldn't make you biased would it?�
Aug 3, 2015
clarkbariowa I think the program has matured, at least in my area. The car I found showed that it was one of the first available around 4/27. It was sitting at the Highland Park, IL location all that time. I called into the store and said I see two CPOs do you have them available. I then came out and test drove the one I ended up purchasing. It was a little dirty in the interior, but I was more concerned with how it drove. I test drove every other model, except the P85 at that point. I was blown away at the response and how the car drove. It was amazing. At that point I knew some minor reconditioning/detailing was all that was needed for delivery. Within a week that process was complete. Everything is immaculate on the car, I could not find a single problem. My owner advisor said that the car has to go through the thorough CPO process before even being allowed on the lot and because it was there since 4.27, they went through most of the process again as well. I have a feeling that they were not prepared for this program in the beginning and have learned from their mistakes at this point. In my opinion the CPO program is amazing. I just got my dream car that would have been $110K new for $69K, with basically the same warranty. The car has lived up to all my expectations and more!�
Aug 3, 2015
Cyclone I'm glad you found a great car Clark. I wouldn't be surprised if my car sat in a lot for a while. That said, it was three weeks from purchasing to pickup, so that should have been plenty of time to finish up the car.
Thank you everyone for your comments and support. I hope it's not confirmation bias that others also don't feel I was expecting too much with what Tesla would or wouldn't do. My trust I would say they still have, but have tapped out the "goodwill" of the customer bank account. I did not take an agreessive stance with local Service Center because I feel I don't want to be that customer they just try to get out the door. Instead, I try to interact with them in such a way as they would want to be my advocate when talking with whatever powers that be in certain decisions.
I think the true test will be how I feel in two weeks. My neighbor (who told me about the CPO site) and I are driving our cars in a parade in downtown to promote "Drive Electric". I'm sure there are going to be lots of questions at chat like at Cars and Coffee (the EV owners club meets beforehand and we line up the Model S, ELR, Leafs, Volts, and I3s together). I will still be positive in talking about Tesla, but wonder if I'll be ecstatic.
Anyways, thank you again for your support and insights. I truly appreciate our community and I very much appreciate hearing others tales of their CPO experience, either at Tesla or with other manufacturers.�
Aug 3, 2015
clarkbariowa I just sent a link for this post to my owner advisor. I was told that the head of the CPO program was in the Chicago area. Maybe they will read over your experience and it will get some traction/resolution.�
Aug 4, 2015
cwerdna Wow, sounds like a huge headache, but brake rotor rust where the pads don't contact is totally normal. I've seen it on every car I've ever had where the rotors were easily visible thru the wheels. And, rust will quickly appear on the rotors if the car's left for a bit, which is also totally normally. Some use of the friction brakes make it go away.�
Aug 4, 2015
MsElectric In this case though the brake rotor is fine. What looks awful is the brake drum and that will not get better with braking as there are no contact areas on the drum. Also the caliper looks horrible like the previous owner took horrible care of the car and never washed and cleaned it. IMHO they should have done something to improve the appearance of the car before selling it as CPO. CPO should mean "like new" with minimal wear and they should have done something to dress up the brake drum and caliper.
Again rust, dirt, and grime in the rotor is acceptable and normal but this is not the rotor.�
Aug 4, 2015
Cyclone Well, they did replace the rear rotor hats on this last service visit. I still don't know why (not like I was complaining though). I can only imagine it was connected with my drive unit swap b/c they did not service the front rotor hats. This picture is of how my rear brakes look now. This, to me, is an acceptable level of cosmetic wear and tear to the brakes.
�
Aug 4, 2015
No2DinosaurFuel Wow sounds like i dodge a major headache. I was excited for tesla cpo program but now i think i should just buy new. Not worth the hassle.
Again stories like this only convince me more the cpo cars should cost a lot less. I guess tesla will be losing more money on their buy back guarantee.�
Aug 4, 2015
Drucifer If anything, the CPO cars should cost maybe $2-4k more, and REALLY be gone over and REALLY be fully inspected before going on the site. At least 1/4 or more of the CPO (or used not yet CPO) Model S that Tesla is holding on to should be relegated to auction and not hit the CPO program at all.
I will add that I also had numerous issues with my car on delivery (at my house). 80%+ of these issues were obvious in a 20 minute inspection I did of the car on receipt (one with the interior lighting you wouldn't find except at night). My assumption has to be that they didn't want to delay delivery of my car and wanted to get it into my hands.
Fortunately for me, all of the issues were resolved by the local service center within 7 days of delivery and they gave me a loaner for 2 1/2 days to get that done. I got lucky - but really, with a CPO program, receipt of a 100% "ready to drive" car should be a 100% thing, unless something happens on the transporter on the way to a home delivery of a car.�
Aug 4, 2015
Father Bill I am so sorry that you have had all the problems you have had. I agree that the MS should have been brought back to like new condition. I can only guess that the program was so new that some problems slipped through the net. I put my deposit down April 26th and had my car on the 1st of May. I have had nothing but a good experience with my purchase (minus an issue with Illinois Registration, which is still not resolved:cursing. The few little things that were left to be done have been. The Service Center has gone out of their way to keep the car in like new condition. I only hope that you find some resolution to all the issues you have gone through. Keep asking for resolution and I hope that someone at the mothership will respond effectively.
Peace,
Father Bill�
Aug 4, 2015
freeewilly Thanks for sharing your experience, most posts are praise how great the CPO experience, but some of us want to read both sides of the story. I never purchased an used car before, it reminds me that I'm not buying a new car.
I just reserved a CPO car from Highland Park yesterday, the advisor contacted me during the car was in the inspection to qualify for CPO. It's hard to believe that I made the decision to purchase the car only base from an email with a tiny picture that shows the options of the car. I pulled the trigger without see and touch the product, it was all based on Tesla's image of how they handles the CPO and treat their customers.
The car is scheduled to be delivered to OC in 3 weeks, I really hope I'm the lucky one and looking forward to enjoy what most people praise about Tesla purchasing experience.�
Aug 4, 2015
3mp_kwh Sorry, Cyclone. A lack of coverage for past, non-Tesla, workmanship stood out to me. I almost think they really don't mean that, or wouldn't hold you to it if pressed. I looked up Acrysol and it's a tough call. Not an uncommon product in a detailer's toolkit, but enough of a last resort tool that perhaps they should have tried a more limited area? A number of search hits show that it is good for over-spray (misty roughness).
I have to bite my tongue. We want Tesla to have a successful CPO program, and maybe realize it should involve fewer cars.�
Aug 4, 2015
MsElectric You are buying a used car. Do your due diligence like any other used car. Go over the car carefully inside and out, ask to inspect the service records and work history on the car so you know the car was maintained properly and there are no major reoccurring issues and I highly recommend you have a reputable body shop do a pre purchase inspection. It will cost you $200 but you will know if there are any paint issues or any accident damage that was not fixed properly. It's a small cost to do that pre purchase inspection for a very expensive purchase. I personally would not pay for a used car without satisfying these points.�
Aug 4, 2015
zer0cool Overall Tesla is a good company, but they kind of suck at selling cars. This no dealership model is kind of a failure I think...
I first test drove a car in Atlanta and the salesman was amazing and I basically decided to buy the car right there. Then I did another test-drive in CLT and there is no doubt in my and my wife's minds that if we had first test-drove the car in CLT, we would definitely NOT have bought a Tesla because the salesperson was unenthusiastic and did nothing to explain and promote the product. Like any product, the salesperson makes or breaks a deal no matter how good the product really is.
I think Tesla should and must institute a dealer like system whereby effective salespeople are rightly awarded.
Moreover, the deliver process, like many who agreed with me in my thread and as many others have posted, lacks information, communications, and is pretty much outright bad compared to say Mercedes, Lexus, or BMW.
The CPO program probably needs to be improved. Certain cars that are in poor conditions should not belong to a CPO program... I purchased an almost new Lexus a couple years ago, and although the front hood had been painted, the car was in completely excellent condition. I could not tell at all that the car was used, and could easily be put in a showroom and would look completely new. The car had absolutely no issues whatsoever. If I go to my local Mercedes dealership and look at their CPO cars (I have done such things in recent years), they are all in immaculate condition and all look new, pressure washed daily.
If Tesla wants to sell more cars and really become a mainstream car company, it needs to improve all these aspects.�
Aug 4, 2015
Max* I could not DISAGREE more with the bolded statement.�
Aug 4, 2015
MsElectric Tesla may have problems but I wholeheartedly disagree with you about Tesla instituting an award system for employees to sell cars being the solution but I do agree with you in that improvements can and should be made to the CPO program.
Tesla is outselling the Mercedes S class in the $100K sedan market. They have 20,000+ reservations for the yet to be released Model X. They are doing just fine with sales and the product sell itself.
They do not have a sales problem. They have communication problems and certain problems with their policies that IMHO can be modified to better serve their customers and themselves I just posted a thread about my thought on this on the Model S forum.
The Tesla staff I believe are doing the absolute best they can for the company. They are the unsung heroes performing magic with limited resources and I'm sure work long days. I've worked with Tesla employees at various levels and they all do the best they can for the company.�
Aug 4, 2015
mikeash That is very strange. I've never seen or even heard of an uninterested Tesla staffer before.
However, while car shopping at traditional dealers a couple of years ago, it was about 50/50 as to whether any given sales person gave a crap about me. There were a couple of good ones, a bunch of people who sort of cared a little bit, and a couple of people who did the bare minimum possible.
Dealers suck, and Tesla's model is far superior, even if it may not be perfect.�
Aug 4, 2015
BoerumHill I haven't been very impressed with the folks at the tiny gallery on West 25th in Manhattan. Low energy and prone to misinformation. One guy, Michael, is 5 series owner and a performance car enthusiast, but he's also one of three employees at that location who gave me false info ("RFS can be added to a new order aftermarket.") I'm probably going to order/take delivery at a not exactly nearby service center location (Mt Kisco or Syosset) just to avoid them.�
Aug 4, 2015
dhanson865 I thought CPOs were supposed to be refurbished to "like new", that doesn't even look like "like cleaned well" let alone "like new".
I think someone needs to have a serious review of what a NEW car should look like.
And that is AFTER they replaced parts and made it look better. Seriously I'd want some Aero or 19" cyclone/turbine style wheels to reduce visibility of the corrosion if they aren't going to repaint or replace ugly calipers.
- - - Updated - - -
Agreed for a Model S. Something that expensive is worth a small bit of insurance by being prudent and employing others to double check your inspection.
I however didn't take that level of care when buying a used Leaf for $8995. I checked it out with an ODBII adapter / leafspy so I knew the battery SOH% / aHr level and cell balance but I didn't take it to a shop for a paid inspection.
I'll tell you right now my non CPO used Leaf looked pristine compared to his CPO Tesla (no rust on the rims, discs, calipers, no surprises inside or out).
I'd be talking to a regional or national level manager if the service center doesn't make it right. Heck even if they do make it right I'd send a followup message up the chain to address the underlying procedural issues.�
Aug 5, 2015
TomServo Does the Model S have two piece rotor's? If not how would they "replace the rotor hat's"?�
Aug 5, 2015
HankLloydRight I don't think Tesla ever made a promise like this, rather it's just what CPO buyers are expecting. Rust on rotors is common on ALL cars, new, used, CPO, etc. Rotors begin to rust the moment they leave the factory.
They either replaced the rotors or painted the existing ones. I don't see how/why the rear rotors would be involved in a drive unit replacement.�
Aug 5, 2015
Cyclone Multiple Owner Advisors and Store Managers have explicitly stated that to me. That said, "like new" is unqualified and subject to interpretation. Later customers can get a checklist of what CPO reconditioning is done, that adds significant clarity.
Personally, I've never bought vehicles from the North before. Maybe as I experience Northern cars more, it will change my expectations. That said, I will say I was very surprised to see them that way even when there was no performance impact. Looking at the calipers then vs. now, if the calipers are rotors came to me in that cleaner, but not perfect state, it would have been fine to me. It was intensity as-delivered that took me aback. But yes, I hear that is very common on cars from the North.
- - - Updated - - -
I don't know. The service invoice in the same line item "box" as the "Rear Drive Unit - Remove and Replace" and "Four Wheel Alignment (with Air Suspension)" does include:
Corrections: Brake Rotor - Rear - LH
Replaced LH rear brake rotor.
Part:
REAR BRAKE ROTOR - OUTER HAT AS CAST (6006431-00-D)
Corrections: Brake Rotor - Rear - RH
Replaced RH rear brake rotor.
Part:
REAR BRAKE ROTOR - OUTER HAT AS CAST (6006431-00-D)�
Aug 5, 2015
jeffro01 I agree with 'Max*'. Turning Tesla over to the sharks would be a very, very, very bad idea. Elon has been adamant about this from day one, and I couldn't agree with him more.
Tesla needs to weed out bad apples as they find them though. I haven't seen a Tesla store where everyone wasn't enthusiastic about the brand\car(s). I'd be very put off if I did though, but I wouldn't hold it against Tesla directly. Sometimes people just have a bad day and aren't as jovial as they could be, etc..., etc...
Jeff�
Aug 5, 2015
PokerBroker My car has been in for service 8 times in 11 months so I can definitely feel your pain! I try to remind myself that, as popular as Tesla is, I am still an early adopter of a new technology. Tesla's amazing customer service at the service center is the only thing that has kept me sane. I can't say that any other dealer would have taken care of me the way Tesla has. At this point, I'll never drive an ICE again so I'm willing to accept a bit of the pain associated with driving electric and driving a new car from a start-up company.�
Aug 5, 2015
eye.surgeon I don't want to be flippant, but it's called buying a used car for a reason. It's been used.�
Aug 5, 2015
Cyclone I want to second this. I don't know if any crews have been rotating out of the office, but the two OAs, the Store Manager, the SA, and the Service Manager have been energetic and amazing from the start for me. But I've only had maybe 10-15 interactions with them out of hundreds they must have had? It is still disappointing that these things happen, but that is part of human life.
I want to reiterate that I do not feel my local representatives have not been trying to do the best they can. I think they just had some policies they must follow that weren't written with consideration to exception cases, or perhaps aren't empowered to make an exception decision. Within the policy of this or that, I can see them doing their best to exceed expectations and giving the best experience, but sometimes the overarching process may be limiting their options.�
Aug 5, 2015
Drucifer But Tesla and Mercedes and BMW and Lexus et. al. all make a HUGE DEAL about CPO being not just any used car. They collectively mention some or all of: multi-point inspections, refurbishments, extended or resetting warranties, auctioning off cars that don't make the cut, manufacturer support etc.
Expectations have been set. I didn't buy my Tesla from CarMax or a private seller.�
Aug 5, 2015
Jool I agree completely. The description under each CPO Tesla listing mentions that the car receives a full inspection - while mistakes do happen, Cyclone's experience makes me wonder how thorough that inspection really is. Attaching the Certified Pre-Owned moniker to a vehicle should denote a standard of quality that isn't guaranteed to be found on a regular used car purchase.�
Aug 5, 2015
rxlawdude Well, I'm sure they "inspected" it. Whether they did anything about problems they found during the expectation is clear from the OP.�
Aug 5, 2015
Drucifer Inspections can vary:
Basic Inspection:
Is it a car? [Y] [N]
Does it have 4 wheels? [Y] [N]
Is it a Tesla? [Y] [N]
Is it a Model S? [Y] [N]
Does it have a VIN? If Y type here___________
|End of inspection|�
Aug 6, 2015
Swell We also had a bit of a bad experience in taking delivery of our CPO. We went to see the car prior to putting our deposit down and it had several things that needed to be repaired and were assured that it would be "made new". Bumpers needed repainting, rims repaired due to curbing, interior cleaned etc. Nothing major. Within a week we were told we could return to test drive before we completed the purchase but the car still needed some items fixed and wouldn't be ready for delivery for a few more days. We arrived, test drove (blew our minds) and returned to further inspect the car with the Service Advisor who recommend we do so. We were told prior to inspecting from the Delivery Specialist that the car was in fact done and could be taken home that day except the rims would still need repair but they would send a mobile repair to complete the job the next day. The fact that it was ready came as a surprise to the Service Advisor who saw some things that led him to believe the car had not gone through the checklist to be ready. We saw a few minor problems (scratch, stain on headliner) that could be fixed if we wanted to bring the car back. Since we live an hour and half away and my husband works close by we chose to take the car with arrangements to get a loaner the next day and have all the minor things done along with the wheels that would take just that day. We purchase, have a awesome delivery experience, just like you would with a new car. Big red bow, certificate, our picture taken. Very nice. Get home discover there is no longer the adapter to charge at home in the trunk and the portable charging cable is missing. These were both in the car when we first inspected. Luckily it has enough charge to make it back to dealership if needed but we have a super charger 30 minutes from us so we go to charge there. Won't charge, go to another supercharger near the dealership, won't charge. Return to the dealership and discover there is a problem with the ability to charge (sorry don't remember the part) They will have to replace. We also tell them we don't think the car was in fact ready and ask for the checklist which they don't have and our Service Advisor tells us he doesn't even think it went through the proper inspection for delivery. So we leave the car and are given a loaner for 10 days. That is how long it took to fix everything that should have been done prior to delivery. Lack of communication, lack of a proper steps for a CPO program, they need to have a standard that all CPO cars should meet just like other luxury car maker CPO programs. All cars listed for sale should already have gone through and been ready to sell according to the CPO program before listing. Over all we love our "new" Tesla and it is now almost like new but just a bit of a let down to start off on such a rocky road. I know the program is new but CPO programs aren't and Tesla should have really done their research ahead of time to avoid some of these issues.�
Aug 6, 2015
jlk Sorry to hear about your experience.
This doesn't sound too promising. I'll be flying in to pick up my CPO S60, and driving roughly 500 miles back home on the same day, through 4 superchargers. If I have a similar experience, I won't be a happy customer.
I guess that the loaner situation isn't going to be the same for me being in New Mexico. The nearest service center is ~400 miles away.
Maybe I'll need to have them send me the completed checklist ahead of time, or at least send pictures.�
Aug 6, 2015
Cyclone And that is a self-inflicted problem. Some people like SabrToothSqrl and Lolgas bought their CPOs before the program was open to the public. I could under the program being "new" then and Tesla was still working some stuff out. But when the CPO site went live, everything should have been ready b/c they are the ones who decided on that date. They could have chosen to wait another week or two to get all the details worked out first.
- - - Updated - - -
Honestly, I would invest into a paint depth measuring device and check every panel on the car to see if anything has previously been repainted. I would learn the usual things to check on a private-party used car purchase and check them out on your car. I would then get there and ask them to leave you alone with the car (hold off on the demo basically) while you go over every inch, in bright light. That way, you can hopefully get everything that may need to be address noted on a delivery punchlist for NM to handle. The last thing you need is the back-and-forth I have now on whether a paint failure is from something current or a previous problem finally rearing its ugly head.
Sorry, if I sound cynical. I truly do hope that you have a great experience and after checking everything, you find everything is perfect and nothing needs to be done!
Either way, enjoy the new ride. I'm sure it will be amazing!�
Aug 6, 2015
jlk Ah, I don't mind the cynicism. I'm just lucky to have you and others to start threads like this. It's good knowing what could go wrong, and I appreciate you keeping up to date.
I'll definitely post to here after I finally do take delivery.�
Aug 6, 2015
3mp_kwh Not cynical. "Wise". Odds are jlk will be fine, but realize Certification in many ways amounts to what you don't catch.�
Aug 9, 2015
MsElectric Certification is all good but when buying a used car part of the onus is on the person buying the used car to do the necessary due diligence.
What is really unreasonable in this case is that Tesla makes it almost impossible for a buyer to do the due diligence as they would be able to do when buying a car at a dealer. When considering a CPO car, no actual photos of the CPO car are shared, no service history is shared, no maintenance or repair work done on the car is shared. Also no CarFax is shared so you know how many past owners the car has had, when it went on service, and if the car has had any insurance claimed accident repairs. All the factors affect the value of the car. So customers are essentially buying these CPO cars based on blind trust and it is not a good policy.
At the least you can buy the CarFax on your own but you are out of luck for any of the car's past service and maintenance history that they refuse to share...�
Aug 9, 2015
Cyclone My CarFax has and continues to note no issues. It would have been nice to see provided automatically, but buying it ended up providing no background on my car other than a) bought and owned in NY by previous owner, and b) insurance didn't declare a loss on the vehicle. It did get inspected upon purchase and once a year later at 13k or so miles, but nothing shows up after that until I purchase the car a year after the last entry at 31k miles.�
Aug 10, 2015
tstafford In my experience buying several used Ferraris the best approach is a paint density sensor. I suspect you know this by now, but I thought I'd post for others who are watching this thread. I must admit I NEVER would have considered a PPI or the need for a paint density sensor on a CPO Tesla (or MB, BMW, Lexus, etc.). Your experience is saddening.
A little more - FWIW one has to take the sensor readings with a grain of salt as well. Ferrari, for example, has notoriously uneven paint thicknesses when the cars were right off the line. Therefore the sensor readings can be confusing unless the person analyzing them has a fair amount of experience. (Note: My knowledge of this is from the 355/360 era, things might be different with the newer models).�
Aug 10, 2015
MsElectric IMHO none of us are paint experts, unless we happen to have experience restoring cars or in that business.
My advice is anyone buying a used car, Tesla or not, do yourself a favor and take the car to a high end body shop and pay them for a Pre Purchase Inspection. They will analyze the paint and put the car in a lift and examine everything for you. All the more important given the saddening news that Cyclone was told if the past owner had used bondo or whatever and done a shoddy repair that it would be Cyclone's problem and that they will not stand behind the car they sold him. I am sure the vast majority of the cars are in great shape but why take the chance that you will get stuck with someone else's accident damage that might not have been fixed up properly?
For a certified car you should not have to do the PPI but apparently you do, based on Cyclone's experience.
Pull up the CarFax and then do the Pre Purchase Inspection at a body shop if you buy a CPO car.�
Aug 10, 2015
ev-soon Cyclone - more sympathy!
I find it hard to believe that Tesla can take this stand. The warranty suggests everything is covered - and given the wide-spread claim that they will not accept a car with any collision or panel repair, how could they supply a vehicle which had such a paint defect?
The answer would be that they original owner intentionally mislead Tesla (as they have to state whether repairs have been made in their trade-in process I am told).
Given that Tesla can then use such a find to get out of warranty issues - the question becomes, what is the value of the CPO?
I was just about to pull the trigger on a CPO. This whole thread had given me serious pause, especially as my need is a solid daily driver - days/weeks in and out of the shop (especially at my expense) were not in the purchase plan.
Also very nervous about buying out-of-state now, even though that is very attractive due to CO's rebate (which is valid if the vehicle has never been registered in CO).�
Aug 10, 2015
Cyclone Thank you!
Just a note, other than the actual cost of the paint job, I have not been out of pocket anything with this. They have given me loaners every time. And that is why I stress that I do not think this is a problem of my local service center, but policies that do not empower them to address the issues I've had to my satisfaction. For instance, working within the confines that the repaint was "my problem" to deal with, the Service Center went above and beyond. They worked with me so I could drop off my car with them, they provide me a loaner, and they ferry my car to the body shop and back. That was going above and beyond IMO, within the confines of the policy. Now, I think the policy should allow for exception cases such as mine so they could have simply said they are covering this repair, but I am able to see that my center is trying to do their best with their "tied hands."
And again, hopefully I'm just that "lucky" outlier.�
Aug 10, 2015
MsElectric I honestly see nothing that should preclude you from buying a CPO car if you plan to use it for 4 years and sell it before the warranty runs out because they refuse to sell an extended warranty for CPO cars. As long as you do a thorough pre purchase inspection at a high end body shop you are likely fine as the CPO warranty will cover you for 4 years. Unless I'm mistaken, the CPO warranty is pretty comprehensive, unlike the Extended warranty (ESA).
Based on Cyclone's experience though I certainly would never consider buying a CPO car sight unseen.
If you buy from out of state, you can always fly there, inspect the car, buy it and have a nice road trip back home�
Aug 10, 2015
3mp_kwh I feel exactly as you do. I spent the weekend putting pics together, and without spoiling what will be another bad-CPO thread I can add that, yes, thickness on Signature cars is both higher and more variable. Where mine wasn't painted, I got either .3mm - .4mm. On the newer metallic car, its .2mm all around. If you use 'mils', the spread widens (254 tenths of a milometer, vs. 1,000ths in one inch).�
Aug 11, 2015
ev-soon That was my original plan, but then I can'tell use a body's hop I know ... still I can'tell see me turning up the opportunity to get an MS - so I'll have to figure something out.�
Aug 12, 2015
drees I hate to point it out to you, but did you notice that the clear coat is flaking/peeling around the edge of the center cap on this wheel?
Minor issue, but I wouldn't expect that on a 2-3 year old car.�
Aug 15, 2015
MsElectric This is easy to solve. Wherever Tesla sells cars, there will surely be a high end body shop that works on higher end cars. You can always call a Mercedes r Porsche dealer in the area and ask what body shop they recommend.
I would pull up reviews for some of those body shops and call a couple of nearby ones about a "Pre Purchase Inspection" for a used car. This is a common service every body shop offers. It will cost $100-$200 and they will examine the paint all around your car and check for any potential repairs that might not have been done properly. They will also put the car up on a lift and inspect everything for you as well.
IMHO it is silly to buy a used car costing ~$60K or more without this very important crucial step of due diligence that takes all but 30 minutes.
In addition to that I would also pull up the CarFax and examine that. Lastly demand Tesla for the car's service records and maintenance history because it is silly to buy a used car without knowing the history of the car.�
Aug 15, 2015
tga Carfax is not the magic panacea. I bought a CPO'ed Porsche that probably shouldn't have been CPO'ed. It had Type 2 overrevs (ie, a blown downshift) and undisclosed repaired accident damage (probably as a result of said blown downshift). The Carfax was pristine.
In hindsight, I should have asked to see the overrev info in the ECU and had a PPI, but I assumed a CPO is flawless, right? But I don't worry about it. I've put a few hundred hours on the engine (it's fine), and the car is awesome, so I overlook the quirks.�
Aug 15, 2015
Cyclone The closest thing to the Porsche situation is that my drive unit was replaced. The car is significantly quieter as a result. Then again, I've only put 110 miles on it since it came back from the body shop two weeks ago. Got an ICE back in the garage now and the Tesla is collecting dust. Hard to drive an ICE again, but after the first 1,500 miles or so, I've gotten used to it.�
Aug 16, 2015
mrjedistud Cyclone. So sorry about your situation. I am thankful for your post. I was so close to pulling the trigger on a cpo p85+. The price was unbelievable and turns out there's a reason. The car had one accident and one additional repair that was not reported on carfax. Initially I thought that since tesla is certifying it everything should be back to factory spec and so I shouldn't worry too much about it. After your post unthinkingly wait a bit.�
Aug 16, 2015
tga Care to share the VIN so others stay away from it?�
Aug 16, 2015
MsElectric I agree but no one said Carfax is a magic panacea. I made it clear that before you buy any used car pulling up the CarFax should be a part of the basic due diligence. It will tell you when the car went into service so if you are buying a 2014 car it would be good to know if it is a January 2014 car or a December 2014 car. It will also let you know how many owners the car has had and if the car was bought brand new from the factory or as an inventory car. It will also shed some light on insurance reported accident damage.
Anyone buying a used car should augment the CarFax with a thorough pre purchase inspection at a reputable high end body shop. A body shop PPI would have likely revealed the accident damage that was repaired.
- - - Updated - - -
All the more reason why it is not a good idea to buy one of these CPO cars sight unseen. Always do a through PPI at a body shop after reviewing the CarFax. Did Tesla disclose the accident damage to you? Now that they know about the accident damage for sure will the be disclosing this information to someone else looking to buy the car?�
Aug 17, 2015
3mp_kwh It is, for some sellers. Clean = "It's had no Accidents", I heard. Really? These days, a clean Carfax is where the problems can start. A signature Tesla, that cost its owner the $20k (or was it 40k?) premium, is not a car you make an insurance claim on. It doesn't work that way for cars costing this much, or ones seeing the track (where the assumptions get much worse). If carfax can devalue it $20k-30k, than that is the out-of-pocket budget an owner will pay to keep that piece of paper clean.
RE: Porsche. Type 1 & 2s are the ones I understood do not cause damage. When I sold (personal sale), we took a snapshot of the "P-wiz" output, showing no over-revs. When I bought that CPO, the dealer I flew to had already sent me the over-rev report and I'd already researched and was ok with why the engine was out of the car (common rear main seal, per Carfax). Nothing hidden. No surprises. Having introduced many people to the track, on and off for the past 20 years, I was answering more questions about Tesla to a guy picking up wheels, just yesterday. Where I'm (constructively?) critical on TMC, I've only recently started to give both pro, and con, to people away from Tesla.�
Aug 18, 2015
mrjedistud VIN was 12676. In fairness it may still be fine. But I'd only want to buy it if I could actually see it.�
Aug 18, 2015
BoerumHill Not sure where to stick this; several threads on disappointing CPO experiences and/or concerns over the CPO program and lack of an extended warranty option. Since this thread still has legs I guess I'll drop it here.
The letter below was received today from Tesla in response to a couple emails I sent to [email�protected] and [email�protected]. In my August 10 and August 17 emails to the company I expressed a number of reservations about the CPO program:
- Lack of Extended Warranty option
- Access to Vehicle Service Records
- Ability to inspect vehicle before committing to an order
- Expressed disappointment with the knowledge base of the staff at the local gallery (West 25th St in Manhattan)
I also referenced/linked three different threads here at TMC: this one, Out Of Warranty Concerns About Tesla, and Thoughts About Tesla Warranty, CPO, Service & Other Policies.
Response:
First knee jerk response:
- There are no current 2012 CPO listings though in theory it's possible. But let's take it at face value: Tesla is comfortable with a warranty that covers a vehicle up to 6 years and up 80,000 miles - most CPO listings are presently either 2013 or 2014, and the mileage is rarely above 30K, though there was a Sig Red not long ago at 43K miles - however, Tesla is NOT comfortable with a warranty that goes out to 10 years and/or over 100K miles. It seems to me that is simply a matter of actuarial guesswork and pricing it appropriately. Offer different price points for vehicles that are 1, 2 or 3 years old. We are asking you to stand behind your product, or stop certifying and ship trade ins off to auction.
- CPO records can be viewed? That's not consistent with what we have seen reported here over and over again, but let's hope this is in fact the policy going forward.
- Reasonable response - many have inspected their cars and this isn't an issue for in market CPO listings. Its a bit dicey ordering an out of market CPO, though, given the disappointments a few folks here at TMC have had. This is a tough one for both Tesla and the buyer. I can appreciate they can't be shipping cars all over to be inspected/rejected/transferred or shipped back. At the same time, that limits my market to the 16 listings for New York (out of 330ish nationwide.)
He also provided me with his direct line and email.
Not sure how much this letter will influence my future buying behavior. I appreciate the acknowledgement; it's better than being ignored. Previously I wanted to buy a nicely optioned P85/P85+, but now I'm on the fence about whether I should get what I want or compromise to the safer choice of a new 85/90D. (ASIDE - I'm not asking for advice, just laying out where I am at in the process.)
Anyway, I thought others might find it insightful to read this.�
Aug 18, 2015
Cyclone 1. Interesting. One could buy a new car + extended warranty, drive 12k miles a year, and be covered 8 years/100k miles. That seems to go against the statement you received. That said, maybe that includes an accounting for the anyone at 8 years with only 100k miles could be an outlier and will either have low miles for 8 years, or run out at 100k miles prior to 8 years. But such outliers can be accounted for, as you say, by adjusting costs of the extended warranty.
2. Someone at Tesla reached out to me a couple weeks back about this thread. He is still looking into the details of my car and things are a bit up in the air about what is going to happen/not happen with my car. I explicitly asked him about this and he stated that it is Tesla Corporate Policy not to share the service history, even with the subsequent buyer. He indicated that this is a legal issue for Tesla in some territories and they made a unified policy across the U.S. for consistency. I strongly feel I should be able to see the service history of my car (with prior owner info obscured).
3. IMO, this is only a reasonable response if Tesla stands behind the car they are certifying. This thread and others have shown that is not the message Tesla is delivering to their customers. I have a four digit bill I had to pay to the body shop for the fix to my car. Such bills should not be the new owner's concern for problems from the prior owner.
---
Meanwhile, reliability on these "older" Teslas are a concern. 100 miles after getting my car back last time, my passenger front window either pops halfway up or no longer closes.�
Aug 18, 2015
BoerumHill Cyclone, maybe my letter reflects a shift in policy regarding viewing prior owner service records? I hope so as that would be a positive & reasonable change.�
Aug 18, 2015
Pollux I don't view the warranty issue as being equivalent to "stop certifying and ship trade ins off to auction". Warranty policies are significant business decisions. Resetting the warranty to 4 years / 50K miles seems appropriate for a CPO. Not being able to extend that warranty in my view doesn't equate to Tesla not standing behind its product. To extend a warranty by 4 years on a car that may already be 2 or 3 years old is a significant commitment.
To me, the real issue is that the quality of the CPO product is uneven, when Tesla seems to be saying implicitly (or maybe explicitly) that they are trying to raise the bar on CPO expectations. *That's* where the certify/no-certify-go-to-auction decision is critical.
But this is exactly where the rubber meets the road for a CPO program touted to raise the bar on expectations and being run by a company that is directly, itself, shuffling its inventories across geographies and making the entire inventory available for sale across the country. If Tesla wants this CPO program to be as exceptional as their new car buying experience, then they are going to have to (a) step up the standards and/or implementation of their CPO intake and reconditioning process AND (b) stand behind the product with a variety of remedies for defects that surface after the customer purchases the vehicle, such as (i) curing the defect, (ii) buying back the product and/or (iii) waiving shipping fees. Tesla wants the benefits of a nationwide inventory; it must also live with the costs of a nationwide inventory. IMHO.
Perhaps one of the most troubling aspects of these CPO stories is that they seem to be stories from good customers. Heck, we all know that there are bad customers. And the car business appears to bring out more customers (and sellers) acting in bad faith than many other businesses. But the CPO stories I've read so far strike me as being written by good customers trying to approach their problems reasonably. I wonder if the CPO side of Tesla is having trouble differentiating between the good customers who may have exacting standards but are behaving in good faith, and the bad customers just out to screw Tesla.
Alan
- - - Updated - - -
But... but.... you can get a car from the factory that has a leaky seal or a window problem or some other issue. And you've got a 4 year/50K mile warranty on your CPO. Isn't this exactly the kind of problem that warranties are meant for? It's a shame, and a pain in the ass to have to go back to get the car serviced, but at the end of the day, isn't this a regular issue?
Alan�
Aug 18, 2015
Max* That is what the warranty is for, I disagree with the nonchalant attitude in the post about the quality of the car. I feel like I had less issues in the first few years of ownership with my previous car than I do with the MS in the first couple months (I have a new one, not CPO).
Broken door handle
Unresponsive scroll wheel
Phantom errors from the parking sensors
Armrest disattached
etc.
I love the car, and hoping that the issues stop soon...�
Aug 18, 2015
Cyclone If you discount oil changes, regular alignment checks, and tire rotations on my last vehicle (Toyota 4Runner, bought new in 2006) and also discount any annual service on the Tesla (none yet for me), my Model S will now be in for warranty service more times in 3 months of ownership than the 4Runner did in 9 years of ownership - and the 4Runner has less rust on its brake rotors and calipers (though in all fairness, the rotors were resurfaced 2 years ago and the disc brakes replaced 1 (rear) - 2 (front) years ago.
At the moment, I got the 4Runner back and it is my daily driver again until the window gets fixed, the paint cures, and Xpel is applied. Thankfully, the 4Runner went to family in South Carolina, so we drove down and got it back a couple weeks ago while my car was serviced. Felt odd to be driving an ICE again, but nice to not worry about things as I drive around. Still prefer the Model S though, so I'll be happy to be driving it again in September.�
Aug 18, 2015
BoerumHill Whoa, brother...the CPO drove you back to ICE (albeit temporarily.) This saga just gets worse & worse.
Better days ahead.�
Aug 18, 2015
Cyclone Yup, but I've now tacked on about 1,500 miles on the 4Runner since getting it back, so I've gotten over the hump. I still am forgetting to turn it off until I get out of the seat and I really do miss built in Bluetooth. The Model S has gone out twice. Once for a Tesla Owners lunch about 9 days ago and then this past weekend in an EV parade (which I was still upset over this whole thing that I had a Volt and Leaf owner do the driving). It was at the end of the parade that the window wouldn't come up. Thankfully there wasn't any rain.
P.S. - Static Cling signs work great over Xpel. I made sure no signs were on the repainted panels.
�
Aug 18, 2015
Pollux Where does one obtain Static Cling signs?
Thanks,
Alan�
Aug 18, 2015
Cyclone I am unaffiliated with the company and do not get any referrals of anything, but I'll PM you the details just in case that's not kosher on TMC.�
Aug 18, 2015
BoerumHill Hey buddy - meant to acknowledge this earlier today but got busy @ work. This is an encouraging development. I know you're still in limbo but pulling for a good outcome for you here.�
Aug 22, 2015
neroden I have no idea what sort of "legal issue" this could be, but given that Tesla Legal is totally incompetent and has allowed Tesla to violate copyrights rampantly for over 2 years, I don't believe their claim that there's a "legal issue". I think it's purest ********.
What Tesla should do is to offer the owner all the service history *which Tesla has*. When buying the car back from the previous owner, the previous owner should sign a disclaimer allowing the service history to be retained and shared with a future owner, with name/contact information/license plate and other personally identifying information stripped. Tesla should give the service history to the new owner with a further disclaimer, stating that this only constitutes the service history *of which Tesla is aware*, and that Tesla cannot guarantee that the previous owner did not have other service done without telling Tesla.
I cannot think of any legal system under which this would be a problem.�
Aug 22, 2015
HankLloydRight
Dude, give it up already.�
Aug 22, 2015
ev-soon Juse want to thank BoerumHill for contacting Tesla and sharing the response. Clearly internal policy on service history is still confused - legal issue is BS, as other said that can be covered as part of the trade-in paperwork.�
Aug 23, 2015
MsElectric The previous owner's personal information can easily be redacted when disclosing the service and repair history of the car...�
Aug 23, 2015
StaceyS After reading this thread, I felt I should weigh in with our own CPO purchase.
We started looking at CPO cars through Tesla's website in May 2015 and found a few candidate cars on there that met our needs. We watched them vanish as they got purchased, but others would pop up. Finally we narrowed down on one that was located in Cleveland. The car had all of our required features, as well as a few extra features that were nice additions. It was a 2013 P85 (manufactured Feb 2013) with 17,000 miles on it. I contacted Tesla by phone and was given a direct contact point in Cleveland to discuss the car. The person was very helpful, and offered to help trade in our current car if we wanted (a 2011 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI). He didn't pressure us at all on the trade in, saying it was entirely a service to make the purchase of the Tesla more convenient. We weren't planning on trading in, and the quote they offered was a few thousand less than the price we got selling it locally.
I asked him to take photographs of the car, and gave him some specific areas that I would be concerned about, such as the front hood (for rock chips), driver's seat (for wear) and any damage that he could see. He quickly took a handful of very high resolution photos of the car, including photos of minor scratches on the metal trim on the inside of the drivers door and 2' long scratch down the passenger rear door and quarter panel. The scratch was deep, clearly down to metal in some places. He also took a photo of some very minor curb rash on 1 of the 21" wheels, which was interesting because the CPO listing showed the car with 19" wheels.
I spoke with him on the phone and asked him about the scratch, and if they could drop their price because of that. He said no, the price was based on the car in the condition it was in. He confirmed the car we were looking at had 21" wheels (despite the CPO listing), and said if that was a concern, they could easily swap those out for 19s. The rest of the car looked fine. He didn't indicate to me that Tesla was going to do anything to repair or replace the damage. He did tell us that while the delivery time frame would be determined after we paid our deposit, he thought it would headed our way within the week.
We put our deposit down in late May. It took almost exactly 4 weeks to deliver the car from Cleveland to us in Oregon (through the Portland Service Center). Tesla in fact shipped the car back to Fremont due to logistical efficiencies, and informed me they would be doing a full service on the car there before sending it to Portland.
When we finally went up to Portland for delivery, we found the scratch had been fully repaired. The car had those beautiful 21" wheels and the minor curb rash on the 1 wheel is still present (and when I say minor, its really minor), and the scuffs on the driver's door interior trim was still present, but our delivery specialist noted it and marked it for replacement (which is happening next week). The tires looked nearly new, they definitely did not have 17,000 miles on them! As I consider the tires to be the biggest/highest cost wear item on the Model S, I was very pleased to see this.
Our brake rotors have rusted, and look like the ones you originally posted. This is entirely normal though, and its not something I would have complained about. I actually feel a bit bad for Tesla having to replace your rotors because you complained about perfectly normal rust on them, but I do respect them for doing it in an effort to keep a customer happy. I may consider painting the non-wear surfaces of our rotors to prevent rust since the brakes are probably going to last a really long time as we've gotten the hang of 1 pedal driving.
Other damage or wear that I've found since taking delivery: There's scratches on the valance under the front chin of the car, most likely from steep driveway entries or parking lot curbs, and there's some similar scuffs on the fins beneath the car behind the rear wheels too. There was some make up or lipstick smudges on the suede headliner, some grime between the armrests where its hard to reach (we were able to clean those ourselves) and the UMC has some scuffs on the charge brick, the wall plug and the car plug. None of these are things I would complain about from a car that has 17,000 miles on it. Overall, I found the car to be in excellent condition, and it was in better condition than I was expecting.
We have had no issues with the car at all except for 1: the last OTA update failed to install. I worked with Tesla for about a week remotely and they determined it is a hardware issue with our center display system. The car functions just fine, but I occasionally get "Update unsuccessful" notifications on my Tesla app, there's a service notice in the dash, and the car reports a charging rate of 500 mi/hr when plugged in to my 120v outlets. And despite claiming the 500 mi/hr rate, I don't have 120v, 1,250 amp plugs! I'm taking the car to the Portland Service Center this coming week for this to be fixed (they are replacing the center display system), the interior door panel to be replaced and they are going to be upgrading the main pack contactors.
Overall, I am very happy with both the car and Tesla's service. This is by far the most expensive car I've ever owned, so maybe my expectations are lower than someone coming from the higher end auto experience. I know a few others who have purchased new Model Ss and it does not appear that Tesla's customer service to me as a CPO owner is any different than theirs as a brand new owner. My previous dealership purchase/service experience was very good (VW, but our local dealer sold VW, Audi, Porsche and BMW). Their service was detailed, thorough and considerate, and they treated me and my car well. Before that I dealt with a local Volvo dealer and they treated me and my Volvo very poorly.�
Aug 23, 2015
HankLloydRight While it's there, and the center console being replaced, you may want to ask or, or confirm that, the center console unit has the latest LTE upgrade. They are charging $500 for the job, but considering they're already replacing the center console, you may be able to get away for just the cost of parts, and that's assuming the new center console is not LTE upgraded.�
Aug 23, 2015
StaceyS I spoke with them about that. The LTE upgrade is available to do, but it will be $500 for the upgrade, and there's no discount due to the dash being apart. They said it was a package upgrade, they couldn't just break out the parts at a lower price. I'm hoping for the outside chance that the new console system just has it, but we'll see. We live out in the sticks, data coverage is pretty spotty, bad enough that we rarely listen to the internet radio and we're used to driving through a featureless green field on the nav system. I don't see the LTE module helping that much.�
Aug 24, 2015
3mp_kwh The treatment is nice. What might have been missing on a few cars was a more thorough screen. I think Tesla is working harder to fix that. If they were being cheap, it would have shown up a lot more frequently. Delivering new cars isn't easy, but that QC process has had a lot more time to bake-in.�
Aug 26, 2015
KJD I think some people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to buying used cars. A CPO car is a used car by the way. Some people take care of their cars, but most people really do not take good care of their cars.
You get a good discount on purchase price, but that discount comes with some risk. For me it worked out great.
If you want a car that is perfect in every way, then you should skip the used market and just pay the money for a new car.�
Aug 26, 2015
taurusking That is a bummer...I wish Tesla did not charge you $500..I can understand what you are saying though...I drive mostly on the country side and I don't need a LTE upgrade.�
Aug 26, 2015
MsElectric You could always get around the LTE issue by activating the WIFI hotspot feature on your phone and your car gets LTE Internet right away...�
Aug 26, 2015
HankLloydRight I just completed a 1500 mile r/t trip, and I tried that several times. It works, and the connection is faster, but it never stays connected, it drops back to 3G pretty quickly (within 10-15 minutes). Now this might be a function of my iPhone 5, or the Tesla wi-fi stack, or both. If it were more stable, I'd use it all the time, but it's too problematic to worry about constantly re-connecting to the wi-fi network to get LTE speeds. So I just gave up using this method.�
Aug 26, 2015
taurusking @MsElectric
So this works only if the phone is able to get 4G LTE service right? I drive on country side and most of them are just 3G.�
Aug 26, 2015
MsElectric Yup, without a 4G signal whether it is built in 4G from the car or via a WIFI hotspot on your phone you are out of luck...
- - - Updated - - -
Maybe it has to do with the shielding in the car (windshield glass etc.,) that also interferes with EZPass type transponders? You may need to keep the windows and the sunroof open for best 4G reception for your phone :biggrin:�
Aug 26, 2015
Roadrunner13 I was never impressed with the iPhone5 hotspot capability, so I'd first blame that rather than the car's wifi stack.
The iPhone 6 was a net improvement but I don't know if we need to thank the new hardware or the later iOS version...
I didn't go back to try the latest iOS with the 'old' phone!�
Aug 27, 2015
HankLloydRight
No, it wasn't the phone losing LTE connection, it was the car not being able to hold a stable Wi-fi connection to the wi-fi hotspot my phone was providing inside the car. The LTE connection was stable and solid.�
Aug 27, 2015
MsElectric Maybe the WIFI antenna is outside the car? Isn't it supposed to be on the side view mirror or something like that?�
Sep 1, 2015
SmartElectric Subject : Experience with Tesla service.
Today, Tesla came to our house at 8 AM and dropped off a loaner vehicle, and drove away with our CPO Tesla Model S85. They added the 85 badge to the back trunk, fixed a wind shield wiper issue (they were hitting too hard on the down stroke), checked on all maintenance items and cleaned and detailed the vehicle. At 5 PM they returned the car to our house and picked up the loaner.
Positives:
1. Having door to door service even though I am the second owner of the vehicle is a pleasant and welcome surprise.
2. There was no cost. The service person even refused a tip!
3. The P85 was excellent for giving rocket/test rides at work. Only two of 10 people got sick from the full throttle launches (on private property so there was no chance of a ticket). Seriously, actually sick.
4. The P85 was more car than I was expecting. I was able to even get it to "bunny hop" on one launch with the car fully loaded with passengers. I'm going to ask more about this hop, as I only experienced similar behaviour in my 1996 Camaro Z28, namely, that the car "hooks up" and then looses enough traction that when a fraction of a second later it hooks up again, the experience is "violent" (and amazing), basically thrown back in the seat very strongly.
5. Tesla did exactly what they promised on the service, and the loaner experience was extremely convenient.
6. The P85 had the "auto pilot" hardware, so I was able to test/demonstrate the radar cruise control, the lane departure warning and parking sensors and camera features. Very cool, my wife was a big fan of these newer safety features.
What I learned:
1. I am very happy with our 85, and the P85 "cured" me of wanting any more (for now). Next time, I'd like to try a dual motor AWD car to see how that handles.
2. Everyone who experiences the car is amazed, even those who are not "car people", and even one sceptic was "converted".
3. The P85 center display had more "lag" than our 85. It's possible that the fact I periodically (weekly) "reboot" our 85 may help reduce lag/delays on the screen. Our 85 never lags.
4. While our 85 is one year older, and driven 30000 km more than the newer more powerful loaner, the driving experience is very similar, and both cars were virtually identical to drive "normally".
Cheers!�
Sep 1, 2015
clarkbariowa
Holy Hell! You found the unicorn! P85 with Autopilot. Someone snatch that thing up now!!! :scared:�
Sep 1, 2015
SmartElectric That's what I called it too! :tongue:
Honestly, the P85 while fast off the mark, it really didn't have the kind of driving dynamics I was expecting, the thrust was there, but the mid-corner "shimmy" on throttle made me feel like I was back in 1996 with a 300HP untamed Z28, whereas my 85 feels more tame in that situation. I can only imagine how good the AWD "D" models feel. My wife was happy that the loaner cured me of my angst over not getting the P85 CPO that was $8K more than our CPO 85. Then again the loaner had well used 21" tires, and my CPO has brand new 19" (thanks Tesla!), so the grip difference could be explained right there.
Oh, the autopilot hardware is a selling feature to my wife, she loved it, especially lane keeping and radar cruise, she didn't find the speed limit sign warnings very useful (HA!).�
Sep 1, 2015
Cyclone Charotte has twice furnished me a Black P85 with Autopilot with 21" wheels, cool suspension, and rear facing seats. Nice car!�
Sep 2, 2015
Max* After getting the car (70D) I had a very small sliver of gear envy and that maybe I should've gotten the 85D for more speed (don't really need the range).
I had a P85+ loaner while my 70D was in for some stuff. After a day with the P85+, I decided I don't need the speed either. It's a cool party trick, but so glad I didn't spend the extra cash on the 85D.�
Sep 3, 2015
Pollux People have reported that a lot of the goodness of the "+" handling option got rolled into the later P85s, which probably includes yours.
That said, my P85+ doesn't demonstrate the problem you report. I am in love with the handling of this vehicle.
I suspect you'd feel similarly about a P85D.
Also, re your "bunny hop" -- I've noticed that as I put more wear on my tires, the traction control has to work harder if I launch. I wonder about your tread. Oh, and I'm using staggered 21" PS2s. Based on my experiences with P85s with and without the 21s, I'd say the tires make a big difference in both of the situations you describe.
Alan
�
Sep 3, 2015
3mp_kwh That VIN was right around the time the sub-frame was updated (late Q1 '13). The "+", with more firm lower control arm bushings, came along just after and was followed by all MS getting that frame and arms (per Lola). If the other P you drove was early/pre Q1, that would explain some things. I shopped a couple ~13xxx P's, that still didn't really like throttle inputs mid-turn. IMO, the P85+ (thanks, Pollux) has more than just the 265's going for it. Whether it is thicker sways, etc., I don't know.�
Sep 3, 2015
Cyclone Oh, I'm a P078xx. Would that mean my S has the improved sub-frame and control arms? Or did that propagation only go to the Ps?�
Sep 3, 2015
qwk The P+ lower arms never made it to the non P+ cars. This is a myth. The P+ LCA bushings are recessed on both sides.�
Sep 3, 2015
HankLloydRight That's what I thought, but wasn't sure. Thanks for the confirmation.
If they did migrate the P85+ suspension to non-P+ cars, then the P85+ package was only offering slightly wider rear wheels and tires. Pretty expensive for a $10k upgrade.�
Sep 4, 2015
Cyclone The exciting day is finally at hand! Woke up this morning to a great notification on my computer! My baby goes in to get the XPel reapplied and its battery reinstalled next week, so then I'm all is left is to get the NEMA 14-50 installed in the garage. Looking forward to getting back into the EVs. I'll have to thank the service crew when I stop by the store soon (I need to buy one of those gray Tesla hats before NDEW since I seem to be the only owner without one).
�
Sep 4, 2015
Max* I see your mood improved wrt Tesla?
Also, I never got an owners hat. Not that I would wear it anyways�
Sep 4, 2015
Cyclone Let's not go there. I paid out of pocket for the repair and that bothers me, but I'm hoping being able to drive the car again will help put this in the rear view mirror and let the bad memories fade.�
Sep 4, 2015
Drucifer Well, at least the clock has run out on the curing process. You are getting much closer...fingers crossed.�
Sep 4, 2015
Cyclone It could have been worse. While the Volt and Leaf owner drove my S in the last parade, it could have failed and you would have had to push us rather than passing out water from my trunk!
BTW, I will put the static clings back up on my car for the NDEW event and hopefully at C&C tomorrow, we can work out an unofficial parade route for all the EVs to "show off" around town.�
Sep 4, 2015
ModelX Cyclone, I am glad you are almost back in your car-and hope this becomes a distant bad memory asap!�
Sep 4, 2015
StaceyS I wanted to chime in here again to follow up on my recent service that I mentioned in my previous post on this thread (Page 9). Something came up during the service which was unexpected, but I feel Tesla did their best in responding to it.
First off, the service folks were great. I arrived with my car at 8:00am. On my 180 mile drive over, I had a low tire pressure light come on. I pulled into a gas station about 10 miles after the light came on and checked each tire pressure with my pressure stick. The air compressor at the station wanted 3 circular metal discs to operate (I think they're called quarters), which I didn't have, and I figured the tire pressures were ok enough to make it the remaining 40 or so miles of Interstate to the service center (the lowest was 35 psi). The check in was smooth, and they had an S85 available to me for my 2 day loan period. It was charged to the full daily limit, which was more than enough range for me to handle the job runs I needed to make that day and make it to the Woodburn Supercharger to launch me over the pass and back to Bend for the night.
Tesla called the next day and said they ended up doing a bunch more warranty work in addition to the things they had mentioned previously, but that they had also checked out my tires/wheels and found a bubble on the right rear tire, and both right side wheels were bent. They noted that both the front and rear wheels showed curb rash (the rear wheel I mentioned had the rash on it when we picked it up. The front wheel also had a tiny bit of rash, but again, it was so little, maybe about 1" of a few nicks that I discounted it as serious damage), and assumed we had hit something.
This was all surprising to me, as we've only had the car for 2 months, driven it about 2,000 miles and were now looking at about $1400 in replacement wheels and tire. We've driven the car very carefully and I know we haven't hit anything. Most of the miles have been long distance. I explained that the damage shown on the rims were exactly the same as when we picked the car up. They went through the records of the car and were able to confirm that they had replaced the tires before selling the car, but that there had been no damage to the wheels. They said the shipping receipts showed no damage at any point either. Since I wasn't home, I couldn't check our delivery documents, but I was completely positive the scuffs had been on the wheels the day we first saw the car. Tesla said they would review their records again and get back to me.
When they called back, they confirmed that all of their paperwork showed no damage before they handed the car over, BUT they offered me a deal: If I bought a new rear tire, they would provide 2 new wheels. I knew that if my delivery documentation did not have that damage shown, it was basically my word against theirs, and their records showed no damage. So if push came to shove, I'd have to replace everything on my dime. Also, I was already in Portland with their loaner and pretty much needed to pick my car up at the end of the day. So I agreed. I paid for the new tire ($375), and both scuffed/bent wheels were replaced with brand new.
When I got home, I checked our delivery documents. There was actually no condition report in our documents at all, and nowhere in our documents did we make any comment about the wheel scuffs. I never mentioned the chin scratches to them either, because again, I'm buying a used car, I sort of expected the "As-Is, Where-Is" sort of deal.
Tesla could have just said no, we've got documents that say the car was perfect when we gave it to you (and they did actually say the wheels were bent enough to where they could not let the car go with them on there, and no, I never felt any issue when driving). But they did make an offer, and I felt it was more than fair. As much as I didn't like having to pay $375 for a new tire, I recognize that it could have been much more and that Tesla went out of their way to find a solution.
If this had been a brand new car, I would have noted every little speck and gone over and under the car in fine detail. In hindsight, I wish I had been more thorough in our initial inspection, or at the very least, pointed out every bit of visible damage just to note it, not necessarily expecting Tesla to fix it.�
Sep 4, 2015
MsElectric Could the damage to the wheels you are talking about be caused by you driving 40 miles with underinflated tires?
If the tire/wheel damage was caused due to underinflated tires that is your responsibly.
Seems Tesla is being reasonable in this case trying to work out something reasonable with you.�
Sep 4, 2015
StaceyS No. As my first post on this thread said (before I even took the car to the service center), the visible damage to the wheels was there when we got the car. I don't know what the tire pressure was when I started the trip to the service center, and I don't know what the pressure was when we got the car.
And I agree completely, if damage occurs because my tires were under-inflated, that would of course be my responsibility.
Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining about Tesla at all. I think they went above and beyond what they needed to.
I am very happy that Tesla gave me the benefit of doubt in this. Other than my original post on this thread stating the damage to my wheels was on the car when we got it (dated before I took the car to the service center), I really have no proof the damage WAS there when we got the car. Tesla had no requirement to offer me anything, they did so specifically to help me out and keep me happy. I really appreciate their effort, and that's why I took them up on their offer even though I know the damage had always been there.
If I had a piece of paper that showed the damage was there the day I got the car, I would have sent that to the service center and asked for my $375 back. I don't have that, and other than a post on an internet forum, I've got nothing. Tesla bought me 2 wheels and I stepped up and bought myself a tire. Problem solved. I'm happy. I'm not asking them for anything.�
Sep 5, 2015
Pollux And financially, didn't Tesla take most of the hit (at least at list prices)? Wouldn't the wheels have cost significantly more than $375?
Thanks,
Alan
P.S. And @Stacey@, I definitely understand that you're not complaining! Your posts seem very reasonable to me. I'm just seeking confirmation that not only did Tesla try to help, but that in the process of helping their proposed solution involved more of "their" dollars than yours.
�
Sep 5, 2015
StaceyS Yes, completely. This is exactly why I took about 5 seconds of thought before accepting their offer on the phone. They went above and beyond. Yes, one could argue that their 21" wheels don't cost them what they cost me, but I don't get their cost. For me, I got 2 brand new wheels and a new rear tire for $375.
I am curious as to exactly how the wheels got bent. If the rim scuffs were indicative of the bent wheels, I'm speculating that the damage happened either during transport and was overlooked, or it happened between arrival and delivery, and was overlooked. (The service center was swamped with deliveries, it was the end of the quarter.) If the rim scuffs had nothing to do with the bent wheels, and the bends happened during our ownership, then I will get rid of these 21" wheels ASAP, because we have been ultra careful. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a way to know. My plan at the moment is to be hyper aware while driving, and watch our tire pressures like a hawk...�
Sep 21, 2015
socalty Hi everyone,
I ordered a P85+ CPO car from the SF bay area and it was shipped to my local service center, Costa Mesa, for prep and delivery. Like many of you, I started reading this forum while waiting for delivery (delivery this Wednesday..can't wait!). The 2 or 3 CPO paint issue threads on this forum has me concerned even though the carfax and autocheck are clean. I spoke to the DS today asking if I can get a PPI at a body shop nearby and she said that they do not allow the cars to leave the premises before delivery for PPIs or anything else. She tried to reassure me that they do not allow any cars with major body work, major paintwork, etc. into the program nor has she ever heard of instances where CPO customers had any paint issues. Thanks to this forum, I provided her with some examples.
Bottom line: She's checking with her manager whether I can have someone come on premises to inspect it instead (and hopefully be able to have it raised on a lift too), but it might be tough for me to find someone to come to their service center. I also stated that if they don't CPO cars with any major paintwork, body work, etc., they should have no problem noting it on the due bill as a condition of sale. She's checking into that as well.
Has anyone been able to get a PPI for their CPO car at a body shop? If so, what was the procedure? I'm hoping my DS is wrong about the offsite PPI policy.�
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