Thứ Bảy, 4 tháng 2, 2017

Chevy Bolt team must be really pulling their hair out after a today's tweets from Elon! part 1

  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    1. AWD with super responsive high performance acceleration, probably under 4 secs 0-60 mph, for under $5K
    2. Spaceship type steering and dash standard
    3. Room for a minimum of 2 child seats, maybe 3 narrow ones like in Europe
    4. Can fit a bike or a surfboard , plus optional towing hitch
    5 Base RWD will be good enough even on ice for traction
    6. More cowbells and whistles not yet divulged

    Add to all of the above single beautiful glass Panaromic roof , Supercharger network ....and the list goes on.

    Chevy has got to sell their Bolts before Tesla rolls them out and possibly before Part 2 of Model 3 reveal !

    It's not any one thing folks, but All of it taken together is just so much that it must scare the daylight a out of MB, BMW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan etc.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Branzo90D
    Unless I am mistaken, GM just dropped their announced price for the Bolt. Likely for exactly the list of reasons you state, as well as several others which may become apparent as we go forward.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    voltage
    I must have missed the under 4sec quote. Hard to believe <$5k for this level of performance.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    That's why I said ' probably '. That's what has been rumored for the performance version. Maybe there will be more than one upgrade option ...AWD for under $5 K ( dunno how much maybe like $3,750) and then another option on top of that like Ludicrous mode that takes it to under 4 secs.

    Let's remember that Model 3 is and has been designed completely new/from scratch from the bottom up and per JB Straubel shares hardly any common components for manufacturing.

    Even other features and actual stats for even base M3 not yet revealed, but I expect 5.4 secs ( even maybe 5.2 secs) for base model on 0-60 mph performance,
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    mkjayakumar
    GM dropped the price of Bolt? When did that happen?
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Really ! I did not hear that either....I don't think so.

    Maybe poster is confused by article that claimed $28,500 price after rebate on Bolt?
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    calisnow
    I agree with your general point OP but my guess is the "P" version of the Model 3 with sub-4 sec acceleration will cost considerably more than $5K.

    But fear not - I have a "slow" Model S 70D - but it feels ridiculously quick and makes passengers giggle when I stomp on the throttle. You will be very satisfied with the instant torque no matter what Model 3 you buy. :)
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Craig9080
    The Bolt is a vastly inferior product. It is the modern day G-Wiz, an abomination of a concept just to check a few boxes. IMHO it couldn't compete at $20K OTD. It just screams "LOOK at MEEEE, I have a BATTERY!" and then it fails in every single catagory compared to the 3
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    And add to above list that Ride suspension dynamically adjusts to ride height, STANDARD on M3.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    yesup
    But Bolt has 360 degree surround camera.... and rear view camera + display screen for rear view "mirror"...
    something I wish we have for the Model 3.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    S'toon
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    I will happily pay more than the $5 K to get under 4 secs 0-60 acceleration if it also includes say AWD. I think even at say $ 7500 for both included.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Bimbels
    he was on FIRE today. Keep those reservations coming in!
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    MikeC
    You may be thinking of the April fools article that said they were dropping the price to $20?

    Someone else fell for the beta testing Model 3 April fools joke. There's enough confusion about rumors and speculation already on TMC that we don't need all these April fools confusing people even more.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    SarahsDad
  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Did Elon just delete his tweet about a spaceship like steering system ? Maybe he thought he divulged too much, too early and that it might actually confuse people and make them think it would be too geeky and too different ?
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    wallet.dat
    I suspect you're correct, but since neither vehicle is actually out yet, there's really no way to be sure. However, the Bolt is certainly far better than any ICE offering in it's class for one obvious reason ;)
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Bimbels
    I still see it.....
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    wallet.dat
    Please cite a source for this. Link to the tweet?
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Sorry see above. I already clarified this ....
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    EXOTIC1
    i think you'll be looking closer to 20k upgrade for the performance of under 4 sec if that even is an option
    still would be agreat buy at 55k
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    frozenpenguin
    He said AWD will be less than $5K. He did not mention performance upgrade price: Elon Musk on Twitter
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    MP3Mike
    He didn't say that the air suspension would be standard...
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Doubt it would as high as $20 K upgrade....remember there's not 300-500 k reservations for Model S and X combined.

    Optimization says the base car half the base of an S at $35 K, so maybe max at $10 K and sell 3 times as many option volume or more.

    I still gross profit margin on the upgrade option will still be about 50 PC, due to volume.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    kaess
    You are mistaken. I think several people are confused because the Chevy Bolt site (2017 Bolt EV: All-Electric Vehicle | Chevrolet) lists the price in large font at "$30K". That $30K price assumes the $7,500 federal tax rebate. The actual starting price of the Chevy Bolt is $37,500, so $2,500 more than the Model 3.

    One could argue that Chevy can be confident that $30K will be the effective starting price for all Bolts sold (meaning they know they will sell no where near 200K ;))
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Craig9080
    More lipstick on that pig still wont make it a beauty queen.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Dude, in reference to India roads, he said Model 3 would have that. For India I believe it will be in base model.

    And so, for us in the USA too...because of some roads in Texas, OK, etc. particularly in the absence of a truck in the current Tesla product line up.... Or maybe just only with the AWD option ?
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Zythryn
    I don't think this has caused the GM Bolt team any concern.

    A) They will get the Bolt to market a full year before the Model 3 and Tesla has a rep for late release dates and slow ramp ups.
    B) Different markets. Yes, they are both electric, but the Model 3 is more of a 3 series competitor than a small CUV competitor.
    C) The utility of the tiny trunk is vastly different than the more boxy, but utility friendly Bolt.

    Now, A) gives them first mover advantage. My personal belief is Tesla will hit their target date although I would certainly understand why some people don't believe that.
    B) and C) are what they are. Both cars will appeal to different parts of the market and I believe both will help expand the available market to encompass both companies selling as many as they can make.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Saghost
    Like a lot of today's interesting information, it was a reply to someone's question/comment - which twitter doesn't show in his feed by default. You need to click that "and replies" button on the feed.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    EXOTIC1
    So you're thinking the top of the line M3 is going to be under 50k?
    I think it's going to be over 60k with the top line options
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    ankitmishra
    No. Tesla is a business. They can't go on handing features for no price. In my opinion, Elon was just saying that Model 3 will have air suspension that can change ground clearance. No one will be getting any more than what they paid for.
    Also, I don't think P version of Model 3 will have sub 3 second performance. That's Model S territory.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    nativewolf
    At that price you are basically approaching model S pricing.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Saghost
    Up until the last few years, I believe the M3 has generally been quicker than the M5. Assuming Tesla clears a similar profit on the P version 3 series, why shouldn't they make it as fast or faster?
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Ed Hart
    Well....if both of these cars are about $35,000, which one would most people want?
    The Tesla will surely come in closer to $45,000 in the first year, but still.....

    Bolt vs Model X.jpg
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    I dunno...maybe you are right.

    BUT, I think as a strategic and military type plan, Elon and Tesla are trying to do many things at once :

    1. Gobble up/ suction/ vacuum up max potential EV demand (both current and latent ) in the $35-55K price band, so that Apple and/or Google will be forced to abandon any serious plans to enter this EV space with their own mass manufactured vehicle. So, I think Elon will keep aggressive pricing to fend off new entrants.

    2. Trying to bring in as much Space X type technology into Tesla to keep the rate of technological innovation at break neck speed so that traditional ICE manufacturers will be always be trying to catch up and unfortunately remain years behind Tesla.

    3. Simultaneously launching such a young company globally with such advanced mass market product.

    4. Wow the iPhone type mindset customer into a new era; where we have to rethink what our cars can do, versus what we can do with our cars.

    I am reminded of Wayne Gretzsky's famous quote : I am don't skate to where the puck is, but to where the puck is going to be ".

    I believe Elon will seriously ( and is seriously going to ) try to move his puck at great speed on many angles on his 4 dimensional chess board for the next decade......and the traditional ICE manufacturers will really be left far behind with aging plants, aging technology, and aging talent .....and they just will be left in such a confused competitive state.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Laserbrain

    My guess would be $15k. $4k for the second drive unit, $10k for the bigger battery and the Ludicrous fuse and $1k for the rest (suspension, spoiler, brakes, performance tires).

    Still a lot cheaper than a BMW M4.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    ankitmishra
    Because it will hurt sales of Model S. People pay $150000 to get that performance. It's the selling point for premium priced versions of S.
    If the sales of Model S gets hurt, it will hurt the brand image of Tesla. Brand image played a big role in 275000 reservations for Model 3 in my opinion. I also doubt that PM3 will have comparable margin to P90DS and X. IMHO.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Sub 3 sec ? I never said that...all I said was that the rumor was sub 4 sec ( maybe 3.8 sec) on Performance version of the Model 3.

    Elon already said today that Model 3 AWD will have faster performance than the sub 6 sec announced for the base model at the reveal, where he even said the base model they are aiming to do better. Elon did say that the AWD option will less than $5 K.

    So, IF the base model is say 5.4 secs, then I expect AWD to be close to say 4.6 secs and maybe the Performance version to be closer to 3.9 secs, for example.

    But don't worry the Performance version of the S by then will probably be close to mid 2 sec range ???
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Bimbels
    I don't think they will hold back on PXXDL for the 3. Elon likes fast cars. And those upgrades are profit.

    Elon is pretty adamant that the 3 will appeal to some people, while the S will appeal to others. he is not the least bit worried about cannibalizing sales.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Why are you assuming that the S performance will stand still by 2018 ?

    It's kinda like the max model of the IPhone 2 vs. original IPhone 4 etc. Did people complain, hey I paid more last year for my model, and this years model has better performance and price than last years model or the one 2 years ago ?

    Everything in Tesla's ecosystem ( including superchargers and battery pack density and cost ) will all improve in terms of performance. Tesla will still be able to differentiate products in the product line via size, quality ( all aluminum for example ), paint quality and also many other bells and whistles.

    The rising tide of innovation and technology will lift all boats in the Tesla product line up.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    nativewolf

    For better or worse I think you are missing the key ones, which might or might not make your argument stronger or weaker depending upon viewpoint.

    Ecosystem- create an ecosystem of charging, autonomous driving, and other systems that are tightly integrated.
    Energy- he's creating an energy ecosystem as the battery is the key to the whole thing. power generation/supply is really going to be a key determinant of success. Solar capture/energy storage/to transport.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Zythryn
    I suspect this is completely off base.
    Elon WANTS Apple, Google, and any other manufacturer to get into the EV business.
    He doesn't want them to abandon plans to enter the EV space, he wants them to help bring about the transition of transportation.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Rilla
    It still blows my mind the way Pam Fletcher talks about the Bolt like Chevy will be the class leader. Really forced marketing speak without a compelling vehicle to back it up. I even recall her in one interview claiming that it was Chevy that discovered the skateboard battery pack configuration to reduce center of gravity.

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  • Apr 3, 2016
    roblab
    I remember that! What happened? The engineers were told there was no use for it, and nothing happened. The difference is, that all the Tesla designers are engineers, and vice versa (not Versa vice). You gotta use it. I think all Chevy's patents expired. They didn't use a skateboard for the EV1, did they?
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    eye.surgeon
    The Bolt is a very nice product...don't know why all the Bolt hate around here. And it's going to be available long before the M3 so I don't see why GM would have to price-compete with a non-existent competitor. The Bolt is a sign of the success of the mission of Tesla.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    I'm not sure it's Bolt hate ! I think it's more the ethos of Steve Jobs. People here are a big Jobsian....don't care for shitty looking products that are personal ( you carry on you, or that carry you ! ).
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Bimbels
    I think in general there is much GM hate because of their legal battles against Tesla in many states. States that have banned tesla sales can thank GM for their lobbying. And the perception that their EV program is really just about compliance cars, and not actually furthering EVs. I believe there is a 30K/yr cap on the Bolt, which doesn't help with that....
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Well then why not show all the competition everything about the Model 3, put all autonomous software out on the internet free, open access, and share it, and while you are at it share all the software and technology that goes into the battery pack and drive train.

    I think anyone who confuses how competitive people like Elon Musk can be ( irrespective of wanting good things for humankind and by inference the environment of our planet) is confusing nature ( competitive nature of all people) with nurture ( wanting to take care of your child or care for your species at large and your home I.E. ecosystem of the earth).
    There is a ying and a yang to it, IMO.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Rilla
    For me personally I don't hate the Bolt just for being a competitor - I think competition is great.

    But we expect a lot more from the competition at this point. Nissan's IDS Concept (The Future of Autonomous Electric Driving) is much more compelling to me. While it is still a concept, at least Nissan is trying to make a great car that does more than check the boxes for an EV.

    I don't think the Bolt is a bad car - they did some things right. But I do think it will turn out to be far inferior to the Model 3, especially considering they are at the same price point.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Rilla
    I think making everything open source would work IF all of the automakers truly wanted to work together, but i think Tesla has to take things a bit further on its own first. Giving everything to other automakers would potentially result in a lot of poor execution and develop distrust of EVs/autonomous cars in the marketplace.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    techmaven
    No, he wants them to build EVs. But Tesla has to survive to accomplish that, so Tesla vehicles have to be competitive. Autonomous driving software does not have anything directly with EVs. The other companies don't need much more help, they just need the willpower.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Well, perhaps you didnt get the gist of what I was implying....that there are good reasons for Tesla and Elon to be just as competitive as Apple or Google or BMW...etc.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    S'toon
    I don't hate the Bolt. I just wish it were more practical. No included fast charging. GM has no intention whatsoever of building a fast charging network, by their own admission. Heck, the nearest CCS charging station is even further from me than the nearest Supercharger.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Quant
    Of course he does. I agree. But, IMO it requires more than willpower.

    IF they go too far, too fast. what will happen to the tens of billions of $ - each of them - has invested in ICE car design, and manufacturing and assembly plants for millions of cars per year, that have not had financial payback ( let alone return or positive net present value for their investors ).

    Combined, ICE manufacturers have invested over $300 billion new $ equivalents, in just the last 5 years alone, of their investors money ....and 95 PC plus of their employes are only trained in ICE manufacturing.

    So, it's not just will power. The financial ramifications of moving too fast will be hugely, hugely expensive for them as ICE manufacturers. THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT.

    What would you do tomorrow if you are the CFO of GM or MB or BMW and have many tens of billions stuck in this legacy infrastructure and manufacturing and assembly ? And you - At the same time - are legally obligated to service the hundreds of millions of your ICE cars on the road today , globally.

    It's not just willpower....but also current financials and recently sunk capital. They are steering huge cruise liners and have to make small but long term changes rather than fast, sharp turns for fear ( legitimately ) of just toppling ...financially.

    And, there's also the union agreements, tied to specific plants, in specific cities and countries, with specific hiring commitments in many cases.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Craig9080
    That's just sad to watch now that the 3 has been revealed. It almost reminds me of the Iraqi Information Minister in Baghdad saying something along the lines of "We are pushing them back! They have no chance!" As an M1 rolls past in the background blowing something up.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Rilla
    Very good points. There is so much R&D, branding, physical capital, and human capital invested already for these brands in EV technology. If they focused 100% of their efforts on doing exactly what Tesla is doing for EVs honestly I think BMW/Audi/Mercedes might be able to steamroll Tesla purely due to the sheer amount of resources they have, but it would be extremely costly for them to do so, and extremely risky.

    What they can do is continue to develop their ICEs and driver techologies while devoting more resources to hybrids/EVs over time, in a way that will prevent Tesla from gaining too much market share when EVs inevitably take over.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Rilla
    ^ Sorry, meant to say capital invested in ICE technology.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    MP3Mike
    So what? It isn't approaching the price of a similarly equipped Model S. (Model S goes from $70k-$145k, expect the Model 3 to go from $35k-$90k.)
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Bimbels
    And Audi/VW, in the most precarious position due to their recent scandal - has been the first one to say anything about stepping up.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    tkizzy
    A. My god that Bolt is ugly and tasteless. (And that's ok for some people...tasteless, bland, uninspired people) But at 37,000 before tax credit - compared to the sleek, sexy Model 3 for 35k$ - You're out of your G'Ded mind if you choose that over Model 3. Unless you NEED to have it before model 3... I'm looking to Germany for any eventual serious EV competitors to the 3, not (lol) Chevy. The bolt looks like a $20,000 ICE with a $17,000 premium for it being electric. The 3 looks like a 35,000$ car (or more...it's pretty nice.), that just happens to be an EV.


    People who paid more for a Model X don't expect it to be faster than Model S because tradeoffs, so why do you think Model 3 vs S would be any different?

    If the Model 3 is lighter than the Model S, it has the inherent potential to be faster. No reason to limit that. While the Model S is VERY fast compared to anything, and handles very well for it's size class, it is still a HUGE, HEAVY Full-size luxury Sedan. The Model 3 will be an inherently better track car.

    Before, you bought a Model S because it was THE performance EV. Now you have a choice - Do I want bigger/roomier? Do I want nimbler? And you have a continuum of compromises to choose from:
    3, S ,X -> fastest, faster, fast / smallest, bigger, biggest.

    For comparison - BMW M3 = 4.3 seconds 0-62 (3L,431hp), BMW M5 = 4.4 seconds (4.4L, 560 HP)
    (M3 STARTS AT LIKE 80,000 $ LOL, model 3 will be on par for much much less (0-60).
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Az_Rael
    That was apparently some sort of misinterpretation of what they were projecting demand to be. GM stated its not production limited.

    Chevy Bolt Not Limited To 30,000 Sales A Year
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    S'toon
    Oh, Elon Musk really did tweet
    and
    I smell an Easter Egg.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Jeff N
  • Apr 3, 2016
    McHoffa
    cowbell sounds when doors are open, or for low speed driving to alert pedestrians? :p
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    CuriousG
    That's because he probably got it from this source before the reveal:

    Tesla Model 3 exclusive leaked specs: 0-60 under 4 sec fast and 300+ mile range options (Update: Base 6 sec 0-60 and 215 mile range)

    Doubtful it will be under 4s for standard AWD unless they plan on bumping the speed for the S70D. Spec is 5.2s which is software limited. S70D should be able to do close to S85D's 4.2s since they both use the same drive unit for front and rear. When you get into the P category they have a bigger drive unit in the rear.

    So if the M3 does let's say 5.9s for RWD, it's not going to be faster than S70D with AWD which I suspect is software limited too. It would be reasonable to speculate that the P version of M3 can be under 4s but won't approach Model S territory. I'm sure at that point Tesla will only make the P version on higher capacity batteries which they haven't announced.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    CuriousG
    Model S 70 is 5.5s
    Model S 70D is 5.2s

    So unless they give a free bump to the neutered S70D, it's not happening. I don't have any doubt that M3 AWD can close to 4.6s it's a matter of will they limit it like the S70D.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    bobw
    It's a rock music reference. Every song's better with Moar Cowbell!
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    grommet
  • Apr 3, 2016
    McHoffa
    My guess is base 3 is 5.6 seconds, AWD 3 is 5.1 seconds, P3 is 4.2 seconds, P3D is 3.9 seconds, P3DL is 3.2 seconds.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    ecarfan
    No matter what the country -- and Tesla doesn't sell in India at this time -- the base 3 will not have air suspension. Your statement has no basis in fact or precedent.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    JohnSnowNW
  • Apr 3, 2016
    S'toon
    Incorrect. Tesla sells in India as of Thursday.
    India's entrepreneurs are pre-ordering Tesla's Model 3�even though it could cost twice as much

    Elon Musk Says Tesla's Model 3 Is Coming To India, Know About It

    Tesla unveils its most affordable electric car Model 3; coming to India

    I just booked the Tesla Model 3 in India, Here�s 10 Reasons Why

    Tesla to enter India with the new Model 3
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Lunarx
    Is it confirmed that Tesla intentionally holds back performance?
    Are they not just being responsible towards the max discharge rate the battery can safely handle and recover from?
    Also, don't the faster accelerating cars have higher current motor controllers and wiring?
    Anyone have some facts to share on this?

    A lighter Model 3 should have an advantage in acceleration, so it would be disappointing to hear they held back, just to protect an entry level S70 or any other Model S.

    I was hoping for 3.5 or better, from the performance model (w/o ludicrous).
    That is what we need to keep our favorite brand Chevy from beating us, with their performance models ; )
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    igotzzoom
    Actually, I want the Jetson's car sound for low-speed driving (or all speeds, for that matter!) And an "oogah" horn setting. :D I'm serious. Seems like Tesla could do a licensing agreement with Time Warner (current owner of Hanna Barbera assets).
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    neroden
    Regarding today's tweets from Elon, the Chevy Bolt team does have a lot to worry about. Their car doesn't have any cowbells!
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    CuriousG
    As indicated in this thread

    Pack Swap on 70D to 90kWh HP?

    tl;dr 70D to 90D would provide 14% less power than 90D 4.2s performance. I don't know how that number would translate 0-60.
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  • Apr 3, 2016
    Yggdrasill
    The 70 -> 70D upgrade isn't comparable to what you will see on the Model 3. On the Model 3 you will have something like a 250 hp motor at the rear standard, and then you can fit something like a 200 hp motor at the front for AWD. That works out to 450 hp (80% increase).

    On the RWD 70, you have a 382 hp motor at the rear, and the upgrade to 70D gives you a 259 hp motor at the front and rear, or 518 hp (35% increase.)

    This is of course only talking about motor power, but it still means that the 70/70D isn't relevant.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    CuriousG
    The Model S 70,70D,85,85D,90,90D all use the same drive unit front and rear. It isn't until you delve into P category bigger drive unit comes into play.

    If you believe the numbers that Tesla has on their website (which is debatable):
    70D and 90D is 259HP front and rear with effective cumulative HP @ 328 and 417, respectively.
    P90D 259HP front and 503HP rear effective 463HP and 532HP Ludicrous.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Yggdrasill
    Incorrect.

    There are two rear motor configs, plus two rear inverters, and it works out this way:

    40/60/70/85: high power motor, low power inverter
    70D/85D/90D: low power motor, low power inverter
    P85/P85D/P90D: high power motor, high power inverter
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    ankitmishra
    Tesla has started allowing people to reserve it's cars. It doesn't mean it is selling them. As of now, Tesla doesn't sell cars in India.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    ankitmishra
    Model 3 is an affordable product from a premium car maker. It won't have features that make the flagships unique. IMHO. Model S sales will fall if a less costlier car can go faster than it. Size of car won't stop people from buying 3 instead of S or selling S to buy 3. It will be bad for Tesla.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    CuriousG
    I stand corrected. I was under the assumption the older non-D were high power but the newer models after dual motor was announced were using low power motors for 70 and 85.

    But according to wk057, they all used the same inverters:

    Based on my own analysis all of the small motors and inverters (70D, 85D, 90D, front of P85D/P90D) are all physically the same. All of the large motors and inverters (S40/S60/S85/P85/S90/rear of P85D and P90D) are all physically the same.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    levous
    The Chevy Bolt is a totally different play. The fact that Kevin Kelly, their manager of electrification, specifically said it is "not a compliance car" further convinces me that it is. In order to continue to sell gas guzzling SUVs, some markets require a certain quality of zero emission vehicles to be sold as well. I believe California is one such market. So, Chevy has developed the bolt, based on the advancements made by Tesla and Nissan, to meet this requirement. I have read that they are already selling the cars at a loss.

    While Chevy denies calling production, LG had exclusive contract to provide batteries. They are presently capable of delivering 30k / yr. model3 can't happen without Gigafactory which is why Tesla owns the electric car market and will be as impactful as Apple to our children's lives.

    'Not a compliance car,' GM says 2017 Chevy Bolt can meet demand of over 50,000 per year - HybridCars.com

    I doubt Chevy is concerned about the model3 other than excited to benefit from the advancements it brings to market. Bmw, on the other hand, is certainly needing new underpants.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Seesaw
    I actually think the Model 3 benefits the Bolt. Having the Bolt mentioned in the same media articles as Tesla gives it untold exposure and it legitimises the offering.

    Also all the press and excitement about the new EV from Tesla does rub off a little on the other entrants.

    I can see Bolt getting a bit of a boost with all this publicity and buzz around the Model 3 especially as it's in production now.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Jhsq
    I think he's combining the Electrek scoop

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    Elon's tweet hinting this
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    And the price tweet about the less than 5k$ upgrade (although I think this will get you below 5s, not 4s)

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  • Apr 4, 2016
    ecarfan
    My apologies! I was on vacation out of the US and offline for 6 days prior to the afternoon of April 1st and I completely missed that news. Amazing. One of those articles states, quote "Prior to the reveal, Elon Musk, Tesla founder and CEO said in a tweet that online bookings would commence in countries such as India, Brazil, South Africa, New Zealand, South Korea, Singapore and Ireland."

    That is outstanding. Of course customers in those countries that reserved on the first day that 3 reservations were available still won't get their cars until 2020 at the earliest, and more likely even later, but clearly this means that Tesla will have sales and support networks set up in those countries by then. Which is great news. India and Brazil are massive markets even for a $35K car (though the base price will be higher in those countries due to shipping and exchange rates) and South Korea is a very important market. Singapore is small but wealthy.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    zambono
    Standard air suspension, thats the first time I hear that. I'm fairly certain it will be an option, and hope it is. Air suspension, and other hydraulic variants are known for too many issues. Look at Range Rovers, Lincolns etc...
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    Bimbels
    I didn't take his tweet to mean it was standard. I took it to mean it would be available - and the answer for the bad roads in India. I believe it will be an option like it is on the S/X.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    R.S
    For all that fear the Model 3 might come too close to the Model S, do you really think the Model S won't improve over the coming one and a half years? We have already heard about the planned P100D and i would guess, the base version might also jump in capacity. They will also increase power on those models, since inverters get cheaper and if you look at the motors, they already just have 510hp and 2*260hp options, so I guess even the base versions will approach a 0-60 time of just over 4 seconds, by the time the 3 gets out. The 100D might even be below 4 seconds and we can only imagine how powerful a P100D might be.

    So a cheap but powerful Model 3 won't hurt Model S sales, because it will be even more powerful. The only thing that might hurt S sales would be the newer look of the Model 3, but I guess Tesla will have a solution for that, too.
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  • Apr 4, 2016
    techmaven
    I understand what you are saying, but it still boils down to willpower to disrupt yourself. It's the hardest thing for a successful company to do... like Kodak seeing that film processing chemicals and papers are a dead end, invented digital photography, but yet still unable to figure out how to be successful in the paradigm shift.

    As it stands, it is still about willpower to make the necessary changes.

    What I see from the major automaker EV pioneers - GM, Nissan, and Mitsubishi, is a tepidness around it. They put the EVs into a little box, hoping that they grow slow enough to not disrupt their other lines. It isn't that Nissan or GM didn't want to sell hundreds of thousands of Leafs or Volts in 2011/2012, it's that they still see the EV as a segment to their own, basically competing against the Prius to be the next Prius. As opposed to seeing that the Maxima or the BMW 3 series, the bread and butter vehicles will be electric sooner rather than later. We are still seeing tepidness around putting the Voltec drivetrain in other vehicles.

    Combine this with the problem that they are spending billions in R&D just to compete on ICE powertrains. Plus, most of the management was versed in, matter of fact, the way most of the management was promoted had to do with ICE powertrain development.
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