teslamotorclub: Spaceship like controls... hint from Model 3 Design sketches? part 1

I think I noticed it before but never mentioned it on the forums. In this sketch it seems like they have a cut top steering wheel design that appears to be mounted to a shaft. Maybe this could telescope down under the dash and out of sight. Just some thoughts, interested in what you all think this might signify, if anything, and if there's anyone who knows more about these types of steering wheels feel free to chime in. I at least know they seemed to go with that touchscreen design that is sketched here and remember a video clip the night of the reveal event where one of the engineers said they went back and forth about that screen and then decided to keep it and intended it for the final production design.
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If it's still a pencil-drawn sketch surely it's just early concept noodlings only?
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Musk said that the new steering controls have something to do with the lack of a traditional dashboard and instrument cluster. Does that mean that the steering wheel assembly itself integrates some of the instruments that would have been on a dash?
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I would love a cut steering wheel. I know some people were concerned about wheel:turn ratios, but hopefully electrical steering can alleviate that issue (lower speed, more aggressive wheel turn. high speeds, less wheel turn)
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That would really suck since you have to back into most superchargers.
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ZAKEEUS said: ?

That would really suck since you have to back into most superchargers.
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Unless superchargers become fully autonomous zones before other driving areas. Might help with congestion during peak usage, like holiday weekends.
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Chewy3 said: ?

I would love a cut steering wheel.
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Why? I personally really don't see the appeal of partial steering wheel so I would like to know why you think it would be so nice?
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As a person who typically drives with my left hand at the very top of the steering wheel, I'm hoping this is not the design. As I get older, I do find I'm not doing that as much any more though, especially on long drives.

I can't imagine taking a turn, going hand-over-hand on the steering wheel, and....there's nothing there to grab! Agree with Chewy3 above that the system would have to progressive steering rate to avoid this issue at low speeds
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BlairC said: ?

As a person who typically drives with my left hand at the very top of the steering wheel, I'm hoping this is not the design. As I get older, I do find I'm not doing that as much any more though, especially on long drives.

I can't imagine taking a turn, going hand-over-hand on the steering wheel, and....there's nothing there to grab! Agree with Chewy3 above that the system would have to progressive steering rate to avoid this issue at low speeds
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If it's progressive in rotation, I think it could be just fine, and so that's what I'm hoping for. I would love to not need to rotate the whole steering wheel.
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I think Tesla could design a steering system that would make it possible to do sharp turns with a "cut" steering wheel, but the technique would be so different from what everyone is used to except for F1 drivers that I do not think it would be a success with the car-buying public. See An Inside Look at the Insanely Complex Formula 1 Steering Wheel
But it is interesting to think about what could be done with an extremely simplified version of this type of wheel, with a display in the center and a progressive steering ratio.

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The cut steering wheel could suggest Tesla was aiming for maximum windshield visibility. When holding the cut steering wheel there's a slightly better view of the dash and windshield than a traditional steering wheel, as there's nothing blocking the view. Maybe they designed it with the HUD in mind. The cut steering wheel also makes it necessary to place both hands on the wheel instead of driving with one hand on the top. I know driving with hands placed in the 10 and 2 position is not something I regularly do, but this steering wheel seems to make it necessary to do so. With all that said, I do not think the cut steering wheel will be in the standard production model because it is too race-y and sport-ish, but it could be an option. Certainly it would fit with the spaceship feel comment.
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The pressure-sensitive sidestick of an F-16 moves nearly not at all, yet the jet is the very definition of nimble. It accomplishes this (and has for a long time) through fly by wire. There's no "killing snakes" stick motion needed in the cockpit, just pressure.
In that way, the steering wheel in a car with drive by wire could remain nearly fixed, yet offer a full range of wheel lock to lock motion. It could even offer a center display that wouldn't have to be engineered to remain stable and readable. It would basically never move.
Robin
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Trips said: ?

In the picture EM tweeted yesterday you can clearly see a non-round steering wheel and a different front end.
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EM originally tweeted the picture back in April. I think the general opinion back then was mixed. I am all for the unique oval control center.

Info and Hints from Elon Tweets
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Lem89 said: ?

The cut steering wheel could suggest Tesla was aiming for maximum windshield visibility.
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Seems like from the demo cars at the reveal, the top of the dash is very low, which would increase visibility, and the cut steering wheel would certainly help that.

The other factor I was thinking of is airbags. If you keep your hands at the top of the wheel then you put your self at risk for air bag related injuries. Putting your hands at the top of the wheel positions your hand and arms between your head and the airbag. If the air bag goes off, your hand and arm can be shoved into your face leading to broken bones/fingers/teeth/nose,etc. Cutting the top off would force people to hold the wheel correctly, and not obstruct the airbag.
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trils0n said: ?

Seems like from the demo cars at the reveal, the top of the dash is very low, which would increase visibility, and the cut steering wheel would certainly help that.

The other factor I was thinking of is airbags. If you keep your hands at the top of the wheel then you put your self at risk for air bag related injuries. Putting your hands at the top of the wheel positions your hand and arms between your head and the airbag. If the air bag goes off, your hand and arm can be shoved into your face leading to broken bones/fingers/teeth/nose,etc. Cutting the top off would force people to hold the wheel correctly, and not obstruct the airbag.
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So let's create more trouble than it's worth just so we can try to force people to do something. The dash is very low because, like they stated in the demo rides, so they could bring the front seats as close as the front as possible.
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jkk_ said: ?

The dash is very low because, like they stated in the demo rides, so they could bring the front seats as close as the front as possible.
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I think you misunderstood. The dash is low to improve visibility. The cabin / front seats are more forward oriented (cab forward design) to maximize interior space.
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Here's a nice writeup on FBW (fly by wire) sidesticks.
Active Sidestick Controls Make Commercial Debut
One big plus is that it allows for fine tuning the "steering experience" though software. Sound familiar?
Robin
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I hope this would be optional if it is the case. I can see this being a deal breaker for people since it's too much of a departure (esp. the idea of a F1 style steering). The screen is already in the border for acceptance, but this involves something people are even more used to.
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stopcrazypp said: ?

I hope this would be optional if it is the case. I can see this being a deal breaker for people since it's too much of a departure (esp. the idea of a F1 style steering). The screen is already in the border for acceptance, but involves something people are even more used to.
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They'll only do it if it improves the driving experience, and if that is the case, I can't wait. I will say that I often feel (especially in a straight line) that the top 25% of the steering wheel does nothing except get in the way. I know it's a big change, but I'm excited about this.
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Booga said: ?

They'll only do it if it improves the driving experience, and if that is the case, I can't wait. I will say that I often feel (especially in a straight line) that the top 25% of the steering wheel does nothing except get in the way. I know it's a big change, but I'm excited about this.
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I'm just saying that given this car is supposed to be for a larger audience, and Elon promised to not be too adventurous, this might be a bad idea.
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Booga said: ?

They'll only do it if it improves the driving experience, and if that is the case, I can't wait. I will say that I often feel (especially in a straight line) that the top 25% of the steering wheel does nothing except get in the way. I know it's a big change, but I'm excited about this.
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Maybe you haven't adjusted your driving position correctly if the wheel is in the way? Not trying to be rude but that's something that really isn't an issue for me.

And driving in straight line isn't the issue, it's the turns when you need the wheel
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I sure hope it's not like what was done in 1982. I read from somewhere that the Hoff hated driving the damn yoke.

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Pando said: ?

I sure hope it's not like what was done in 1982. I read from somewhere that the Hoff hated driving the damn yoke.

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Oh my god, how did you get sneak peek of the spaceship-like model 3 controls!? I hope you don't get fired from Tesla Motors!

(don't worry, I do know my Knight Rider) I can understand that it wasn't probably nice to drive, we could see many times in shots how he had to turn the "wheel" over many times and when you have so little space to grab on it'll be pain.
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N5329K said: ?

Here's a nice writeup on FBW (fly by wire) sidesticks.
Active Sidestick Controls Make Commercial Debut
One big plus is that it allows for fine tuning the "steering experience" though software. Sound familiar?
Robin
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HA! Directly quoted from that article : "Removing the control yokes allows for larger flight displays and�in the latest cockpits�pilots can be moved closer to the instrument panels, allowing use of touchscreens."
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DrivingTheFuture said: ?

I think I noticed it before but never mentioned it on the forums. In this sketch it seems like they have a cut top steering wheel design that appears to be mounted to a shaft. Maybe this could telescope down under the dash and out of sight. Just some thoughts, interested in what you all think this might signify, if anything, and if there's anyone who knows more about these types of steering wheels feel free to chime in. I at least know they seemed to go with that touchscreen design that is sketched here and remember a video clip the night of the reveal event where one of the engineers said they went back and forth about that screen and then decided to keep it and intended it for the final production design. View attachment 181639
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Exactly what I was thinking, hidden steering wheel! He does say huge focus on Autonomous!
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RMartens said: ?

Exactly what I was thinking, hidden steering wheel! He does say huge focus on Autonomous!
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He's also stated that they have no intention of taking away the ability of people to drive. Granted, hidden steering wheel by itself doesn't remove that ability but I'd rather just but my hands on the wheel (well, at this point they should never be off the wheel) and take over than wait for 30 seconds for the controls to present themselves.

For me, it just feels like a party trick that gets old really quick.
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I was thinking retractable wheel, but that will never happen-too much cost.
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tsla007 said: ?

I was thinking retractable wheel, but that will never happen-too much cost.
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Cost is negligible for a retractable wheel on a drive by wire system. The more important factor jkk_ touched on was the danger it poses when you need to take over immediately in an emergency situation.

Google gets away with not having a wheel because the cars go at super low speeds and have no balls.
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Having flown aircraft with sidestick controls it really is a lot more intuitive than people would think. Completely opens up the area in front of the pilot (driver) for whatever information you might want to put there (HUD, whatever). Yes, it would be a big jump from what people are used to seeing in a car but it really is a much more relaxed position to steer since your arm naturally rests at your side, not raised in front of you.

We'll see what comes down the pike.

Dan
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Dan Detweiler said: ?

Having flown aircraft with sidestick controls it really is a lot more intuitive than people would think. Completely opens up the area in front of the pilot (driver) for whatever information you might want to put there (HUD, whatever). Yes, it would be a big jump from what people are used to seeing in a car but it really is a much more relaxed position to steer since your arm naturally rests at your side, not raised in front of you.

We'll see what comes down the pike.

Dan
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Maybe the pre-order gift is complimentary lessons that will be required for one to be certified model 3 pilot

Edit: I'm just wondering how well those sidestick controls would work in sudden situations. I'd reckon that when you are scared you easily overreact which might cause the car to drive off road. On the sky there are [citation needed] less things that will suddenly jump in front of you and cause you to be alarmed. Also there's a lot less obstacles to hit in the air than on ground [citation needed].
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Trips said: ?

EM originally tweeted the picture back in April. I think the general opinion back then was mixed. I am all for the unique oval control center.

Info and Hints from Elon Tweets
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I pray that its an option and not the standard.
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Dan Detweiler said: ?

Having flown aircraft with sidestick controls it really is a lot more intuitive than people would think. Completely opens up the area in front of the pilot (driver) for whatever information you might want to put there (HUD, whatever). Yes, it would be a big jump from what people are used to seeing in a car but it really is a much more relaxed position to steer since your arm naturally rests at your side, not raised in front of you.

We'll see what comes down the pike.

Dan
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Same here, rated on an Airbus with the sidestick and fly by wire. BUT i have to say i loved the controls on the Boeing plane before.
During windy approaches much better handling und even FUN! With the Airbus and so many computers between your sidestick input and the outcome at the control surfaces its sometimes (in adverse weather cond.) much more challenging to get the airplane doing what YOU want and not what the flight computers want.
Ok, now back to topic - sorry ;-)
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Dan Detweiler said: ?

Having flown aircraft with sidestick controls it really is a lot more intuitive than people would think. Completely opens up the area in front of the pilot (driver) for whatever information you might want to put there (HUD, whatever). Yes, it would be a big jump from what people are used to seeing in a car but it really is a much more relaxed position to steer since your arm naturally rests at your side, not raised in front of you.

We'll see what comes down the pike.

Dan
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since new tesla drivers (and not so new) seem not to find the accelerator and brake pedals intuitive, I would hesitate to assume a totally different style of steering "wheel" would work for the general public
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I think what many of you are talking about falls into what Elon would call a "weirdmobile", which he explicitly stated he will not build. Given that, i expect no side stick for certain and find it extremely unlikely to have a cut steering wheel. Design drawings like these really need to be taken with a grain of salt and i think many of you are putting too much stock in them.
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Mercedes made a lot of tests with sidestick driving in simulators and with prototypes. Turns out that the results were quite positive, especially amongst young drivers. Here's an old Video:

I wouldn't mind a sidestick. Sure would take a little time to get used to, but you know what? That's what Progress feels like

�If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.� Henry Ford
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I've seen a lot of handicap minivans with joysticks...

What happens with left handed people in the US or right handed people in Europe? I guess it's a moot point because the Model 3 isn't drive by wire so sidestick / joy stick is not an option.
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In the future we don't need controls. Elon just needs to develop a cerebral interface...

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Pure speculation here but I think every car I've ever been in, the driver must look through the top part of steering wheel to see the instrument cluster. Maybe they'll just move the gauges to a smaller LCD on the steering wheel. It would have the same functionality as the model S binnacle at a reduced cost for a smaller screen. Turning wouldn't be an issue because people don't look at their instruments in the middle of a turn. You can't see the instruments in a normal configuration while turning anyway. The orientation would be right side up when people would actually use it.
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A pressure-sensitive steering wheel that hardly moved at all would function identically to a sidestick and without the weirdness, or at least, without most of the weirdness. No right hand left hand issues either. But, it would depend on a drive by wire system and I'm not sure that's entirely legal yet. Might still require manual reversion.
Robin
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Burnardr said: ?

Pure speculation here but I think every car I've ever been in, the driver must look through the top part of steering wheel to see the instrument cluster.
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Prius certainly is an exception. I have one, and it doesn't bother me one bit. By not constraining the instruments behind the wheel, they can use a smaller steering wheel, which I actually like quite a bit, and it can sit lower.

But, I would not like the devil-horned steering wheel on the M3 concept drawing with the top part missing.

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MB30 said: ?

I think what many of you are talking about falls into what Elon would call a "weirdmobile", which he explicitly stated he will not build. Given that, i expect no side stick for certain and find it extremely unlikely to have a cut steering wheel. Design drawings like these really need to be taken with a grain of salt and i think many of you are putting too much stock in them.
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This is great news if its true.
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peigenmann said: ?

Mercedes made a lot of tests with sidestick driving in simulators and with prototypes. Turns out that the results were quite positive, especially amongst young drivers. Here's an old Video:

I wouldn't mind a sidestick. Sure would take a little time to get used to, but you know what? That's what Progress feels like

�If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.� Henry Ford
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OMG....I would kill my self with a sneeze.
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Burnardr said: ?

Maybe they'll just move the gauges to a smaller LCD on the steering wheel.
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So I'd have to take my eyes even further off the road?

Steering wheels with radio and volume control buttons often have small bumps for the same reason F and J keys on a keyboard have bumps, so you can feel where you are without looking. Making a driver not only look further from the road, but also try to refocus on a closer object, is a recipe for disaster (especially for the older crowd that can't focus up close).
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Yeah, no screens on the steering wheel, no thanks.

I don't believe that they would just stick the 15" ipad to the center of the console and call it a day like they showed at the reveal. I think they would try to utilize the long horizontal strip running along the far edge of the dashboard. Perhaps the area above the steering wheel could contain a transparent OLED screen, perhaps a pop-up, perhaps some sort of hybrid HUD.
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Pando said: ?

Yeah, no screens on the steering wheel, no thanks.

I don't believe that they would just stick the 15" ipad to the center of the console and call it a day like they showed at the reveal. I think they would try to utilize the long horizontal strip running along the far edge of the dashboard. Perhaps the area above the steering wheel could contain a transparent OLED screen, perhaps a pop-up, perhaps some sort of hybrid HUD.
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I love this idea. This would be perfect.
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Pando said: ?

I think they would try to utilize the long horizontal strip running along the far edge of the dashboard.
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That's the HVAC slot. HUD it is then
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Adrien said: ?

That's the HVAC slot. HUD it is then
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OMG No!!!!

Move the HVAC slot. HUD is horrible. There is no HUD that works well when facing the sun.
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JeffK said: ?

So I'd have to take my eyes even further off the road?

Steering wheels with radio and volume control buttons often have small bumps for the same reason F and J keys on a keyboard have bumps, so you can feel where you are without looking. Making a driver not only look further from the road, but also try to refocus on a closer object, is a recipe for disaster (especially for the older crowd that can't focus up close).
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No you wouldn't have to move your eyes further away than you already do. Currently you have to look through the upper portion of the steering wheel to see the gauge cluster. That's where the LCD could go. Basically in the hollow area right above the airbag.
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Garlan Garner said: ?

OMG No!!!!

Move the HVAC slot. HUD is horrible. There is no HUD that works well when facing the sun.
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I hear you on the sun making it unusable, but the HUD is a very real possibility. Let's hope whatever happens it's well implemented. Whatever it is we know it won't be normal. With all the hints from Elon, it just can't be.
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Adrien said: ?

I hear you on the sun making it unusable, but the HUD is a very real possibility. Let's hope whatever happens it's well implemented. Whatever it is we know it won't be normal. With all the hints from Elon, it just can't be.
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It can't be too abnormal for $35K
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Adrien said: ?

I hear you on the sun making it unusable, but the HUD is a very real possibility. Let's hope whatever happens it's well implemented. Whatever it is we know it won't be normal. With all the hints from Elon, it just can't be.
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Yeah - I trust Elon to do whatever is right with this car. He has his whole company riding on it, and so he will have thought out each decision and considered many scenarios in which it will be used. The guy can put satellites into space after all...
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Garlan Garner said: ?

It can't be too abnormal for $35K
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The whole car is abnormal compared to the rest of the auto industry.
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Burnardr said: ?

No you wouldn't have to move your eyes further away than you already do.
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Actually I drive a Toyota Prius which has everything above the wheel... no looking through the wheel at anything.
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Booga said: ?

The whole car is abnormal compared to the rest of the auto industry.
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True, however what I meant was that Tesla cant make it too wild and spaceship like for $35K
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JeffK said: ?

Actually I drive a Toyota Prius which has everything above the wheel... no looking through the wheel at anything.
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I also have a Prius (V) and it took a little while to get used to looking at the display in the center of the dashboard towards the windshield.
Now I find whenever I drive my wife's Acura looking thru the steering wheel to be distracting and a much worse UI. People will adapt quickly to whatever the Model 3 has.
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aronth5 said: ?

I also have a Prius (V) and it took a little while to get used to looking at the display in the center of the dashboard towards the windshield.
Now I find whenever I drive my wife's Acura looking thru the steering wheel to be distracting and a much worse UI. People will adapt quickly to whatever the Model 3 has.
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This, absolutely.

Some of these decisions could be controversial, but I'm sure that if Tesla puts it in there, it's with good reason. I'm not concerned with their decision making and so I assume that I'll get used to whatever they provide.
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Garlan Garner said: ?

It can't be too abnormal for $35K
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I would not assume that Elon's "spaceship" controls will be standard on the base $35K Model 3.

The Model 3 could be a very usable car with just the center screen display.
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ecarfan said: ?

I would not assume that Elon's "spaceship" controls will be standard on the base $35K Model 3.

The Model 3 could be a very usable car with just the center screen display.
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My current objective is to order every option on the M3 upwards to $60K however if a spaceship steering wheel on the rendering is an option....then I certainly won't be ordering "every" option.
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ecarfan said: ?

The Model 3 could be a very usable car with just the center screen display.
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Sure, but not so much if/when you want to monitor what autopilot is sensing and doing.
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JeffK said: ?

Sure, but not so much if/when you want to monitor what autopilot is sensing and doing.
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Which is why I think that the AP option on the 3 will offer an additional display of some type...
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ecarfan said: ?

Which is why I think that the AP option on the 3 will offer an additional display of some type...
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What does AP mean?
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Garlan Garner said: ?

What does AP mean?
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autopilot
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Change is always difficult. 'You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time". Moving towards automous vechicles requires vision and change. EM has both. I have more faith in what Tesla will come up with than any other car company in the next 2-3 years. Some level of automous driving capabilities will be standard in the M3 and most likely more $ buys increased functionality. If you are not interested in this, why are you considering a M3? I am looking forward to the next iteration in this process. The physical car, driving experience, and functionality with automous driving should "blend" to deliver a complete package and experience. To say that today's ICE layout is the optimal solution lacks vision.

IMHO
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if by "it feels like a spaceship" he meant it feels like the SpaceX steering controls, it could be something like this

an example of joystick controls in the real world

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ecarfan said: ?

I would not assume that Elon's "spaceship" controls will be standard on the base $35K Model 3.
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I would. It makes zero sense to have two entirely different driving platforms.
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ETravel said: ?

Change is always difficult. 'You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time". Moving towards automous vechicles requires vision and change. EM has both. I have more faith in what Tesla will come up with than any other car company in the next 2-3 years. Some level of automous driving capabilities will be standard in the M3 and most likely more $ buys increased functionality. If you are not interested in this, why are you considering a M3? I am looking forward to the next iteration in this process. The physical car, driving experience, and functionality with automous driving should "blend" to deliver a complete package and experience. To say that today's ICE layout is the optimal solution lacks vision.

IMHO
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Because I want to move away from burning fuel within my car when I am driving. I'd also rather not burn gas. That means that currently the only appealing vehicle within my price point is the model 3 - and even that isn't available for purchase yet. I also like to drive which is why Elon's comment (maybe someone remembers where he said it and we can have source) about how they are NOT going to away people's freedom of driving reassured me a lot.

I got the feeling from your post that if someone likes to drive, they should do so in an ICE since autonomous driving is "the thing" with the model 3. I disagree. In my opinion "the thing" in the model 3 is that it brings appealing (BEV) alternative to a more reasonable price point.
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FlatSix911 said: ?

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Sketch of MS also had something different from the actual one. (touchscreen frames, front grills, and vanish-able(!!) steering wheel)
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My prediction is that "spaceship" controls probably just means a bunch of extra buttons and limited information display on steering wheel. It is very unlikely a car such as Tesla Model 3 which is essentially a performance EV, will do away with the precision maneuverability offered by a conventional steering wheel.

Can you imagine driving at 80mph with your hands on that joystick - the slightest sneeze will send that car catapulting out of control.

We do get carried away in all directions sometimes but stick to first principles, common sense, and you can easily identify the impossible from what is actually possible.
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how about a johnny cab joystick? LOL.
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There is one significant problem with a vehicle joystick control that the right-handed majority tend to be unawaRE OF: in left hand drive cars with a joystick center mounted, that's fine for right-handlers but many left-handers will face a steep learning curve for a safety critical skill. And for right hand drive cars, most right-handlers will freak out faced with the prospect of trying to control their car with their left hand. And I do not see it as feasible to design cars with dual joysticks, one in the center and one mounted on the door.

Estimates are that 5 to 30 percent of humans are left handed, depening on how that is defined, and there are disputes about that definition, see Why are more people right-handed?

I am left handed but also somewhat ambidextrous, e.g. I can easily use a computer mouse with my right hand, and swing a baseball bat and golf club in a right-handed manner. I think I could learn to use a vehicle joystick with my right hand. But many left handlers likely would find it difficult.

Bottom line for me is that Tesla is not going to offer a joystick control in the Model 3.

Note: saying that many planes offer a joystick control and it works fine is not relevant to cars, since planes require extensive specialized training to fly, whereas cars by comparison require minimal instruction to receive a license and their use is a nearly essential part of modern life but only a tiny percentage of the population has a pilot's license, which is a luxury not a necessity.

McHoffa said: ?

an example of joystick controls in the real world

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I strongly believe that there will NOT be a joystick... just FYI. The thread is starting to be all about joysticks.
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tsla007 said: ?

how about a johnny cab joystick? LOL.
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I'd want the Robert Picardo robot too.
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I've been trying for a month to switch from a mouse to a trackball and can not make it work for one reason or another (mostly migraine related shaky hands I've decided). Seems like it should be an easy transition, but muscle memory overrides what logically should work. Think it'd be similar with the car steering.
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"Note: saying that many planes offer a joystick control and it works fine is not relevant to cars, since planes require extensive specialized training to fly, whereas cars by comparison require minimal instruction to receive a license and their use is a nearly essential part of modern life but only a tiny percentage of the population has a pilot's license, which is a luxury not a necessity."
I'd prefer to call a pilot's license a privilege you keep on earning, more than a luxury.
Robin
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DrivingTheFuture said: ?

I strongly believe that there will NOT be a joystick... just FYI. The thread is starting to be all about joysticks.
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You don't have to believe, you can be totally sure it will not come with a joystick because there was clearly a steering column in the wire diagram during the first reveal.
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N5329K said: ?

"Note: saying that many planes offer a joystick control and it works fine is not relevant to cars, since planes require extensive specialized training to fly, whereas cars by comparison require minimal instruction to receive a license and their use is a nearly essential part of modern life but only a tiny percentage of the population has a pilot's license, which is a luxury not a necessity."
I'd prefer to call a pilot's license a privilege you keep on earning, more than a luxury.
Robin
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Many would argue that a drivers license should require regular competency testing as well. Logistics nightmare but how many lives might it save?

Dan
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Dan Detweiler said: ?

Many would argue that a drivers license should require regular competency testing as well. Logistics nightmare but how many lives might it save?

Dan
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You don't need a license to drive a car. That is, those who break the law will do so regardless whether or not they have a license.

That being said, I do think it is a good thing that we have 3-step driving school here. So please don't misunderstand my message as something that would advocate against driving schools, far from it.
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Joystick in the center console isn't gonna happen. There is no way a critical control can be placed in a location that's easily accessible by passengers (both passenger seat and rear passengers).
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Would prefer WASD keyboard controls, left mouse button to activate a tesla coil and mouse scroll wheel to increase/decrease tesla coil range.
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^^ cheat codes and extra lives would be nice too.
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Pando said: ?

^^ cheat codes and extra lives would be nice too.
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Strafing would be nice... might need spherical wheels for that.
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ecarfan said: ?

There is one significant problem with a vehicle joystick control that the right-handed majority tend to be unawaRE OF: in left hand drive cars with a joystick center mounted, that's fine for right-handlers but many left-handers will face a steep learning curve for a safety critical skill.
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Not really. All left-seat pilots in yoke or side-stick aircraft fly left-handed (and right-seat folks fly right handed) due to having only a single set of throttle/propeller controls in the center. Switching is not difficult.

On top of that, anybody who drives manual transmissions already regularly steers with their "outside" hand due to needing to shift with their "inside" hand. Which for LHD cars, is steering with their left hand. Unless you have muscular motor control issues, switching between dominant/non-dominant is not going to be that difficult.
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I'd love to get a joystick designed car.

The centre tunnel, which the Model S and Model X didn't have in the beginning), seems rather large just to be there.
Seems pretty wide just to let your arms rest on it and not use it more to put the car controles on by joystick.

And you remove the risk of lower limbs injury by removing the need for pedals.

Forward push for accalerating, pull to brake or reverse.

Easy pease, a 5 year old could start driving (O no, more danger on the roads )
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So I suspect the Model 3 will have a small LCD built into the steering wheel with all the relevant dashboard information.
Behold, the future!

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Maybe we should be looking to the past..Id like a pair of Reins...Giddy Up
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A huge plus of a center mounted steering stick would be one car for left and right hand drive. In fact, the passenger could take over when you get tired. A true copilot like in a spaceship
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Steven Loyens said: ?

I'd love to get a joystick designed car.

The centre tunnel, which the Model S and Model X didn't have in the beginning), seems rather large just to be there.
Seems pretty wide just to let your arms rest on it and not use it more to put the car controles on by joystick.

And you remove the risk of lower limbs injury by removing the need for pedals.

Forward push for accalerating, pull to brake or reverse.

Easy pease, a 5 year old could start driving (O no, more danger on the roads )
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Here's a picture of a fellow Tesla driver flying my Cirrus airplane, which has essentially a joystick controller. It took me a good 30 seconds to get used to it after flying with standard stick or wheel controls all my life. It's less stressful, you can use fine muscle control in your fingers rather than crude arm muscles, It's out of the way making it easy to put maps in your lap and see the primary flight display without interference. Pilot flies with his left hand, copilot with his right -- it's not difficult to move from pilot seat to copilot seat and immediately feel comfortable flying with the other hand. There's an armrest built into the door allowing you to rest your hand right where it needs to be without muscle strain.

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I'm still not convinced about the superiority of airplane controls on a car. It all shouts "weirdmobile" to me.
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evp said: ?

Here's a picture of a fellow Tesla driver flying my Cirrus airplane, which has essentially a joystick controller. It took me a good 30 seconds to get used to it after flying with standard stick or wheel controls all my life. It's less stressful, you can use fine muscle control in your fingers rather than crude arm muscles, It's out of the way making it easy to put maps in your lap and see the primary flight display without interference. Pilot flies with his left hand, copilot with his right -- it's not difficult to move from pilot seat to copilot seat and immediately feel comfortable flying with the other hand. There's an armrest built into the door allowing you to rest your hand right where it needs to be without muscle strain.

View attachment 182420
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I wish I could believe that billions of people each day are straining muscles to drive.

Maybe they are straining their muscles by texting while driving - I can believe that.
Maybe they are straining their muscles by doing their hair in the rear-view mirror - I can believe that.
Maybe they are straining their muscles by eating out of a plate with two hands while driving - I can believe that
Maybe they are straining their snoring muscles while driving...I can now believe that.

But there's no way I believe people are straining their muscles with power steering. In my opinion - and I might be alone on this - If steering a car puts too much strain on your muscles - then you don't need a license.

That is ludicrous. ( l love using that word - I can't wait )
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Garlan Garner said: ?

I wish I could believe that billions of people each day are straining muscles to drive.

etc etc....
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In the plane, after ten hours in the air flying across the continent, it really does take a lot of strain off the muscles. You don't get out at the end of the day with your shoulders all tied up in knots. Of course the autopilot alleviates quite a bit of this, even though I keep my hand touching the controls just to keep track of what the autopilot is doing.

I launched for the east coast two days after I got my MS. By the end of the third day on the road, I was definitely feeling some soreness in my left arm. I suspect that autopilot would help here too. Anyone have any experience with long road trips on autopilot?
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evp said: ?

I launched for the east coast two days after I got my MS. By the end of the third day on the road, I was definitely feeling some soreness in my left arm. I suspect that autopilot would help here too. Anyone have any experience with long road trips on autopilot?
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Absolutley. AP cuts muscle tiredness in the shoulders and upper arms, caused by reaching out to the steering wheel. Of course, this is probably personal, because I normally drive with my hands on the upper half of the wheel (isn't that how we are supposed to drive?). With AP, I lay my hands on my legs with my fingers on the lower part of the wheel so if anything goes wacko (and you learn where that might begin), you are already holding the wheel. My consciousness already notices the paved over lines, the worn off lines, the slight hills that prevent the car from "seeing" the lines very far, or the vehicle with its tires over the line into my lane, etc. But since I don't have to do that constantly, as when I myself am doing the driving, its very relaxing.

If you haven't driven AP, you might not understand all this, but if you have, you get it. AP is not true autopilot, and things do go wacko. The car will, for no apparent reason, start to drive off the road, or start wandering, looking for its lane. Bright sun in your eyes with dark shade make it wonder where things are. If you are looking for perfect AP, no one has it yet, so don't buy a car, I guess, but it does have a lot of benefits.
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roblab said: ?

Absolutley. AP cuts muscle tiredness in the shoulders and upper arms, caused by reaching out to the steering wheel. Of course, this is probably personal, because I normally drive with my hands on the upper half of the wheel (isn't that how we are supposed to drive?). With AP, I lay my hands on my legs with my fingers on the lower part of the wheel so if anything goes wacko (and you learn where that might begin), you are already holding the wheel. My consciousness already notices the paved over lines, the worn off lines, the slight hills that prevent the car from "seeing" the lines very far, or the vehicle with its tires over the line into my lane, etc. But since I don't have to do that constantly, as when I myself am doing the driving, its very relaxing.

If you haven't driven AP, you might not understand all this, but if you have, you get it. AP is not true autopilot, and things do go wacko. The car will, for no apparent reason, start to drive off the road, or start wandering, looking for its lane. Bright sun in your eyes with dark shade make it wonder where things are. If you are looking for perfect AP, no one has it yet, so don't buy a car, I guess, but it does have a lot of benefits.
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Muscle tiredness? I suppose that later in life...I might experience that. For right now AP is simply cool. I've never said....I don't want to drive here and/or there because driving makes my muscles tired.
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teslamotorclub

Thứ Sáu, 3 tháng 2, 2017

Spaceship like controls... hint from Model 3 Design sketches? part 1

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