Jun 15, 2015
Chris TX It looks like someone knows what the 3 will turn into:
Tesla Mass-Market Model 3 Lineup To Include Crossover: Report - Forbes
I'd like a wagon, personally.�
Jun 15, 2015
Chris TX I posted this in the Model 3 subforum, but thought this would be good in the News section:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2015/06/15/tesla-mass-market-model-3-lineup-to-include-crossover-report/
I wonder if the crossover variant is a response to the Chevy Bolt.�
Jun 15, 2015
techmaven More likely that there are a lot of small CUV's on the market and it seems to be a segment where there are a lot of buyers.�
Jun 15, 2015
AnOutsider Maybe I missed it, but what's new here? We've known from slides a while back that the Gen III platform would have a smaller crossover (hence all the talk of the Model Y to form S3XY).�
Jun 15, 2015
Chris TX I think it might be news because there would be two variants to the Model 3, and it wouldn't be a separate model.�
Jun 15, 2015
Model 3 IF this is not some kind of misunderstanding about Gen-III vs Model 3 somewhere
And in case it is not, the only news here is that both Mode 3 and Model Y will be named Model 3
�
Jun 15, 2015
Doug_G Mod note: cross-posting is discouraged on this forum.�
Jun 15, 2015
JER This is not very surprising, given that the X is built on the same platform as the S.
What I'm really hoping for (after the Model 3) is a C-segment sized hatchback with a dual motor Tesla powertrain, to compete with the likes of the VW Golf GTx. I reckon that would sell really well in Europe if it was priced right.�
Jun 15, 2015
Chris TX So should this have been in Model 3 or News section?�
Jun 15, 2015
linkster Nuthin'�
Jun 15, 2015
evme
Yes, the cross over is a response to the Chevy Bolt, here is how it went down. When Musk learned of the Bolt, he got into his time machine and went back in time.
Gen III Crossover
�
Jun 16, 2015
StephenM To be fair, it's already hypothesized that Elon is from the future, so if that's true he could just go back again�
Jun 16, 2015
JRP3 Model 3, since it's not really news :wink:�
Jun 16, 2015
timf Gotta love how news agencies latch onto a 3 year old story like it's some new revelation. Oh well, the more publicity for Tesla the better.�
Jun 16, 2015
Zextraterrestrial I expect 3 or more built on the 3 platform�
Jun 16, 2015
electracity There's a 'Hatchback problem" for american companies designing world cars. Americans prefer small cars as sedans, with hatchbacks being reserved for vehicles considered to be an SUV (and crossover). Most of the rest of the world prefers small cars to be hatchback. This preference is handled by established car companies building a lot of model variants. Tesla can't currently build a lot of model variants.
So with the M3, where does Tesla begin? With a model that best fits its largest single market, or the best world car? I think they start with a sedan followed by a crossover (hatchback), which is why these stories exist.
I wouldn't expect the crossover to be overly tall. Just a model that americans can claim as a small SUV, while satisfying the rest of the world's desire for a flexible four door hatchback.�
Jun 16, 2015
Yggdrasill I'm thinking the Model 3 will first come as a hatchback/sedan version like the Model S, and then the crossover. The crossover doesn't try to replace the hatchback/sedan, instead it covers those who need a station wagon/van/crossover. I think this is the best way to attract as many customers as possible.
I'm hoping that the hatchback/sedan and crossover are launched within months of each other, but knowing exactly how JB Straubel worded his statement would have helped. :/�
Jun 16, 2015
Doug_G Hatchbacks used to be widespread in North America, if you go back to the 70's. I don't think the hatchbacks on the market had much style going for them. When the minivan craze started in the mid 80's, I think most practicality-oriented people who used to drive hatchbacks switched to minivans, and everyone else went to sedans and coupes.�
Jun 16, 2015
electracity Look at the top cars sold in america. Not hatchback. By sedan I'm referring to a car with a trunk, not a hatchback.
I'm not arguing what is subjectively best, just the market's clear preference.
- - - Updated - - -
Minivans went to SUV/Crossover, especially for more upscale buyers. Every generation in the U.S. has a station wagon. Every generation rejects their parents version of a station wagon.�
Jun 16, 2015
JER There were a lot of ugly cars around in the '70s, hatchbacks included. Plenty of good ones around now though: VW Golf, SEAT Leon, Ford Focus etc. The Fiesta's decent too.�
Jun 16, 2015
electracity Electric Pacer?
�
Jun 16, 2015
stopcrazypp So perhaps the only "news" part of this is:
1) Both sedan and crossover versions of gen 3 platform might be called Model 3 (instead of speculation crossover be called Model Y or something).
2) Both sedan and crossover released at roughly the same time.
Both of the above really depends on how the statement is worded.
But I agree with others that it has been long known and expected that a sedan and crossover will be built on gen 3 platform.�
Jun 16, 2015
electracity My thinking on platform:
- Large chassis v1 is current Model S
- Large chassis v2 is Model X, and refreshed Model S that will include new features from the X
- Small chassis v1 is all Model 3 variants, including crossover.
Two chassis is plenty to build 5-10 models of cars. This is standard, modern auto manufacturing.�
Jun 16, 2015
glhs272 Great. Then on with the truck chassis�
Jun 16, 2015
okashira Sedan...? I hope by Sedan they mean hatchback....�
Jun 16, 2015
stopcrazypp My guess is they mean a sedan-like hatchback like Model S. The reason they don't say hatchback directly is because it makes people think of "traditional" hatchbacks (like Golf, a3, etc).�
Jun 16, 2015
Kevin Harney Yep I am thinking maybe 5 cars off this chassis.
1. Sedan / Hatchback 4/5 door
2. CUV / Wagon 4/5 door
3. Coupe 2 door
4. Convertible 2 door 2+2 passenger
5. Roadster 2 door 2 passenger�
Jun 16, 2015
igotzzoom "Sport Tourer" :wink:�
Jun 16, 2015
beeeerock Given that Wayne and Garth were all about the electric sound, I'm sure they would approve. Most Excellent! Party On!! Galileo (Galileo) Galileo figaro...�
Jun 16, 2015
MartinAustin In addition to a 4-door sedan, Tesla will no doubt chase the sector described in this report - http://www.cnbc.com/id/102643869�
Jun 16, 2015
Buckeye2320 So does this sound familiar? Mazda has a sedan, hatchback and a SUV all on the same platform and all a "model 3". The Mazda 3. sedan, Mazda 3 hatchback now the Mazda CX3 SUV. Sounds like the Head of Design that came from Mazda is reaching into his old bag of tricks.�
Jun 16, 2015
AnOutsider This isn't anything "new" though. Many car companies build cars that share platforms.�
Jun 16, 2015
Buckeye2320 No but it might give us some insight into what the Model 3 might look like. A better version of the Mazda 3???�
Jun 16, 2015
ecarfan Quite true. Including Tesla right now with the S and the X.�
Jun 16, 2015
AnOutsider I guess if the X came out looking like the Mazda 7 (I think that's their CUV), then perhaps, but I wouldn't get my hopes up there. There's a bunch of threads on speculation of Model 3 looks (along with some quotes from folks at Tesla). I think that's a better place to start than the design of a car from a company the designer worked for ages ago.�
Jun 16, 2015
igotzzoom I think the rendering done by EasyCharge.me elsewhere in this forum may be fairly close to the overall shape of the production crossover.�
Jun 16, 2015
James Anders I do hope they see fit to do a coupe (to compete with the looks of the M4 BMW.�
Jun 18, 2015
Red Sage Finally! Someone who agrees with me! This is precisely as I envision the Generation III product line. Had the car been unveiled this year, I would have expected at least three variants on the podium. Since it won't be until next year, I think Tesla Motors will be more gradual with releases than I'd hoped. So, one or two versions of Model ? will be revealed Q1 2016. Anything else will be displayed later, but within 12-18 months of first deliveries of those new variants.�
Jun 18, 2015
Twiddler True - I have always felt that the Model S shares a lot of the same design language as the Maxima - especially the waist and rear 'hips'�
Jun 18, 2015
TDR32 I don't think Tesla with make a convertible, roadster and coupe. I see one of these on the Gen III platform at some point. If you look at the combined market for those three body styles they are less than sedan on its own.�
Jun 19, 2015
MassModel3 I would definitely be surprised if 1, 2, and 3 did not make the line-up. Putting the next version of the Roadster (will it really be called "Roadster"?) on this platform makes a lot of sense, but I'm thinking that items 4 and 5 will be one or the other, but not both. That's essentially making two versions of the same thing, one with 2 seats, one with 4 seats. Seems like a waste of effort and resources.�
Jun 19, 2015
Red Sage I think the two seater would be called Model R. I hope a subsequent hypercar, to arrive later, would be Model Z. Model ? will be in multiple configurations though, just as is the 3-Series.�
Jun 19, 2015
Kevin Harney I would actually like #4 to be a 4 door and #5 to be a 2 door but I think those chances are slim at best. You are probably right but I hope not. A Roadster is too small for me ... unless they make the Roadster a 2+2 instead of a true roadster.�
Jun 19, 2015
Red Sage If the rear seat passengers of a Cabriolet aren't able to hop over the side, then they don't get to ride! No four door convertibles! Sorted.
;-)�
Jun 19, 2015
Kevin Harney Why are you being so mean to me !! LOL :tongue:�
Jun 19, 2015
MassModel3 Don't take it personally -- he's an equal opportunity offender! Brutally honest -- damned the torpedoes and all that. But I still like the insight Red Sage brings to the forums. :smile:�
Jun 19, 2015
Red Sage It's just that so many four door convertibles have been executed poorly in the past fifty years or so. I know it can be done right aesthetically... It's just that the barriers to doing so today are rather formidable. There are solutions, but each adds considerable complexity to the design. Hence, why so many either only do coupes as convertibles (avoiding the issue altogether), or live with the least common denominator kludges that are conceived for four door convertibles.
A literal, cloth 'ragtop' is out of the question. They always look really, truly, very bad when applied to 'chopped' sedans. So it would have to be a hardtop convertible, and that means a whole lot of weight. Not so bad in a gas guzzler, pretty bad for an EV.
Rear 'suicide' doors are a must, because regular swinging doors just get in the way at the rear. But not the stupid half doors at the back. And hopefully something that doesn't require a front door be opened first.
The B-pillar has to go. But side impact crash regulations have forced some to use a sort of 'basket handle' rollover hoop -- which looks stupid. Maybe a half-height pillar, beside the front seats would do the trick. But even that would seem out of place.�
Jun 20, 2015
aronth5 I think the only real news is how most people thought it was actually new and of course it wasn't. And I don't see the cross over being released for at least a year after the hatchback/sedan. Probably longer.�
Jun 22, 2015
Kevin Harney Don't get me wrong. I think you are probably correct but that could be a good gimmick. Only 4 door convertible on the market. And if not I will take the 2 door. That is what I have now.�
Jul 15, 2015
Kevin Harney What are the chances that we will see a sedan and coupe first. Followed by a CUV and convertible off those two soon thereafter? Thoughts ....�
Jul 15, 2015
Yggdrasill I'm thinking very unlikely. No way a coupe would sell better than a crossover, and Tesla is likely to target the largest markets first.�
Jul 15, 2015
Kevin Harney Agreed but my thought was to best utilize the platform. I doubt that they would come out with a sedan and a CUV at the same time and a CUV would likely come off the sedan and a coupe is needed and the convertible would come off that. This gets two lines going at the same time producing 2 and 4 instead of 1, 2,3 and 4. Saving time to a larger market share in the end.�
Jul 15, 2015
Yggdrasill I would expect that the sedan and CUV are launched with less than a year between them.
And sure, it would be nice if Tesla rapidly came out with four Model 3 versions, but I don't think that's very realistic.�
Jul 16, 2015
JRP3 A convertible needs significant structural redesign. I don't expect to see a Model 3 convertible.�
Jul 16, 2015
Kevin Harney
And I see it the opposite way. They will design the Model 3 to accommodate a convertible so no redesign is necessary. Same way BMW does for the 3 series. It is in the big picture from the beginning not an afterthought.�
Jul 16, 2015
JRP3 That would add weight and cost, both of which should be avoided when building what is supposed to be a less expensive more efficient vehicle.�
Jul 16, 2015
Kevin Harney I understand how the convertible could add cost and weight but how could the design of it add that ? The hardtop in my 3 series only adds a couple hundred pounds so no big deal and that is a hardtop.�
Jul 16, 2015
MassModel3 Yes, but the roof adds to the structural integrity of the overall vehicle. Designing the body to be structurally sound without that top portion requires additional reinforcements not otherwise necessary. So you lose the weight of the roof, but you gain the weight in making the body structurally stronger. Give a little, get a little. But I'm inclined to agree that it's at least a partial redesign after the fact. I don't think they'd want the structural beefing up for a hard top car that doesn't need it.�
Jul 17, 2015
JRP3 Exactly.�
Jul 19, 2015
EVNow I don't see any reason why they can't design for the variations without compromises.�
Jul 19, 2015
S'toon The way I see it, is Tesla will KISS until production ramps up. More variation means more engineering. We only have one basic design of Model S, with minor variations. Same will apply to the Model 3. More models means more engineering, more engineering means more parts, more production costs to incur. Tesla is being very careful.�
Jul 19, 2015
JRP3
Every vehicle has compromises.�
Jul 19, 2015
EVNow Yes, but you are implying that if they design more variations there has to be more compromises - which is not true.�
Jul 19, 2015
stopcrazypp I think it's true that there will be more compromises, you just try to minimize the amount. When you build something that is "optimal" for two very different applications (in this case, one with a top and one not), you compromise in certain aspects for both models in order to strike a balance.
If not, it is like what JRP3 says: the convertible version will require a lot of extra design work on top of the existing chassis. In most other convertibles, they don't build a chassis that is designed for both applications, but rather just add extra bracing to the convertible version (which adds weight). They choose to compromise on the convertible version because that is typically not the main seller.
I'm reminded by the whole conversation about the F35 over at Jalopnik and the compromises made in the various versions in order to accommodate the C version.�
Jul 20, 2015
EVNow Sounds like a good compromise to me. Otherwise it might cost more if it is separately designed.�
Jul 20, 2015
JRP3 Sounds as if they shouldn't bother to make a convertible, which would be a very low volume production model and not worth the extra engineering and weight that would handicap the higher production units.�
Jul 20, 2015
ProphetM I would have to agree, even if the weight was the same. Even a really popular convertible like the Mustang makes up just 20% of production compared to the coupe version. If the model 3 is meant to be a car for the masses then they would do well to keep it simple. They will already be selling everything they can produce for quite a long time with just a sedan and crossover/wagon. Doing the design and engineering for even a coupe seems like wasted effort, and even more so for a niche vehicle like a convertible.�
Jul 20, 2015
James Anders Well if they're going to make a new Roadster anyway - a convertible is about the same.
One compromise for a new Roadster / Convertible could be slightly higher side sills and the addition of a center structural "hump" or tunnel (no flat floor). That might be a reasonable trade-off for a 2 seat Roadster or a 2+2 seat convertible.�
Jul 27, 2015
Newb In the most recent 60 minutes video (AUS) there was a pan view of the camera which shows a strangely shaped car under a cover, which to me is what pmadflyer described here, namely the model 3 clay model with a different style on each side - this could potentially be it:
thoughts?�
Jul 27, 2015
JRP3 
�
Jul 27, 2015
ecarfan It makes no sense to me to make a clay model with two very different looks on each side. But I know nothing about auto design. I do believe there currently is a full scale Model 3 clay model in the Hawthorne design studio but doubt it would have been present during that 60 Minutes shoot. Still, the model you are referring to does seem significantly smaller than the partially revealed X clay model�
Jul 27, 2015
JER It's normal to trial different shapes on each side of the clay. They don't even try to match the two sides by sculpting - that's done digitally after 3D scanning.
What is not normal is for it to be so radically asymmetrical. That's probably something laid on top of the model, perhaps as a disguise.�
Jul 27, 2015
pmadflyer It's a fish eye lense, so the objects in the background will look smaller than you'd expect. Look at the poles for reference.�
Jul 27, 2015
Model 3 And that is what it looks like to me...�
Jul 27, 2015
Newb Alright, here's my full WAG on this picture:
@mods: Sorry for cross-posting, but I think it's worth the separate discussions on that.�
Jul 27, 2015
GregRF Here is the quote from the waitbutwhy article:
�
Jul 27, 2015
MorrisonHiker What's that between the clay models of the X and the 3? The Power Wheels version of the S? ;-)�
Jul 27, 2015
tga The 3D milling setup shown here: Model X Mule Sightings - Page 181�
Jul 27, 2015
ecarfan Greg, you nailed it. I read the Wait But Why piece last month but forgot about that. It does seem likely that the odd shaped model shown in that photo is what was described.�
Jul 27, 2015
GregRF Interesting that the clay Model X was designed without side view mirrors, but the model on the far right seems to be designed with them. Can't tell if the 2 body frankenstein car has them or not.�
Jul 30, 2015
Newb Alright - I agree with you that the strangely asymmetrical / Frankenstein clay model is the one referred to in the waitbutwhy article (potentially half crossover, half sedan). I've fixed that guess in the picture:
�
Jul 30, 2015
GregRF I'm getting more curious about the one on the far right. We've heard before that there were 2 competing designs for the model 3, one conservative and one a bit more extreme. If it has to do with model 3 my guess would be the "conservative" design. Its hard to determine the size, it could also possibly be a Model S refresh design.�
Aug 7, 2015
xavistark What about the model 3 experimental to be a Tesla Roadster 2 gen?�
Aug 7, 2015
ryanjm There appears to be another car/model of some kind hiding behind the black barricade behind the clay model of the X. See the two wheels under there?
- - - Updated - - -
I posted this in the other thread, but the car under the cover on the far right is significantly wider than the half-and-half Model 3, and it definitely resembles an S in its width and profile. I think you're right that it's either a plain ol' S (though if so, why have it under cover), or more likely, as you said, an S refresh.�
Aug 8, 2015
Model 3 No, I see three wheels - and two shadows on the floor - behind that. So it's not one another car/model, but two... And probably also two behind the white barricade behind the TMX RC, and still one behind the black beside the 007-Lotus.�
Aug 8, 2015
fosking I noticed this also, very interesting!�
Aug 9, 2015
Merrill I heard that eventually Tesla wants the model 3 to be a sedan, coupe, convertible and cuv.�
Aug 11, 2015
Vitold Don's forget that Model 3 skateboard will be used for Roadster 2.0�
Aug 11, 2015
ecarfan Maybe. That is speculation at this point, as the next Roadster is several years away from going into production.
And I would suggest not calling the next Roadster the "Roadster 2.0" since the original Roadster was sold in three versions; 1.5, 2.0, and 2.5.�
Aug 11, 2015
ryanjm Won't the Model 3 skateboard be a bit long for a two-seater sports car? Unless you think Roadster Next is a coupe, a la the Nissan GT-R?�
Aug 11, 2015
stopcrazypp It could be a 2+2 or a longer "roadster" like the California or Aventador (not as short like the original Tesla Roadster).�
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