Apr 25, 2015
mragone Buy now or wait for 2016 model?
We are moving back to the U.S. in July. We had an opportunity to drive 2 Model S' in Switzerland and really like the car. We placed an order for a 70D earlier this month for US delivery in August, but then canceled as we thought we might be staying in Europe for a while longer. Now we are headed back to the U.S. for sure. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger again, but recently read that a MS refresh is rumored to come out in Q4 or Q1 2016 with rumors of an upgraded battery. This will be our 2nd car. Would you still pull the trigger or wait a few months for the 2016 MS?�
Apr 25, 2015
wcfinvader This might be expecting too much but since 60 owners were able to upgrade to 85 I don't see why 85 wouldn't be able to upgrade to the largest battrry when it's released. Having said that the supercharger network is expanding very fast. I'm not sure the bigger battery would do much good really ( at least for us anyhow ).�
Apr 25, 2015
doctorwho If it meets your needs, buy it. Even when there's something 'better' than your car, if it still meets your needs, it still meets your needs�
Apr 25, 2015
mragone Thanks wcfinvader and Michael for the feedback. I don't think I would purchase the 85 and would stay with the 70D. My experience with a refresh is that the car company incorporates key redesigns for past warranty issues and also modernizes the fascias and lights.�
Apr 25, 2015
jerry33 Just bear in mind that there really isn't any "2016" model. Upgrades, sometimes significant, can show up at any time. So purchase it if you need it. The main differences between the 85D and the 70D are that the battery will have adequate range for more years, and charging at an SC is probably a bit faster in an 85D because there are more cells to distribute the load.�
Apr 25, 2015
thegruf I've been fretting for ages when to buy but decided to jump onboard with the 85D.
It will always be better tomorrow, and the day after, and the one after that.
You only live once, why not enjoy it for the extra 9 months.�
Apr 25, 2015
Torpedo Ted I don't think it's much to gain by waiting for the next "big" revision this time, since we already got 4wd and autopilot hardware. I doubt there will be any very big changes other than battery. And I think most people agree that a minor battery upgrade isn't really that important.
I would buy a used one though, to save a little money.�
Apr 25, 2015
Todd Burch The "get it if you want it and it meets your needs" mantra is the correct one, primarily because Tesla is in a continuous update mode. Just like you don't want to keep waiting for the newest computer to come out, you don't want to want for the newest Tesla revision. Improvements come out all the time--and no matter how long you wait, within a few months something else will come out that you will miss out on.
With this car, you kinda have to carpe the diem.
�
Apr 25, 2015
napabill I was the 83rd person to order the S85 back in 2009, delivered in late 2012. Have 40,000 miles on it. Been a bunch of hardware updates since then. But I still love my "Classic" S85. Can't imagine not having it. Best car ever. Don't wait. Go for it.�
Apr 25, 2015
mragone Thanks everyone for your outstanding advice. I'm sold to make the purchase... Just have to decide between the 70D and the 85D�
Apr 25, 2015
napabill That's simple..."If a little's good, more's better!":wink:�
Apr 25, 2015
thegruf Hey, it's always easy to spend someone else's money
Dont underestimate the difference in performance between the 70D and 85D.
5.4 ->4.4 0-60 doesnt seem much, but I suspect the difference is more noticeable >30mph ie passing power (as these cars are all exceptional 0-30mph).
Only you can place a value on that of course, but I have seen a few here apparently making a decision primarily on the range difference.
Test drive both at your TD if you can.�
Apr 25, 2015
Khatsalano It doesn't matter when you buy a Tesla. It will be obsolete in a year anyway.
I think in the US, it really depends on where you live and your intended use if you're deciding between the 70D or the 85D. I have an S85D and in California where SCs are plentiful, but I also drive to obscure places for work. So having the 270-mile full charge has enabled me to do the trip a couple times, reaching my destination at < 25 miles of RM remaining. The S70D is only a good deal if you're willing to strip out all of the cool options. Otherwise, if you're willing to spend money on things I consider standard, like leather seats in a luxury car, then the delta isn't that big. Good luck!
- K�
Apr 25, 2015
MsElectric Even when your cutting edge Tesla this year becomes obsolete next year, it will still be a generation or two ahead of any other car available to buy for a few more years
My biggest concern buying now is missing out on a larger capacity battery as I really need about 350 miles of range or as close to that as possible based on where we like to visit on the weekends. I wish they'd announce some program for some set well known pre-established price you have the option, let's say in 4 years, "upgrading" to a larger capacity battery available by then for a reasonable cost. You can then keep your car pretty much as is and then just upgrade the battery in it, sort of like what they announced for the Roadster. Did they ever announce what the fee would be for that 400 mile Roadster battery upgrade?�
Apr 25, 2015
robby I personally would not hold out if your main rationale is a bigger battery. As recently as December, Elon said it "is not coming soon for Model S." What the timeline is exactly is anyone's guess, but given the scale of Tesla's product roadmap I'd wager it's on the order of years, not months.
(The tweet was later deleted along with many others, but you can see discussion of it at the link below).
Elon Musk on Twitter: : teslamotors�
Apr 25, 2015
Electricfan BEST idea I've heard in a long time! Hope somebody at Tesla is reading this!! :biggrin:�
Apr 25, 2015
thegruf It's a valid point but 1) Tesla have an 8 year warranty on battery anyway, and 2)they simply dont know what will be available in 4 years time, so only predictions for now.
What they have shown is that in the case of the Roadster they will offer battery upgrades to existing models.
So, no guarantees but a precedent has been set.
Affordability is another matter altogether.�
Apr 26, 2015
Earlian Four years from now, the gigafactory is up and running, the costs/watt should be significantly down and a lot of people hope for an exchange program.
Tesla itself could sell the rebuyed batteries in their (0-down) home storages and make double profit, so why not doing this?�
Apr 26, 2015
mragone The advice has been remarkable - thanks everyone! I just priced a 70D and 85D... With all the options I want, the 85D with tax climbs over the 6 figure mark. The last car I bought was 50k, so paying 6 figures is quite a leap for someone who hasn't paid this much before. It's not that I can't afford it, it's more psychological.
- - - Updated - - -
The advice has been remarkable - thanks everyone! I just priced a 70D and 85D... With all the options I want, the 85D with tax climbs over the 6 figure mark. The last car I bought was 50k, so paying 6 figures is quite a leap for someone who hasn't paid this much before. It's not that I can't afford it, it's more psychological.�
Apr 26, 2015
ecarfan No pricing has been announced for the Roadster battery upgrade.
Because EV technology is evolving so rapidly I don't see how it would be feasible for Tesla to have a policy like you describe.
To the OP: yes there will always be rumors of exciting new changes to Tesla vehicles, but they are just that: rumors. A small percentage turn out to be true. Don't wait, if you feel the car can currently meet your needs, then place your order.�
Apr 27, 2015
chriSharek mragone, I'm completely with you. I test drove the 70D first (last week). I was not that impressed with its acceleration - honestly. However, I haven't driven the 85D. If I do, I'm probably going to insist on getting it - but do I really need that extra speed? But do I need that speed & extra range? But do I really need that extra speed, extra range, and faster SC charging? ????
At this point, I'm leaning towards a loaded 70D rather than a lesser optioned 85D.�
Apr 27, 2015
mragone Thanks for your feedback chriSharek. I'm sold on making the purchase now and agree with much of the feedback provided in this thread. I am eager to learn more about your comment related your impression on acceleration. I think 0-60mi/100km in 5.2 seconds is pretty fast. I drove the 85D and P85D and was really impressed with both, but did not have the opportunity to drive the 70D. Can anyone comment who has driven both the 70D and 85D?�
Apr 28, 2015
Kandiru Volvo launches the self-driving 100 car fleet in 2017, I can bet you the Teslas will
be self-driving by then.�
Apr 28, 2015
Ride Long I have driven them both, and ended up switching my order from an 85D to the 70D once I did that. My performance needs/interests are not as intense as many who are attracted to the MS. I am merely looking for the world's coolest/best/most comfortable daily driver. The 70D covers that nicely, and with the supercharger and other upgrades there is no penalty (the way I would use the car) versus the 85D. The diff in price made it more psychologically palatable along the way.
As many others have said, you cannot make a mistake ordering the Model S. Just get comfy with your choice then don't look back. Best of luck to you.�
Apr 28, 2015
pmoa My decision point was both financial and want. I wanted the car and don't need the car. I was originally set on a 5 series BMW, but wanted a cooler car. The model S is unique and still rare to see in parts of the country. I like being a one off and that was enough to justify the cost of the 70D.
The price was okay but still extravagant and is solely based on want. Let's be frank, we are as owners ALL fortunate to have the means to purchase such a vehicle and all owners can be proud of their Model S.�
May 1, 2015
bagleyc Does anyone think the Model S will be getting a body design refresh with the launch of the Model X? I am starting to see more aftermarket styling kits becoming available. There are a lot of Model S out there and I would like to have different levels of body styles similar to the M-Series, AMG, F-type, etc. I am holding off on getting the P85D until the launch of the Model X hoping they will have a more aggressive body style. Wondering if that is what Elon is referring to when he said the P85D 2.8-2.9 0-60.? Thoughts?�
May 1, 2015
Stoneymonster It's been shipping for barely three years. Personally (based on nothing) I wouldn't expect a style change for another year at least. For one thing, I don't think they can afford the line disruption.
Also Elon and the 2.8 thing is seriously being blown out of proportion. I think he was just spitballing on Twitter. In any case it certainly doesn't seem relevant to a body change.�
May 1, 2015
MsElectric Yes, there is a new Model S body style coming and it's the Model X
Seriously I think they have their hands full with getting the Model X out to have resources to announce a new body refresh for the Model S. If anything I think we might (and we should) see a larger capacity battery this or next year.�
May 1, 2015
sorka The MS doesn't need a refresh. It's perfect the way it is.
I could see them adding things like turn signal indicators to the side mirrors or even a 360 camera view which I would kill to get back. Have it in my Infiniti and not having it in the MS is a major bummer.�
May 1, 2015
sitter_k ugh tell me about it!
I agree that Tesla has their hands full with the X, but i think a refresh should be done in the near future with a redesign in 3 or so years. Cars need to evolve, even nice ones or else the 1950 corvette (or insert whatever old car you like) would still be the current body style. Current owners on the boar tend to be all "It's fine the way it is dont change it, bc then i'll have the old Tesla!" Future owners want a newer model not the 3 year old design, and no one wants to be the last one to get the old body style.
And Tesla doesn't want people to stop ordering their cars while waiting for the new body/feature to come out. The more heads up they give the more deadtime leading up to production of the new model s.�
May 2, 2015
luvnMyTS I don't think we'll see any design changes to the Model S before 2018 or 2019. As many have said, they are putting all of their resources into FINALLY getting the Model X completed. Then, there's the little thing called the Model 3 that's supposed to be the mass production car for Tesla, so all of their resources will go into getting that done. They said 2017 delivery for Model 3, based on Model X history and the fact that they haven't even built a Model 3 prototype yet, I'd say it won't be out until 2018 or 2019. Then I think they could start working on the next Model S. Seven or Eight years between models is on the lengthy end of a body style, but not out of the ordinary for high end cars. Corvettes typically go 7-9 years. Porsche looks the same as it did in the 1950's. Have they changed the look of the Panamera yet? Tesla is a great company, but with as small as they are, everything takes 2-3 times as long as it would for a large manufacturer, at least when it comes to major changes.�
May 2, 2015
Half Dollar Bill Let's not forget that there's still less than 100,000 MS's on US roads today and even with sales growth there will still be far less then half a million a few years from now. Calendar years aside, the volumes just wouldn't warrant a body refresh. And besides, if they keep switching up the paint colors it'll almost be like a new body style.
With the focus on the new models and with continual software releases, I think potential owners are going to be more than happy with Tesla offerings for years to come.�
May 2, 2015
jp158 Why??
Several points first, Half Dollar Bill stated changing colors keeps the Model S fresh, and it does, with lest then a 100,000 units out there... Then Mr. Musk with options like "D"... "Auto Pilot" it keeps Model S the car of the future without having to alter a beautiful designed auto..
Jp�
May 2, 2015
tga In much of the US, the car is pretty rare. Hardly seems like there's a need to re-fresh a car many haven't seen in person yet.
Nevermind that the design team is likely working full-out on the Model 3. There's no free time to putter with a refresh of the S.�
May 2, 2015
Cyclone I would imagine that we might see interior tweaks (and I stress tweaks) with the X introduction, but even that might not be likely. What is more likely is that a refresh (whether interior only or interior + exterior) would happen with the the 3 release and would be common components shared across the S3X platform.�
May 2, 2015
RAW84 I hope they do at least 8 years (or longer) like Benz. One of the reasons I convinced myself to get the S was cuz I believed, being such a small company, and given the pattern of delays, and their preoccupation with the C and the 3 it would be unlikely they'd change the body too soon. I was a little worried reading the thread title that there had been some indication this was coming (no I won't sue if they do change it lol)
I do agree they should have a pronounced performance variant. Same basic design, but have something to make the P85D standout. I know this has been discussed on here before.�
May 2, 2015
TES-E IMHO they need to get out the Model X and the Model 3 before worrying too much about a body refresh.�
May 2, 2015
bagleyc I figured since they already have to re-gear the die presses for the Model X they would include the Model S styling as well. Like everyone else, still waiting to see the production look of the X. I agree it is a bit to early for the battery upgrades. I am fine with the 85 for now but would like to trade up this year to get another tax rebate. I am hoping for a little more aggressive look for the P85D. Interior upgrades are developing slowly as well. I would like to see back seat controls and a new center console option. My center console floor mat is so gross from all of the spills. The cup holder on the arm rest is bad placement for me. I need one on the floor.�
May 2, 2015
thegruf A mid model refresh is usually planned in to inject new life into a model that will typcially be seeing sales figures slipping after first couple of years.
Not happening with the S, so no refresh (and the design team busy on X and 3).
We will still see ongoing updates though, even significant ones such as NVidia Drive PX (before or after Model X release is unknown), but these will just be rolling changes like everything to date, not a major restyling.�
May 2, 2015
donv I don't think they'll do anything significant to the styling until the Model 3 is released. They might tweak around the edges, change the nose cone, get rid of the side mirrors, that sort of thing. And I would fully expect that they will make internal improvements, such as changing the sensor package for the autopilot.�
May 2, 2015
TexasEV It would be a complete waste of resources to change the Model S styling while trying to get the Model X out and then the Model 3. Are there a significant number of potential Model S buyers who are putting off a purchase because they want an updated style? No. There are lots of reasons people come up with to not buy this car, whether thinking EVs aren't ready for prime time yet, it's too expensive, or the company is still too young. Wanting an updated style must be at the bottom of the list if it's there at all, perhaps with the exception of some P85D owners who want something that says "look at me, my version of a Tesla cost over $100,000."
Auto manufacturers change body styles to stimulate sales. Tesla doesn't need to do that yet, not would it work for them now.�
May 2, 2015
MsElectric +1. A 360 degree view would be so useful. If they do that I hope they move the blind spot warning to side view mirrors as well. The current location is just plain dumb as you should not have to focus on a tiny arc on the IC when you are about to change lanes and your attention needs to be around you.
What the Model S needs more than anything in terms of an upgrade is a battery upgrade that will deliver 300-350 miles of range. At least that's the only meaningful upgrade we'd like to see.�
May 2, 2015
sitter_k 7 or 8 years is far too long. My bet is that a new body gets out on the same frame after the x and before the 3. Doesn't take as much to change the body whereas other manufactures do a complete reengineering something tesla can do incrementally for all other aspect s besides the body�
May 2, 2015
mrElbe Also the current body style is engineered for least wind resistance and that would have to be still a major factor in any body tweak or redesign.�
May 2, 2015
3s-a-charm A body style change on the Model S is coming "soon". If you've been around Tesla long enough you'll know what I mean by this
I like that they haven't been teasing an LCI (refreshed body style) on the Model S and I concur that their strategy will likely focus on the following for the MS;
- new hardware features as they have been doing already
- revised headlights in the same housing?
- new colors
- new wheel choices
- new bumpers and nose cone (easy to fit into the current assembly line)
The body of the car is close to perfection for me...�
May 2, 2015
Larry Chanin Hi Chris,
I agree with the majority of the posters here that think it is too soon to devote resources to a distraction such as a body design refresh. Tesla has to be laser focused on getting the Model X out and they have to pick up the pace on the Model 3 development. To get what you want I think you are going to have to resort to after market vendors. As others have suggested a more aggressive body design will probably sacrifice aerodynamics a little.
I agree with you that this recent speculation about a larger battery in the near future is unlikely, but I think it is more likely to precede a body design refresh.
I recommend that you look into purchasing either the Tesla Premium Front Console or the EVannex after market Center Consol Insert to solve your cup holder problem. Like you I have always thought that the location of the cup holders on the armrest was a design failure. (On the positive side my wife uses it for storage of small items. :biggrin
Larry�
May 2, 2015
Fiver While I don't think that the exterior needs any serious work, the fit and finish of extra's could go a long way. They already have been adding a ton of nick-nacks, but as mentioned in many other threads, there's always a few things they could add to entice new buyers.. (Larger batteries, larger motors, frunk auto-latch, 360 camera, faster main CPU and so on etc.)�
May 2, 2015
William13 No refresh for many years according to Elon a few years ago. He indicated that Tesla would be similar to BMW and Mercedes with 7 or 8 year cycles.
The body is still beautiful and gets compliments every day that it is clean and sunny outside. The Aluminum dyes are very expensive and took over six months from the specifications until they were installed. They are only made in Japan and must come by ship due to weight. It took months after the installation until they improved the process enough to ramp up production. The cars from the first six months of production had to be hand adjusted to get gaps acceptable. They will be better with the Model X but why would they hurt themselves by changing panels at the same or similar time for the Model S?
Steel is much easier to work with than the aluminum. There are changes nearly every week to the Model S, just no changes to the aluminum panels.�
May 2, 2015
caddieo I am perfectly happy with the external configuration, shape, etc. of the MS. The "beautiful car" comments have not diminished in frequency since I got it. And as after-market offers proliferate, there will be enough options to accommodate personal tastes. Right now, we are already getting a lot of postings on carbon-this, de-chrome that, new paint, color change by wrap, light this, dim that, wheels and deals, and on and on. The most significant misgivings have been with internal amenities and funtional mods and these should be easier to fix than creating new frame changes and body panels, given the pressures of bringing the X and Gen 3 to market. Given the internal/integral changes that have already occurred since July 2013, my car is already a classic and needs just 23 more years to qualify as an antique:tongue:. If they do a significant frame/body change in the future, I would hope that they give it a new name rather than calling it an S refresh (that should clinch a future antique/classic status):smile:.�
May 2, 2015
Phil K There will be changes in hardware and software but I don't think there will be major changes in the exterior.�
May 2, 2015
MsElectric Excellent suggestions. All of them. And I feel what you suggested will have a greater impact on sales than different body styling.
And when they do implement new body styling for the Model S, I really hope they keep the understated and elegant look of the car though I certainly would not mind some interior luxury refinements�
May 2, 2015
joefee Elon: Build the Roadster/Model S/X to fund the mass market car. I think that their will be no body change until Model 3 is launched.�
May 3, 2015
chriSharek Always great to hear from you, Larry! I'm not worried at all. I have the approval (from the wife) to order MS on my birthday on May 23rd! I won't take delivery until November, but I can keep an eye out for inventory cars and such between ordering and delivery. I've had to travel up to Tarpon Springs this weekend for a soccer tournament with my son (leaving in an hour for the semi and hopefully finals in an hour) but had to burn some serious dead dinosaurs to get there and back with the Volt. Not a charger to be found within 30 miles of our location up there either.
I can't wait for my MS!�
May 3, 2015
Johann Koeber The model S is in constant refresh mode. Changes under the hood an in the software abundant.
The outside - not so much. I'm fine with that and don't need a change if it isn't an improvement. Currently the S does not look old (and won't for some time). So why should they change it?�
May 3, 2015
Stoneymonster I think they should wait to do a body refresh until they have trim alignment figured out :tongue:�
May 3, 2015
AmpedRealtor I don't think we'll see any physical redesigns of the Model S until after the Model 3 ships.�
May 3, 2015
ecarfan Agreed and I believe that Elon has stated that.�
May 3, 2015
MarkR Silly people . . . I think we're all agreed. No changes to the Model S.�
May 3, 2015
Vger When figuring out what Tesla will do strategically, asking "what do other car companies do?" is almost always completely irrelevant and misleading. They chart their own course to becoming "compelling."
The filter I always use in trying to predict what Tesla WILL do is to ask: What will advance the EV revolution as fast as possible. That this their only strategy; everything serves that end.�
May 3, 2015
mspohr The Porsche 911 has been essentially the same since 1963... and it still looks great!�
May 3, 2015
sgblank When the Model X ships in Q4 the Model S will get a new nose, along with additional internal hardware and sensors to make the platform compatible with the autonomous driving features that ship with the Model X.�
May 4, 2015
sitter_k Says the people who already have model S' lol�
May 4, 2015
skilly I think to stay relevant its going to have to slightly augment its design before the 3. There is a LOT of competition out there and its certain that TM wont be the first 200 mile electric available to the public in the price range that the 3 is coming out to address. Tesla is going to get squeezed everywhere, and the brand, other than perhaps the people on this site is still largely misunderstood. As such, I suspect that they will have to do some sort of refresh.
I don't think its going to have to be much - perhaps LED front lights and different wheel packages or even an "M"/"AMG" version. It will require minimal effort as compared to a redesign and will be important in order for it to stay cutting edge. Lets not forget those designs that were perfect in form but sat on their engineering as proof enough and were quickly discarded by a disinterested public via new market entires - Blackberry; Betamax; Sony Walkman...there are MANY others.�
May 4, 2015
Stoneymonster I think that's very debatable. In the price range, maybe. Comparable on style and features? I doubt it. One reason: Tesla will own the battery market, no one else will have the capability to make more than a few cars until other ramp up battery production.�
May 4, 2015
skilly Style is personal so what you find beautiful, I might put in the round file and visa versa. As for features...If the MS is an example of feature rich as compared to its ICE competitors, this isnt really holding water. In many respects, cars like the MB S class and Porsche Panamara are far richer in features. "owning" a market in terms of early adoption is true but its not because they own battery production around the globe; its because they currently make a better product. This goes full circle back to my point which is keep the innovation curve steep and rapid on all of the models or you begin to lose control due to outside pressures.
Incidentally, the Model 3 has barely any artist renderings and the few that do come up in search dont look much different than the Chevy Bolt that is due for release over a year sooner than 3.
Breaking: 2017 Chevrolet Bolt 200-Mile Electric Car To Start Production In Oct 2016
- - - Updated - - -
Even Porsche does refreshes of the platform regularly (as in every 3 years) and the slowly changing dimensions, while subtle, have resulted in an entirely bigger, badder, better car in the 991...which is due for a refresh next year!�
May 4, 2015
luvnMyTS I think they like that the P85D is a complete sleeper. Other than the badge, no way for anyone to know. There are however plenty of after market versions of the car already available to make the car stand out from the crowd. They range from outrageously aggressive changes to mild and subtle......
�
May 4, 2015
rcsting Source of this information ?�
May 4, 2015
vdiv Look at the new Volt. A redesign is not necessarily a good thing. Tesla is continuously changing the car (wheels, colors, seats, accessories, steering stalks, software, battery and motors) so a major leap relatively soon does not seem likely. Eventually a full redesign will likely happen but the current Model S has a spot in automotive history that is undeniable.�
May 5, 2015
skilly words said by RIM (Blackberry) and Sony (walkman and Beta)....�
May 5, 2015
Stoneymonster Ok, who is Apple in your scenario? MB, BMW? I think you've got it backwards.�
May 5, 2015
gregincal Changes like that may very well come, but they won't come as a new model "refresh". They will probably be introduced piecemeal just like autopilot and all the other numerous changes they've made to the Model S already. They are continually refreshing the Model S.�
May 5, 2015
scottm careful for what you ask for.... the new 2016 Volt... dull styling compared to the more handsome and easily identifiable previous generation Volt
Nice array of after market touches on pictures of Model S in this thread!
From top to bottom, my thoughts:
Saleen - very close to what Tesla should have released day 1. Still needs nose work tho. Ditch the nostrils on the hood.
Unplugged Light Blue - Lexus-Ferrari confused front end
Revo - very classy AMG like treatments of a white car. Body color the door pulls in white too. What would a white fine pinstripe on tires look like?
Unplugged Grey - rice ground fx
Black - more fx, but better in black because not as noticeable. I'm OK with this one.
Overall, fx alone are not new body style. And a new nosecone is similar. Anybody can do that.
If you don't dent a metal panel, it doesn't count as a re-worked style.�
May 5, 2015
skilly Apple is a great example of getting it right...then wrong...then right again...they were all but dead before they branched out and reinvented themselves. MSFT exists largely because of Apple's original ideas that they made better for the PC market...now MSFT is lagging behind and playing catch up. My only point is being in innovator is a constant and iterative process. And those that say we got it right and then sit on it are quickly looking at the rear end of those that were previously sitting behind them in the market.�
May 5, 2015
ilg Well, if your only definition of success is "just like Apple," I'm not sure Tesla will ever qualify. Apple products are 40-50% design/performance and about 50-60% marketing hype.
I much prefer Tesla's 99% design/performance 1% hype (primarily from Elon's Twitter account).�
May 5, 2015
skilly You missed the point - I'm not comparing them to any company at all...its the basics of a free market that Im pointing out. That said, if you have an Apple device, my guess is that you aren't using a 6 year old iPod...you either aren't a supporter, or you are using something current.�
May 5, 2015
artsci Any redesign of the nose won't happen. Sensors maybe.�
May 5, 2015
Larry Chanin As was pointed out Tesla has been augmenting continually ever since the Model S was first released. They've even come out with new wheel designs.
However, it's fair to say that such minor things as LEDs, wheel packages and other cosmetic changes won't be the things that keep the Model S cutting edge as you put it. It will be the continuing introduction of new inovative technologies such as dual motors, AutoPilot, etc.
I'm afraid I don't follow how your remark "There is a LOT of competition out there and its certain that TM wont be the first 200 mile electric available to the public in the price range that the 3 is coming out to address", relates to the topic of this thread, Model S Body Refresh Coming in Sept/Oct?
Whether or not Tesla makes cosmetic changes to the Model S before the release of the Model 3, as you recommend, has no bearing on the competition it will face in developing the Model 3.
Larry�
May 5, 2015
skilly Well, first dissecting the individual comments seems to have lost the spirit of my thoughts...which was TM needs to continue to innovate (this includes aesthetics). The car is beautiful no doubt; its one of the key reasons that I bought it form AND functional beauty. That said, if it sits for another 3 years before it gets a face lift or a refresh it will lose its position as an innovator. I've heard several times "they all look the same" meant to be a negative statement...Those in the know understand that there are a lot of changes under the hood that are ongoing but the general public isn't aware...and with no visual queues, that doesn't effectively sell cars.
While TM does march to the beat of their own drum, they are selling to a market that has been trained for decades by other auto manufactures to be drawn to styling queues that refresh the platform with things as simple as those things that I mentioned earlier (light changes; wheels; sport package etc).
My point in referencing the 3 is twofold. First, the notion that some of the posts are referencing it as the reason for TM to leave the MS alone because they are working hard on 3...that doesn't make sense to me - the MS rolling advertising for TM's superior products (and in many cases how a consumer is introduced to TM). Secondly, and more importantly, its an example of how fast the market is moving to erode TM's market share in the E category - there wasn't much of anything in the 200 mile range category, now here comes a car that seems to have parity with the 3 and is going to beat TM to market. So, how sensitive TM is to how the public is used to buying cars will matter. So, its my view that how the public sees the MS will have a significant bearing on how well the 3 is received.�
May 5, 2015
Larry Chanin Thanks for the clarification.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. A cosmetic face lift in the form of light changes, wheels and a sport package are not going to keep the competition at bay. Tesla needs to do what it has already been doing in terms of constant technological innovation.
What is important is to be the first to produce a compelling yet affordable mass market car that has a range of 200+ miles. To do that Tesla can't afford to be distracted by face lifts that take their eye off the ball.
I agree that the Model S is setting the Brand image, but as I stated earlier this is not done via minor cosmetic face lifting, but rather by true technological innovation.
Continuing off-topic for a second, it is true others are claiming that they intend to develop an affordable, 200+ mile, mass market market EV, but talk is cheap. As I write this Tesla is actually building the Gigafactory. What are they doing to assure mass market battery supply? Building concept vehicles is not going to get it. GM, Ford, Nissan, VW etc., no doubt have the means to design and build a 200+ mile EV, but I doubt is that they will be the first to do it in mass market numbers. GM may be toying with concept vehicles, but without following Tesla's aggressive lead to address supply issues they probably will only have enough battery capacity to produce a total of around 20,000 cars a year if they didn't already need those batteries to supply to the Volt, ELR and Spark. That is not the mass market. They need enough batteries to supply 100's of thousands of affordable cars per year. Anything else is just a niche market, or worse yet, merely "marketing speak" cars.
So as I said earlier, and from your earlier remarks you probably agree, Tesla needs to get going on picking up the pace on developing the Model 3.
It doesn't need cosmetic exercises directed toward the Model S to distract from that all-important objective.
Larry�
May 6, 2015
scottm Re-design threads are full of ... well, design discussion, and pictures, and aesthetic comments.
...not so much about battery supply, industry theories, electronics, etc. (Other threads for that please)
PHOTOSHOP the ideal Next-S and paste your guess or suggestion here!�
May 6, 2015
EMP40 The efforts should remain focused on quality and fit and finish as well as the reduction in battery costs which can make the products more competitive.�
May 6, 2015
skilly We will most certainly agree to disagree.
If Tesla is as single threaded in their thinking as you are suggesting that they need to be, it wont make it. EVERY SINGLE mass market available vehicle and for that matter luxury, and luxury exotic, refreshes their brand largely through cosmetic changes to keep the brand fresh and interesting to those that haven't purchased yet. Tesla needs to multi-task and address both issues facing them or be lost in the sea of competition they face...
As I have mentioned, the entire auto industry builds around this styling/refresh concept. That, coupled with a largely uninformed public, and TM will be required to take some pages of development from the general market.
We keep defaulting back to the knowledge and understanding that TM constantly innovates enough in the form of downloads and other hidden treasures inside a car. Those very exciting developments are hidden under an exterior that hasnt changed one aspect since its release. As a result, these great platform changes are largely unknown to the casual buyer and become a reward for the existing owner, or those doing extra due diligence...thats
high value benfit being hidden from potential buyers....not exactly a way to get to the mass market and 100K + units you mention as the objective.�
Dec 18, 2015
tanner New Model S or WAIT for Refresh?
I just decided to ditch my X reservation and purchase a newer Model S with dual motors / autopilot... However, I just read through some of the posts on this thread and I can't help but wonder weather Tesla will introduce (more) significant changes to the S within the coming months. Thoughts?�
Dec 18, 2015
dirkhh So there is a thread discussing this rumor, and to get people's opinion on that rumor you start a new thread.
Not exactly sure I understand the logic.
Moderators, can we please merge this in the thread referenced?
Thank you to the kind moderator who responded to my request!�
Dec 18, 2015
tanner Sure, it's late... Don't know what I was thinking.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét