Mar 22, 2013
riceuguy (Cross-post from Tesla site)
If you view the source of the available service options page, you'll see this!
Connectivity + Unlimited 3G
This month
Recurs at $30 each month
Payments begin 4/7/2013
$30
Which implies (and says!) $30/mo. starting April 7 for unlimited 3G. Mystery solved?!�
Mar 22, 2013
highedu $30/month is steep since most of what people use the 3g for is the maps, music, and perhaps a small amount of web browsing. On top of all the other charges (service plan, warranty, etc) its starting to add up.
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Any we are suppose to get 90 days of free service, so cant imagine having to start paying in April when i received the car in late February.�
Mar 22, 2013
andrewket 3G Pricing - Semi-Official
I agree. $30 is too much considering the current restrictions (no HTML5 and video) and the fact it's 3G and not 4G or LTE. I pay less for unlimited LTE on my iPhone.�
Mar 22, 2013
markb1 It's steep, for sure. But it's the same price for the 3GB plan for iPad from AT&T. However, the iPad 250MB plan is $15, and with the AT&T Mobile Share plan, it only costs $10 to add an iPad.�
Mar 22, 2013
scriptacus $30 is more than I'd like to pay, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to me. Unlimited plans range from $40-60/mo from what I can see... and that's attached to a phone plan when they can lower the cost due to bundled services.�
Mar 22, 2013
markb1 I'm not finding this in the HTML source code. Has it been removed, already? Or am I not looking in the right place? (Tesla Service | Tesla Motors)
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Nevermind, I found it:
https://www.teslamotors.com/servicesignup/start
Looks like you can purchase the service plans and extended warranty, now.�
Mar 22, 2013
SigGuy I'm happy to pay what things are worth, even when they're expensive which is why I happily bought a $100K Tesla.
But I think $30 is a lot for what it A) really slow service and B) Doesn't serve much function. I pay that for data on my phone but for that I easily get my email, updates, web browse, play games, listen to music and podcasts... on and on.
The 3G in the Tesla is hardly useable for web browsing which isn't something I would often do in my car if it did work well. There is no text or email ability-- there is music but it's badly hampered (see threads on Slacker in the Tesla). I guess what I'm saying is that there isn't much to get excited about in having a 3G enabled car and to the extent its useful, it doesn't work very well. Hard to justify $30 a month for something that doesn't work well and has low utility.�
Mar 22, 2013
tdiggity Don't blame Tesla. This is AT&T's idiotic pricing per device. AT&T doesn't want to figure out a person with many devices plan because that would mean they'd lose revenue.
Hopefully they enable tethering at the same time so that you can opt to tether to your phone if you don't want to pay the AT&T 30/month price.�
Mar 22, 2013
qwk Not to mention that AT&T 3G coverage is sad at best. Major cities only.�
Mar 22, 2013
jp158 I believe that Tesla/Musk would be smart to have this service remain on all vehicles for unlimited of time! Protential buyers would fine this additional cost plus the cost of the car, adding bigger battery pack, and service contract over the top. Don't drain the savings of our gasoline........ Easy does it Tesla!
Thanks
Starting to remove the Tesla Grin customer�
Mar 22, 2013
shady I wonder if we'll also have to pay for Slacker. I'm a Rhapsody subscriber, and really don't want to have to pay for another service if I can help it.�
Mar 22, 2013
DrComputer If you look at other manufacturers data services for their cars they are no less expensive and offer less functionality (ie Lexus Enform)�
Mar 22, 2013
cloroxbb I would just use my iPhone as a hotspot for the Tesla in that case. I highly doubt its going to do much to my datacap. Plus I get hotspot use for free because Im on a family plan. It would cost less for me to just up my data by 2GB if I even needed to.�
Mar 22, 2013
dennis25 what functions would we lose if we chose not to buy this service?�
Mar 22, 2013
BlkCld I can picture the thread on here already. How to unlock and use a t-mobile, H2O or other sim. Hmm is there a sim card hidden away somewhere? Anybody know?
3G on such a technically advanced car is a sin. To pay $30 for 3G is just salt in the wound.
LTE may be worth it but 3G. No thanks. Maybe $5. $10 at most.
Besides without it would Tesla still have access to data at their whim? How about software updates? That would mean having to go to the service center if you didn't buy the 3G unless there is a way via wifi. Sorry I am still awaiting mine and don't know that answer.�
Mar 22, 2013
cloroxbb Anything requiring the internet to update. Google Maps, Slacker Radio, Internet Browser, Updates, using the phone app...
Of course when they update and allow Wifi connections, you wont be totally SOL.�
Mar 22, 2013
Puyallup Bill Is WiFi connectivity in the works? If so, it will be a no brainer for me - drop 3G.�
Mar 22, 2013
steve841 I agree with the majority here... 3G wouldn't even be worth while at $10 a month ...
Give me the ability to use my wifi hotspot and activate those promised items before you (Tesla) decide to shoot yourself in the proverbial foot with feeing your customers to complete dissatisfaction .....just a thought.�
Mar 22, 2013
Nikoli $30 is a joke for the slow 3G. I might pay $10 a month for 4G, might. But I have free tethering and unlimited 4G from Tmobile.�
Mar 22, 2013
Stoneymonster Nope. Not giving AT&T that much more per month. Wifi for me. Why do car makers make the SIM hidden?
Why do they care who provides service? I'd much prefer to shop for my own (possibly pre-paid) plan and
drop a SIM in. If they are going to accept WIFI tethering, they are already tacitly accepting internet service
outside their control.�
Mar 22, 2013
Panacea I agree with SigGuy. Please stop nickel and diming us Tesla, it is becoming a tad distasteful. As early adopters, we agree to be guinea pigs as the car and the company matures. That should count for something.
�
Mar 22, 2013
andrewket In earlier threads, the thought was that if you buy the service plan, Tesla will maintain a 3G connection to the car no matter what for telemetry, software updates, and maybe access for the mobile app. The data plan would be for the web browser, slacker, etc. If that's the case, then I likely won't get the data plan, and will hopefully use my phone as a hotspot for this functionality when I'm in the car. If you can't use the app via Tesla's connection, then I will be really torn. It would be nice to be able to preheat, etc., when parked away from home and using a phone as a hotspot won't work if your phone is in your pocket away from the car. For those of you on family plans it might be cheaper to add a hotspot and just leave it on all the time in the car.�
Mar 22, 2013
metafor Oh well. I guess I won't be using the built-in 3G service. On a separate note, is tethering via bluetooth possible? I know tethering via USB is but I'd rather not have to take my phone out of my pocket and plug it in every time I get in the car....�
Mar 22, 2013
andrewket I think Tesla's logic here is that they need the wireless connection to properly provide service. Software updates, remote access for logs, etc. If you give the customer access to the SIM card then they can't guarantee that they will have this access. They made a deal with ATT, and we as the customer can't interfere with that.
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Tesla has publicly stated that the car will supporting tethering via Wi-Fi. Nothing about BT.�
Mar 22, 2013
v12 to 12v We shouldn't losing be losing our firmware updates as it should be included as a part of our service.
$30 is WAY too much for 3G. It sounds like Tesla needs to find a different provider.
I used 3G for Slacker, but I learned that the service is limited and not upgradable to "Prime". Pandora isn't available. I used 3G for internet radio, once or twice. I've never used the browser. The phone app never worked properly with my phone.
Without 3G you can still use the GPS to determine your location, I believe. It worked when our 3G was out of service due to an antenna malfunction.
You will lose Google traffic maps. I stopped using navigation because it sent me on too many wild goose chases.
Time to start ripping more DVDa's and BluRay audio discs and call it good.�
Mar 22, 2013
jomo25 Its not official, so this is only an unofficial rant. But I will say $30 is way too excessive. Just like $21 shipping for a simple adapter. This is not going to reflect well.
As for Lexus' (or other companies and their charges), the service can simply be declined. For the MS, it's harder to do so because of how it is required (at this point) for firmware updates, sending logs to Tesla, usage of the mobile app. The Volt comes with 3 yrs of OnStar to support the mobile app functions.
WiFi really needs to be enabled and soon.�
Mar 22, 2013
joefee How about �free for the life of the car� for Sig�s to offset the $5K SIG TAX!�
Mar 22, 2013
vetboy45 I am actually finding this to be a little amusing. Are you seriously this upset about the $30 price for the 3G service? If you can afford the car, another $30 is really not a big deal. I'm more upset that there is only 3G than I am about the cost. It would be nice to have faster service but in the Seattle area, at least for me, the 3G service has been pretty good. No dropouts, just a few slow loading screens. I'm never against saving money but .....�
Mar 22, 2013
v12 to 12v A Signature Performance for $100k is a good value to me.
$30 for G3 is not.
$30 a month is about the same as what I pay for the electricity to run my car.�
Mar 22, 2013
steve841 Quite simply, YES. Tesla advertised the Model S as nearly maintenance free .... then comes a required $600 annual service. Now, outdated cell technology at a premium price?
It's more about what we early adopters were sold vs. what we are now finding out .... So, if true, a major, major disappointment !�
Mar 22, 2013
ckessel I'd pay $10/month for what little it's used for, but $30 has no value to me. The only thing I'll miss is google maps.�
Mar 22, 2013
Stoneymonster Hey, I spent a lot on a car, so I should feel good about getting ripped off left and right? Is that the logic? Oh well, I'll just go fuel my BBQ with $50 bills I guess then because why not?�
Mar 22, 2013
steve841 Now thats what I was trying to say...�
Mar 22, 2013
kendallpb Expecting unlimited free internet for life with your car seems very unreasonable to me.
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You don't "have to" pay for anything. Slacker is a free trial--that's always been known. If you don't want it, don't pay for it once the trial runs out. I don't plan to; I use my iPod and FM and have no need of Slacker. It's a nice thing to play with during the trial, but that's all it is to me.�
Mar 22, 2013
hershey101 I disagree. If I'm paying TSLA $116,000 for a Model S, and they have 25% GM then they can easily take the $2000 hit and give me free 3G connectivity for 7 yrs.�
Mar 22, 2013
yobigd20 They need to support wifi. That way I can leave my verizon 4G LTE hotspot plugged into the car and always on. $10/month. much cheaper, much faster. I don't want to pay $30/month for crap age old technology.�
Mar 22, 2013
kevincwelch It's not the cost; it's the value. I think that's what most people would argue.
If the internet connection fee is $30/m, and this covers the cost of an out of date and slow browser, access to only Slacker and internet radio, and all this at blazing 3G speeds (I recorded just under 400 kbps the other day), then it's a ripoff.
I'm also a little miffed that Tesla hasn't enabled my hard drive storage that I paid for as well as enabled Wi-Fi.
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Mar 22, 2013
stevezzzz We always knew this 'free lunch' would come to an end. But $30/mo for poor 3G connectivity is just not value for money.�
Mar 22, 2013
vetboy45 Ok. I can understand the "value" argument. It just seems that the response is out of proportion to the problem. Usually when someone makes a big deal about something that is rather minor, it's not about the thing that sets them off, it's something else. So what is everyone really upset about? Has Tesla done something that makes this fee seem to be part of a pattern of "nickle and diming" us? Would everyone be happy if the fee were for 4G or LTE instead?�
Mar 22, 2013
MikeC I was expecting it to be $20/month for 3G. $30/month for LTE would be fair. The big question to me is whether the app requires 3G. I figure anything else I'll only need when I'm in my car with my phone, and it can be tethered.
I think people's annoyance has more to do with disgruntlement with data plans (and particularly ATT) moreso than with Tesla. I switched to Verizon last year and have been much more satisfied - what I'm annoyed about with Tesla is being forced to go back to the dark side.�
Mar 22, 2013
jkirkebo Wow, that is some slow 3G. I just ran a speedtest on my 3G equipped iPad2 here in Norway and got 5.91Mbit/s download speed. Netflix streams in great quality most places I go.�
Mar 22, 2013
kevincwelch I think part of it is the general -- not universal -- feeling that Tesla communicates poorly and has introduced one fee after another (the nickel and dime argument).
The other argument is that the $30 3G connection just isn't worth it.
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Mar 22, 2013
kevincwelch I know. It's terrible. This was from the rooftop of a parking garage in the Chicago area. I think it's just very congested.
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Mar 22, 2013
bonnie They've always been clear that there would be a fee. Everyone lucked out with free service until they were able to negotiate a price with a carrier and announce it -- this looks more like 'passing the price on' than nickel and diming.
Another response would be 'well, it was great we had it free for awhile, but I don't think it's worth paying for so I won't'.�
Mar 22, 2013
carrerascott We don't have good 3G coverage where we live out in the boonies, can't get a reliable connection to Slacker or Internet radio until in town. That said, I really would hate to give up the Google maps feature.... (which also drops out when we're out in the boonies of course...)�
Mar 22, 2013
bonnie Reasonable response.�
Mar 22, 2013
jomo25 3G Pricing - Semi-Official
Most people who can afford a $100k car aren't generally stupid with their money. Sorry $30 for 3G service that probably uses far less than 1GB of bandwidth per month is just stupid.�
Mar 22, 2013
AnOutsider I agree with most sentiments here, but I'll save full outrage for official announcement and clarification on how tethering and the app will work with and without (even with tethering you're screwed on app usage unless you always leave the hotspot on in the car).�
Mar 22, 2013
Tommy I think perhaps Tesla sent up the proverbial "trial balloon" based on the manner the service fee was uncovered. The balloon wasn't well received, so maybe the official announcement will be at a lower cost.�
Mar 22, 2013
carrerascott Wonder if for those of us on AT&T family plans, if there's a way to add the Tesla to our account as another "device" -- which would be $10/mo under our plan...�
Mar 22, 2013
kevincwelch You're saying nothing new, Bonnie. I'm sure only a few thought it would be free.
"Passing the price," "nickel and diming," "ripping us off" -- call it what you will.
Unfortunately, Tesla hasn't announced any plans to enable Wi-Fi. So, we have one option at this point: pay an unreasonable price for lackluster 3G performance with limited capability.
Sent via Tapatalk.�
Mar 22, 2013
Lloyd I would prefer to tether to my verizon phone as I have unlimited data with them.�
Mar 22, 2013
badgerlake I agree with the general sentiment of this thread and hope Tesla wakes up and takes notice to this real or perceived nickel and dime'ing. Why not start charging for supercharging, at least it will provide a mechanism to control usage when they start to get congested. Better model to make back some money (bad for the current PR campaigns tho), if that is what they are trying to do.
I love the car and experience so far...please Tesla don't taint it.�
Mar 22, 2013
yobigd20 that's the idea. I used to use my wifi hotspot, but then after I got the iphone 5, I just tether my laptop to my phone now. my wifi hotspot is useless to me and I don't use it anymore, so I would prefer to leave it in the car always on. all problems solved.�
Mar 22, 2013
SFOTurtle Question: Perhaps I'm comparing apples to oranges (but I think not) --- if I paid $3750 for the tech package, and that includes seven years of map updates for FREE, and I elect not to pay $30/month for 3G, how is Tesla going to provide the free map updates to me at no cost to me?�
Mar 23, 2013
brianman At the service center, or via ranger visit.�
Mar 23, 2013
Bobby __
All great points. They are crazy to bring up a hint of monthly costs until they have a 4G LTE solution for the car. The 3G is more than a little ironic, given the technology builtr into this car. It would also be much smarter to incorporate a cost/sinking fund (i.e., upfront into the model S) that would enable Tesla to offer a free data connection for the life of the car.
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VIN7403 | Ordered 12/24/12 | Finalized 02/21/13w\ Mar/April Estimate | Delivery 03/27-4/7
85kWhPerformance | Blue | Pano Roof | Tan Leather | Carbon Fiber Decor | 21" GreyWheels | Pano Roof | Tech Pkg | Sound Studio | Air Suspension | CF Spoiler |Parcel Shelf | Twin Chargers | HPWC
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Mar 23, 2013
sp4rk They must have pulled it ... I see nothing in the source code ... however ...
This is just that ... SOURCE CODE!!!�
Mar 23, 2013
ddruz There have been a lot of jumping to conclusions based on a temporary hidden post that may not turn out to be accurate. I prefer waiting a bit longer to see what official pricing is. But I would also agree that if it turns out to be $30/mo for 3G from ATT that is a poor value.
Of interest is that everyone assumes WiFi tethering will be free once it is enabled. That is not a foregone conclusion in my mind. Tesla could easily charge a "connectivity" fee for WiFi tethering.�
Mar 23, 2013
NigelM +1. I'm not going to react to a hidden placeholder. We got threads full of discussion on what might, or might not, be acceptable:
-Connectivity-service-plan-upgradability-speed
-Connectivity-Package
-Connectivity-WIFI-Hotspot
-Connectivity-When-will-WiFi-be-enabled-(for-Tethering-and-lack-of-3G-coverage)
-Connectivity-What-do-delivered-Production-cars-have-for-Wifi-and-3G-connectivity�
Mar 23, 2013
patp As soon as they announce tethering, I'll buy a used LTE hotspot, leave it in the car and add it to my mobile phone plan for about 12$ per month.�
Mar 23, 2013
Hank42 Anyone know where the SIM is located? I mean, if it's AT&T, I 'd rather just pop in my own SIM from my family share plan - problem solved. Well, the 3G connectivity problem anyway, not the LTE problem
�
Mar 23, 2013
Johan I thought it was clear that the car has two separate data connections: one "System" connection and one "Content" connection. The System one is for remote diagnostics, firmware updates and likely also for the remote app controls (can someone confirm this?). The Content connection is for maps, video, radio, browsing etc. I think they could be two physically separate connections, but are more likely shared through one and the same mobile modem/SIM-card. In that case the car would either have to "route" data through one or the other part of the connection, but again more likely you can only buy an unlimited plan hence eliminating the need to keep track of which data is which (since you're paying a flat fee anyway).
Tethering to phone will be vital to achieve 4G/LTE speeds and unnecessary cost. Even if you tether via WiFi internet sharing on the phone or bluetooth you would most likely need to plug the phone in for charging, since tethering does drain battery from the phone quite a bit, so I would prefer wired tethering most of the time (more reliable, better speeds). The only big question in my mind is will the remote app still work even if you don't get the Tesla data plan?�
Mar 23, 2013
Lou in SoCal As someone else said earlier, the Tesla grin is slowly turning upside down. Need to step on that "gas" pedal to get it back. Unfortunately, as we keep getting nickel and dimed, I may have to just start sleeping in the car with the foot on the pedal.�
Mar 23, 2013
kendallpb At $30/month that would be a shade over 5.5 years, not 7 years, and that doesn't count price hikes over time from AT&T or whoever. That's hardly lifetime of the car, anyway; other things transfer (e.g., warranty), so if they offered free 3G it would as well, methinks. So $2000 isn't a realistic estimate, IMHO.
I paid less for my Model S than you (85, no perf/leather/special tires/whatever it is you got), but I am skeptical anyone paid for whatever options with the thought in the back of their minds "this is worth it because I will get free internet" (especially when it was known that internet would not, in fact, be free), yet that's your implication--because you bought things you felt were worth it, you should get something else for free that you didn't pay for and will cost Tesla money.
No, we felt it was worth it for various reasons, but didn't buy the car, or add on options, because we thought we might get something we knew we would not. IMHO, anyway. I didn't buy my house expecting free phone service and I'm not now ticked off that it didn't come with it--I knew it didn't.
I think complaining about the lack of a frunk net for non-sig (non-perf?) cars makes a ton more sense than expecting free 'net for life of car.
And sorry, I'm saying "you" because I'm replying to you, but I'm really speaking in general (you're not even the original person I was replying to).
Side Note: I don't know Tesla's GM but if they announced it, I wonder if that was a "perfect world/theory" number and reality isn't quite lining up to that. . . .�
Mar 23, 2013
fizzazle I agree with the value statements most have made. 3G for $30 is unreasonable.
Im pretty sure the MS is 4G/LTE ready (I recall hearing it has the hardware).
I also think people would be almost just as mad if 4G/LTE service costed that much. Smartphone users truly do use a lot of data/bandwidth and carriers are struggling to keep up with that (hence crappy slow service). They charge us a lot so they can build up their network.
With the model S we would hardly be using that much data. Certainly not $30 worth of data a month! (3G or 4G!!!).
I think the better question is why there isn't a "hacker" thread. Aren't there any software geniuses out there that have figured out how to hack the model S? Its just good old Linux....shouldn't be too difficult! I am surprised I still don't have video on my console!
here is my hacker wish list:
1. Video capability on my touchscreen
2. Unlock/enable WiFi and tethering to phone.
3. Unlock/enable hard drive access.
I'm sure this list could get pretty long pretty fast!!! Why are we counting on Tesla to do everything perfect and hoping they do it all for free/cheap? It's time for the hackers out there to put us back in control!!!�
Mar 23, 2013
kendallpb I agree 150%, Bonnie!
Heck, I and many other people surely have mobile devices--some folks are even comparing this to their mobile devices, compare the navigation with their mobile devices, etc. I'm guessing some or many of those who don't like the price won't miss much since they'll have their phone/tablet with them anyway. I'm not sure it's worth it for me, but I suspect I won't miss even the Google maps (though, good point, carrerascott!).�
Mar 23, 2013
dsm363 Does anything think Tesla is making more than a few bucks a month off of this plan? AT&T charges similar prices for my iPhone and iPad. I'd imagine AT&T is making a lion's share of the profits off of this deal but that's just a guess. I wish is was cheaper as well (at 4G LTE) though.�
Mar 23, 2013
jomo25 Many bought the car because of the notion that this was just a much simpler designed vehicle, thus maintenance would be significantly lower than an ICE. But the more we see of mandatory $600 service visits, rumored $30/month 3G costs, $21 shipping for very small items, the supposed cost and maintenance advantages begin to fade away.
As for passing the cost along, sorry at that cost for the little bandwidth of last gen technology is concerned, it's more than just the cost being passed here. Or Tesla needs to do some better negotiating with their suppliers. I never expected it to be free. And since I have no car yet, I can't say that I had a free ride like most of you. But the rumored price is not what I would consider fair.
I may be getting a bit ornery because we are one day short of my self imposed bar of waiting for a sign, any sign of progress on my car. No sign in sight, no VIN, no Delivery window (but I have been asked to pre-sign up for service). 4 cars with very similar configs finalized after me scheduled to deliver within 2 weeks. But I still think $30 for 1GB of 3G per month is ridiculous, if that's what ends up being the case.�
Mar 23, 2013
nikwest Well, can anybody point me to the information on Tesla's web site that there will be additional cost to use something like navigation, which as I understand needs 3G connectivity. When getting the Tech Package there is even stated that 7 years of free updates are included. I'd be very surprised if there would be any additional cost in the future to be able to use this features.�
Mar 23, 2013
kendallpb Superchargers--said would be free, are. 3G--said would cost money, will cost money. I think reversing that would be absurd and probably involve a lot of lawsuits. Seriously, you think this would be a good idea? To take something already released as free for life and start charging, just to give people 3G?!
ROFL. If that's all it takes...wow, nothing this minor could "taint" (!) my experience. My car's as awesome as a week ago! :-D Especially now that I got a frunk net.�
Mar 23, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla Nik, the navigation - the embedded Navigon turn-by-turn one that you see on the smaller dash LCD on the left - is indeed "free" with no need for 3G connectivity and with 7 years of updates with the tech pkg.
Without a data plan, you'll simply not have Google Maps on the big screen but, will still have turn-by-turn nav.�
Mar 23, 2013
contaygious Without Internet you could still use nav behind he steering wheel just wouldn't show a moving map on the big screen.
30 is too much IMO for my slacker and maps but I'll have to pay it I guess.�
Mar 23, 2013
jerry33 Right, but the problem is that there won't be any overview. That's often important because Nav systems aren't all that intelligent.�
Mar 23, 2013
kendallpb While I haven't saved receipts from the first eight years of maintenance on my old Miata, I'm pretty sure the S's service/maintenance for the next 8 years will be less than that. I'm fine with the maintenance costs. And yeah the shipping's nuts but the Rockville Service Center is ordering stuff for me--if you're near a store or Service Center, I bet they will to--so, no shipping!
This stuff just doesn't meld together for me. (shrug)
If that pricing is correct, then the pricing's in line with what I pay AT&T now (sometimes for less). All the cell companies area rip off (yes, folks, even Verizon bites IMHO). I find it tough to get (more) bent out of shape for this one particular plan, I guess.
I think it's $30 for unlimited. I don't know where 1GB suddenly came from. Anyway, very sorry you don't have word on your car; you should contact Tesla (do you have a DS yet?), etc.�
Mar 23, 2013
eelton $30 a month is what AT&T charges for a 3GB tablet data plan (albeit 4G), so the amount sounds correct.
The costs of ownership are mounting! $30 a month for data, $40 for the service plan, $10 to $20 for vampire losses...
�
Mar 23, 2013
rekoh I would echo. $30 is too much for what you get. (not 4g/LTE, no flash/video). $5/$10 a month maybe.. Plus I think if you paid for tech, it should be discounted because of the Navigation component.
Simple solution: ALLOW TETHERING!!!!! We all have cell phones already. We all have data plans already. This is wasteful in my mind. No need for duplication.�
Mar 23, 2013
nikwest Ok. Thanks for clarification although that sound kind of low tech. Can I also enter destinations and the like without having access to maps?�
Mar 23, 2013
dsm363 From what I understand you won't be able to look up destinations with Google without internet access but can use your phone to find the address and then enter it on the Model S.�
Mar 23, 2013
islandbayy I agree with this. It also mirrors something else' "Pass this healthcare bill so that you can find out whats in it"�
Mar 23, 2013
bonnie Mod note: Let's leave politics out of this, please.�
Mar 23, 2013
rekoh Well said!
+1�
Mar 23, 2013
cinergi The title of this thread is quite misleading. There's nothing remotely official (even 1% official, whatever that means) about it. For all we know, some developer pulled a placeholder number out of their proverbial a** and put it in their code and moved on.�
Mar 23, 2013
bonnie Moderator note: Thread title updated. (+1, cinergi)�
Mar 23, 2013
Al Sherman I'm definitely already doing this. I have no 3G at the house at all. When I type in an address, the car knows and I select it and hit navigate.When I get into 3G coverage it draws the map and works as advertised.�
Mar 23, 2013
SigGuy I typically agree with your level headed posts Bonnie but I respectfully disagree with this one. Connectivity is one of the exciting features of this car that I was told about and looked forward to for the more than three years I waited for the car to arrive. I'm disappointed with how it's worked so far and I'll be more disappointed if that poor level of execution comes with an unreasonably high monthly fee. The car without connectivity is not as cool as the car I thought I was buying for $108,000. Paying $30/mo for the connectivity it has would not be cool either. I can't just shrug and say "fine, I just won't pay for it". That's not the Model S I signed up for in 2009. And btw, how did something like supply of wireless data get worse between 2009 and 2013??
Finally, I don't find blaming AT&T to be acceptable. In the end, AT&T is a subcontractor to the experience Tesla is responsible for delivering. If Tesla is selling me the car and the experience, its their responsibility to deliver it to me. Blaming AT&T is no more acceptable to me than if they blamed a vendor for shoddy leather on the seats.�
Mar 23, 2013
gtimbers Let's be real here. I paid the better part of $4000 for a Nav system package. I EXPECT to get a Nav package that WORKS without additional fees, just like every other car brand on the planet. I don't care about Slacker, XM and Google maps or Album cover artwork. If I need that stuff, I should be willing to pay for it. I paid for and I am entitled to decent Nav that works. Not that tiny piece of crap picture scrunched into the left side of the instrument cluster, but a real working screen. I rarely type in addresses. I want to look at the surroundings and figure out which streets to take in un familiar surroundings. $30/ month is outlandish and just plain deceitful. I continually asked employees at various Tesla stores how this system would function without 3G and they made up a variety of answers. Never got the same story twice. The gist of it was that the screen would still function like a "normal" Nav system. It doesn't even do that now with 3G since you can count on 3G coverage even in a major city! Here is my solution to the problem. Costs $150 at your local Best Buy and works significantly better than the stock system as well. What do you think this image is going to convey about Tesla and their marvelous machine?
Let Tesla load the maps into memory or even on a USB stick so the car can access them like a traditional DVD system. This way we could at least get car direction up which the current system can't do. I'm not concerned about the maps being updated daily. I never changed DVD's more often the every 5 years with other cars. I live in a stable area, the landscape doesn't change that fast any longer. There has got to be a simple and fair solution other than taking on fee after fee.
If the Tesla is so simple that it doesn't cost much to maintain how come it costs $600/year (which comes to $50 per month) for routine service? I have owned 20 vehicles before this one. BMW's, SAAB, Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Mini, Fiat and a variety of others and NONE of them ever cost an average of $600/year for total service during the first 4 years/50000 miles of ownership. Maybe I got to $250/year on a few occasions. I don't want to hear about this being a $100k car and what do you expect. It is available as a $50k car and everything still applies. ($54k with Nav). Add to $50/month for service a nice fat $20/month for Vampire drainage and another $30 to keep your Navigation functioning in a mediocre fashion and we hit $100/month. I don't care how much money you make, we are getting stuck and we shouldn't accept it lightly. What's next, another $15/month to pay Apple for connection rights for our iPods. BTW, every other car on the planet accepts iPods either digitally or through an analog connection. Our BT connection is junk and doesn't work on an iPod which is the most common media storage medium in the world. Oh yes, we still don't have WiFi as advertised in the sales brochures. Look Gentleman and Ladies, it has been over 9 months since this car was released and it is high time these issues get solved. Yes the car drives wonderfully and it meets or exceeds my expectations in those areas easily. That does not excuse the FACT that it is more in line with a $30k Korean or Japanese car in its execution of creature comforts and non-driving features. Where the hell is my parcel shelf? I can make one myself in an afternoon. What is the big problem with a sheet of plywood with some fuzz on it? It doesn't even connect to the lift gate like every other auto brand does.
Clearly I'm irritated by the recent news of an impending 3G charge. This rant does make me feel better but I am serious about my feelings that we are getting screwed. I know it is a brand new technology and I willingly signed up to be inconvenienced while things are being perfected but these are ancient technologies we are talking about and there should be no problems at least matching equivalent cars.
Damnit, I'm going to go drive somewhere.�
Mar 23, 2013
jerry33 1. Bear in mind that there are two nav systems. The traditional one that shows up by the speedometer and the Google one in the display. The traditional one does not require connectivity.
2. As this is really speculation about the price, now is not the time to get irate. With luck the price and the WiFi connectivity will be announced at the same time. (This is also speculation).
3. I never thought that the connectivity would be free when using something other than WiFi.
4. ATT was chosen because it's a largest GSM network in North America. GSM was chosen because it's universal. Apple did the same thing when the iPhone was first introduced. It's no surprise that Tesla would follow their example.�
Mar 23, 2013
gtimbers The Traditional one is small and stupid. To my knowledge, it doesn't show up unless you type in an address. That is not Traditional. Traditional means a working map with car location that always is operational displaying READIBLE street names! I didn't pay $4000 for an 11" screen to have a tiny picture hidden behind the steering wheel that only works when driving to a specific address.�
Mar 23, 2013
carrerascott Until something official is announced, this is all moot. Maybe they'll say $30 a month or $100/year. Maybe not. We just have to wait and see. Once they announce, if it's stupid, we can all voice our outrage toward Tesla and Elon. Email the New York Times (lol). Get the word out that this car that we're saving money on gas with, is costing us over $1000/year in REQUIRED service and cellular that pretty much makes the car un-special if you don't get it.
Tesla needs word of mouth recommendations to survive. If I till people now that not only do they have to pay $90-$100k for the car, then they also have to pay $1000/year for service and cellular, or $2400-$4800 for service plans on top of the car price -- these things are going to stop selling themselves.
I'll wait to hear the official word, and react accordingly.�
Mar 23, 2013
bbmertz Hopefully the Tesla can be added to AT&T's mobile share plan which will reduce the incremental cost to existing customers. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this is not likely to be the case. Of course, everyone's commentary is purely speculative at the time, but at least Tesla is getting lots of feedback in advance of rolling out their actual Internet plan.�
Mar 23, 2013
mknox FWIW, we'd be extremely fortunate in Canada to get unlimited 3G for as little as $30 / month :frown:�
Mar 23, 2013
kendallpb My iPod doesn't work in either of our other cars without an extra device. That might come as a software upgrade to the S (and it's been stated or implied it will) but not on my other two cars, I promise you. I find it quite comfortable (so much better than my other half's SUV). My other half's parcel shelf also doesn't connect to the lift gate. The bluetooth works perfectly for me. I could go on, but the point is, a few delays in minor features don't bother me, being charged for something I expected to be charged for and that I could do the math on myself (I have an iPhone and iPad with AT&T...), navigation that works fine for me with or without 3G . . . none of that bothers me. Glass half full over here. But I'm glad you let off some steam and I hope you're enjoying your drive!�
Mar 23, 2013
spatterso911
The last sentence totally wins as the perfect Tesla ending to a well-drafted rant. I love the double entendre!
Sent via Tapatalk�
Mar 23, 2013
yobigd20 I think the general consensus of this thread is the following:
1) $30/month for 3G AT&T is too steep and many of us have connectivity issues. Slacker skips, etc.
2) given all the advanced technology in this superbly designed vehicle, if 3G is our only option, this is a step backwards and very disappointing to all of us.
3) however, $30/month would be acceptable if it were 4G LTE instead
4) many of us, including myself, would choose to use our own wifi hotspots instead, on our own plans, and permanently tether the car through our mobile hotspots either wirelessly or wired using the USB and keep the hotspot in the car. This is the most preferred option.
GeorgeB, and/or any other Tesla employee that is reading this, your customers have spoken. please listen to us on this one.�
Mar 23, 2013
jomo25 I threw the 1GB out there, not saying that is the limit on the subscription. Heck we dont even know if this price is official yet, so I'm not saying there is a limit on the account. I put the 1GB out as a rough estimate of the bandwidth that a typical person could even use on the 3G access in the MS. I doubt that anyone would end up using more than 1GB (if anything it would be very very few people) per month via the MS' 3G connection, given the limitations of the browser and inability to stream media besides Slacker and TuneIn music. That an nav information, basic browsing (of course not while driving, no one is going out to their car just to browse), and the data connection to send logs (I'm even including that). 1GB is liekly the upper limit anyone would ever touch. So I'm saying we'de be paying $30 per month for 1GB of last gen bandwidth. Stupid price. Heck those are "no prepaid data" data prices. "Over your limit overage data" prices. "Go to another country and roam" data prices. Well maybe not that last one. But you get the idea.
And as for "low cost to own cars", I throw this out there. I've had my Volt for 18 months. Total cost of maintenance service, OnStar, SiriusXM in that time? $0�
Mar 23, 2013
vfx So you want it for free? For the life of your car?
$30 a month for one year is $360 a year
8 years of $360 is $2800
That seems like a reasonable amount for Tesla to absorb?
Now take that $2880 times this year's production only:
$2880.00 times 20,000 cars is 57 million dollars ($57,600,000) annually for Tesla.
To complete that thought, 8 years times $57,600,000 is more than $460 million dollars.�
Mar 23, 2013
NigelM @vfx: Eric, you multiplied by "8 years" twice; nevertheless you do make a point.�
Mar 23, 2013
vetboy45
Shiver GTimbers! I'm shocked that this is causing such a commotion. I'm sure that the original point of this thread (a possible $30 charge for 3G) is not the real issue for most here. I bet it is the combination of that along with the recently announced costs for maintenance and extended warranty that is making everyone feel like they're getting squeezed for every dime that Tesla can get. That is certainly a more valid complaint than making a big deal over some insignificant charge for 3G. I for one think that Tesla really needs to explain exactly what they are doing during that yearly check that justifies the expense, especially after all the hype regarding how little maintenance would need to be done. It may very well be legitimate but we won't know unless the process is explained. All that being said, I love the car and have had little to no issues with the 3G, slacker, nav or anything else.�
Mar 23, 2013
Jason S 20000 cars now, but each year is another 20000 cars (or more). Prolly closer to 200 million dollars at 8 years out, but I get the point too.�
Mar 23, 2013
andrewket Slight mod to #3 - LTE is only really useful if the browser is useful. Flash/HTML5, etc. Without it, I'm not sure the speed increase matters all that much. 3G at $10/mo is probably better.�
Mar 23, 2013
jomo25 If Tesla is really paying $30 per month per car for the service, then really, they need a new Sourcing/Procurement department. Honestly, any schmo off the street can get 3GB of 4G bandwidth for that price. Tesla, making an exclusive deal with them, couldn't do any better?�
Mar 23, 2013
AMPd A lot of people getting upset with tesla over... Nothing really, there has been no official announcement.
My guess is they will allow wifi connectivity before introducing the data fee, that way they give the consumer an option of not paying for service without losing the ability to update the software.�
Mar 23, 2013
Electric1 Think that this says it all! It does seem like nickle and dimeing (I've had some other of these issues in Reason for Editing
That having been said, many of us did pay for an unlocked hard drive and we haven't even gotten a date for when that will happen (or why it has not). It also does seem a bit counter-intuitave to be locked to a single source provider, at a high price, when many of us have redundant service form a provider that serves our specific geography, and a a price that has simply got to be a huge markup over TM's volume pricing.�
Mar 23, 2013
loganss I guess I'm part of the few that doesn't have a problem paying $30/mo for connectivity. I don't understand the big deal with LTE either. Several years back I had Verizon cell plan w data that was $70+/mo then I moved to TMobile with a Nexus One which supports up to 3G at $34/mo. My Tmo plan is for 100 talk + unlimited everything else. The only time I go over 300MB/mo is when tethering my whole house off the phone and i think it's a bonus to be able to do that and wouldn't dream of over burdening the network like that on a monthly basis. I barely made phone calls so I primarily just used data. On a daily basis I used navigation, streamed music, and used bluetooth. That's exactly what i was gonna use my car for data wise so I think $30/mo is reasonable.
Someone mentioned that the phone app connection/updates and slacker/google maps/etc are separate. I don't recall ever reading or signing anything that stated that. Can someone point to some official document or website that stated this? Otherwise that sounds like someone just really wishing their assumption is fact.�
Mar 23, 2013
brianman I'm pretty sure my phone plan does not allow tethering. Of course, for a fee like $30 a month I could probably add limited tethering. But how is that really "solving" it?
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A fair point on this one. I think it would be a smart move for Tesla to introduce a 17" app that offers the Navigon mapping information for those with the Tech package. No internet connectivity required.�
Mar 23, 2013
kendallpb I don't need Flash in the car any more than I need it on my iPhone or iPad. (shrug) I'm not sure why I'd need video, either, I realize some people may live in the stone age and not have a smart phone or tablet. ;-) At least I presume video is what people mean by "HTML5" (that being just one thing it handles differently from previous versions of HTML).
But then, I also disagree with yobigd20's claim to speak for all of us, and of course, YMMV!�
Mar 23, 2013
Johan Just curious: how does your mobile provider know whether you're thethering your phone or using data on the actual phone? Over here we just have plans with either a given included ammount of data, or unlimited. With unlimited data what they do is when you reach for example 2 Gb transferred in one month they cap your speed at 128Kbps for the remainder of the month...�
Mar 23, 2013
kendallpb Wild speculation, IMHO, and sorry--you're not the only one thinking/saying this, just the one I happen to be replying to. . . .
We don't know whether they got volume pricing, whether they got good volume pricing, or anything about their supposed markup. I think all the cell phone companies in the USA are equally sucky (please, no one tell me how great your cell provider is) and I'm wary of making a lot of assumptions about this kinda stuff, seeing how cruddy they all price plans, lock people and companies in, treat their customers, etc. I'm way too jaded about them (but not at all about Tesla, unlike some).�
Mar 23, 2013
markwj Often just the user agent in browser sessions, but also things like SMB broadcasts, etc.�
Mar 23, 2013
brianman My recollection is that the tethering functionality in the OS interacts with the cell phone carrier. It's been a while since I looked into it though in part because I have strong recollections of Tesla saying my car would be a hotspot (so I wouldn't need to worry about it).�
Mar 23, 2013
William3 The data service should be free to the customer. It could easily be covered by the $599 profit per vehicle that Tesla makes off the yearly checkups.�
Mar 24, 2013
riceuguy Sorry folks...was pretty badly jetlagged and was cross-posting from TM forums...didn't mean to mislead! And while this is indeed speculation, it's the first pricing we've "seen" from Tesla at all, even if just a placeholder. The other item that was hidden in the HTML was the battery replacement plans, and those costs were exactly as promised, so while I'd love to believe that this pricing is wrong, or a placeholder, I just don't think that's likely. The reality is that it would be all but impossible to use more than a gig or two of data with the car's current features, and 3G is two generations old (behind HSPA+ and LTE), so my feeling is that $30 is very much overpriced. Like most folks here, I'm happy to just tether, EXCEPT: 1) it's a question whether that means the app will be useless much of the time, and 2) my wife will be seriously not amused if she has an extra step (enabling her phone's wif-fi hotspot) to go through to get maps, Slacker, etc. So yes, I'll probably subscribe, but I'll be annoyed. Perhaps as more apps are added, the browser improves, etc. I'll feel less annoyed. We shall see.�
Mar 24, 2013
jkirkebo Same goes for Norway. I'd be jumping with joy if that happens here. I'm expecting $50/month though. And "unlimited" means 6GB/month here, but that should really be enough anyway since we can't stream video�
Mar 24, 2013
markwj I think what we're seeing here reflects the general problem with per-device cellular connectivity. Paying for a plan for each phone in the family, each tablet, each car, your luggage tags, your pet's collar, etc, is already ridiculous and getting worse. The term 'unlimited' is one of the causes of this, as the providers are unwilling to offer N x unlimited (whether by tethering, multiple SIMs, etc).
What we're seeing where I live is more 'family device' plans, where you pay for xGB of data plan, plus y SIMs. For example, 5GB/month with 5 SIMs. I can then put those SIMs in whatever I like, and share the 5GB of data.
I doubt they will do it, but really hope Tesla will just allow end-users to choose and install their own selected SIM (or, just choose Tesla's offered plan). This is not a small M2M style data plan here (where an embedded sim with dedicated plan makes sense), but a large amount of data for extensive functionality.�
Mar 24, 2013
yobigd20 If it's jailbroken, they don't. But I don't see why it matters much, especially if you have Verzion. Tethering is free with Verizon. When I had AT&T, tethering was not free and was a $15 or $25/month cost. Another reason why I don't like AT&T and switched to Verizon.�
Mar 24, 2013
andrewket Tethering is not free on all Verizon plans. If you're on a pay-for-use/family share plan (2GB, 4GB, etc.) then it's included. Why not? It just drives up usage. If you're grandfathered with an unlimited plan, you have to pay extra for tethering. I'm currently paying for both unlimited LTE data and tethering, with a corp discount. I'm never letting it go. My monthly usage has been as high as 18 GB/month when I've been traveling and tethering my laptop.�
Mar 24, 2013
vfx
Hardly full profit. They don't do checkups wirelessly.
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ooops!
Yes 2M - and that assumes Tesla is fixed at exactly 20,000 cars per year for the next 8 years. Stockholders here would certainly dissagree with that stagnation when Tesla enters EU and Asia.�
Mar 24, 2013
Hut Why do we think the Canadian & European connectivity pricing will be the same as US?
Don't they charge us more on everything else already?�
Mar 24, 2013
gtimbers Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, I went for my long drive and I do feel a lot better. But guess what, during my nice long drive in the canyons, in an area that I haven't been before, the stupid Screen went black except for the pointer. No 3G, no maps, no way to know where I was going. This is pure crap. I am not bothered by paying for 3G. I am horrified at having to pay a monthly charge OF ANY AMOUNT for something I for which I have already paid! I bought GPS and Nav and I expect it to work all of the time. I shouldn't have to carry a hand held GPS to correct for the operational gaps in this system - monthly charge or not.�
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