Aug 11, 2012
ModelS1079 [mod note: Post moved from World Map of Model S Reservation Holders
I had an amazing day Friday (yesterday). Visited the NYC and White Plains stores, spoke with two specialists in Palo Alto/Freemont. Spoke with six specialists in all, two of whom knew less about the car than me, four who were very helpful. Couple of thoughts, which I thought might be helpful to share:
Battery degradation will add up in 3-4 years, but not severe. Spoke with a specialist in Freemont who noted his Roadster range had lessened about 20 miles over just about 4 years. Our vacation place is 115 miles; so I am going 60kWh and saving a bit for my 2017, 600mile range replacement battery - Ha! The 60kWh battery will have supercharge hardware included (that is clear) BUT it appears that Tesla is debating about whether to ENABLE the hardware (by including the necessary software) without an additional fee. Seems punitive and I noted this. It appears there will be a fee for 60kWh battery to be supercharge ENABLED. Glad the Hardware will be included though. On charging, I plan to include twin chargers and add the HPWC at home later. There are some public charging stations that are well above 40Amps and the twin charger will significantly speed up travel time when this higher amperage is available. That said, it appears it will be easy to add twin chargers later, so not critical at all.
Air suspension a must for this car, and I also don't want to wait! Speakers upgrade an excellent value and a must (Mark Knopfler never sounded so good). Tech package is annoying as much should be included (at very least the proximity key, I mean Kia and Hundai have that!), but the satellite Nav with 7 years updates and the Xenon headlamps make up most of the value there.
I no longer care about the center console. Just hit me suddenly that it will work out well, however it arrives. Neither NYC nor White Plains had anything near the final concepts being bounced around.
I was pretty thrilled to see we can modify the air suspension, brake regen, and electric assist on the rack and pinion steering, all from the touch screen. Very nice touch. The touch screen at White Plains was significantly more advanced than that at NYC/25th Street, and Jeff the White Plains manager is just awesome.
19 inch tires are the practical solution for me, in New England. Maybe I'll add 21 inch rims some day for a nice Spring drive...
The roof Pano - I think it is a great touch - I use my sunroof now every time I drive except during rain or heavy snow, and I never pull the shade over it when closed...I am told it will have a pull-shade "like the Audi" by specialists.
Some have noted the Pano roof may add head room in the rear. I have certainly noticed rear headroom tapers quickly toward the rear side and corners. No secret that Tesla is working to whittle a few extra millimeters while revamping the (cheap, easily broken) rear lighting. Of note, in both showrooms the front visors had been removed - broken lights? If the Pano roof adds headroom, it must do it by changing the overall roof construction, as the Pano roof does not reach the rear at all - it stops well before the rear headroom area.
Color: Black or Green. Back and forth. Love the green - is a chameleon as others have noted. Have seen too much Blue in Roadsters, but it is gorgeous, the Brown is unusual but original, the deeper gray looks sweet with the chrome. Never had a black car and it is an easy-out as it will look "wicked good" and, heck, Elon chose black... Just not sure. Beige leather, and either matte or gloss Obiche. Lacewood is very nice in person. Carbon fiber a bit digital/cool for me, but may fit the car best is in some ways. Like the texture of the matte Obiche, like the depth and color of the gloss Obiche in ambient daylight (brought the samples outside). Is the gloss too Buick, or will it look nicely refined? I don't really care about finger prints, but they will happen on gloss. No rear seats needed as kids are older, or getting older fast. No need for privacy cover in back as I can toss valuables in the Frunk. Thoughts? Delivery party for Boston-area enthusiasts a must option as well...!�
Aug 11, 2012
ChrisC Your thoughts are absolutely welcome and encouraged, however not in sticky threads that aren't for general discussion, and definitely not cross posted to multiple threads. Please post to a more appropriate discussion thread (or create your own), then edit these posts down to just a link to that post.�
Aug 11, 2012
smorgasbord It's rare to need the HPC at home.
Where are the public chargers that output more than 40amps? I only know of some in California.
The new Audis I poked around in a showroom had power sunshades.�
Aug 11, 2012
Robert.Boston I finally chose green. I've owned black, and it's really hard to keep looking great. The blue is so close to black that I'm sure it will present the same cleaning challenges. Also, I'm seeing a lot of the midnight blue on the road these days. Brown got vetoed by the family reviewing pics, and my wife's BMW is very close to the dolphin gray.
I chose the tan/beige leather as well, with lacewood. The obeche (esp gloss) looks too similar to various fake woodgrain plastics I've seen from Detroit over the years, while the lacewood is very different. I wish Tesla hadn't chosen such a dark finish on the wood, but I still find the lack of strong grain pleasing. CF wasn't an option for me, as I opted for the standard powertrain.
Delivery date in my MVPA is "November, 2012 - December, 2012", which I'm reading as "late November/early December." A delivery party could be unwise in my neighborhood (Charlestown), but perhaps somewhere else fun.�
Aug 11, 2012
pguerra What do you mean by this? I bought the HPWC, but is it for looks mostly or something? Why is it "rare" to need it?�
Aug 11, 2012
brianman What I suspect he's suggesting is that using a 14-50 directly is a fast enough nightly charging rate to be considered acceptable for general use. Only "rare"ly will you need a faster charging rate so that you can, for example, burn through the entire battery on Saturday, sleep less than 5 hours, and immediately burn thru the entire battery again on Sunday.�
Aug 11, 2012
bonnie Yes, exactly. I have a 14-50 installed in my garage & have never needed faster charging. Only once it wasn't fully recharged when I got up in the morning - and I didn't need a full battery that day, anyway.
But I have donated towards the purchase of two HPCs, so that they could be installed in places out in the wild that might be where I'd want a faster charge.�
Aug 11, 2012
pguerra Oh I see....well darn it maybe I should not have bought the HPWC - although it does look pretty cool. Then I could then keep the mobile charger it comes with in the car - if it doesn't melt in the Texas heat. But I'll never have to charge it out in the wild b/c of it's long range. That would only be if I take a road trip. And if I didn't have the HPWC, I could then just bring the charger with me after making sure it had 9:26min of charging time. ...and then I couldve bought the little backward facing car seat for about the same price as the jump seats if I remember correctly.
Well whatever. I know I dislike having my iPad 3 take forever to fully charge, so Id probably feel worse b/c this is a car that needs to get me places. What if I come home late, need to leave early, and then drive far? (Admittedly, this would be such a super duper rare occasion. I've done this maybe three times in my life).
Anyway actually I'd prefer to have the HPWC just for it's looks and was thinking about adding the jump seat anyway just today. I wonder if it's too late to add that to my order once I've locked in?�
Aug 11, 2012
pguerra More answers bring in more questions! What do you mean here? Does this mean that I could say, buy an extra HPWC and install in at some place with owner permission b/t Dallas and Houston? Forgive my naivety but I'm new at all this EV stuff.�
Aug 12, 2012
dsm363 It might not be too late even if you've locked your order in for something like the seats or changing your mind on the HPWC. It sounds like you don't need the HPWC but it does look nicer and gives you the freedom to charge faster if you need it. It's also nice if you have other Model S friends visiting from out of town and want to get them charged up and on their way too. As Bonnie said, you can also install a HPWC in the wild with permission of the owner but you can't control who really uses it other than physical control of the land it's on.�
Aug 12, 2012
FlasherZ So let's make it simple: if all you're doing is overnight charging, that's right.
I do have a real use case for it though: frequently I'm out on business trips, and the St. Louis airport is ~65 miles from me (with no charging stations in the lot I park in). There are many trips -- a monthly basis or so -- where I come home on a Friday morning, the family packs, and then we head out for a run to my in-laws' roughly 150 mi away. I'll be looking for new parking lot candidates - ones that might offer a charging station - over the next year or so, but I'm not aware of any.
Take away the high-speed charging need then consider the convenience. Will you need to carry your UMC with you to charge elsewhere? Frequently? Will you mind unplugging the 14-50 and coiling the cord neatly in the trunk/frunk on a daily basis (I have a 14-50 welder that's a BEAR to unplug), or would you keep the first UMC in the car and buy another UMC (rumored $500) to coil up and hang in the garage? In the end the price differential for another UMC vs. the HPWC is on the order of $700 - would you pay for double-speed charging for that $$?�
Aug 12, 2012
EdA ModelSxxxx,
You stated "Air suspension a must for this car..." - is this because of the weight of the battery?
Did you take a test drive?
/Ed�
Aug 12, 2012
JRP3 What I wonder is if they need a little bit more headroom why not shave some foam off the seat cushion which lowers the seat height? I'd bet they could get a good half inch or more and not compromise comfort, especially with a good suspension. Or make a removable pad for taller people who need the headroom.�
Aug 12, 2012
Larry Chanin Perhaps I missed this, but I couldn't find any official Tesla statement that supports the highlighted statement. Can you please state the source for this remark?
Thanks.
Larry�
Aug 12, 2012
smorgasbord If you take your road trips twice a month, the HPC will end up costing you about $5 for each unplug/plug pair you save over a decade.�
Aug 12, 2012
rcc I took a test drive so I'll answer: it's a must-have because the handling is awesome and the ride is very smooth. Like combining the best of a sports car and a luxury car suspension. I think the Tesla rep told me that the car was originally designed for the air suspension and they added the standard suspension in after but don't know if that's really true. The rep considered the air suspension and the premium sound the two best "bang for the buck" upgrades.�
Aug 12, 2012
vfx Ahhh but you are assuming that they have not already done that.
�
Aug 12, 2012
EdA I took a test drive too (video posted by Cinergi) but if you d0n't drive one without the air suspension how can you compare?
Presumably they all have it at this point?�
Aug 12, 2012
rcc Maybe I'm drinking the kool-aid but I don't see how you get that combination of very smooth ride and tight handling with a standard suspension.
I drive a BMW 330i with the sports suspension and I drove the test course with my BMW after I left the event. The Model S cornered flatter in the turns than my 330i, out-accelerated it up the hills and the ride was far far smoother on the rough roads. The 330i might out-do the Model S in a slalom given how heavy it is but I wouldn't bet on it.
I'm sure the standard suspension will be nice but I'm going to get the air suspension.
Edit: This was a non-perf Model S.�
Aug 12, 2012
JakeP I did the same on the Chicago course, driving it with my 328xi (non-sport) several times before and after the event. The non-Perf outperformed the BMW in all aspects of the course, and that was a vehicle I was completely unfamiliar with. I cannot wait to get a more substantial test drive, not to mention to truly take it through the paces as an owner.�
Aug 12, 2012
100thMonkey my perspective as a Leaf owner may turn out to be radically dwarfed after owning an S, but the main reason we are thinking of going with the HPWC is that after learning a lot about batteries, I've come to the conclusion that I will try and keep the S at around 50% charge to baby the battery (li-ions like to live at 50% for longest life). the HPWC will allow me to do this while still being able to increase the charge rapidly on short notice, making up for some of the lost convenience of keeping the battery at a lower state of charge.
�
Aug 12, 2012
jerry33 You might want to read this (post #39 hcsharp) and then rethink your plan because different LiIons have different requirements. Keeping the Tesla battery at 50% will actually shorten the life. A daily standard charge is best for battery life.�
Aug 12, 2012
pguerra HPWC for me. Thanks! I'm keeping the HPWC. But still debating on the jump seats. Biggest concern is that after 77lbs, it is useless. One son 4 yrs old. How many yrs left of use...�
Aug 12, 2012
mcornwell Well my 9yo daughter is only 51 lbs, depends on genetics and how much they eat!�
Aug 12, 2012
Liz G With the likelihood of getting my configuration email Tuesday, I'm P3259, I decided to take a small detour while heading home from Upper Michigan and swing by the Oak Brook store in hopes of getting enough information to finalize my S config.
Spent 2 hours in the store grilling the poor Tesla folks. Ok the first 1/2 hour was actually spent staring at the grey interoir with lacewood and the tan with piano black. Decided to go with the tan and piano black, had previosly decided on the blue exterior.
Thought I would share some of the tidbits I icked up.
1. With the res no. 2359 I can order the 60kWh and still get it this year. No worries.
2. Not getting the tech package will not affect/alter any touchscreen functionality other than the turn by turn nav. In all other ways the touch screen will function the same.
3. Getting the upgrade stereo does add functionality to the touchscreen. Forgot exactly what, probably just sat nav though
4. Auto keyless entry (tech package) will not cause the door handles to extend as you approach the car, at least not yet. Was told it would probably be a simple upgrade later. Door handles would only extend if the key fob was pressed or the door handles were pressed. Auto keyless entry would just unlock the doors allowing the handles to extend when pressed.
5. App would most likeli include the following features.
Ability to track the cars location
Climate controll
Notify you if alarm goes off
Notify you, via alarm, if charging is interupted. Someone cuts the cord or tries to pry it out of your car
Would not include6.
Ability to open pano roof remotely
6. You cannot lock the key fob in the car
7. If both key fobs are in the car the settings on the first key fob to enter the car take precedence on driver set up. At least that's how I understood it.
8. Drivers settings can be associated to each key fob.
9. Car should be plugged in every night.
10. For best battery life, set to charge as slowly as possible. This can be configured in the touchscreen. Ie. Even if you could charge in 2 hours but you've got 8 hours to plug it in. Set it to charge slowly over the 8 hours.
11. No tire pressure monitoring at this time. Though Tesla will know
12. The car will be sending data back to Tesla about itself all the time
13. The pano roof does not have ability for the rear of the glass to tilt up. Opening the pano roof always happens from the front.
14. The app that allows you to see how far you can travel depending on speed etc will be included in the touchscreen. In addition it will include the locations of charging stations and indicate the best speed and points of charge for your trip.
15. You can plug your phone into the usb port and have it connected via bluetooth at the same time. Bluetooth connection is required to access the phone via the touchscreen. Music can be accessed via usb connection.
Ok that was all I could remember. Hope you find it helpful.
One other thing. I was really happy to see that Tesla wants you to get the best car for you. I was trying to decide between the 300 mile battery or the tech package, I couldn't afford both. After talking thru the options and my needs with the Tesla rep he suggested I go with the the 230 mile and tech package as I would get everyday enjoyment out of the tech package vs only needing the 300 miles a couple of times a year. He could have pushed me towards the 300 mile battery, as that would have gotten Tesla an extra $6k, but instead he pushed me towards what was best for me. Can't say I've ever experienced that with any other car dealership I've gone to.�
Aug 12, 2012
JRP3 True. Anyone sit in the back seat and poke at the foam to see how deep it is? Do the seats feel hard?�
Aug 12, 2012
Liz G One other comment. Something I noticed during my test ride in Chicago. In the car with a solid roof the roof over the back seats is lower than the roof over the front seats. If you look you can see that the roof drops quite a bit, half to 3 quarters of an inch, right behind the front seats, about the same place as the placement of the bar in the piano roof and it doesn't go back up. I've got it on video. I'll will try to post if I can.�
Aug 12, 2012
contaygious Yeah I don't fit in the back without pano roof.
For the the sound system it adds the screen that lets you move the center position of the stereo around e..g, on the driver seat. It also adds Dolby on/off, but I prefer off.
Auto keyless entry with door latches extending is coming in update. Also you can program the car to lock the doors when you walk away. Not sure if you need tech for that.�
Aug 12, 2012
ModelS1079 In response to question about my source for 60kWh hardware being included but not enabled:
Larry, this is from a direct conversation with my configuration specialist at the Palo Alto area showroom, Friday, Aug 10th. I had just been told in White Plains that the 60Kwh battery would have the Supers=charge hardware included, and was shown this on the design/configuration website as well, while in the NY showroom. By phone, the CA specialist noted that Tesla was planning to enable the 60kWh supercharge hardware for a fee; after I noted that seemed misleading in light of the new web posting (which clearly says supercharge hardware is included), he indicated that he thought that, although the hardware was included, there would be a separate fee later to enable it. Would welcome further clarification if you come by it.�
Aug 12, 2012
ModelS1079 Just a rookie TMC maneuver; I tried to post on another thread and thought it did not take, tried another but it ended up on it's own. Note taken. Still don't know what a sticky thread is. Damn. But I know a nice car when I see one.�
Aug 12, 2012
ModelS1079 Did not test drive, but after reading reviews (individual and trade reviews), and seeing the car lift and drop in the showroom (how cool is that?), it seems a (relatively) small price to pay for a big jump in enjoyment of the car. Ditto on speaker upgrade as noted above. As per Liz G, I am saving with a 60kWh battery, and instead enjoying the tech package, speakers - and air suspension.�
Aug 12, 2012
MikeK Yes, but to open, the back has to tilt up in order for it to roll back over the top of the roof. My impression was that "Vent" did exactly that. Tilt the back up but not roll the roof back. So, perhaps it just has to move back a little bit?�
Aug 12, 2012
100thMonkey thanks for the link. Certainly I've got lots more reading to do before delivery. what I'm doing with the Leaf now should work great. I think ahead a bit, charge up enough to get me back to the ranch with roughly 50% for overnight (reduces cladding of anode/cathode), then start over using an end timer for the next days driving. The depth of discharge on a daily basis is kept to a minimum. I avoid going below 30% SOC and above 80%, it's my understanding that between 30% and 50% SOC has the lowest propensity for cladding. my approach would avoid stressing the battery by not driving it at a low SOC. I doubt there is that much of a difference in chemistry between the Leaf and the S, but I have not looked into it deeply yet. what I've found with our driving patterns is that the vast majority of our driving happens in relatively short jaunts, so full fast charges are rarely necessary and will be much less so with the 85 kW S pack. I'll have a much better sense of this once I become more familiar with the charging options of the S and put some miles on it in real life. I may conclude that it's just not worth thinking much about with the standard mode option and TMS. The Leaf's current challenge with heat and lack of TMS has us thinking a lot more about charging habits, I suspect the intent with the design of the BMS of the S is to reduce the need to think about it so much.
�
Aug 13, 2012
Liz G Perhaps the rep was mistaken then. Or perhaps it just lifts and slides in conjunction so you cannot just tilt it open. I'm just relaying the info the rep gave me when I asked. He did not demonstrate. Though he seemed very certain you couldn't just tilt the rear of the glass. Perhaps Rod and Barbara will be kind enough to shed some clarity on the functioning of the pano roof.�
Aug 13, 2012
brianman Perhaps we need to see what "1% open" means for the Panoramic Roof.�
Aug 13, 2012
JRP3 A thread that is pinned to stay at the top of each forum so it doesn't get pushed down with newer threads.�
Aug 13, 2012
Larry Chanin Thanks for the elaboration.
Did you get the impression that this fee was just for the the 60 kWh cars, or for all cars?
Thanks.
Larry�
Aug 13, 2012
ModelS1079 The specialist clearly indicated that the additional fee to enable supercharging hardware to function was for only 60kWh cars, as the specialist noted that the 85's would be enabled at time of vehicle purchase, and the 40's were too sensitive to have the supercharge hardware (too much heating and degredation with supercharge). Perhaps the most significant impression I took away is that Supercharging, which is direct DC-to-DC charging, apparently contributes significantly to degredation if used routinely. Hence, I am hoping there will be, say, 70-80 Amp chargers available as well that will benefit from Twin Chargers onboard (the internal Tesla dual AC to DC chargers) - taking more time than Supercharge, much fater than regular charging, but taking less life from the battery. Feedback from BatteryTechies welcome, and from anyone who hears more about the supercharge plan for 60 kWh cars. Thanks.�
Aug 13, 2012
BryanW S1079, this is why I ordered the twin chargers. I won't need them at home, as I will only be using the HPWC on a 240/50 amp line. (I know I could go with an outlet, but I want the HPWC for looks, and for any visiting Model S passing through Utah and stopping in for drinks and a visit). For the majority of my road trips, I think I will be able to get by just fine with the twin chargers going at 70-80 amps while I get a meal. As long as they have this option, I should rarely need to supercharge, thus sparing the battery. I was originally going to get the single charger, but the more I thought about this possibility, the more the twin charger made sense, even though I won't need it at home.�
Aug 13, 2012
contaygious Do they even have twin charging stations? I thought supercharging would be more common. I don't want to pay for twin charger to wait hours anyway so skipped that option.�
Aug 13, 2012
kcveins Liz,
Just trying to figure out which number you are - ?2359 or 3259 if you are expecting your email this week........�
Aug 13, 2012
Liz G Sorry about the typo. I am P2359.�
Aug 13, 2012
ModelS1079 Brian W and Contaygious: I have not confirmed that any significant number of charging stations have twin charge-level amperage. But I know they exist and am told here is one between NYC and Boston already. Not a big decision as twin chargers can be added later.�
Aug 13, 2012
Vger Any of the 70A original TESLA/Clipper Creek stations installed all over CA and up and down I-5 (once converted to J1772, which is increasingly common), will use most of the capacity of a twin-charger-equipped Model S. Up here in Canada, a Canadian company, Sun Country Highways is busily putting such chargers in ALL OVER Canada, so there will be many available up here. The first wave of Level 2 chargers was sized for the anemic charger of the Leaf. But as more Model S's get out there, I think the pressure will build for higher capacity Level 2 chargers. So personally, I think twin chargers is a good investment.�
Aug 14, 2012
ModelS1079 Helpful to know that Tesla has already installed 70Amp Charging Stations. It appears to me that, in stepping down to a 60kWh battery, I can offset the added range concern by speeding up my POTENTIAL charge rate - home or away - whenever possible. I recognize from Roadster forums that the range anxiety thing evaporates after a few months of ownership, but nice to have that potential Twin Charge in the back pocket, so to speak. As noted, twin Chargers can be added later, post delivery (at a cost), per Tesla CA and NY, so not critical in the up front configuration.�
Aug 15, 2012
ModelS1079 Looking over the Design Site now they have again changed what is said about the 60kWh battery: this clarifies what I had hoped!
For the 60kWh battery:
Supercharge Hardware
Equip your Model S with the hardware and software needed to use Tesla Superchargers in the future. Included
Sounds like the heard the alarm of others who, like me, felt mildly abused by having the hardware but not the software...or is the software still not enabled...?
Edit: Spoke with Tesla CA today again - appears there will be a charge - perhaps a subscription - for Supercharge users. Not determined yet. Supercharge announcement in September may include more info...�
Aug 15, 2012
brianman This aligns with what I had guessed months ago. Good to see they went the route of "85 benefit is saving on usage cost" rather than "85 benefit is more technology in the vehicle" (with respect to Supercharging).
To 60 purchasers, the difference may not matter. But from an engineering and vehicle physical value perspective, it's the high road.�
Aug 16, 2012
Todd Burch A subscription would not be good at all, given how infrequently most people would use it. (I might have to supercharge once or twice a year. Having to pay a monthly or annual fee which likely wouldn't be worth it would peeve me off. I'd definitely prefer a pay-per-use system. I think that would help with sales and EV adoption.
Did you get the impression that the fee would only be for 60 kWh owners (ie free for 85 kWh owners) or that it would be a fee for all users?�
Aug 16, 2012
Robert.Boston Agreed, Todd -- a pay-per-use system needs to be an option. It would seem rare (and ill-advised) to be a regular user of Superchargers.�
Aug 16, 2012
JRP3 On the other hand Tesla may need a guaranteed level of income to support the build out of the super charger network. It might come down to a monthly subscription at one price level or a per use charge at a much much higher level to cover the costs.�
Aug 16, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Yes, for comparison, Blink offers both types of plans:
Blink - Membership�
Aug 16, 2012
ModelS1079 Todd, I had had the impression with my first call that this was to be imposed on only 60kWh users, but my second call's specialist suggested all users would be charged for Supercharge use, whatever the cost structure. I am not confident anyone knows, except The Board. Brian in response to your note [This aligns with what I had guessed months ago. Good to see they went the route of "85 benefit is saving on usage cost" rather than "85 benefit is more technology in the vehicle" (with respect to Supercharging).], I am not totally sure what you mean - comment would be welcome.�
Aug 16, 2012
Todd Burch I was under the impression that the relatively small cost of building out the network would bring a lot of bang for the buck. Since the charger's proprietary to Tesla, the more superchargers they have, the more potential customers will see range anxiety as less of an issue, and the more cars Tesla will sell. Seems to me it also benefits Tesla from a public relations standpoint, especially given the talk of solar panels and the idea of generating clean transportation energy.
I think we calculated in another thread that a nationwide network in the US could be established for about $10-$20M. That seems a relatively small cost in the grand scheme of things given the benefits. Given gross margins and an estimated selling price of the car, that would be about 600 Model S's to pay for the nationwide network. If Elon mentioned they can get cash-flow positive at 8,000 cars, it seems Tesla has the ability to build out a decent, nationwide, nearly free network relatively quickly.
Edit: Not to mention if they can sell power back to the grid with the solar panels. (Although granted, with solar panels, this estimated cost is probably a little low).�
Aug 16, 2012
JRP3 Problem is with a free supercharging network people would be tempted to use it more than really necessary, tying up superchargers and putting battery packs through more abuse. I'd think they have to charge something just to discourage needless supercharger use. In truth it's probably in Tesla's best interest overall to have as few people actually use the supercharger network as possible.�
Aug 16, 2012
Todd Burch I agree. It needs to be like a health insurance deductible. Some small amount to discourage abuse. That's why I think it should be per-use, and very inexpensive (no more than charging at home would cost).�
Aug 16, 2012
JRP3 Except it's much more valuable than home charging when you need it, so I'd expect it to be priced accordingly.�
Aug 16, 2012
Larry Chanin Hi Todd,
I agree that there should definately be a fee for Supercharging, but Superchargers will be generating large demand charges during on-peak times. It would be unrealistic to expect to pay the same as charging at home. I think it is likely that Tesla will attempt to mitigate the demand charges by using photovoltaic arrays with battery storage, but it is still doubtful that all demand charges could be avoided, especially with a Supercharger that has lots of daily customers.
Larry�
Aug 16, 2012
NigelM Guys, just a heads-up that we have a whole thread on paying for Supercharging as well as others on the general subject:
What-s-a-fair-price-for-the-supercharging-option
Tesla-Supercharger-network
Suggested-Supercharger-Locations
FWIW, I suspect that superchargers will get less use than most people expect. I subscribe to DavidM's implied point here and believe that although we need a network of Superchargers to assuage range-anxiety and change general thinking, few of us will use them very often.�
Aug 16, 2012
Todd Burch I agree. For most, long drives just aren't that common. It'll probably be 5-10 years before most of us see any sort of high demand for superchargers, although they're needed now for those rare occasions.
And Nigel, yes there are other threads...but after all, this thread is "Various thoughts on Model S". I guess this thread is turning into a mishmash of randomness and we ought to dissect this thread and organize its various pieces into other threads...
..not it!�
Aug 16, 2012
jerry33 Right. Long drives happen from two to five weeks during a year. Not many drive long distance (other than business) more than that.�
Aug 16, 2012
PhatCat As soon as the Supercharger network is fully operational I plan to take a month and drive the entire route.�
Aug 16, 2012
brianman I thought I was pretty clear, but hopefully someone else can help clarify / rephrase.�
Aug 16, 2012
Norbert These discussions usually and eventually arrive at the term "second car"... it seems DavidM was clever enough to include it in his first post. If a thread from a while ago was representative, most current Model S reservation holders (on this forum) are buying the Model S as a second car (or third) car. The sooner the "second car" image dissolves, the better.�
Aug 16, 2012
MikeK I am selling both of my cars when I buy the Model S. It will be my only car.�
Aug 17, 2012
jerry33 The Model S will be my primary car.�
Aug 17, 2012
Zythryn the Roadster is currently my primary car, the Model S will also be my primary car. And, that is without any SC network. Never needed it, and probably never will.�
Aug 17, 2012
Liz G I too will be using my S as my primary car.
I'm only keeping my Subaru Baja, because I have 2 very large dogs that will never set foot in my S.�
Aug 17, 2012
bonnie Most two-adult households have two primary cars - and from what I've seen in various threads, Model S will be one of those two primary daily drivers. I've kept a Prius as a secondary car (like Liz, I have dogs) & my Roadster is my primary driver. Including roadtrips (with no SC option). When my Model X is parked in the garage, the Prius will be gone. And I have no idea which one (Roadster v. Model X) will become my daily driver.�
Aug 17, 2012
Tempus the model S will definitely be my primary car. My wife's car is still an ICE at this point, but ideally when she is ready to replace that a few years down the line, we'll be comfortable enough (and the infrastructure will be built out enough) that there won't be any second thoughts about going all electric (and hopefully bluestar will be ready then).�
Aug 17, 2012
Tommy Whether to call the S the primary car vs secondary car reminds me a bit of the picture showing a house and how the bank, appraiser and a homeowner see the same property through their own lens. In the primary/secondary label of the S: it's my primary car however as far as how I portray it to my insurance company, it's the secondary car in the household. Let's hope they see it the same way.�
Aug 17, 2012
Norbert What I was referring to, is the concern that in addition to an EV (without well-functioning fast-charging network), many people think they need an ICE or PHEV. The question which one you drive more often, is a different one.�
Nov 21, 2012
ModelS1079 Tesla New York City Special Event: Motor Trend Award (The Road to Fremont)
Tesla New York City Special Event: Motor Trend Award
Here's a rather personalized look at the event, and the road there. Enjoy.
Many thanks to TeslaGuy, who got me there, but somehow managed to evade all photographic proof he exists...
http://animoto.com/play/lZ6sLthMXN1HU907C2cTJw�
Nov 21, 2012
cinergi Pretty cool, thank you!�
Nov 21, 2012
JakeP Very cool. Loved the "Dad's Tesla Fund" panhandling shots, and the cameo of Cinergi with his Livestream rig back with the press corps!�
Nov 21, 2012
ModelS1079 Cinergi, check out the Boston pics carefully - I was surprised - and not at all surprised - to learn now that we were there that day together, before I knew (the much esteemed) Cinergi.�
Nov 21, 2012
cinergi Hehe yeah I saw those flash by :smile:
I thought we met at the Natick store -- or were those photos before we met that day?�
Nov 23, 2012
ModelS1079 Cinergi, appears you met brother Jay in early 2010, and yu and I met at the Boston Auto-museum event, Natick opening, and a little shindig in NYC, live-streamed by some zealot to the world.�
Mar 25, 2013
ModelS1079 QUESTION ABOUT MODEL S SEATS:
Anyone else finding them stiff? I am having a little right thigh pain from the seat being hard there. Wondering if this is just me. Not an issue if I shift alittle, but seems I should not have to do that. Feedback welcome. Else, the car remians amazing.�
Mar 26, 2013
jerry33 Not enough hours in the Model S yet. However, my thought is that you can adjust the seat to fix this.�
Mar 26, 2013
EdA This has probably been covered elsewhere but as I'm just about to hit 4k miles and recently did my first road trip here's what I learned:
- The speedometer reports a higher speed than being driven (confirmed with service manager this morning)
- Nissan dealers are invaluable
- 120V charging is useless
- Even a 2 minute test drive produces the Tesla grin on everyone in the car, including me
- Still missing my parcel shelf...
/Ed�
Mar 26, 2013
sp4rk - by how much? (Speedo)
- I'd sooner not comment; mine is malignantly useless.
- never tried it
- Yes, yes and yes!
- Never ordered one�
Mar 26, 2013
EdA I'm seeing 2 MPH of over-reporting on the speedometer at ~75MPH. This (1-3MPH of over-reporting was confirmed by the service manager this morning).
My old skool GPS (I didn't order the tech package) has been used by me in 3 other cars (Chrysler, Honda, Audi) and always matched exactly.
The killer for me was being passed by my 80 year old father on the way back from the roadtrip...�
Mar 26, 2013
gtimbers With regard to the speed error, it is required by Federal law that the speedometer read high (faster than real). Due to tolerances, most manufacturers used to set the speed about 2 mph high at 60 mph. Now with digital speedo's, they may be able to cut it closer. I have never had a car with a digital speedometer before. I get something like 1/2 mph high at 70 with the 19" wheel option. Of course with a digital speedometer, you can only see in 1 mph increments so the two displays could be nearly 1.5 off and still read the same.�
Mar 26, 2013
AnOutsider I've never owned an American car, but all the German ones I've owned have always read high and it was usually worse as your speed increased.
Not saying the S isn't high, but it's certainly lower than the cars I've tested against�
Mar 26, 2013
EdA It just seems odd with the other two digital cars (2010 Audi, 2008 Honda) they were spot on...and with the analog 2005 Chrysler it seemed in-line too.
The ~1.5MPH difference could be what I'm seeing.�
Mar 26, 2013
Robert.Boston Yes, I had a fairly serious issue with right hip/thigh pain initially. I found that tilting the seat upward (the seat itself, not the back support) provided more thigh support and helped a great deal. The MS seats, although thinly padded, have a lot of adjustment options, so if you're not comfortable, keep playing around with alternatives.�
Mar 26, 2013
eelton I think the seats are my least favorite thing about the car. Not that they're terrible, but I drive two other cars, and the Tesla's seats come in third in a field of three.
(Actually, I also drove a rental Hyundai Elantra last weekend, and the seats felt better than the Tesla's.)
�
Mar 27, 2013
ModelS1079 Eelton, sorry to hear we placed fourth and behind a Elantra in seat comfort.
Richard.Boston, thanks for the advice - set up a second saved seat setting to check out the settings you noted above.
EdA, great Avatar. Best 2 minutes of your day:
Spinal Tap - These Go To 11 - YouTube�
Feb 14, 2015
ModelS1079 50,000 miles.
25 months (26 as of this week, At 52,000 miles now).
Three winters.
Lots of snow (Massachusetts, New Hampshire, etc.), but no snow tires as of yet.
Tons of joy.
Looking back to my first post at the top of this thread, reminds me that, if I never said thanks, thank you Bonnie for your early providence, Jerry33 for your technical advice, Robert for your levelheaded thinking, Ben for your guidance (and videos)!,Nigel for picking up my father, who you did not even know, in his front yard and taking him for a ride, Gigi for being even more enthusiastic than me, John "Tesla Guy" for introducing me to Elon, and all the people who were helpful in those very first months online. Looking back, the more than 3 1/2 year wait was really a part of the fun. I think they should make every reservation holder wait a few years. Augments the Magic.
Gotta love a battery that has lost 6 miles in over 50,000 miles. And not one oil change.
If you are considering buying a Model S or Model X, let me just say, as I have said before:
Of all the things in life that don't really matter, this is the best.
Everyone - Enjoy.�
Feb 15, 2015
EdA Great post as usual, thanks for letting me participate in your delivery and for your great sense of humor.
(How's Islandbayss' wife BTW?)�
Mar 5, 2015
ModelS1079 Ed! How could I not have thanked you for being there - being there! - the day Elwood arrived. Many thanks, indeed, for all the support and advice over these years. Also Aaron, who posted for me as I traveled the east coast with my son. These are good days, indeed.�
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