Sep 30, 2012
GeorgeB Supercharging and 60 kWh Model S Orders
Unfortunately this situation did not unfold as planned. Everything started out fine, then when dates slipped, we made a decision that I think was the right decision, but wasn't communicated clearly or aggressively enough. Here's what was supposed to happen:
March: Begin configuring Signature cars (all have 85 kWh batteries)
Early July: Supercharger Event (followed up immediately thereafter with pricing for 60 kWh cars)
Mid-July: Begin configuring General Production cars (with 85 and 60 kWh batteries)
The above schedule would have let Supercharging be a nice surprise when announced, and all pricing would have been clear and understood before any 60 kWh cars were configured. Unfortunately it turned out to be impossible for the Supercharger event to take place before the end of September, yet we still needed to begin configuring 60 kWh cars in July. That's when we made a decision�
We decided to include the necessary hardware in all cars (both 60 and 85 kWh cars) to allow Supercharging to be enabled at a later date. This would give anyone who finalized a 60 kWh car the option to include Supercharging after the Supercharger Event in September. I believe including the hardware was a good decision. In hindsight, I think how we communicated activation details was not aggressive enough and the assumptions we made were incorrect.
How We Communicated - We changed our website, Design Studio and configuration paperwork to reflect exactly what we were doing�including the hardware necessary in both 60 and 85 kWh cars to allow Supercharging in the future. We then verbally communicated that access would be free for 85 kWh cars, and there would be an activation fee for 60 kWh cars.
Our Incorrect Assumption - All customers in the configuration process would clearly understand there was an activation fee for 60 kWh cars.
This assumption was based upon the fact that Elon said it numerous times, we were verbally communicating it regularly, and it was showing up on the forums that there was an activation fee for 60 kWh cars. Elon also stated it again during his presentation at the Supercharger Event.
The assumption that the Activation Fee was clear is where we went wrong. In hindsight, we should have just put it in the text of the website, Design Studio and on customer's MVPA.
Now flash forward to this past Friday... When we went out with our Supercharger follow up communication, we intended to do something positive for customers who had already booked 60 kWh cars by giving them the option to enable Supercharging for half the price going forward. We erroneously thought this would be a positive. It was not.
It was not because the way we had previously communicated the activation fee was insufficient. Therefore, we are now waiving the entire activation fee for everyone who has already finalized and signed their paperwork for a 60 kWh car� To be clear, there will be no charge for those who have finalized and signed their paperwork for a 60 kWh car, and they will now receive free, unlimited Supercharging.
For those of you who received emails this past Friday regarding this issue, you can disregard them. Your car will have free, unlimited Supercharging enabled at no additional cost. Going forward, for those who have not finalized their order, I believe the option cost for Supercharging of 60 kWh cars is now clear on our website in multiple places.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this. I truly wish this had all gone much smoother. I wish we had been more clear, but we were not, so it is up to us to make it right�
The fee to enable Supercharging for all currently finalized and signed 60 kWh cars is waived.
Thanks... GeorgeB�
Sep 30, 2012
markb1 Thanks George! I believe this was the right thing for Tesla to do.�
Sep 30, 2012
ckessel It's great to hear 60kwh folks that finalized get SC included in full. Even if I have some reservations about the value proposition of the $2000 pricing in the grander scheme, it's great to see Tesla do the right thing by the 60kwh folks that have already finalized.
I distinctly remember how excited a friend was when 60kwh went to "included", it prompted him to reserve.�
Sep 30, 2012
Todd Burch I'm an 85 kWh customer George, but I'm sure the 60 kWh guys appreciate this.
Class act, George. Keep up the regular communication like this and it will benefit Tesla greatly! Thanks!�
Sep 30, 2012
Tempus Wow. Unexpected, but thanks. One less thing i have to worry about now!�
Sep 30, 2012
heems Nicely done. I am not canceling my reservation today. Thank you.�
Sep 30, 2012
efusco Thanks George. So important to do right by the early buyers. Doesn't impact me, personally, but reassuring that Tesla wants to do things right.
Evan, Via Tapatalk�
Sep 30, 2012
Beavis You go, George! As a Sig holder I am not really personally impacted but I believe that this is what makes you guys pretty special. The vision of our highways filled with EVs is closer than ever because of this thoughtful action.�
Sep 30, 2012
dsm363 Thanks George.
I think this demonstrates that Tesla has great people working there and are trying to run a business that treats its customers well while also looking to succeed and push EVs forward. I'm happy for the people that finalized already and that this helps out.�
Sep 30, 2012
bonnie Ditto on what Dave said. Many of us have experienced Tesla going above and beyond for their customers time and again. And now ... again.�
Sep 30, 2012
spatterso911 Great news GeorgeB,
I am configuring a performance, so it doesn't impact me, but I feel that for those who have already configured, it will be regarded as a just and fair decision, in line with what we have come to expect from Tesla. We need early adopters from all battery sizes to walk away with satisfaction that their pioneering spirit was well worth it.�
Sep 30, 2012
onlinespending That's a standup response from Tesla. Good work. Though I'd hate to be the guy that waited to sign his MVPA for one reason or another, and missed out on this freebie.�
Sep 30, 2012
sagebrushnw Update - Supercharging and 60 kWh Model S Orders
Take a look at GB's response to the Supercharging issue with customers who have finalized orders for 60 kWh Model S cars
Update - Supercharging and 60 kWh Model S Orders | Forums | Tesla Motors�
Sep 30, 2012
teslasguy Thanks George! Now this is the kind of top notch customer facing practice that we "newbies" have heard so much about from Roadster owners. In all my years as an exec in the computer industry I witnessed over and over how perceived negatives can become huge positives depending upon how they're handled. This is the sort of thing that now gives us S owners Great War stories to tell others about for years to come!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk�
Sep 30, 2012
vfx Amazing. Bravo Tesla. Doing the thing that is best for customers.�
Sep 30, 2012
kevincwelch Glad to hear it is so for the current 60 kWh folks in the queue.�
Sep 30, 2012
Lenn Thank you George!
Thank you George!
I upgraded to the 60kw battery specifically for the advantage/promise of a Supercharger system that would allow me to drive longer distances. I attended the Supercharger event last week, and was excited to see that the system is finally a reality. (Shaking hands with Elon wasn't bad either!) I must not have been paying close attention, and was disappointed to receive an email informing me that Supercharger access would be an extra $2K charge. I appreciated the half-off offer for early 60kw adopters, but I wasn't too happy about forking out an extra grand over and above what I'm already paying for my car.
Tesla's rescinding of Supercharger access fees for early 60kw customers is a classy move by a classy company. I'm so proud to be a member of the Tesla family!�
Sep 30, 2012
Orthonos Thanks for the note and for doing well by people. Although I will be getting the 85 and so not directly impacted, I appreciate seeing how Tesla is treating its customers.�
Sep 30, 2012
Discoducky Not really sure how many of us signed MVPA 60kWh reservation holders are out there that this affects, but I'm one of them and I'll say this. I proudly own TSLA stock, I proudly evangelize TM products/services and now I know that GB wasn't kidding when he spoke at the October event. I really feel like family. Thanks GB!
Day in and day out I think about the decision to buy a Model S and stretch to get the 60kWh. The service plan and this SCing fee was putting a ton of stress on that decision as my needs for Model S revolve around interstate driving.
Just about everyone I know asks me when I'll get the car just about every time I see them. And not all of them believe in EV's, heck, I'd say most think I'm wasting my money for one reason or another and laugh when I tell them I'll be able to travel across the country for free for life of the car. They just can't believe that it will ever happen for one reason or another. They want to just keep buying oil products and don't see how it's changing the world or even attempt to see the forest for the trees. But all of them want a ride in it and I would imagine that when they do they too will add this car to their list when looking to buy their next primary automobile as it's second to none and will be for years to come. NOTE: I've converted two of them into reservation holders and I'm working on several more :wink:
So I believe it's people like us who are reaching, stretching and making this amazing leap of faith (albeit a very informed leap of faith) in something which is being brought to market 10 to 15 years (in my estimation) before other major automakers could even dream of delivering such a vast and connected set of charging hubs. And to do it for a calculated net addition to the grid is something truly spectacular.
Now, about the SCing sign. Whose idea was that?:biggrin:�
Sep 30, 2012
Brian H Elon's. He's really big on alien technology being dropped into the stagnant homo sapiens pond, and watching the ripples (tidal waves).�
Sep 30, 2012
Norbert Well we heard from someone (vfx?) that the current "rocket-ship" design is not the original "alien" design which Elon was talking about. I'm curious what it looked like.�
Sep 30, 2012
Morristhecat This is all great for signed reservation S60 holders, but it still fails quite a few of us that are reservation holders based upon the website saying supercharging is included for S60 but were not given the opportunity to finalize the order. I am quite disappointed. Had I been given the oportunity to be a signed S60 holder, I would be in this group. However due to the order backlog, I am not.
I am stretching is quite a bit to be in a position to order an S60, and in June I got on the reservation list. Then Canadian pricing came out and my cost went up 6.1% (through no fault of Tesla) and we were forced (by Tesla) to pay a bit more for a seat upgrade. That hurt and made me really consider going to an S40, but I figured I'll stick with it in order to obtain supercharging and a bit more range for the "once in a blue moon" long drive - since the website said it was included. Now, since us Canadian S60 reservation holders are behind many others, and there is no way any of us could have had signed documents let alone finalized the order, we get nailed for another cost. I am seriously wondering if this is the straw that breaks the camels back for me...
George, I know you are trying to do your best here & run a profitable business, but if you are going to grandfather additional costs, you should grandfather all reservation holders prior to the date last week when you changed the documentation online. Had Tesla not had so much of a backlog, I wouldn't be affected by this snaffu. Good for Tesla, bad for a bunch of us....�
Sep 30, 2012
Norbert However you now get the charges themselves free, for lifetime, something you were not promised or encouraged to expect, in the short time frame within which the website said something else than "TBD" about the super-charging Hardware/Software for the 60 kWh battery.�
Sep 30, 2012
vfx Not me. Though of course they went though dozens of designs. I'm actually cool with the current shape. As a big fan of rocket ships, it's all I see. "Sometimes a charge is just a charge."
�
Sep 30, 2012
spatterso911 I confess, it was me. I heard it straight from Elon. Design was finalized about 3 days prior to the event.�
Sep 30, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla In the interest of all the alien talk, a huge "lesek" to GeorgeB and Tesla! May you live long and prosper!
Now, I get my leather seats back
�
Oct 1, 2012
jerry33 Thanks George. Even though I'm shooting for the 85 kWh battery, I'm relieved that Tesla is doing the right thing.�
Oct 1, 2012
Citizen-T You still have the opportunity to change your configuration to make it more affordable or get your reservation money back. I see no reason at all that you deserve the same treatment as those that locked in without this information.�
Oct 1, 2012
kevincwelch Yes.
As disappointing as it is to me and others who will have to upgrade to the 85 kWh or pay additional fees as 60 kWh buyers, it really is fair. This is something Tesla should have done (and did) to make it right with current contractually obligated buyers.
While it may have been misleading to advertise one thing and then do another, everyone who hasn't signed a MVPA can back out and get his refund, downgrade the battery, lose an option or some combination of the prior to make ends meet.�
Oct 1, 2012
AnOutsider With that thinking, maybe they should grandfather everyone back to when it said TBD instead? Tesla offered an (unneeded imho) olive branch to appease those who got caught up in the site changes. Lets not ruin it with a bunch of "what about me's".�
Oct 1, 2012
efusco I'm thinking they should grandfather all of us that were told 2012 for Model S delivery 3 1/2 years ago into a free Performance upgrade ! <j>
We love you George!�
Oct 1, 2012
JakeP I second this motion!
Seriously, even as an 85kWh guy, this kind of response from Tesla makes me feel very comfortable in having plunked down a large sum for a car I will use for interstate travel, on a mere promise of a Supercharger network. Tesla is a company that is doing the right thing, and strives to do it the best they can, for the good of the customers. Thanks GB!�
Oct 1, 2012
contaygious Totally suprised Tesla is willing to do this. Hope not too many people canceled prematurely.�
Oct 1, 2012
mnx Only 4 pages? How come we can fill 25 pages of *complaining* when only a few dozen can say thank you?
Thanks George/Tesla for making the situation right. Huge thumbs up! (and this doesn't even effect me since I'm getting the perf)�
Oct 1, 2012
vfx
This is what I thought. A second note of gratitude to George and team, for analysing the timeline and communication, determining while they were "mostly right", saw how their message was not entirely clear and acted in the best possible way for their customers.�
Oct 1, 2012
tdelta1000 Way cool Mr. B and two thumbs to Tesla Motors for going far beyond our expectations.�
Oct 1, 2012
Robert.Boston Once again, Tesla shows it is a class act. (Of course, it would have been far better not to have gotten in a position from which a graceful retreat was called for.)�
Oct 1, 2012
Mycroft Definitely the correct decision to take care of folks who locked in without having this information to make an informed decision. At least one of them might have wanted to spend $9k more to upgrade to 85kWh if they had had this information. This decision should take ALL the sting out of it.
Going forward, prospective purchasers will need to decide. IMHO, the decision is between a 40kWh around-town luxury car and an 85kWh road-trippable car. $2k is too much for the "just-in-case" or the "resale value" scenarios.�
Oct 1, 2012
kevincwelch Well, not to minimize your point, but the "other" thread was started 5 days ago. This thread is 15 hours old. At that rate, this thread *could* overtake the other thread...could, anyway.
But, I'll voice my thanks again: Thanks!�
Oct 1, 2012
Tommy We all know the adage about making an "assumption"; and in this case, if there is any fault to find in Tesla's pricing announcement of the SC, it is that they assumed the reservation holders knew there would be a SC fee involved. My kudos as well to Elon, GB and the leadership at Tesla that effectively did a mea culpa and remedied those that felt wronged. Exemplary customer service.�
Oct 1, 2012
sublimaze1 Thank you, Tesla. Thank you George. Thank you Elon. Thank you, Board or Executives.
I recall an email from George that stated he had been up until 5:30am answering emails and returning phone calls. Just like where I work, it only takes a few bad situations to turn us all into a bunch of third graders. But (like a concerned caring parent), Tesla let us voice our laundry and decided on a plan of action.
Now
Business model it makes perfect sense: let's say that X of us have the 60kWh. And x is 2500. Y is the total number of 60kWh that Tesla will sell over Z years. With those variables uncertain (my crystal ball is broken and the psychic beanie baby on my computer screen is for show only) one would postulate that the number of people that were relieved to hear this may be that x, or 2500. The other variables may place the 60kWh owners (future owners) into the tens of thousands and, as such, this move "cost" the company less than 10% (more likely less than 2 or 3%) of their revenue for - what?
For happy customers who talk about their car (they don't even have) on a daily basis.
Small advertizing price to pay. Small pennance for a wrong decision for a fledgling company.
Again, thank you all in upper management.
Regards
WJ
P188
McKinney, Texas (85kWh, but still loves a good battle of missives)
(typed very fastly like with no spell checking ...)�
Oct 1, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla Tesla closed the loop with this email now - thanks again, GB and Tesla! (this time from a human; my Vulcan self spoke last night!)
�
Oct 1, 2012
joefee Nice�the "Tesla Way� becomes legend !
(P.S. any fix for the Sig tax? :redface
Joe (Fee) Fiorelli�
Oct 1, 2012
RDoc This is very welcome news to those of us trying to evaluate Tesla's trustworthiness. They do need to complete the pricing transparency though by stating what the cost to maintain the battery warranty after 4 years will be.�
Oct 1, 2012
smorgasbord Good show, Tesla.�
Oct 1, 2012
Iz Thank You George, Elon & Tesla. Just received an email indicating the fee is waived. I and perhaps others had already clicked on the "Add Supercharging Access" button in the first email message. Looking forward to P1431 later this year.�
Oct 1, 2012
MikeK George,
Kudos for this generous gesture. As one of the folks affected, I find it over and above what was required. Indeed, I was delighted with the original announcement, so this is a most unexpected and happy surprise.
Thanks!�
Oct 1, 2012
palmer_md Tesla continues to impress me with their professionalism. Keep up the great work.�
Oct 1, 2012
rolosrevenge But it's actually perfect for me since I have a known long trip (170 miles) several times a year that will pass through a super charger location. An 85 kWh pack wouldn't need the super charger and a 60 kWh pack is necessary to make the journey. To make it without hypermiling (since it is over two sets of mountains) a supercharger is required.
Anyways. Thanks George B and all of Tesla. This was the right decision. Though, anyone who was following closely knew there was going to be a fee for the super charger (I never expected there to not be), so I sympathize with your assumptions.�
Oct 1, 2012
Chas F Well played George (and the rest of the Tesla team).
I have been one of the most vocal critics of the way this was originally handled, most of my frustration coming from a feeling of being deceived and that I could no longer afford the 60kw version. Now that I've had time to reflect, this absolutely the correct solution. Even though I have not yet signed an MVPA and won't benefit from this remedy, I am pleased to know I will be able to trust Tesla to do the right thing in the future. Thanks for reinstilling the faith.
I will still thoroughly enjoy my new 40kw!�
Oct 1, 2012
bonnie Nice, Chas ... nice.�
Oct 1, 2012
Larry Chanin George,
Thanks for your candid responses. Like others I applaud you and Elon. This was a very class act!
Larry�
Oct 1, 2012
DonD As one of those who finalized my build (P5250) for the 60kWh model, I was really stressed when I received my Friday night email informing me of the $1000 cost to enable SuperCharging. While Tesla's offer to split the $2000 cost with me seamed fair, I was still disappointed, and sure that I would have to pass on that feature (because of the announced cost of annual maintenance). Wow - what a difference today made! Customer service above and beyond anything I would have expected from a car company! Thank you does not even begin to cover it.�
Oct 1, 2012
Mike_Schlechter I am, once again, beyond impressed with the responsiveness and openness from Tesla. While I'm an 85kWh reservation holder, I was not sure I liked how this went down. This shows me how responsive and focused Tesla is on the customer and makes me pleased as a reservation holder (P457), share holder and enthusiast.
Truly, well done.
You saw a perceived issue, responded and fixed it.
You can't please all of the people all of the time, but you sure do try hard!�
Oct 1, 2012
Todd Burch Good to see the class coming from both sides!�
Oct 1, 2012
NigelM Because "thank you" is only two words while a complaint is, well, more than two words.�
Oct 1, 2012
shokunin Because it only affects the those who have configured/signed MVPA's with 60kw packs. By my guesstimate is less than 700 configurations so far. So in essence Tesla's "eating" 700K. The rest of us complainers are complaining about charges/changes that are applicable to much wider audience.
4 pages per 700 reservation holders is a much higher ratio than 25 pages for 10,000 reservation holders.�
Oct 1, 2012
vfx Times 2�
Oct 1, 2012
ModelS1079
George, this is super for so many, and for Tesla. Many buying a 60kWh Model S were likely reaching from a budget that better supported a 40kWh Model S and the extra cost to supercharge requiring a commitment on such short notice was just tough. Really great news, and beyond fair - this is is remarkable example of a company reaching out to its core customers. Bravo! So enjoyed meeting you in Natick, Mass last Thursday. To the future -�
Oct 1, 2012
Zextraterrestrial Excellent! Thank You G (& E + ?) ! You all deserve something special ;>
Can't wait for Christmas this year - a first in maybe 30 years or so�
Oct 1, 2012
aviators99 I also want to congratulate Tesla for doing the right thing here.�
Oct 2, 2012
spleen Class act, Tesla is. Rewarded, they will be with much brand loyalty.�
Oct 2, 2012
ddruz Along with spleen, another Mahalo from Hawaii. Posted a big thank you on the Tesla forum yesterday as well.�
Oct 2, 2012
loganss Wow. Kudos to Tesla for going above and beyond.
I didn't think they needed to go this route but the fact that they did speaks volumes for their reputation.�
Oct 2, 2012
Johann Koeber As a shareholder I can say:
Thanks for doing the right thing. Tesla does and should distinguish itself from other car companies.
Keep up the good communication.�
Oct 8, 2012
ohaq I upgraded to 60kWh because i thought supercharger was included free, now going back to 40kWh.�
Oct 8, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla The 60 kWh SC story was featured in this Fool article: Tesla Magic - GM, TSLA, TM - Foolish Blogging Network�
Oct 8, 2012
Mycroft Excerpt:Not a very accurately clear story, but any positive press ...�
Oct 8, 2012
Trnsl8r I'll add my voice of commendation to GB and TM for correcting this so nicely, but also hope that they learn from mistakes. Relying on blogs and forums to paint a complete picture of pricing seems like a rookie mistake. A customer should be able to log in on Tesla's web site, go to the design studio and order a car. Last I checked there weren't any disclaimers like "also see our various forum and blog posts for complete pricing information". My best guess is that only 10% of TM's customers right now are geeks like us and track this, and even most people here seemed caught by surprise...
It's not about whether you make mistakes, everybody does that, but about how you handle the mistakes you make. TM... tip of the hat to you.�
Nov 30, 2012
ljwobker I'm not a tesla owner, not likely to be one any time soon (I have to survive the lease on my LEAF first...) but please please please please please never stop communicating frankly and openly with your most intense customers. The vast majority of them will understand business decisions if communicated openly. The fact that they (maybe "we" one day) don't necessarily agree is moot. They will disagree and respect you if you're open and honest. They will disagree and hate you and talk bad about you behind your back if you're cryptic and sneaky about it. Please print this and hang in every Tesla product manager's office/cubicle/space-capsule/whatever. ;-)�
Dec 1, 2012
SuperCoug I've been stewing on this particular issue for a while and I finally think I'll chime in. As a reservation holder who was going to buy a 60 KWH car I was led to believe that Supercharger access was going to be free for the 60 KWH car BECAUSE IT SAID SO ON THEIR WEBSITE FOR WEEKS! The "TBD" had long been changed to "INCLUDED" and the fine print below the option said "includes the hardware and software needed for supercharger access". If we were in court I'd rest my case right there.
However, beyond the website it is important to know that the management at my local showroom told me in no uncertain terms that the Supercharger access was free for 60 KWH cars. In fact, he said "we have always known it would be, we were just testing the 60 kWH batteries to see if they could take the full charge or if they needed to be treated differently by the chargers".
Then we heard about the charge for the Supercharger access people went nuts and TM had to reconsider their position. The solution to include it free was the right choice but they didn't go far enough. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED JUST LIKE THE RECENT PRICE INCREASE. Everybody with a reservation should have been exempt from the charge for the Supercharger. It would have been the smart business move and it would have preserved the good will of the customers who has taken the leap of faith.
I don't expect many people to agree with me on this point and I know I'm setting myself up to get flamed but I don't think they handled this issue well at all. I would have gladly locked in my deposit on DAY ONE but obviously the timing on when we get to configure our car is out of our control. When my number came up I configured immediately but I did NOT include the supercharger. Mostly on principal (and probably to my detriment) but I just didn't like how this was handled.
There, I got it off my chest and I feel a bit better. One more thing: I do not believe that there is $2000 of hard costs associated with adding the Supercharger access to the car.�
Dec 2, 2012
DriverOne I agree in wishing that could be so. It sucks that another $8K gets you another 25kWh... and a very expensive car. The jump to 60kWh is comparatively very poor value at $10K for 20kWh. I'd have been happier even if they'd split the battery upgrade jumps in half - $9K to get the 60 upgrade, then $2K for the supercharger, then another $9K to get to 85kWh.�
Dec 3, 2012
pbrulott I can't agree more with you guys. Should have been included for the current reservation holders. I had even created a thread at the time TM changed the 60kWh Supercharger web site to "hardware included" saying thanks to TM...
don't htink it is going to change anything. I assume the rate of cancellation due to suprise price increases is low compared to new reservation coming in. Doubt us being unhappy will change anything. Suprises like supercharger cost, Canadian pricing premium, Service.�
Dec 3, 2012
pekap I'm in total agreement. No matter how you phrase it or the careful language you pick, the fact is that the website Supercharger access went from "TBD" to "Included." George/Tesla, if you are listening, you have lost a $75,000 sale from me over this issue, and potentially many more. If it is rectified, I would hit the "Finalize" button the same day. For the simple principle of this bait and switch (much more so than the money), I cannot in good conscience purchase the Model S as it stands.�
Dec 3, 2012
dsm363 It said hardware and software included but did it say access to the network was included as well? I still agree they should find a way to make it work for current reservation holders up to the date they make the announcement.�
Dec 3, 2012
mnx That sounds like overkill, it only said included for what a month at the most?�
Dec 3, 2012
brianman Model S Options and Pricing | Tesla Motors
To my knowledge, this page has never said "included" for 60 kWh for the Supercharging section at the bottom.
My recollection is that it went from "TBD" to "$2,000".
I've always assumed the difference in the two sections was between Hardware and Service/Subscription. It seems that assumption was in line with Tesla's approach as well.
Regardless, I hope they can find a way to make you a happy buyer.
Edit:
----------------------------------------
Hardware
----------------------------------------
Software/Service/Subscription
�
Dec 3, 2012
markb1 I definitely went from "TBD" to "Included" to "$2,000".�
Dec 3, 2012
Kipernicus Yes, I remember that too. The question is what exactly was "Included"?
I don't think it was ever very clear.
- Hardware
- Software
- Access
Dec 3, 2012
teslasguy It said hardware and software included. I don't recall mention of any supercharger access fees.
Here's the rub that I posted about on here right before George posted that access would be free for all 60kw res. holders that had finalized as of that date.
It certainly appeared as though Tesla had decided to NOT install the hardware and software unless people paid the $2000.
That would have been a potential breach in my mind, certainly for anyone that had finalized.
What isn't so clear to me is what is happening to the people who had reservations, but hadn't yet finalized.
I know the fine print says they have the right to change pricing, yada yada...., but I don't know what if any legal implications it has for them to drop a feature commitment anytime up until finalizing, or even final payment.
I'd really like to know if in fact the 60kw cars are going to have the hardware and software installed as originally commited to, or are they dropping that if you don't pay the $2k?�
Dec 3, 2012
dsm363 I hope the hardware and software are included so people can change their minds down the road and gain access to the Superchargers easily by paying the $2,000.�
Dec 3, 2012
markb1 When they first announced the $2000 price increase, they told those of us who has already finalized that we'd get the hardware and software for no extra fee, but access (or the dubious "configuring the software" and "testing the interface", as they put it) would be $1000. For everyone else, it would be $2000 for hardware+software+access. They also told us that if we didn't decide to pay for access right away, we would never be able to add it later.�
Dec 3, 2012
youlikeadajuice Here is a screen capture shot of the options page that I took before they changed the web page to reflect it as a $2000 option. It didn't differentiate here between hardware, software and access, but it did use the same "included" description as the 85. This would indicate that the 60 and the 85 would be the same.
�
Dec 3, 2012
markb1 Even though I was one of the lucky ones to get free supercharger access, and I don't think they owed free access to reservation holders who were not under contract, I think it's completely understandable to be upset about this. It's definitely a price increase, just like price increase that was recently announced across the board, and I wonder why they didn't handle it the same way.
- - - Updated - - -
Also, in the design studio at the time, they said hardware and software were included.�
Dec 3, 2012
Robert.Boston So if you reserved your car in the brief window when the 60kWh pack said "included", you might have a case (but the remedy is simply to cancel your reservation). As I recall, that window was at most two weeks. If you reserved while it still said "TBD", then I think you have no standing -- you were willing to reserve with that component undecided.�
Dec 3, 2012
brianman @youlikeadajuice and others - That's not the section I was referring to. Reread my post and then revisit the Options page.
I've added images to my original post to hopefully help.�
Dec 3, 2012
youlikeadajuice I'm familiar with what you posted, you mentioned that to your recollection it went straight from "tbd" to "$2000"....what I posted clearly shows that there was an interim "included" as well. I suppose Tesla has every right to change their mind on something like that, but I was disappointed with how it was conveyed to customers. Doesn't much matter to me in the long run, I finalized tonight with the 60 and the supercharging option!�
Dec 3, 2012
brianman No, it does not. I wasn't talking about the part you screenshotted. Again, look at my original post. The green section, not the red one.�
Dec 3, 2012
youlikeadajuice I see your point in referencing the $2000 vs. TBD, however, I don't think I was the only one who felt misled when the section above said "included", especially after it said "tbd". Included doesn't generally imply optional...�
Dec 3, 2012
SuperCoug Absolutely right! There is really no way to sugar coat this. It's very simple: we went from "TBD" to "Included". Therefore, what was once "to be determined" had finally been determined and what they decided was that it would be INCLUDED. (The same way it was INCLUDED with the 85 KWH cars). That's it pure and simple.
Once they determine their course on a critical option like this I absolutely expected them to stand by it. If at a later date they have a change of heart and decide to make it an optional component for an additional charge that is fine but they needed to handle it the same way as the price increase is being handled.
The final resolution of giving free Supercharger configurations to only those customers who had signed agreements was far less than I expected. After all, relatively few people actually had signed agreements in place and the vast majority of those people were ordering 85 KWH cars. (In fact, I'd bet that the actual number of 60 KWH buyers who are getting Superchargers for free is probably less than 100)�
Dec 4, 2012
brianman No, it didn't. You're mixing up the green and red sections (see Supercharging and 60 kWh Model S Orders - Message from George B - Page 8). I realize the formatting is fail on the page and confusing because of it. But that's very different from what's been asserted.
Tesla makes plenty of mistakes on the web site, and I've put some forum cred on the line calling them out on it on more than one occasion.
There's no need to criticize them for imagined ones.
I realize you're unhappy with the way they've done the pricing, and you have a right to your feelings. But asserting something that isn't fact is where I take issue.
Perhaps you can have AnOutsider go dig up the history like he's done for deltas on the web site before.�
Dec 4, 2012
markb1 You are mistaken. Here are the screenshots I took on 9/28. It was "included" or "standard" everywhere. They did change the wording from "supercharging hardware" to simply "supercharging" when they announced the $2000 price increase.�
Dec 4, 2012
brianman Thanks, markb1. Good to see some solid evidence both sections (and the design page!) changed to "Included". First time I've seen that. Thanks for sharing the 09/28 screenies.
@youlikeadajuice and others - Mea culpa. Best bet is to forward along these screenshots to your Tesla contacts and see if they might budge on some accomodations. You definitely have a legitimate gripe given that screenshot.�
Dec 4, 2012
Robert.Boston I still think not. If you reserved when it said "TBD", you weren't "baited" into the reservation by the supposedly free SC equipment. Even if you did reserve in that period, you have a very simple remedy: cancel your reservation and get your money back.�
Dec 4, 2012
brianman I don't see it the same way.
During the transition from pre-reservation to reservation to finalization to delivery, the web site will be updated as more knowledge is publicly releasable. As such, it's reasonable to see "TBD" in a few spots that later gets refined to either "Included", "Optional", "$amount", etc. What's a problem (to me at least) is when a "TBD" gets "resolved" to "Included" (in a public/official fashion) and then later gets 'revised' to "less than Included".
TBD means "To Be Disclosed/Decided". Once it's left TBD and become something else, changing it again is not a good idea. Even more not a good idea without official notification in e-mail that there is a such a change. "Sleight of hand" web page edits that "easily go unnoticed" erodes trust, and leads to confusion and dismay.�
Dec 4, 2012
drees There is a huge difference between "supercharging hardware" and "supercharging".
The supercharging hardware cost is probably minimal. As a reference, Nissan charged $795 for CHAdeMO capability when the LEAF was first released. But either way, I never would have expected lifetime supercharging access included with the hardware alone.
A 30 minute Tesla supercharging session in California is worth $15-30 (extrapolating from the cost of a 50 kW CHAdeMO charging session).
If you are in a position to use the supercharger somewhat frequently, it is absolutely worth $2000 for lifetime access alone, disregarding the hardware/software Tesla needs to add to each Model S.
Now if you're in a situation where you had hoped to only occasionally use a Supercharger as a pay-as-you-go feature, that does suck. I still think it sucks that you can't get supercharger access at all on the 40 kWh cars - there's no technical reason why they wouldn't be able to supercharge at a rate corresponding to their lower battery capacity which would still be significantly faster than dual-charging at 20 kW when charging from near empty.�
Dec 4, 2012
brianman We have other threads on this already. I'll try to be brief.
The term "supercharging" is arguably meaningless when you water it down to as "low" as 20 kW.
What you really want (I think) is for an "HPWC level" charger to be available wherever the Supercharger stations are. I think that's totally reasonable, but calling it "supercharging, just with rate diminished" is kind of like saying "your car is exactly like mine except that it only has 2 wheels (and most sane people would call it a motorcycle)".�
Dec 4, 2012
mnx He said significantly faster than 20kW (ie. 1C or 40kW)
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Dec 4, 2012
gregincal I did reserve during that period, and configured a 60kWh in my garage. I was quite surprised to check back a week later and find my reserved car had increased by $2000 without me touching it. The "supercharger" checkbox was checked automatically when I selected 60, and remained checked with an extra $2000 associated with it when they changed the website. There was no notification either (I think they only sent an email to people that had already finalized).
That said, my response was to just change to the 85kWh battery.�
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