Thứ Bảy, 4 tháng 2, 2017

Can Non-California residents pick their car up in Fremont? part 1

  • Aug 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Just a simple question. I live in Chicago Il USA.

    Can non-California residents pick their car up in Fremont when the time comes?

    Will it save any money to pick it up?

    These are the details of my trip if I did.


    Fremont California
    Mojave Supercharger
    Primm Supercharger
    St. George Supercharger
    Beaver Supercharger
    Green River Supercharger
    Grand Junction Supercharger
    Silverthorne Supercharger
    Limon Supercharger
    Goodland Supercharger
    Hays Supercharger
    Salina Supercharger
    Topeka Supercharger
    Columbia Supercharger
    Springfield Illinois Supercharger
    Normal Supercharger
    Country Club Hills Supercharger
    Chicago


    Route Direct
    Route Thru Superchargers
    [?IMG]
    Distance 2,258.6 miles
    Driving Time 33:53
    Charging Time 11:13
    Total Trip Time 45:05
    Total Energy Used 745.9 kWh
    2,486 RM
    Average Efficiency 330 Wh/mile
    Net Elevation Change 295 feet
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    ecarfan
    Not sure if by "Frezno" you mean the California city of "Fresno" (where there is a Supercharger but not a Service Center or anyplace to take delivery of a new Tesla) or you mean "Fremont" where the Tesla factory is located and where you could take delivery of your new car.

    My suggestion would be to contact Tesla and ask them your question.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    That is what I meant. Fremont. I can't seem to change the thread title.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Ciaopec
    Sure you can pick it up in Fremont. But you will pay California taxes and not sure what IL will charge when you return. That was my original plan to speed the process and try out a cross county trip but the cost was too dear.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Great info. California charges tax no matter what?
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Ciaopec
    There is at least one other thread/post/something covering this, I think. I also called my sales guy and he told me the same thing. I've been trying to find the post and if I do I will provide link. I was even trying to cut delivery time by flying to Chicago, where I used to live, but paperwork and taxes also killed that idea. In the end, I suffered the long (though not as long as the early adopters)wait in Ohio.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Ciaopec
  • Aug 6, 2016
    hockeythug
    You are in the same boat as me. Illinois will give you credit for what you paid California but won't refund you the difference.
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    That's good information to know though. That's fantastic.
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    Booga
    Seems like the delivery fee can't be waived, but I would be happy to go to the factory if they could and wouldn't charge me California sales tax. I can't think of a better way to really enjoy autopilot than a cross country road trip as soon as I get the car with the supercharger and destination charging networks.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I was thinking the exact same thing.

    Maybe we can get a caravan going from California headed east.
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    NikeWings
    We need your tax dollars to sustain our errant government spending.
    Please consider relocating here permanently and helping out.....the weather is awesome for driving with the pano open 24x7.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Tiberius
    How are the details of this hypothetical trip relevant to the question?

    Sounds like how my wife would have asked, lol.
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    brucet999
    �
  • Aug 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I was wondering about that. Does the Pano open?
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    NikeWings
    Yep, every day! :cool: I don't have any close ups, but if you zoom you can get a feel for it.

    007.JPG
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Very nice....I was wondering about the M3 though. I assume its going to open the same way.
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    NikeWings
    Or maybe you'll have a rag top! If there is an option, you are probably right but I haven't seen anything yet. That 3 is a great looking car!
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    raysspl
    Epic picture with all those boats!
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  • Aug 6, 2016
    NikeWings
    Its the parking lot of the local library and every time I stop by I think, it must be the prettiest little library branch ever.
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  • Aug 7, 2016
    Jason Bourne
    I had the same idea: to pick up at the factory and drive back to Philly. But there are 3 big IFs that have to play correctly to work out:
    1 - CA not charge sales tax to non-residents
    2 - I would get my car a few months earlier than if I waited for delivery locally
    3 - if Tesla offers free 30 trial of Supercharger access, since I don't plan to purchase lifetime SC access
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  • Aug 7, 2016
    linkster
    4 - if Tesla waived the shipping fee
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  • Aug 8, 2016
    dsvick
    #1 might still happen, it could always be reintroduced next year.
    #2 probably wouldn't happen. The reason deliveries closer to the factory are prioritized is because it makes for a faster turn-around on finding and correcting problems and incorporating them into production. It might shave a couple of weeks off of your normal delivery since they wont have to ship it to you.
    #3 not a clue :)

    They wont do this, the delivery charge is the same for all vehicles regardless of where you pick it up.
    �
  • Aug 8, 2016
    Jason Bourne
    Reasonable guesses. I think there is hope for #1. Number 2 is possible, because if there has been substantial deliveries in my home area by the time my car is ready, they will have already developed the infrastructure, service centers and training necessary to correct problems. I predict my preferred config will be somewhat middle of the road in terms of 'loadedness'/price. I think #3 is the least likely. I think buyers generally know pretty easily if they want to buy SC access. A trial period seems unlikely to me to influence more to purchase it.
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  • Aug 8, 2016
    Model 3
    Agree - but what is still possible is that they may have more then one "supercharger package".
    SuC #1. Free for life (just like today)
    SuC #2 Free for a limited time period and/or a limited times charging and/or limited time at the charger.
    SuC #3 Access but pay-as-you-go

    I think a "one (or two) month free use" would be a popular package for people that will only use the car locally - except for the "once a year" (or rarer) long trip.

    Ps: I do not predict that this is what they will do, just say that this is an possibility.
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  • Aug 8, 2016
    Jason Bourne
    If all else worked out, I would be very inclined to purchase a limited use SC package (limited either by number of uses or unlimited uses in a finite timeframe) just so I could have an amazing cross-country drive to bring it home.
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  • Aug 8, 2016
    ZAKEEUS
    I think #2 and #4 could work together. Picking up in Fremont won't get an East coaster in line with someone from the west coast, but it would make financial sense for Tesla to give those people priority. That would help quarterly deliveries and they get to pocket the delivery fee without paying for shipping. I think once Tesla begins delivering in a region anyone from that region should be allowed the option to pick up.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    22522
    What about Nevada? Max sales tax is $1000?
    Sales tax on cars and vehicles in Nevada

    For someone in Texas, just pay the difference in sales tax when you get home.
    Use: Texas residents � 6 1/4 % (.0625) of sales price, less credit for sales or use taxes paid to other states, when bringing a motor vehicle into Texas that was purchased in another state.
    Motor Vehicle Sales and Use Tax

    This would let Tesla store cars at the giga factory releasing them in the quarter after crossing the tax credit threshold.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    The problem for me is that my stated charges less than California in taxes and will not provide a refund.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    Mark C
    Since they will still be collecting the delivery charges, "free" use of the Supercharger network for a limited time so people could drive their new purchase home would serve two purposes. First, they collected the shipping charges and didn't have to pay to ship a vehicle {+1 for Tesla} and secondly, it could be that after tasting the Supercharger access, some percentage of people who did not sign up for Supercharger use might decide to go ahead and purchase it {another +1 for Tesla}.

    I read one of David Nolans article telling us his loaner Tesla was a top of the line model while his S 60 was being worked on. Offering someone a small taste of what they could have for a bit more money may help influence their next purchase.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    el crucero
    [QUOTE="dsvick, post: 1668959, member: 49130"
    They wont do this, the delivery charge is the same for all vehicles regardless of where you pick it up.[/QUOTE]

    According to my local Tesla sales rep, the option of waiving or reducing the delivery charge with factory pick up is being discussed for the model 3 only. Otherwise, California residents are subsidizing out of State buyers with a flat delivery charge. Nothing has been decided at this point and won't be for a long time.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    dsvick
    And people in Detroit have been subsidizing everyone else for years.

    While there is no rule that says they have to, I'd still be pretty surprised if Tesla changed the way they do that. I think it would make a lot of people angry. If it ended up causing more people to pick their cars up at the factory, TM would lose volume discounts and that would only further drive up the cost of delivering cars to people who didn't. Eventually it would become prohibitively expensive to do anything but pick up your car at the factory. Then there are all the delivery specialists at all the stores that would be out of a job.

    Also, saving a thousand dollars in delivery fees only to pay several times that in CA sales tax doesn't make a lot of sense either.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    PeterK
    A video of one of the test drives from the reveal had a chief engineer stating that the Model 3 will have glass, openable glass and metal roof options.

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  • Aug 9, 2016
    NikeWings
  • Aug 9, 2016
    el crucero
  • Aug 9, 2016
    dsvick
  • Aug 9, 2016
    Jason Bourne
    Hopefully one day, Tesla semi trucks will be delivering Tesla cars, and the delivery fee will be even lower.
    �
  • Aug 9, 2016
    NikeWings
    And it also has to be applied consistently to all geographies, without preferential treatment. So a potentially reduced M3 fee would apply to CA as well as anywhere else.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    FirstSea
    I live in CA, I pre-ordered in CA, but I might live in TX by the time the car comes out. I wonder what I'll have to go through to get this car home.
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  • Aug 9, 2016
    NikeWings
    It will be based only on the delivery/title address which you don't need to solidify (title/address/payment method) until after the VIN is assigned, which I recall have several weeks to lock it down. BTW, Texas dealer law is funky and requires your Tesla (non dealer) to be paid in full (whether cash/lease/loan) before the car is allowed to cross state line. Just a heads up when planning the application/approval time, whenever that may be. Tesla will handle all the messy admin for you, but your payment is needed a few weeks prior to most.
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    smak
    How do we know we can pick up a Model III at the factory?

    They're going to sell a lot more of them than the Model S. Maybe they just won't have the manpower to do it?

    how does it work now, do you make an appointment at an exact time and date?

    I was thinking about picking mine up, not to save any money, just for the fun of driving it back home.

    -smak-
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    22522
    The Tesla delivery mechanisms will be crushed by the volume. Factory delivery reduces the burden, makes the car an event (promoting brand loyalty while likely improving net promoter behavior) and allows for better control, and improvement of the process.

    There are reasons to go the other way, but Tesla has to pay the people and the freight until you take ownership. If you get it at the factory, costs will be lower.

    There are lots of good reasons to stage this at the giga factory.
    1) Sales tax limited to $950 in Nevada.
    2) More space, customers will not feel as rushed.
    3) Easier to manage the edge of the incentives - grace period after 200K threshold is met.
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    JeffK
    The reason I'm not considering this is that I want to get the paint protected as soon as possible. I'm afraid a cross country trip might result in rock chips. You live in CA so it's only a small distance relatively speaking.
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    JeffK
    Not really, you'd be paying CA taxes. Delivery cost is not terrible because they batch ship the cars to the destination service centers. Basically, yes Tesla costs might be slightly lower if you pick up the car, but your price might be higher (and possibly significantly so).
    �
  • Aug 11, 2016
    dsvick
    Factory delivery doesn't reduce the burden it just moves it from the stores to the factory. The only part of the delivery process that could be overwhelmed would be the actual delivery specialists. The transportation network is the same as is used by all the other automakers so there would be no issues handling a few hundred thousand more. It would be a small fraction of their current volume. On the other hand, trying to do too many deliveries at the factory would certainly create a bottle neck than if you'd spread them out by sending them to the stores.

    The gigafactory is another option, but would be limited in the same way, only now you have to ship them all there from Freemont first. I don't think the "more space" arguement is valid though. Yes, it's going to be a huge building but all of the space has a planned function. Manageing the number of vehicles delivered is only possible if they store them and don't deliver them. They wont have acres of indoor storage sitting there unused, and if they do it will only be for a short while. And I don't want my new car stored outside in the Nevada desert for any length of time before I pick it up either. The more likely option for trying to maximize the number of people that will qualify for the tax credit would be to shift deliveries outside of the US for a time.
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    dsvick
    Exactly right! Tesla's costs would certainly be lower, but the delivery cost to the consumer would be the same. Eventually, if enough people used factory pickup it might make enough of a difference that the average delivery cost could be lowered but it wouldn't be by much and it would take a while for them to determine that.

    And the extra several thousand dollars in CA sales tax, not to mention all the cost associated with getting there, staying for a day or two, and then driving home (possibly across the country in some cases) makes it particularly prohibitive. Unless you're treating it as a vacation, in which case - go for it!
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    ex-bimmer
    So what happens to international orders?
    As a Canadian I'd love to do a factory delivery but not if I have to pay CA taxes.

    And more optimistically, what happens if the car drives itself to my door? :)
    Ref: "Mind Blowing AP 2.0" Autopilot 2.0
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    RedModel3
    A lot can change between now and delivery. My bet is on California renewing the tax-free status of vacationers who want to pick up at the factory.
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  • Aug 11, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I can't imagine why they would do that. California government rarely does things based on anything but themselves.
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  • Aug 13, 2016
    melindav
    it's not a renewal - the out-of-state tax exemption never happened in the first place.
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  • Aug 13, 2016
    Skione65
    @melindav,

    I know.....defeat of that bill was a complete travesty. The change came out of nowhere....horrible for those that wanted to try and 'fly in-drive out' with their 3.

    Ski
    �
  • Aug 13, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    So wait. Is the bill "currently" defeated? Will California "charge" taxes as of right now?
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  • Aug 13, 2016
    bonnie
    Yes, the bill was defeated. California's position on taxing vehicles delivered in California remains the same as always: You pay California tax if you take delivery in California.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Thanks. That's horrible for me because Illinois taxes are lower....and they won't give any money back for paying a California taxes.

    So it would be cheaper for me to wait for it to be shipped to Illinois.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    melindav
    most all areas in the US have a lower sales tax than CA, so it's not just you.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    NikeWings
    Yep, hardly loving our 9.5% sales tax and drooling over your tax rates, rebates, credits and what-nots. I did get an HOV pass for $22 which I thought was a bargain (although up from $8 last year).

    I hope things change so many of you can pick up in Fremont, its an amazing operation. But if you plan to have paint protection added, it might be best to await shipment.
    �
  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Yeah, I suppose you are right.
    �
  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Why is that? Why wait for paint protection?
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    NikeWings
    So its smooth as a baby's bum.
    Otherwise, you'll be paying to restore blemishes/chips etc and then applying the coating of choice. Most owners drop their cars off to be protected straight from the delivery day ritual, further delaying gratification by a couple/few days.
    �
  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    So cars from Fremont don't emerge complete? That would be extremely strange.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    NikeWings
    Oh no they are very complete. Lovely complete.
    I am referencing added paint protection such as Xpel or other similar variants.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Oh ok. I'm getting my car wrapped as soon as I can. That's already a done deal.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    NikeWings
    Yep exactly. So would you really want to drive it 1200 miles across the dust bowl before hand?
    Hey are you wrapping with the same color or different? I've seen some amazing color wraps at SCs. Some of these guys claim to re wrap every year with a different color.
    �
  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Yes. Same color. If I pick it up in Fremont....I'm getting it wrapped around Fremont. However it might be a non-issue because of the stupid California Taxes.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    NikeWings
    Ahhhh got it. You'll have plenty of excellent recommendations, if Sacramento cooperates.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Whats going on in Sacramento?
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    NikeWings
    Sorry, I should be more clear. That's our capital city and home of our State Assembly (legislative body). They squashed the effort and they'll need to resurrect it and vote on it. Those "stupid california taxes" come from their great ideas.
    �
  • Aug 15, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Gotcha.....I understand now.
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  • Aug 15, 2016
    Akikiki
    We can't avoid paying the destination charge anyway. So why don't people that want to go to the West Coast to get their car and drive home, why not take delivery close to CA like AZ or NV or OR?

    A friend of mine lives in Hawaii and wanted to drive across country, so he took delivery in Portland. He even drove back to So Cal to attend TMC Live (last year) right after getting his car.
    �
  • Aug 16, 2016
    dsvick
    While some of those palces would be cool, for me, half the fun of a factory pickup would be a factory tour and knowing you're getting car literally, right at the end of the assembly line. Going to another store to pick it up, while fun, would be pretty much the same as picking it up at my local store.
    �
  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Does Tesla allow people to just pick any state you want for delivery?
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    Akikiki
    @Garlan, why not? Why would you think they would not. dsvick said he would like to take the tour. That's doable. Just pick it up in AZ or NV then drive back. Part of the thrill is the drive home from the West Coast. You can't stop CA from collecting the tax if you pick up there. If you are not a resident of CA, then take the steps to avoid the tax. Pick your car up outside CA. Don't let them spoil your fun. Side step them.
    �
  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I really hope that option is available. I can't imagine that it wouldn't present a problem to Tesla. I'm certainly going to ask Tesla.
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    NikeWings
    Worth asking Tesla. I thought someone posted here yesterday that they or their friend did just that. They picked up in AZ or NV and then drove home elsewhere, but I can't find it today. ???
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    I just called Tesla and they indicated that I can pick up ANY tesla at ANY Tesla delivery center ( which are basically their stores )..

    He told me I could find those stores on the Tesla website by clicking Find Us on the right hand top of the web page. Looks like I might be going to Nevada to pick it up. I wonder what Nevada Tax Laws are like.

    Anyone here from Nevada that could shed some light on the subject?
    �
  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    This is what I know so far about buying a car in Nevada.

    Nevada collects a 8.1% state sales tax rate on the purchase of all vehicles. Some dealerships may also charge a 149 dollar documentary fee. The maximum tax that can be charged is 950 dollars..
    $60K car = $4860.00



    This is what I know so far about buying a car in Illinois

    The rate is 6.25% of the purchase price or fair market value, whichever is greater. If you acquire the aircraft by purchase from a person or business that is not in the business of selling aircraft at retail, you must pay tax on the aircraft's purchase price.
    $60K car = $3750.00

    WOW a thousand dollars more!!!!!
    �
  • Aug 16, 2016
    NikeWings
    So where would Tesla register the car in order to have temp tag at delivery - Nevada? Or Illinois?
    $950 is a bargain, especially if full purchase.
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Good question: Let me investigate.

    Did you see that the total cost is a thousand dollars more picking it up in Nevada rather than Illinois?
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    NikeWings
    That's says aircraft. Does Illinois lump Teslas and aircrafts together?
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    One of the first things I read from Nevada's Vehicles registration website is that ANY car purchased in Nevada must comply with Nevada's vehicle emissions standards. LOL
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    NikeWings
    You might need to keep some Hamilton's handy. LOL
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    They might as well....since Teslas and aircraft takeoff speed is similar.

    Answer: Aircraft and Vehicle purchases are synonymous as far as registration is concerned.
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Let me ask you this NikeWings.... you wouldn't save any money picking your car up in Nevada since you are a California resident .....would you?
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    NikeWings
    Yes, I would save money but I'd need to register it in NV, else CA would hit me full throttle when I brought the car into CA.
    No escaping anything here.
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  • Aug 16, 2016
    Akikiki
    I live in Hawaii. I bought a used Tacoma from a Toyota dealer in WA ( a few years ago). They waived the sales tax because I was not a WA resident. How did I prove that I was not a WA resident? I provided two recent Utility bills from Hawaii for their review. That's all it took to satisfy their concern.

    While CA collects sales tax even on non-residents, most states will waive the sales tax when you provide proof you are not a resident. They know you are going to have to pay it when you go to register the car for tags.

    Before Tesla Honolulu had their dealer license, we owners had to navigate the tax payment and registration process individually. We mapped the process for those coming after us. The car arrived, we collected Bill of Lading, Title, Safety Inspection and went to Dept of Taxation and paid our excise tax, then with that receipt we could proceed to DMV for the registration. As an owner, we had to show we have paid the excise tax before DMV would allow us to register the car.
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  • Aug 17, 2016
    djplong
    They'd just LOVE me.. Living in New Hampshire, we don't have sales tax.
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  • Aug 17, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    How about Oregon? They have no sales tax.
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  • Aug 19, 2016
    dsvick
    Hmm, driving home to Ohio from up there would be pretty scenic too, maybe I'll take delivery there instead.
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  • Aug 19, 2016
    Garlan Garner
    Hey dsvick.....maybe we can get an east coast M3 train moving across the country. 10 -20 people driving their M3's across the country. That would be cool.

    No wait - that's a horrible idea. There would not enough SC's at each location for all of us.
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