teslamotorclub: First Impression: Not Happy part 2

Today we picked up our much anticipated CPO P85. I've been lurking on the forum and heard great things about the CPO program and that cars were re-conditioned to excellent condition as expected of any CPO program. We were in good hands - I was certain.

I dont feel great right now. Our car was in a very obvious sand storm and has pitting on all front paint and glass. I showed this to the advisor and was met with, "its a used car," and "we'll see what we can do." Other minor things were a tear in the seat leather and the previous owners make up stains on the alcantara headliner.

I just sold my 7 Series BMW and had all imperfections re-painted, wheels refreshed and put new tires on for the new owner. I spent $1500 so it looked like new for the elated guy that came to my home to purchase. Now I'm told I just bought a used car in worse condition than the one I just sold, and "we'll see what we can do."

Yeah, we shouldn't have accepted the car, but we've been driving our family around and to work with one car and catching rides for the last month. We do love the car and the experience is super cool, but not knowing if the car will be fixed to CPO standards is a bad feeling. Kind of a pit in my stomach. I told the advisor who was 100% non-committal the whole time, "Imagine if you just spent 70K on a car and you discover it needs a new windshield and new headlights, fog lights and the whole front needs repainting...

Hopefully, they will fix and I'm going to request a set of 21 inch wheels to make us feel better for the hassle of this bad experience.
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Honestly I think you are crazy for accepting it. I would have just said no and asked for a different CPO.
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I know... We just hope they will make it right.
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I doubt you will be comped new wheels if they were noncommittal about the pitting.

Good luck.
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Photos ?
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I'll take some and post. Pitting is hard to see and the only way I caught it was the very bright overhead lights in the showroom. They took it to the service center to try to fix these issues, but I told them it needs new paint and all the glass needs replacing. When they brought it outside, even the non-committal advisor had to admit that there was pitting everywhere and white spots were apparent on the hood, glass and bumper.
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I have to say, your story would make a lot more sense to me if e.g. the show-room obscured the damage and it was quite clear when you got home and looked at the car in normal sunlight. In that case I would feel duped. In your case ... I'm also at a loss to understand why you took delivery of a car you consider unacceptable from the get-go.
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We took the car because we believe in Tesla and believe they will make it right. If we didn't take the car, they would have to fix anyway for the next buyer.
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oy....your going to be disappointed. I was.

But I I hope it works out for you!
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GFORCED said: ?

I know... We just hope they will make it right.
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Agreed. I look at car before committing to anything. If it's a bad deal, walk away.
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Thanks for the feedback and I'm clear now I should have not accepted. But reminding me of this on every post is only rubbing salt into the wound. I was hoping my Tesla Brothers would lift my spirits and tell me how great things were going to be!
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I'm not here to pour salt in your wounds, so I'll leave with a suggestion: since the sale is only one day old perhaps Tesla will agree to a swap ?
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I can identify with what you are experiencing. I've bought new and used, and turned in lease vehicles, etc. Realistically, the only car you can expect (demand) to be perfect is a new one.... and having worked in an assembly plant for 15 years, I know that even a vehicle new from the factory can have a lot of blemishes (due to stuff that happens at the factory).

I don't know the details of Tesla's representation of what a CPO car is expected to be. If you were led to believe it should be "like new," then you have to press them to make it so. (Do they really say that in writing?)

My experience with buying CPO (Mercedes, Toyota), was that they were trying to make the car as nice as possible, but there is some normal wear and tear. Maybe that is in the eye of the beholder; but in each case, I felt I was getting a car with most of its usable life still remaining, but at a substantial discount (i.e., a good value), such that minor imperfections were not an issue to me.

So, in short, I feel your pain, but if you want new, you have to pay for new.
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GFORCED said: ?

I'm going to request a set of 21 inch wheels to make us feel better for the hassle of this bad experience.
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I think you may have got too many trophies as a kid.

With a good attitude, I think you and Tesla can come to a reasonable solution quickly. Pressing the "I demand" button after accepting delivery (and signing all those papers) leaves you vulnerable in this unfortunate situation. Good luck.
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Wasn't trying to rub it in. Sorry.

But you really should look on the much, much brighter side - you have an amazing car now. And worst case scenario is you spend $1-2K to make it look fantastic. I do hope you get this taken care of one way or another sooner than later, so that the pit in your stomach goes away. And then your baby will bring you nothing but joy!

Also, as NikeWings said, try not to come off too demanding (I wouldn't even mention additional rims). Tesla doesn't have to do jack for you at this point, so you'll likely get more out of them with a carrot and not a stick.

Good luck.
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I seriously considered a CPO before ordering. I did not have the same impression from reading other CPO purchasers experiences here. At best, the system is inconsistent. True, they may be able to make things right after the fact, but the idea that the cars are carefully reconditioned, or even cleaned up, is not what I saw reported from a significant number of buyers.
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Sorry to hear of your experience, and I feel your pain, so please don't take this wrong but when asked to post pictures you said:

GFORCED said: ?

I'll take some and post. Pitting is hard to see and the only way I caught it was the very bright overhead lights in the showroom.
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Can it really be that bad if it won't show up in pictures and the only way you caught it was in the bright lights? Again, I'm just asking.

GFORCED said: ?

other minor things were a tear in the seat leather and the previous owners make up stains on the alcantara headliner.
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Please post pictures of this damage.
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As I have stated previously, sand damage is extremely hard to notice unless in direct sunlight. Anyway, here are some pics.
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Front hood.
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It is hard to see in the pictures. It might be hard for me to refuse a car that I've been waiting on. I've never bought a new car without seeing it first.

I hope everything works out to your satisfaction. Good luck!
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Canuck said: ?

Can it really be that bad if it won't show up in pictures
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From personal experience I can say that it can be difficult to catch in a photo cosmetic damage that is easily seen by naked eye. So I was thinking more along the lines of "it is visible in a photo, it is obvious; if not visible, I don't know."

Perhaps OP just has buyer's remorse, but I give him the benefit of the doubt since we are talking about $80,000 here and high expectations are expected. Mostly though I agree with AB4EJ: CPO is not new, and customers have to make an individual decision whether the wear&tear is worth the discount. And then live with their decision.
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Right. If you see any white dots that's the damage my iPhone cannot quite focus in on. Basically it's hundreds of sand-blasted tiny blemishes that ruin paint and glass. Hard to see but nevertheless present and devalues the vehicle.
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GFORCED said: ?

Front hood.
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I'm no cosmetic expert, but I presume you are talking about what I would call water spots ?
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Bummer. Very frustrating. So sorry.

You might go to a detail shop and ask what can be taken out easily? One good detail might get you most of the way home?
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I can see it. I hope Tesla does the right thing and you get it fixed. Although you are not buying new, you do expect a certain level of finish. How bad is the leather tear and stains on the alcantara headliner?
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The other stuff is minimal. Paint and glass is major and ironically, I had a Maserati a few years back that I was caught in a sandstorm in Palm Springs. It did exactly the same thing to the front paint and glass and took 2 months to fix and billed my insurance 21K.
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My windshield started micropitting in the first few months. Had I known there were windshield issues I would have requested a replacement.

With CPO cars, caveat emptor unfortunately. Remember that a lot of CPO hubs and service centers are staffed with former stealership personnel.

Should I choose a CPO for the next chariot, my default position will be to hope all is well but to be fully prepared to not accept the car if it is in any way not as represented *or* as expected.

It's a shame that it has to be this way, but when it's my money and depreciation and lost time having to fix things that shouldn't have to be fixed, that's the way it is.

Good luck to the OP. Tesla has an opportunity to make it right. They usually do. Hopefully you won't have to escalate to a regional manager or further up the chain to reach some sort of reasonable accommodation.

The whole reason to buy CPO is for the C part. Makeup on the headliner? Really?
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Thanks Tao! You could tell "Jennifer" wore high heels that scraped the floor trim when getting in car as well. They erased her name that we saw on screen when demoing car for us.
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Many places have a (? 5 day) back-out law ... Perhaps where you are?
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TaoJones said: ?

The whole reason to buy CPO is for the C part.
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Certified ... to what ?
I've never been tempted by CPO, but I thought the value --- such as it is --- was extension of the new car warranty.
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Here are some of the minor issues. A small seat tear, scratched leather in seats, and scraped floor trim. These dont bother me as much as it is used, but paint needs to be in excellent condition for a CPO car.
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My 2013 S85 has a horribly pitted windshield. Makes me wonder what kind of cheap glass did Tesla use?! No previous car I ever owned showed this problem.

I also have rock chips in the windshield glass; one chip is turning into a crack. So I am not toooo upset as I figure that crack will grow and when it gets bad insurance will pay for a new windshield. I hope.
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Most insurances will replace a pitted windshield as its considered dangerous. Certainly any pitted windshield should be checked by a CPO team and replaced prior to selling. See this article from KBB: Pitted Windshields Repairing Suggestions | The Dangers and Causes of Pitted Windshields - Kelley Blue Book
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Did you look at the paperwork to see if there is a 3 day right of rescission clause?
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We received an email to bring car in on Monday to repair problems. We will be contacted by the pre-owned territory manager. I believe they will make things right and am expecting a positive outcome.
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GFORCED said: ?

Thanks Tao! You could tell "Jennifer" wore high heels that scraped the floor trim when getting in car as well. They erased her name that we saw on screen when demoing car for us.
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If you could see the previous owners name on a profile, that means the SC didn't properly prepare the car for delivery. They're suppose to do a reset to bring the software back to factory defaults. That's bad. Do you have addresses in the NAV?
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andrewket said: ?

If you could see the previous owners name on a profile, that means the SC didn't properly prepare the car for delivery. They're suppose to do a reset to bring the software back to factory defaults. That's bad. Do you have addresses in the NAV?
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I didn't see any but will take another look today. I did notice last night when I was programming garage remote that the name came up on the steering wheel screen.
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I dunno, some folks want a brand new car at used car prices.
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gaswalla said: ?

I dunno, some folks want a brand new car at used car prices.
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Exactly. Doesn't mention mechanical issues and doesn't tell us how much off price of a new car. Wish people like this would buy a new less expensive car with a new paint job
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AB4EJ said: ?

I can identify with what you are experiencing. I've bought new and used, and turned in lease vehicles, etc. Realistically, the only car you can expect (demand) to be perfect is a new one.... and having worked in an assembly plant for 15 years, I know that even a vehicle new from the factory can have a lot of blemishes (due to stuff that happens at the factory).

I don't know the details of Tesla's representation of what a CPO car is expected to be. If you were led to believe it should be "like new," then you have to press them to make it so. (Do they really say that in writing?)

My experience with buying CPO (Mercedes, Toyota), was that they were trying to make the car as nice as possible, but there is some normal wear and tear. Maybe that is in the eye of the beholder; but in each case, I felt I was getting a car with most of its usable life still remaining, but at a substantial discount (i.e., a good value), such that minor imperfections were not an issue to me.

So, in short, I feel your pain, but if you want new, you have to pay for new.
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I don't believe the OP stated that he/she wanted or expected "new".
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gaswalla said: ?

I dunno, some folks want a brand new car at used car prices.
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Indeed, the basic premise of economics: Unlimited want coupled with Limited means.
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GFORCED said: ?

Right. If you see any white dots that's the damage my iPhone cannot quite focus in on. Basically it's hundreds of sand-blasted tiny blemishes that ruin paint and glass. Hard to see but nevertheless present and devalues the vehicle.
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Your pictures show typical pitting that I have seen on sand storm damaged cars. Detailing won't come close to fixing this damage. The fog lights should polish out to lessen the issue. You need a new windshield and a repaint. This is ordinary wear on a 15 year old Arizona car. I'm sure Tesla will help. A decent dealer would fix this without question. CPO cars aren't perfect. You are asking for "clean", not perfect. I would still advise a gentle but persistent approach. The person you are talking to probably has very limited authority. You want an advocate not an enemy.
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Agreed PJFW8. I will follow that advice. The fact that the car had the previous owners name on it still, may indicate it wasn't thoroughly checked.

To the others that have bought a new car and are indicating "people like this" have "limited means," please remember these forums are for like minded Tesla owners to share stories, tips, experiences, and knowledge with each other. Some of us will meet up at local events. We all should be one. Insulting a CPO buyer because you've purchased new will not help build a forum, but push owners away. Please be respectful to all as I will be of you. Thanks.
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I read this entire thread looking for how many miles are on the odometer of this CPO car. I did not see a number. Perhaps I missed it. The photos show what appear to be not unusual wear and tear for a used car but without knowing the mileage I can't come to a firm conclusion. And of course the mileage is not the only factor. If the car was kept outdoors compared to indoors that will effect its appearance. And as some have noted if the car did encounter a significant sandstorm that will be hard on the exterior. Whether or not Tesla should replace the windshield or repaint the car is a matter of opinion. The bottom line to me is that it is a used car. Everyone is going draw a different line as to what is acceptable to them and what is not, it's a judgement call.
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Looks like a used car.
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ecarfan, my insurance has paid a claim on this exact same condition as "damage" before. So, to expect a decent paint job from a CPO car is not out of the ordinary from any manufacturer. Odometer reading has no relevancy as CPO is the same for any mileage car. Read Kelly Blue Book on how cars condition are rated. A CPO car should be in Excellent Condition. The car I have is in Fair Condition.

How Kelley Blue Book Works

Excellent condition means that the vehicle looks new, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. This vehicle has never had any paint or body work and is free of rust. The vehicle has a clean Title History and will pass a smog and safety inspection. The engine compartment is clean, with no fluid leaks and is free of any wear or visible defects. The vehicle also has complete and verifiable service records. Less than 5 percent of all used vehicles fall into this category.

Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.

Fair condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.

Poor condition means that the vehicle has severe mechanical and/or cosmetic defects and is in poor running condition. The vehicle may have problems that cannot be readily fixed such as a damaged frame or a rusted-through body. A vehicle with a branded title (salvage, flood, etc.) or unsubstantiated mileage is considered "poor." A vehicle in poor condition may require an independent appraisal to determine its value.

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My car's got 56,000 miles on it in about a year and a half, is parked outside 100% of the time, and looks infinitely better than that. No offense meant, but that amount of damage would disqualify sale as a CPO at most high end stealerships.

Now, in fairness, if it was disclosed up front, *maybe* it would sneak by as a CPO at, say, a Toyota lot, but it's pushing it for sure.

CPO is not "used". It's CPO. Know the difference, as that's what you're paying a premium for.
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Well spoken TaoJones. The cars Tesla chooses to offer in their CPO program should be in the top 5% in excellent condition. Thats why its Certified.
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GFORCED said: ?

Well spoken TaoJones. The cars Tesla chooses to offer in their CPO program should be in the top 5% in excellent condition. Thats why its Certified.
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Thanks and agreed.

While all CPO cars are in fact not new and therefore used, not all used cars, by far, qualify as CPO.

In fact, my car is disqualified from being a CPO car. Too many miles. Which, when you think about it, is even more sad given the mantra that mileage shouldn't matter as much. While wear is wear (see lack of ESA past 100,000 miles), I bet there are 100,000 mile cars out there with fine cosmetics and suspensions in good condition. Would be interesting to see pictures of some of those 100,000 mile cars, but I digress.

I've toyed with the idea of GRVing my car back to Tesla and then buying it as a CPO for the 4-year warranty. Financial non-sense of that and the mileage disqualification aside, I really like the full-sized frunk and microwave combined with the AP and the fact that the aftermarket stuff is already done.

So back to self-ESAing I go. Not the worst thing in the world.
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I think Tesla's CPO process involves two steps: wash car and sell car. The new owner then gets to complete the "certification" process via after the fact repairs (which you HOPE are covered under warranty). Good times.
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I think Tesla's CPO process involves two steps: wash car and sell car. The new owner then gets to complete the "certification" process via after the fact repairs (which you HOPE are covered under warranty). Good times.
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LOL in this case, yes.
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I also think the review process occuring indoors also serves to make a lot of the defects much less visible. It's fine to do so for most of it (much more comfortable), but ideally final inspection would occur outdoors in the sun. In addition, the process doesn't actually include a test drive which would also help to discover a number of issues (or at least the obvious ones). Of course the latter are easier to address as after-the-fact repairs.

I picked up a used M5 from a Colorado dealer years ago. Windshield was very pitted and th first time I polished it with a rotary polisher, all of the touch-up up paint in the road rash came right out (not uncommon). I retouched up the road rash myself (Dr. Colorchip system has become my favorite) and had the windshield replaced (both on my own dime). However, the M5 windshield cost me around $425, whereas the Tesla windshield is $1600...that's painful!
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TaoJones said: ?

CPO is not "used". It's CPO. Know the difference, as that's what you're paying a premium for.
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Certified "Pre-Owned" is not used? Pre-Owned = used.

Regardless, the finish is not acceptable, and I hope Tesla does the right thing and makes it right.
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TaoJones said: ?

CPO is not "used". It's CPO. Know the difference, as that's what you're paying a premium for.
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And based on the discussion in this thread and others I have read on TMC, it's not clear to some people what that difference is. You say you "know the difference", so please explain what you think the difference is besides simply mileage as you state in your post upthread (and my request to the OP for the mileage of his CPO car continues to go unanswered). Also, please provide a Tesla Motors source that supports your explanation. If you can't provide a Tesla Motors source than you are simply offering your opinion.

I have searched online to try to find any statement from Tesla that defines what criteria the company uses to to determine is acceptable for the CPO cars they sell. I haven't found it yet, but recall reading somewhere some information that a TMC member received from Tesla regarding, for example, the maximum size of a stone chip allowed on a CPO car they were selling.

The CPO warranty doesn't seem to address the issue. See https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model-s-preowned-warranty.pdf
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Gforced, I saw the pictures you posted of the pitting and am wondering if some of that can be buffed out with a special compound? There are products on the market that can help, and a reputable detailer may be able to clear up most of the issues. Hopefully Tesla can do this, or compensate you for the work along with other repairs such as for the leather. As you mentioned, at least it's hard to see the pitting unless you're up close.

Long term, you may want to wrap your car. I know some people here who have had their cars wrapped with XPEL: XPEL Protective Films - XPEL.
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Hi, @GFORCED,

I think you have hit on one of the problems with Tesla's CPO program. The pictures you see in their advertisements are all of cars that look great -- they are idealized -- you do NOT get to see actual pictures of the actual car. That means the first time you see the vehicle is when you are about to sign for it, which is a tense situation. It's different from the typical CPO or used car situation where you see the vehicle before you even think about going off to do any paperwork.

On the one hand, Tesla is trying to do something new in the CPO business: create a nation-wide pool of cars, all in theory brought up to their corporate standards for a CPO vehicle, which a customer can in theory rely upon to find the perfect match for their budget and desires. But on the other hand, IMHO they are raising the bar which in turn creates new issues such as the customer meeting his sand-pitted car for the first time.

I'm not going to repeat everyone else's comments about accepting such a vehicle, but I will say that I understand how in that situation you might feel like you would want to accept the car but also would hope Tesla would "make everything right". I'm afraid that even Tesla will try not to put more money into a CPO, though. :-(

I hope by the time I've read to the end of this thread that I'll discover a happy resolution to your problem.

Alan
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Sand damage cannot be buffed out. It needs new paint. I have had this same situation before which is probably why I noticed it.

Ecarfan the mileage is 36K and the car is a 2014. I do agree with you that it states in the CPO guide that no paint scratch should be longer than 1/4 inch. But it is not specifying anything about sand damage. Any insurance company will repair sand/wind damage as an "act of God" and it is not that big of a deal. I'm just asking Tesla to make it right. I'm not going to respond to semantics about the difference about used or CPO. Had I walked into a used car lot to buy a used Tesla and pointed out sand damage, the salesman would either fix the damage or I wouldn't buy the car and leave.

In this case I expected a CPO reconditioned car that was at the reconditioning center for 4 days and upon delivery received a car with damaged paint.
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same cast of characters in here giving you a hard time....its not shocking.
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Pollux said: ?

...I think you have hit on one of the problems with Tesla's CPO program. The pictures you see in their advertisements are all of cars that look great -- they are idealized -- you do NOT get to see actual pictures of the actual car. That means the first time you see the vehicle is when you are about to sign for it, which is a tense situation...
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Not necessarily. I got pictures of the actual car I bought (which was in Washington DC with Virginia plates) and could see that it was in excellent condition. It helped that it was low mileage and less than two years old, something I paid a bit extra for. The other car I was considering didn't have pictures available so I went with the one that did. The first time I saw the car was when it was delivered by transport truck to the tiny town nearest my remote home. I had never even sat in a Tesla, much less driven one before. It was in immaculate, near new, condition.

Given the experiences of the OP and some others, if I had it to do over again and was buying a CPO with significant miles on it, I think I'd ask to see the car before taking delivery. But refusing it would mean losing my deposit and the $1500 transport fee (if it came from a long way away) so it is still a gamble unless they could come up with a suitable replacement. At the very least, I'd ask for pictures; it shouldn't be that hard for the Tesla people to arrange.
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Good points dgpcolorado. Also good point The Q. I've been on these forums as a car enthusiast for over a decade. Always people like that. I enjoy meeting them at car shows as they seem to be much more polite in person. ;-)
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dgpcolorado said: ?

Not necessarily. I got pictures of the actual car I bought (which was in Washington DC with Virginia plates) and could see that it was in excellent condition. It helped that it was low mileage and less than two years old, something I paid a bit extra for. The other car I was considering didn't have pictures available so I went with the one that did. The first time I saw the car was when it was delivered by transport truck to the tiny town nearest my remote home. I had never even sat in a Tesla, much less driven one before. It was in immaculate, near new, condition.

Given the experiences of the OP and some others, if I had it to do over again and was buying a CPO with significant miles on it, I think I'd ask to see the car before taking delivery. But refusing it would mean losing my deposit and the $1500 transport fee (if it came from a long way away) so it is still a gamble unless they could come up with a suitable replacement. At the very least, I'd ask for pictures; it shouldn't be that hard for the Tesla people to arrange.
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Huh. So pictures are taken if you request them? Or sometimes are given to you anyway even though you didn't initiate a request? Does Tesla have any rules or guidelines for providing pictures of the actual car? Do you know if the pictures you saw were taken by the previous owner or by Tesla?

I'm a P85+ owner and sometimes think about a CPO for The Wife. Instead, I've reserved a couple of Model 3s, but the wait until they arrive causes me to constantly think about buying another new or CPO S.

Thanks,
Alan
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TheQ said: ?

same cast of characters in here giving you a hard time....its not shocking.
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Please be honest. You must know that I'm part of the "cast of characters" that gave you "a hard time" in your thread:

To Elon Musk RE: My Former Model X

But I'm with the OP here. Some of us look at the facts, and the manner in which the OP comes across in presenting the facts, in order to assess credibility, and then form our opinions accordingly.

But nice try in painting us all with the same brush.
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I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.
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When I got my CPO, I got a folder and a list of all the things they did to the car as part of the CPO process. Did you get anything like that?

But there were things they checked that they did, but missed and subsquently made right too. The thing I missed was how pitted the windshield was, and still is. I did not notice it until I was driving west into the setting sun days later. I took the approach that I bought a $100K car for $50K with 49,000 miles on it. Tesla service has been great about a number of issues over the last 10 months and have paid nothing. So I really have no complaints.

The first 24 hours were tense though, noise issues, that were totaly solved by adjusting the rear hatch. As an aside, adjusting the hatch turned the thought that I had made the worst used car buying situation around to the best. Should they have caught it prior to delivery, Sure, but it got fixed in the first week.

I still have the pitted window and will replace it. But it is still not so bad that I would call it dangerous, but it is not clear.

I hope that you can get some results from Tesla, but a repaint is doubtful, as are new wheels. Maybe the front windshield if it is so bad that you could argue the safety issue.

Your only recourse may be to return it if possible, but I remember being told verbally and in writing that California has no cooling off period when signing automobile purchase agreements.

Tesla is walking a very fine line of trying offer a better buying experience, and at the same time make money. If they reconditioned CPOs to like new, then they would be priced much closer to that, and in some cases are. But, each service center seems to have a different metric to what that looks look like and how to achieve that.

Good luck.
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GFORCED said: ?

I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.
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Please post the document here so we can all see it.
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Pollux said: ?

Huh. So pictures are taken if you request them? Or sometimes are given to you anyway even though you didn't initiate a request? Does Tesla have any rules or guidelines for providing pictures of the actual car? Do you know if the pictures you saw were taken by the previous owner or by Tesla?

I'm a P85+ owner and sometimes think about a CPO for The Wife. Instead, I've reserved a couple of Model 3s, but the wait until they arrive causes me to constantly think about buying another new or CPO S.

Thanks,
Alan
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I was working with Brent Seavey, who is based in the Chicago area I believe, and handles used and inventory sales for the Midwest and Mountain regions. Without me asking, he sent me a half dozen pictures of one of the CPOs I said I was interested in and said that pictures of the other one (located in Boston) weren't available. It was clear that the pictures were taken of the car at the store or service center (probably DC since that was where the car was supposed to be located). The car hadn't been cleaned up at all (trash and old coffee cups in the interior); that was done after my purchase. Whether there is policy to to provide pictures, I couldn't say. But it couldn't hurt to ask.
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GFORCED said: ?

I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.
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Please send that document to me please. Also, could you take a picture from inside your car pointing towards the sun to see the pits. Your may be way worse than mine. I see and feel two or three of them, but otherwise it is really like the lightest of frosting.
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The document appears to be an internal doc and I was asked not to publicly post. It states what I need it to state so I'm satisfied.
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Camera-Cruiser said: ?

Please send that document to me please. Also, could you take a picture from inside your car pointing towards the sun to see the pits. Your may be way worse than mine. I see and feel two or three of them, but otherwise it is really like the lightest of frosting.
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Camera Cruiser my iPhone camera cannot focus in on the sand pitted marks. There are thousands of them just like if you sand-blasted any paint. Your insurance very likely covers a new windshield for correcting your pitting problem as it is a hazard and in my case is a $100 deductible. Call your carrier to see if your covered. There are also different state laws. But I'm in LA so we're under the same law.
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GFORCED said: ?

The document appears to be an internal doc and I was asked not to publicly post. It states what I need it to state so I'm satisfied.
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Hopefully, whoever sent it to you will read Camera-Cruiser's post and send him a copy too.
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Canuck said: ?

Hopefully, whoever sent it to you will read Camera-Cruiser's post and send him a copy too.
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Yes, but he said its been 10 months. Doubtful Tesla has any liability, but an easy fix for $100 and an insurance claim.
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ecarfan said: ?

And based on the discussion in this thread and others I have read on TMC, it's not clear to some people what that difference is. You say you "know the difference", so please explain what you think the difference is besides simply mileage as you state in your post upthread (and my request to the OP for the mileage of his CPO car continues to go unanswered). Also, please provide a Tesla Motors source that supports your explanation. If you can't provide a Tesla Motors source than you are simply offering your opinion.

I have searched online to try to find any statement from Tesla that defines what criteria the company uses to to determine is acceptable for the CPO cars they sell. I haven't found it yet, but recall reading somewhere some information that a TMC member received from Tesla regarding, for example, the maximum size of a stone chip allowed on a CPO car they were selling.

The CPO warranty doesn't seem to address the issue. See https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model-s-preowned-warranty.pdf
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If you insist upon this pattern of being anal retentive with regard to what others post, then be all means, knock yourself out.

However, don't misquote what others post. I did not "say" "you" (meaning I) "know the difference". I typed "Know the difference...". There's a difference there. Not to belabor the point.

Here's the deal for anyone else who's missed the forest for the trees: All CPOs are by definition used cars - hence the term "pre-owned" implying titled/registered by some entity, but all used cars are not by definition CPO cars. CPO infers "Certified" which implies at minimum some sort of checklist of steps taken to ensure that the car is not crap.

To ecarfan's underlying concern, ostensibly, I have no idea who certifies the certifiers or if Tesla has taken the time to disclose their criteria - makes absolutely no difference to the prospective buyer in any case.

But I do know that a CPO car should not have what could be $20,000 worth of damage (see Maserati insurance claim above). It should not have makeup stains on the headliner. If it does, and if a company wants to sell it as CPO, then develop a policy that states something such as "exceptions noted". Even that's thin, since a car either qualifies or it doesn't, one would think.

There's another problem here, but it's a solvable one for now. Demand is so high for these cars, that you can't really blame a busy CPO hub for trying to move a blemished unit. But it may be time for a second category - PO, instead of CPO. Opens up a whole 'nother bag of tricks and it may be too soon. That said, would you feel more comfortable buying a higher-mileage (a poor delimiter but enough about that) or cosmetically blemished car from Tesla or from some one-off Ye Olde House of Used Chariots that wouldn't know an EV from a turnip?

It's a separate discussion, admittedly. For now, I'd be happy with better attention to detail and more disclosure up front from the CPO hubs. I'm glad people post these experiences so that Tesla can improve the owner and CPO-buying experience.
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TaoJones said: ?

But I do know that a CPO car should not have what could be $20,000 worth of damage (see Maserati insurance claim above). It should not have makeup stains on the headliner. If it does, and if a company wants to sell it as CPO, then develop a policy that states something such as "exceptions noted". Even that's thin, since a car either qualifies or it doesn't, one would think.
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Yup. I would say that a CPO should not have this. I gave them a pass on the omitted windshield, but I consider mine minor. They dealt with everything else I asked them too. To be clear, I have never asked them to replace the windshield.

I hope the OP can get it fixed, or returned. It's gut wrenching to have the car you want, but not the way you wanted it, or should have received it.

Moving this forward, if the OP decides to keep it, the paint could take a month or more based on all the body shop delays we've all read about here. So, will they provide a loaner?
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Yes camera cruiser they will provide a loaner. I did get an email after delivery from our advisor that they will take the car back and fix it. All good and thanks for your comments and concern!
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I think the problem is that you don't get to see photos of the actual car on the website like you would any other used car. Sometimes Tesla prices are odd as well, where you might see two of what appears to be very similar cars (options, VIN range, mileage) and one is listed for several thousand less than the other. Is the cheaper car in worse shape?

You also don't have time to request photos of well priced cars before they are sold sometimes. I have seen cars appear and be sold in just a few hours. So as a buyer, you get to feeling like when your car pops up, you have to immediately jump on it and trust Tesla will take care of the rest. Sure, you can always back out upon seeing the vehicle in person, but I doubt you'll get the shipping costs back, so it's a risk.

I wish Tesla posted photos like Carmax does. I have confidently bought a vehicle from across the country from Carmax, and when it arrived, it was exactly like the photos. I suppose since Teslas CPO fleet are loaners, though, they might not be able to maintain photos.

OP: please keep us posted if Tesla makes it right. It will help out those of us still in the process.
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I will keep you posted Az-Rael. And I agree with your comment. The process is not quite transparent, but I think my encounter is a rare one. I was lucky to catch the flawed paint. When they drove it into the sunlight, only then was it really obvious to everyone.
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GFORCED said: ?

Sand damage cannot be buffed out. It needs new paint. I have had this same situation before which is probably why I noticed it.

Ecarfan the mileage is 36K and the car is a 2014. I do agree with you that it states in the CPO guide that no paint scratch should be longer than 1/4 inch. But it is not specifying anything about sand damage. Any insurance company will repair sand/wind damage as an "act of God" and it is not that big of a deal. I'm just asking Tesla to make it right. I'm not going to respond to semantics about the difference about used or CPO. Had I walked into a used car lot to buy a used Tesla and pointed out sand damage, the salesman would either fix the damage or I wouldn't buy the car and leave.

In this case I expected a CPO reconditioned car that was at the reconditioning center for 4 days and upon delivery received a car with damaged paint.
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@GFORCED,

You may have mentioned up thread but don't recall seeing it.....where did this CPO come from (originate)? Not Pickup SC but originate?

Ski
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GFORCED said: ?

ecarfan, my insurance has paid a claim on this exact same condition as "damage" before. So, to expect a decent paint job from a CPO car is not out of the ordinary from any manufacturer. Odometer reading has no relevancy as CPO is the same for any mileage car. Read Kelly Blue Book on how cars condition are rated. A CPO car should be in Excellent Condition. The car I have is in Fair Condition.

How Kelley Blue Book Works

Excellent condition means that the vehicle looks new, is in excellent mechanical condition and needs no reconditioning. This vehicle has never had any paint or body work and is free of rust. The vehicle has a clean Title History and will pass a smog and safety inspection. The vehicle also has complete and verifiable service records. Less than 5 percent of all used vehicles fall into this category.

Good condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.

Fair condition means that the vehicle has some mechanical or cosmetic defects and needs servicing but is still in reasonable running condition. This vehicle has a clean Title History, the paint, body and/or interior need work performed by a professional. The tires may need to be replaced. There may be some repairable rust damage.

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I agree with most of what you say in this thread (that you deserve a car that was checked out and refurbished were needed) but by definition there is no way a CPO will meet that "excellent condition" which requires "This vehicle has never had any paint or body work". As soon as they do one repair for a minor blemish it has had some paint work.

I'd argue there needs to be a Very Good in between Excellent and Good in that list and that CPOs should be Very Good at a minimum but if the categories can't be modified that you should expect Good and only Good out of a CPO. There just isn't enough leeway in that definition of Excellent for a CPO to fit in there most of the time.
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GFORCED said: ?

I just received a Tesla document from a forum member that states that pitted windshields must be replaced and if a body panel has more than 10 chips it must be repainted. So I'm sure Tesla will honor that and thanks to the forum members for welcoming me.
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@GFORCED,

Can a link to that document or the Document for that be posted as a courtesy for me? I'm looking at CPOs and might need it.

Ski
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Skione65 said: ?

@GFORCED,

You may have mentioned up thread but don't recall seeing it.....where did this CPO come from (originate)? Not Pickup SC but originate?

Ski
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I'm going to bet that's a northern climate car with a decent amount of highway driving. That sort of pitting, especially on the headlight covers is a symptom of winter highway driving on sanded roads. If I showed you a picture of my Audi A4 headlight covers, you'd wonder how any light is escaping.
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Alketi said: ?

If I showed you a picture of my Audi A4 headlight cover, you'd wonder how any light is escaping.
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So true. The same thing happened to my Tahoe hybrid that gets blasted constantly driving over two mountain passes in the winter to my cabin. But I bought a headlight cleaner kit that included a sanding disc and some paste, like this one, and it worked wonders in making them clear again...

3M Headlight Restoration Kit - Walmart.com
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Skione65 said: ?

@GFORCED,

You may have mentioned up thread but don't recall seeing it.....where did this CPO come from (originate)? Not Pickup SC but originate?

Ski
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Los Angeles, Centinela. Went to Buena Park to be reconditioned.

Alketi said: ?

I'm going to bet that's a northern climate car with a decent amount of highway driving. That sort of pitting, especially on the headlight covers is a symptom of winter highway driving on sanded roads. If I showed you a picture of my Audi A4 headlight covers, you'd wonder how any light is escaping.
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I've had a house in Palm Springs for years. To get there off the 10 freeway to the 111, you need to intersect the wind corridor. It gets pretty bad at times. I have ruined paint and glass on a couple cars there.

I did request the Carfax for this car, but never received it. Looks like pretty typical damage that I've personally encountered in the past. The truth is, if you don't look really close, you literally cannot see it. For the headlights they have to be turned on to see. For the windshield, you have to look into the sun.
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Alketi said: ?

I'm going to bet that's a northern climate car with a decent amount of highway driving. That sort of pitting, especially on the headlight covers is a symptom of winter highway driving on sanded roads. If I showed you a picture of my Audi A4 headlight covers, you'd wonder how any light is escaping.
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@Alketi,

That's initially what I thought....but then thought more of a desert area climate like Arizona.

Ski
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NikeWings said: ?

I think you may have got too many trophies as a kid.

With a good attitude, I think you and Tesla can come to a reasonable solution quickly. Pressing the "I demand" button after accepting delivery (and signing all those papers) leaves you vulnerable in this unfortunate situation. Good luck.
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I think he should ask for a pony, too.
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My Tesla coordinator called today to inform me they will fix the issues. I was expecting to drop off today but they have no loaners until 9/22 and it may take 2 to 3 weeks.

Still holding out for the 21s.
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I think Tesla's CPO program needs to be a lot better and more consistent. Many of Tesla's supporters try hard to make a point that Tesla is not a car company per se, but a tech company. Therefore, it should be 2nd nature to take a bunch of high res photos of the car, zooming in on potential problem areas, and post them on the website. Upthread someone mentioned that if the buyer refused acceptance of the car, s/he will lose the deposit and transport fee. That's just not acceptable. If Tesla wants to not deal with the headache of issues presenting themselves at pick-up time, the photos will help a great deal imo.
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I'm guessing my experience was a rare occurrence and Tesla will make it right. How they missed this stuff is beyond me, but when they repair all damage to CPO standard, they have shown good customer service.
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First Impression: Not Happy part 2

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