Jul 26, 2014
LaJolla Greetings. I have searched everywhere for a good answer to this problem but haven't found one, and I hope someone can help.
I was well aware of the design flaw in the frunk when I purchased the Model S, and as a result I almost never used the frunk -- and when I did, I was careful to use the approved closing procedure suggested by other members of this Forum.
Unfortunately, when I took my Model S in for service, someone at the service center wasn't so careful, and now I have the dreaded frunk crease, or dent, near the front of the hood. The service center referred me to their preferred dent repair vendor, but he said that this issue cannot be repaired without a full, and expensive, body shop visit for the entire hood. Does anyone know of someone who has successfully removed such a dent without repainting the entire hood?
Thank you!�
Jul 26, 2014
Dart Did the SC admit that it happened during its care? If so, I'd expect the SC to pay for a proper repair.�
Jul 26, 2014
green1 If it truly did happen while at the SC, I'd be taking it as high up the Tesla chain as was necessary to get them to make it right!�
Jul 26, 2014
LaJolla I have not yet raised the issue of responsibility with the service center because I am first hoping to assess my repair options. Unfortunately there just isn't much reliable information online about whether a repair is possible using traditional ding-removal methods.
There is, however, plenty of information -- unfortunately for Tesla -- about how many people have had their Model S's damaged because one of the most basic functions of a car -- the ability to open and close the hood -- cannot be performed without special instructions and training. It is hard to believe that Tesla has never addressed this design flaw, despite complaints dating back to the very start of this Forum.�
Jul 26, 2014
green1 I think you're going about this all wrong. Talk to the SC first, if they accept responsibility there's no need for you to scope out shops etc, it becomes their problem entirely. It sounds like you're just making more work for yourself by trying to find your own repair options when you believe the SC to be at fault.
As for the design. I agree, it's incomprehensible how such a basic thing has been left unfixed for so long.�
Jul 26, 2014
Merrill If it was done while in for service, they need to fix it. Have you brought it to there attention yet, if not do not wait to let them know about it. Did you call them as soon as you noticed it after the service.�
Jul 26, 2014
LaJolla Thank you for the advice. I will raise the issue with the service center on Monday.
But I am still interested in learning from others what the repair options are. My vehicle is brand new, and if this has happened already, then it is likely to happen again at some point, say, from a careless valet who mistakenly opens the frunk by pressing the fob in the wrong place and then does not have the special training necessary to close the frunk properly. And if my only option is to get the entire hood repaired and repainted every time, well, then that's probably something I am not going to want to deal with. Hence my desire to learn more about how others have had this problem repaired. Thanks again to all of you for your help.�
Jul 26, 2014
Lloyd You can repair it with matching and blending. The entire hood does not need to be repainted.�
Jul 26, 2014
green1 There was talk in other threads about paintless dent repair, though it sounded like results were mixed with some guys saying it couldn't be done due to location.�
Jul 26, 2014
Merrill Can you post a picture of the crease?�
Jul 26, 2014
MiddKid Read this thread...I started it and toward the end you'll see that I had a relatively successful (I'd say 90%) dent repair done. Took less than an hour. No paint issues at all...
Frunk Dent (Frustrating...)
�
Jul 26, 2014
markb1 I would bet that the service center will just take care if it, without any argument. Every time I've been to the San Diego service center, they do a walk around to document any damage before they touch the car. If they didn't note a crease in the hood, I'm sure they will take responsibility.�
Jul 27, 2014
LaJolla Thanks again to all of you for your advice. In response to the request for photos, here are some -- which unfortunately will serve as a preview for many future buyers who will pay six figures for a Tesla only to find that if the frunk is not closed by someone with special training, their vehicle is going to look like this:
�
Jul 27, 2014
DJung I heard on the forums that the newer cars coming off of the assembly line had added reinforcements to the frunk. Did it not solve the frunk crease problem?�
Jul 27, 2014
LaJolla Ah, if only the rumors of a fix were true.
My vehicle is brand new, but as I went through the buying process I mistakenly assumed that all of these rumors about improved quality were true. Unfortunately not.
The frunk crease issue has been around from day one and is still impacting many owners. Not to mention the other battery failure (see teslerati.com's most recent posts) or drive failure (see the travails of the Edmunds.com editors) issues.
This is a great car in theory, and when it works, but not so much when every time a valet or service center employee closes the frunk without proper training, you are left with a marred. $100,000 vehicle. It's astonishing that smart people of means put up with this kind of thing (and I admit that I am saying this in unfortunate hindsight -- I should have listened to the warnings on this Forum before I purchased. Live and learn.)�
Jul 27, 2014
Gizmotoy There may be improvements. The manual was updated last month to completely change the recommended placement for your hands when closing the trunk. Perhaps the added reinforcement is in that area (the area in your pictures are the new red "Do not push" zone).
I'm also extremely careful and found mine damaged recently. I rarely use the frunk out of fear, and I have no idea when it happened. As a general thought, I find it absurd that you need special training to close the frunk, and that the former practice recommended by the factory was apparently so likely to cause damage they completely changed the frunk closing process.�
Jul 27, 2014
markb1 They tried to address this by putting some sort of orange foam inside the hood, but it seems to have caused another problem. (Orange goo leaking out in warm weather.). At least, it was rumored that the foam was there to reinforce the hood.�
Jul 27, 2014
LaJolla Gizmotoy, thank you for your thoughtful response.
May I ask, have you considered having your crease fixed?
Every Tesla-recommended dent repair specialist I have contacted this weekend (including in major Tesla markets such as Los Angeles and the San Francisco Bay Area, along with my home market in San Diego) has said the same things: (1) The crease is an extremely common problem among owners, and (2) there is no sure fix except for redoing the entire hood. Some repairers report making the problem worse by applying their traditional dent repair methods.
So, the more I've worked on this, the more concerned I've become. How can Tesla market this kind of thing and then not accept some sort of responsibility? People rave about the Tesla service experience when flatbed trucks turn up after a battery failure, or drive failure, or mysterious on-freeway shutdown, or failure of the 21-inch tires and rims (all of which have been amply documented on this Forum), but what about the fact that you can't close the frunk without damaging your car without special training -- training instructions that themselves have been inconsistent and that have been altered over time?
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks, Markb1, for the information. The orange foam didn't prevent my crease, unfortunately, but at least it hasn't burst free like a modern day version of The Blob -- as photos elsewhere on this Forum show has happened to others. But I guess that gives me yet another "$100,000-vehicle-problem-that-I-never-expected" problem to look forward to!�
Jul 27, 2014
Gizmotoy I only noticed it about a week ago, so I haven't considered much of anything at this point. I contacted my SC to have them pass along my displeasure about the issue, but I haven't heard anything back.
To be fair, I don't have a crease. It's more like a ripple in the sheetmetal visible from the side. Head-on you don't even notice it's there. Compared to some of the other members who have posted about this issue, I got off easy with relatively minor damage.
I suspect the lack of a crease would make me a good candidate for paintless repair by someone familiar with working on aluminum, but I'm not sure. I was going to give the SC a few more days to respond and check back in. If painting is the only option, I'll likely leave it alone.�
Jul 27, 2014
Zarwin Thanks, I was not aware this had been changed. My Model S is just over 3 months old and does have a very light crease just off center. As soon as I noticed it, I started closing by pressing down closer to the corners, close to where the new guidance shows, and nothing has happened since. Is it ok to show an image from the manual since the entire pdf is accessible elsewhere in this forum? I just cropped the image out of the new manual and would post it for anyone curios, but don't know if that is allowed.�
Jul 27, 2014
Gizmotoy No real need. Someone already has:
Frunk Dent (Frustrating...) - Page 7�
Jul 27, 2014
Merrill Not everyone has had a frunk problem, I have had my car for over 1 year and never a problem, make Tesla take car of it for you!!!! Every vehicle you could purchase could have a problem, I find it difficult to believe that this problem would change your decision to buy.�
Jul 27, 2014
LaJolla Merrill, thanks for your response. I am happy that you have not experienced this problem, and of course I realize that not every single owner has experienced it. But if the evidence on this Forum and others is to be believed, hundreds and hundreds of people have discovered that, despite paying approximately $100,000 for a car, they (along with valets and repair people) cannot open and close their hood without creasing the hood. And Tesla, according to those who have complained repeatedly, has disclaimed any responsibility for this issue and refused to pay for any repairs. So your advice that I should "make Tesla take car (sic) of it for you!!!" is, despite the multiple exclamation points, not likely to be very helpful.�
Jul 27, 2014
techMology +1 on all your points. I now have the frunk crease and I have no real idea how it got there. I too have always followed the approved procedure.
It may have even happened while it was in at Tesla for unrelated reasons. I have no way of proving anything or really knowing how or when it happened.
This really shouldn't happen on a $100.000 car, and Tesla should be fixing this gratis, IMO.
Closing a hood or trunk shouldn't cause such damage. Clearly a design issue.�
Jul 28, 2014
phat78boy I agree as well. I would go a step further and say this shouldn't happen on a 20K car either. I certainly hope they get this worked out
- - - Updated - - -
Definitely a design issue. They should have worked out an automatic closing system for such a fragile hood.�
Jul 28, 2014
AmpedRealtor This thread and the other one referenced here were both started in 2014. The other thread in May, this one just a few days ago. I took delivery in 2013 and have had no issues. I wonder if something changed in manufacturing this year that could be causing problems?�
Jul 28, 2014
Gizmotoy There were complaints about this going back at least into the middle of last year. I was aware this was an well before I put my deposit down back in 9/2013. At some point around that time they supposedly added more metal to the leading edge of the hood to assist in closing the old way that's now specifically cautioned against.
So I don't really think it's a new issue.�
Jul 28, 2014
LaJolla Thanks to everyone for your help. I just got back from the Tesla-authorized body shop. Bad news: They say they've seen many, many of these same frunk issues with Teslas and that it is generally not possible to repair the creases with traditional dent removal techniques. (The dent removal guy recommended by Tesla told me the same thing over the weekend.). So the only option is to take off the hood, repair, and repaint. I am waiting for an estimate now and will let you know what it is. In the meantime, though, I am wondering: If this is happening to so many owners, and it happened to me with a brand new vehicle, what is the point in getting it fixed since chances are it will happen again, necessitating yet another repair? When I discussed this question with the body shop manager, he shrugged his shoulders. I guess Tesla's design flaw is good news for auto body shops but bad news for those of us who got suckered into this vehicle.�
Jul 28, 2014
Gizmotoy I don't think I'd go that far. It's a relatively minor issue with an otherwise great car, but it is a bit frustrating that 1) We're coming up on 2 years since vehicle launch and this is still an issue, and 2) Tesla isn't helping owners with this issue. That said, you could be sure if (2) wasn't the case, neither would (1). As long as owners are paying the repair costs there's no real incentive for Tesla to fix the issue, and is probably why it's lingered so long. They can concentrate their efforts on other matters for which they will be held responsible. I don't blame them, but it is a crappy situation.�
Jul 28, 2014
LaJolla Gizmotoy, you are absolutely right that I should not speak for others when using the word "suckered" into buying this vehicle. For me, though, I know that if the Tesla representative had said when I walked into the store that "there is a pretty good chance that sometime relatively soon after you pay $120,000 for this vehicle, the hood will have a crease in it through no fault of your own," well, I would have not purchased the car. I understand that others may feel differently and respect that. For me, though, there are just too many super-nice vehicles out there in the $120,000 price range to put up with this.�
Jul 28, 2014
MikeInFL I have the same crease. Tried 2 different paintless dent companies... Same result. There's not enough access. That crease is basically where the top of the hood is mated with the underside, thus having ZERO space and making the hood need a professional repair from a reputable body shop.�
Jul 28, 2014
LaJolla MikeInFl, thanks for your help. The advice you received is identical to what I have received so far. I am waiting now on the repair estimate. Have you ever gotten an estimate from a qualified body shop for this fix?�
Jul 28, 2014
phat78boy My last quote was $2300. They told me they would have to repaint in order to make it seamless. I know others have had luck with dent repair specialists, but I have not had the chance to consult with one yet.�
Jul 28, 2014
NigelM So are Tesla taking care of this for you or not? Service Centers do a documented wear and tear (damage) inspection whenever they take a car in.�
Jul 28, 2014
LaJolla NigelM, in answer to your question, the Service Center's intake records do not show any damage to the hood. Unfortunately, I cannot positively prove that the damage happened during servicing because I did not notice the damage before I left the Center. And although I did not open the frunk after my Service Center visit, and no one else did either, I of course can't prove the negative here.
The fact is that I would swallow the large repair bill myself if I knew I could return my new car to its pristine condition for any length of time. Unfortunately that's not the case. If the frunk was damaged this easily, and so soon in the young life of the car, there's a strong likelihood that it will be damaged again when closed by someone, such as a valet, who is not the recipient of Tesla's special frunk closing training. So, the idea of having to pay more than $2,000 each time to repair and repaint part of the hood is just not something I am in for.�
Jul 28, 2014
cstromme Tesla really needs to add some kind of soft close mechanism to the frunk. Denting aside, the paint can so easily be scratched when it's dirty and people put their hands down on it and apply pressure.�
Jul 29, 2014
Brass Guy LaJolla - If you still have not opened it, you may be able to "prove the negative." It's probably in the car's logs. I remember a thread about a fuse...
After very close scrutiny yesterday, I was able to notice a very slight anomaly in the reflection on mine. It does not look like the photo here though. It is a long line about 1" from and parallel to the leading edge, and I probably cannot capture it in a photo without elaborate setup. I will not stop using my front trunk though, usually the French horn goes there; and sometimes groceries since I back into the garage.
Gizmotoy - thanks for the thread link. I tried pressing the new areas to close it, but the aluminum feels thin there and does flex quite a bit. I may try near the corners as uncovered in that thread and see how if feels.
Tesla engineering should be working on this, this is not a one-off. Also you should be able to close anything with one hand. It's often a bad idea to put on the ground what I've stowed there so just I can close it. Especially if its raining.�
Jul 29, 2014
LaJolla Brass Guy, thank you for making the great suggestion about possibly using the car's fuse records or other logs to demonstrate when the frunk was opened. Tesla did not suggest this option for me, but I will begin to explore it immediately. Thanks again!�
Jul 29, 2014
Gizmotoy I wouldn't get my hopes up too high. I doubt Tesla (or any company) would be interested using their own data to incriminate themselves.
I tried it once, and it does feel impressively fragile there. I get the impression you can cause a whole new type of frunk crease by pushing in the recommended spots, probably along the vertical supports that run front-to-back on the hood. The hood indents a substantial amount when closing in the new recommended way.�
Jul 29, 2014
LaJolla Good point, Gizmotoy. I have no great hopes that Tesla will use its own log information to help prove what happened.
In any event, this morning I showed the frunk crease to two of my business associates -- one who was about to order a Model S this weekend, the other who has a Model X on order -- and they were both appalled at the fact that Tesla has allowed this kind of fundamental design flaw to persist throughout the life of the Model S. Both said that they were going to forego their plans to buy a Tesla for now. (The potential Model X buyer was having some hesitation already, having read the Edmunds.com wrap up review which highlighted the repeated drive unit replacements and other quality control issues.)�
Jul 29, 2014
dsm363 Why would a valet ever need to get into the frunk?�
Jul 29, 2014
HillCountryFun Lajolla, I recommend you describe your situation to:
JEROME GUILLEN
Please forgive me if you did this already and I missed it in this thread.
VICE PRESIDENT, WORLD WIDE SALES AND SERVICE
Jerome is outstanding and he will get to the root cause of the issue as well as making sure you receive satisfaction. I'm sorry I don't have his email/written address.
Good luck!!�
Jul 29, 2014
liuping I would not think they need to be in there either. Hopefully 6.0 will include valet mode which should prevent access to the frunk and glove box, as well as lock out setting changes and limit speed.
I really just don't trust Valets. I use them as little as possible.�
Jul 29, 2014
LaJolla dsm363, in answer to your question about why a valet would open the frunk, I will repeat to you what the Tesla-authorized body shop expert told me yesterday: He has seen a large number of Tesla frunk creases in his market area, and many were caused by a valet mistakenly pressing the front of the fob rather than the roof of the fob when opening or locking the car -- resulting in the inadvertent opening of the frunk.
The Tesla body shop expert told me that, unless I was prepared to ensure that no one else ever closed the frunk in the future, my $2,000-plus repair to the frunk this time is likely to be wasted since, chances are, the crease will recur in the future when someone without knowledge of the Tesla specialized frunk-closing training closes the frunk.
Again, not to belabor the point, but this is a $120,000 vehicle with a fundamental design flaw that has apparently existed from Day One and that no one has bothered to address -- despite the fact that the flaw has marred the vehicles of hundreds and hundreds of owners.
- - - Updated - - -
Thanks so much, HillCountryFun. I really appreciate your thoughtful suggestion. I will track down Mr. Guillen's contact information and respectfully present the situation to him. Thank you again for the suggestion.�
Jul 29, 2014
liuping That totally makes sense. I did not think about accidental button presses.�
Jul 29, 2014
Beckler This is pretty ridiculous to be sure. It really has to be a very simple problem to solve; why isn't it just fixed? I guess even the greatest companies just can't get things done sometimes, though I do assume they are extraordinarily busy right now.�
Jul 29, 2014
Gizmotoy Presumably any real fix will require stamping changes involving what is likely to be substantial retooling cost, especially for a part of this size.
It should be fixed, but it's certainly not a cheap/easy fix.�
Jul 29, 2014
AmpedRealtor To be fair, though, how many "relatively minor issues" are owners going to have to tolerate before becoming disillusioned with such a major purchase? Every time someone discusses an issue with the car, others quickly point out how minor it is. Death by a thousand cuts is still no fun. A frunk hood is basic. Engine hoods have been manufactured for 100 years. Yet somehow Tesla managed to screw theirs up. The fact that Tesla hasn't stepped up to address this issue - which is all over the place, so not isolated - tells me that it would be cost prohibitive for Tesla to do so. In other words, count on requiring a full hood replacement.
Should closing the front hood require a replacement after every X number of closings? That's a pretty obvious (and lame) design issue that Tesla should address. While I have not experienced this issue, knock wood, I am sympathetic to those who have. I find Tesla's response to this issue sorely lacking.
LaJolla, you should send your thoughts up the chain to Jerome Guillen and see if you can find some resolution - not just for yourself, but everyone else. You can also tweet Elon Musk on Twitter, which I hope Elon would find an embarrassment to see in his Twitter feed. So far, however, I have not heard of anyone taking the proper steps to escalate the issue to a level where it will get executive attention.�
Jul 29, 2014
Gizmotoy I agree on pretty much all points. However, as noted, while my frunk is damaged, but I don't think I've been "suckered into" the purchase. That implies some amount of deception, which is all I was disagreeing with.
I'm about as pro "fix this stupid issue" as you can get, and it's absolutely embarrassing to insist on closing the frunk myself with other people around because they'll likely damage it without frunk closing training. And then despite that care, find myself likely damaging it anyway. Not acceptable, and I've formally written Tesla as such myself.�
Jul 29, 2014
phat78boy I was pretty much told the exact same thing. I have chosen not to do mine at this time for this reason. If we get the ability to "lock" the frunk or a fix actually becomes available, I would get this repair done right away.
It would only make me more mad to pay to have it fixed and it happen again.�
Jul 29, 2014
William13 I will admit that I have caused a crease that is barely noticeable in my frunk by waxing too vigorously.
Three points: 1) Tesla has already changed the design from Signiture days where paint less dent repair won't work to a design that restricts access to one which is hard but possible. 2) The hood was designed soft for pedestrian safety. Obviously too soft. 3) Tesla can make a minor change in the latch spreading forces out which could prevent this. Similarly they could move the break pedal slightly, but these things cost money and even Tesla is afraid of lawyers saying "obviously defective product since they changed x".�
Jul 29, 2014
LaJolla William13, thanks for your information...very helpful. Despite Tesla's efforts to make paint-less dent repair possible, I've now been told by four separate dent repair guys, including ones recommended by Tesla, that they have all seen many, many of these creases and that paint-less repairs are seldom possible. In fact, some say that attempts at such paint-less repairs will make the damage worse.
Hence my visit to the Tesla-recommended body shop, where I received both a hefty hood repair estimate and the advice that it didn't make much sense to do the repair unless I could ensure that for as long as I own the car that no one else would close the frunk -- because, if I wasn't able to ensure that, then the likelihood of the damage recurring was very high. Not the greatest answer, but at least the body shop expert was straightforward about this issue.�
Jul 29, 2014
Vger I must be really lucky! After reading all these horror stories, I had to go out and check my 18-month old Signature for frunk damage. Nothing!
Whew, now I can sleep another night!�
Jul 30, 2014
WTFRUNK I have not yet experienced the issue, but am now very hesitant to use the Frunk because of all of the reported issues. For a moment let's set aside Tesla fixing this in some way (which they should do). In anyone's discussion with body shops or paintless dent repair, have any of them indicated, or anyone on the forum self investigated, what a DIY preventative fix might look like? A small wedge of solder, a wood shim, or a firm caulking compound inserted into the gap under where the crease is likely to occur? This may give the thin skin some additional structural rigidity. It may not solve the problem completely, but may lessen the likelihood of occurrence? If the fix was that simple I'm sure Tesla would have implemented it, but trying to come up with some creative solution to reduce the occurrence ahead of time.
I have yet to see a good picture of where the creases occur. I don't need a picture of the crease, but if someone takes a hood shot top and from underneath and circles the at risk areas I can take a look this weekend on what options might exist to improve the structural integrity of the area.�
Jul 30, 2014
phat78boy As others have stated, many repair shops have openly admitted there is no "fix". If someone untrained in the delicate nature of closing the hood works on your car, there will be a very high likely hood of it happening again. That means car detailers, valets, even Tesla technicians themselves.
I have put off the repair until an alternate closing method becomes available....or it gets much worse. Barring a hood redesign, a self closing latch assembly would be a good compromise.�
Jul 30, 2014
WTFRUNK Clarification on my question. I was looking for a preventative fix. Something one can do before the crease appears by strengthening the area ourselves and making it less susceptible to the issue.�
Jul 30, 2014
MiddKid See my first post here to see where the crease is in relation to the front "T"
Frunk Dent (Frustrating...)�
Jul 31, 2014
William13 @vger, you may have a crease and not know it. I seldom see my crease. I look long and hard and then only in special lighting conditions see my crease.�
Aug 8, 2014
LaJolla Greetings. I am the originator of this thread, and several of you have been kind enough and concerned enough to email me to ask me if I received any help from Tesla. The answer, unfortunately, is no. It appears that all of us frunk creasers -- and, from all of the forum threads and anecdotal evidence -- there are many, many of us, are on our own. We have apparently purchased a car where simply closing the hood in anything less than an exactly precise way can create $2,000 worth of body repair work. I have warned several of my friends about this, who were on the brink of Tesla Model S purchase and Model X owner, and they've moved on to more crease-resistent options. I wish someone had warned me! Live and learn!�
Aug 8, 2014
philgrocks It is too bad that Tesla didn't do the right thing. Based on your post:
1) I don't use the frunk
2) I ensure that after service there is no damage�
Aug 9, 2014
RDoc Hopefully Tesla will redesign the frunk closing on the X.�
Aug 11, 2014
Velo1 I have no knowledge any of this is related to the crease issue, but I had a loaner brought to my house so the SC could rotate my tires. This is the fourth time I have had a loaner for this reason, but this was the first time the valet driver took a close walk around my car, noting every little rock ding, scratch, etc., on paper, and then had me sign that I agree with these observations. My thoughts went to this thread, as I think the SC guys got word to proactively document any defects before leaving an owner's property with their car. I am fine with this, and think it is a good thing to do. It protects TM and the owner should there be any disputes.
This crease issue needs to proactively be remedied by TM, in my opinion. Best.�
Aug 11, 2014
AmpedRealtor Service has done this since I took delivery of my car last August. Whenever the car goes to service, the advisor walks around the car and notes any pre-existing damage. I've always had to sign that form.
By the same token, no owner should ever accept their vehicle back from service unless they conduct the same inspection to make sure the service center did not inadvertently damage a part of the car. Discovering a crease in the frunk hood once you get home doesn't help if you didn't point it out at the service center when you picked up your car.�
Aug 11, 2014
wamochi +1
i definitely look for it now after reading this thread. i got a red 85 loaner last time with very low miles (about 1,500) and it already had the frunk crease :scared:. so i know what to look for. we did our first "show and tell" of the frunk to some relatives this past week and did the obligatory photo of kids in the frunk. when i closed it i tried to be casual and not look like a freak, and thankfully i was successful in not damaging it. i think this only the second time i've opened/closed it since getting the car. it still makes me very nervous the amount of pressure/force it takes to shut it.�
Dec 23, 2014
Hd172 I recently picked my car up from service with a crease. Tesla sent the car to a body shop for repair. I used the frunk a few days after the repair. I'm very cautious about where I place my hands. There is now another crease in the hood. I'm not sure what to do now.�
Dec 23, 2014
markb1 How did the body shop fix it? New hood, or did they somehow repair the old one? If they repaired the old one, then I would definitely push on the body shop and Tesla to replace it. Otherwise, I think I would still ask Tesla to replace it. I doesn't sounds like this is your fault at all.
I'm coming up on two years in my Tesla, and still no crease. (Granted, I don't typically use the frunk, but I do open and close it every other week when I wash the car.) I think some hoods must be stronger than others.�
Dec 23, 2014
Todd Burch Can one of you showing creases record a video of yourselves closing the frunk? Might give us a better idea of what the problem is. I've had an early car and a recent car, and never had frunk creasing issues in either.�
Dec 23, 2014
rogbmw When my S was delivered in February 2013 the delivery specialist showed me exactly how to place my hands - both on the outside corners - and press evenly but not hard, to close the frunk. He showed me to gently close the hood until the latch touches/engages, then close it by hand. I guess I am fortunate, but I have not creased the hood. Having said that, I have owned several other makes, including BMWs, that have the same issue if the hoods are not closed carefully. Being careful with them simply carried over to the S when I close the hood. Also, having had prior BMWs with aluminum hoods also taught me to be careful as they are not as strong as metal hoods.
I think that a Valet lockout of the Frunk is an excellent idea.�
Dec 23, 2014
rjcbox Unbelievable this is still an issue, it's unacceptable. There should be no wrong/right way to close the frunk. It should be idiot proof, as in "let's-reinforce-this-frunk-so-even-if-some-drunk-guy-decides-to-close-it-with-his-butt-idiot-proof"�
Dec 23, 2014
Todd Burch It sounds to me like you are in the market for a Saturn.�
Dec 23, 2014
ecarfan There are always "right" ways to do things. Adding many pounds of hood reinforcement is not the optimal approach. As has been pointed out, other cars with aluminum hoods also require cars.�
Dec 23, 2014
rjcbox I'm sure the hood could be engineered with minimal weight gain and be significantly more durable�
Dec 23, 2014
aronth5 Agree. Do we know if anyone has had a frunk problem on a car built recently?�
Dec 23, 2014
Andyw2100 More to the point, we know there has been some redesign on the dual motor frunk hood / closing mechanism, because there is one latch instead of two. The question is if that redesign included strengthening of the hood.�
Dec 24, 2014
jerry33 FWIW, my car was built some time ago and still no problem--and the frunk gets opened and closed a lot.�
Dec 24, 2014
Todd Burch I don't notice a change in the design of the hood between VIN1653 and 55228.�
Dec 24, 2014
jerry33 My thought is that whether or not your hood is susceptible to denting depends on how hard it is to close. Tolerances being what they are, some cars have hoods that require a major push to close them and others don't.�
Dec 24, 2014
Hd172 My hood was repaired. I'll give Tesla a call.�
Dec 25, 2014
NielsChr Just FYI. Mine have not yet had the bended frunk hood isue. I does not use the frunk a lot, so it might be the reson why I havent seen this isue yet.
I alway close it by one hand and press just above the latch - I know this is not recormended, but it have worked well so far.
I newer slam the hood or like. Just a gentle push to close.
My car is (was) with the orange foam in the hood, as it one hot day came out in small drops, never seen it since, so asume it is now hardened and newer will happen again.
Maybe I have been purly lucky or else the foam does help a lot - I tend to belive the later.�
Dec 25, 2014
AmpedRealtor Because Saturn engineers are able to design a proper front hood, but not Tesla? Seems like an odd statement.�
Dec 25, 2014
Todd Burch Refer to old Saturn commercials in which they take a bat to the panels to show the resiliency.�
Dec 25, 2014
jerry33 In a typical ICE car there is no seal around the hood to provide resistance to closing--and most are steel rather than aluminium.�
Dec 26, 2014
martinwinlow It appears to me that that are a few of important issues that keep getting lost as this thread expands:-
1/ The issue is a particularly daft design flaw and should be remedied by Tesla ASA-flippin'-P! I am sup prised the Tesla haters have not latched on to this issue yet.
2/ A remedy cannot simply be achieved by making the metal thicker or tougher as it is designed to protect pedestrians in a collision - this is (I suspect) set in stone.
3/ No one has yet explained what the mechanism of damage causation is - could it simply be a matter of lubricating the latch mechanism so the hood shuts easier? Is it caused simply by dropping the hood from too high a point? If so, would simply a different spec'ed air stay prevent the hood from ever hitting the latch with enough speed to cause the crease?
4/ A cure. As others have suggested, it occurs to me (tho I have no knowledge of the way the latching mechanism is designed) that the simplest solution for Tesla would be a 'drop in' replacement, self-closing latch system. I expect this is easier said than done, may be impossible and will certainly be relatively expensive. I am a bit puzzled, though, why the rear hatch gets a automated closing system (with the Tech Package) but the front doesn't *especially* given this issue of hood creasing.
5/ For those who do not need to use the frunk, is there a setting to disable access to it using the fob - thus preventing 'just anyone' opening it (and, therefore, potentially damaging it)?
Regards and season's greetings to one and all,
Martin Winlow.�
Dec 26, 2014
jerry33 I doubt that it's lubrication as mine has never been lubricated and no dent despite frequent use. From what I've read, it seems that some are much harder to close than others--I put this down to the difference in seal height, but it could be the placement of the latch mechanism.
I think dropping is a red herring. Dropping it just doesn't close it properly as there isn't enough weight, but I don't have any evidence one way or the other.
As to why it's not known. Tesla isn't saying and no one wants to purchase 20-30 hoods and perform experiments to see what does and doesn't cause the dent.
Besides costs, it's the regulations in various countries. With the hatch you can have a one-size-fits-all solution as it's not a safety issue if the hatch comes open when driving--and it's not likely too anyway--even if defective. With a motorized hood, you might need one for each country/jurisdiction.�
Dec 26, 2014
AmpedRealtor Oh, right, those plastic panels on the outside... I actually thought that was a great idea!�
Dec 26, 2014
eco5280 With panel gaps you could drive a Tesla through.�
Dec 26, 2014
Todd Burch This is why I think we need some videos of people with creases showing how they normally close the frunk. It could be a problem with technique, or a problem with the latch being too stiff, or something else. A video would point us in the direction of the cause...or at least possibly eliminate one or two possibilities.�
Dec 26, 2014
bollar I thought it was resolved that the frunk insulation was too high on some cars, requiring excessive force to get the latch to engage.�
Dec 27, 2014
randompersonx Just took delivery of my P85D last night. I've driven a Porsche 911 for 8 years which only has a frunk. The frunk on the P85D is VERY difficult to close in comparison to the 911 -- I could feel the hood flexing as I was putting pressure on it, hands about 6 inches apart on either side of the "T". The amount of pressure required was nearly as much as "doing a push up on the hood".
Assuming something isn't just "wrong" with my car, I agree that this is a design flaw.�
Dec 27, 2014
jerry33 My S85 requires hardly any force to close--not zero, but not a great deal either, and I do the same 6-12" on either side of the "T". I'm still thinking this is a problem with the seals around the hood being of different heights.�
Oct 26, 2015
ThosEM I've got the crease and no reason to blame anyone for closing it improperly. Everyone who has used it knows how to close it. In my opinion, the crease forms during normal road flexure because the latch is pulling too tightly against the hood seals. The evidence is that the latch pulls at a single point and that point is where the crease forms. A double latch or one with otherwise more distributed tension would seem to be a step in the right direction.
So there are two aspects; how to fix it and how to prevent it from recurring. I'm disappointed I'm not seeing anything here about the latter issue. A loosening of the latch mechanism so it doesn't pull so hard against the more distributed seals seem called for to me, though jerry33 reports getting a crease with lower apparent tension on the hood.
Comments?�
Oct 26, 2015
msnow I have never heard of this happening other than not closing it properly. Didn't know this was a "thing".�
Oct 26, 2015
jak You brought back an old thread.
The older cars had the double-latch system and they had a lot of issues with the frunk crease. When I had my older car, I'm fairly certain I did nothing to cause the crease since I never used the frunk, but the service center claimed I closed my frunk improperly causing the crease. It would cost $600 to from an outside service to repair it and I chose not to do it because I wasn't sure if the problem would come back due to, what I consider, a flaw in the design of the frunk. Tesla did do some continuous improvements over time to try and address the problem with newer cars, but I don't know if they solved it.
Newer cars now have a single-latch system that's a bit easier to close than the older double-latch cars. I traded in my older car for a newer one and I don't yet have the frunk crease <knock on wood>. Only time will tell whether the frunk crease will appear.�
Oct 29, 2015
ThosEM Thanks for this; it's very interesting as I had no idea that older cars had a different latch setup that also had problems.
The Rockville MD Service Center insists that anything but pressure at the corners of the hood (as indicated in the owners manual) will cause the crease. We have been using two hands about halfway between the center and the corners, so their position is that we caused our crease by departing from the owners manual procedure.
I'm wondering if the problem comes from pressing on the hood surface, or if it could be caused as I speculated earlier, by the latch mechanism pulling down on the hood against the compression of the rubber seal. The stresses on the hood are a bit different in those two cases:
i) There is the bending stress from the moment between the force points (localized) and the resistance of the seal compression (more distributed). It isn't obvious how that bending stress distorts the metal to make a crease, but it doesn't seem impossible, and I see some evidence of the corners having lifted up slightly, indicating a straightening of the edge line.
ii) There is added stress directly on the part that deforms, when pushing down on the upper surface, compared with pulling down by the latch mechanism. I suppose this is Tesla's thinking about the crease, that it represents a deformation of the outer surface relative to the inner surface by downward pressure.
An effective test of these two possibilities would be to have a latch mechanism that draws the hood down from the inside, so no pressure needs to be applied to the outer surface. And of course we'd all much prefer that regardless of the crease problems.
If no crease results except when pressing down from above, that would settle the matter, and a mechanized latch would thenceforth completely eliminate the crease problem.
If a crease still results from the mechanized latch, we'd know that no amount of careful placement of hands when closing the hood will ever prevent it, and Tesla would know that they have a design problem with the strength of the hood itself.
It seems about time to me that such a mechanism was tested and supplied with future Model S. Does anyone know how this works on the newer Model S or X?�
Oct 29, 2015
alexucf This still remains the only "un-tesla" thing about Tesla. They just refuse to acknowledge the poor design, even after changing the frunk's instructions.
Hope this isn't an issue for current production cars.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét