Jun 16, 2015
kuttakamina Interesting video -
NEW 2016 BMW 7 Series Review - YouTube
Other than the obvious ICE vs EV debate, few things,
1. Tesla I still feel is more hitech. If you like technology, Tesla still wins. The gesture thing I feel is gimmicky.
2. Headlights on BMW are better.
3. The interiors of BMW are FAR better.
4. Tesla is more practical (more carrying capacity).
5. BMW is more $ than Tesla.
6. Model S looks sexier. 7 series looks like a dowdy old mans car.
What do you think of the 7 series vs Model S?�
Jun 16, 2015
FLDarren Curious what u mean by better headlights. Better looling, better output? Never have I seen any headlight create such a perfect line that will cut any pedestrian right at the knees.�
Jun 16, 2015
DougH Why do you think the Model S is more hitech?�
Jun 16, 2015
kuttakamina The laser headlights offer much better visibility and don't blind the oncoming drivers. Model S xenon auto headlights aren't bad, but laser headlights are awesome. I've tried them in an Audi. Though I think they are still not legal in the U.S. (At least they weren't last year. Which is why the i8 in the U.S. has xenon). The LED headlights on Acura are crappy btw.
- - - Updated - - -
Bigger screen, always connected, slacker radio, autopilot, updating over air, remote diagnostics etc. tech toys.�
Jun 16, 2015
Max* Heads up display
Top and side view camera
Ventilated seats
Soft close doors
Rear entertainment systems
Night vision with pedestrian detection
I know this is a Tesla forum, but you're completely discounting BMW.�
Jun 16, 2015
kuttakamina Ventilated seats and soft close doors are under better interior.
But yes, the rest are technology.
Its a a toss up really. But for my money I prefer the tech in Tesla.�
Jun 16, 2015
Lloyd 1st year depreciation 7 series is a lot !!�
Jun 16, 2015
kuttakamina Thats a very good point. I can't believe I missed that
Also as the tax benefits for tesla expire in 2 years, it will help the depreciation of existing Teslas on the road.�
Jun 16, 2015
JER All of those display modules look like they were added as an afterthought.�
Jun 16, 2015
kuttakamina One more thing. The BMW dealer close to me is a dickhead. I went there to test drive an m6. My usual style, stained shorts, unshaven. They didn't bother attending to me. LOL.
The tesla guys, they chatted with me tirelessly for 2 hours on a Saturday evening telling me everything about the car at the tyco center location.�
Jun 16, 2015
DougH My question was not meant in a snotty way. I love my Tesla and I am not a fan of BMW in any way but I do not feel that the Model S is more hitech than the 7 series. I feel exact opposite. Tesla is getting there but they are years behind other high end cars in techy stuff.
- - - Updated - - -
Nice!
I am surprised that an M guy bought a yawnfest of a 70D.
- - - Updated - - -
As for the BMW video, is anyone really impressed that you can back your car out of the garage with the remote?........whupity friggin do. Even when Tesla's are able to this I will not use it.....I love driving my Tesla and these driverless features do not impress me at all.�
Jun 16, 2015
kuttakamina Douglas, I didn't think you were being snotty
m6 vs 70d, I'm weird that way. I do a shipload of research before making big purchases. I was pretty sure I wanted an eco friendly car, and 0-60 in hella fast was not important to me. Ride quality, tech toys, and reliability were my top concerns. I drove everything I could practically speaking, even if it was just to cross it off the list. The M6 was nice, but the dealer attitude and gas guzzler part pretty much killed it for me. I didn't even bother test driving it when 10 mins at the bmw dealership they just thought it was cool to see me wait.
My top two picks were a 2 year old sl550 or a new tesla. Tesla won on eco stuff. I like being nice to our planet. I will miss those massaging seats though�
Jun 16, 2015
DougH My boss drives a SL550, he had that thing shipped from New York.....such a sexy car.�
Jun 16, 2015
kuttakamina IT IS!!! Girlfriend thought it'd mess up her hairstyle. I suggested we could shave her head, but she won the argument.�
Jun 16, 2015
WarpedOne High tech?
Sure, in line with:
�
Jun 16, 2015
Designtime We have an SL550 and a Model S.
We love the Model S more, but the SL is WAY sexier. We will keep until Tesla comes up with a convertible we want. The Roadster is too small and utilitarian.�
Jun 16, 2015
Mr X Headlights are better than the Tesla's?
Ya.... No.�
Jun 16, 2015
DougH Dont they always?, I just spent $77K on a Model S for her and she wants a 85 not a P85..�
Jun 16, 2015
artsci You forgot fossil fuel engine. That totally disqualifies it IMHO.�
Jun 16, 2015
MartinAustin Nice video. If you want to watch the original version from BMW, which has noticeably superior picture and sound quality (and not the hijacked, recompressed and reposted version posted above), here it is -
The all-new BMW 7 Series. All you need to know. - YouTube
The BMW 7 series is obviously aiming itself at a different market. BMW knows their car can't beat the Model S at what the Model S does, so they gotta find some other features to differentiate it. They have to find buyers who will say "well... I'm going to do without the Tesla for now, I really want this other feature that the BMW has." In this video they basically skip over the conventional/traditional engine & drivetrain, compared to the time they spend on interior luxury features, which no doubt beat the Model S.
Headlights was never a reason to select one car over another.
The display and controlling the car seems just as behind the lead as it has been before, even with "gesturing." How may drivers or front-seat passengers will accidentally trigger car controls while talking with their hands? I talk with my hands. Fortunately my Model S doesn't accidentally open its sunroof during a rainstorm just 'cos of something I was saying. If BMW owners disable these gesturing controls... the designers have failed, and research and development was all a waste of time - but the owners still paid for it anyway. BMW doesn't know how to convey its technology to customers. The Tesla just has "software" running the car. BMW bombards you with technological monikers like Traffic Jam Assistant, Executive Drive Pro and so on. Talk about useless bells and whistles.
The reason you choose Tesla Model S over other cars is that it is a massive technological change over conventional cars. It also has zero CO2 emissions (not 49g/km like their most economical variant), and it's still fast, quiet, comfortable and capacious. I mean, look at the things they're saying are unique about the 7-series - it automatically drives itself into the garage or tight spaces? What percentage of the purchasers of this $90K+ car are putting it into a tight space on a regular basis and have always been looking forward to that feature? This car is an incremental improvement over the previous year's model.
Oh, and the final reason I wouldn't buy this? I live in Texas, and I can't be bothered importing it directly from BMW in Germany. State Law says I have to buy it from a member of the Texas Auto Dealers Association, which has a State-sanctioned monopoly.�
Jun 16, 2015
Mr X
Give her the "D" instead :wink:�
Jun 16, 2015
pmoa I really like the 7 here. But alas I like being unique in owning a tesla. I see 7 series all over the place. A sexy car yes but not alas unique as the model S�
Jun 16, 2015
MartinAustin Wow that's a beautiful set of pics�
Jun 16, 2015
Cyclone The Tyco guys are amazing!! My vehicle delivery with them was superb!!�
Jun 16, 2015
thx1139 I dont know how much the BMW tech has changed, but the BMW 530i I used to have had iDrive. The quote back then was "Honey you control everything else while iDrive" because the iDrive so such a pain to use.�
Jun 16, 2015
Spidy BMW ConnectedDrive, BMW Assist, BMW Teleservice Diagnosis
Also what will Autopilot do that the 7 series can't do?
And wouldn't be suprised if the 7 series doesn't have over the air updates at least for all the navigation and entertainment software.
You know headlights have functions? Not just about looking cool...
CES 2015 BMW Audi Laser Headlights - YouTube�
Jun 16, 2015
Pollux I'm curious how the gesture controls will fare in the real world.
For me, I'd rather be able to keep my hands on the steering wheel. I am particularly fond of Tesla's clickable scroll wheels. When I watched the BMW video, for each gesture the presenter demonstrated, I thought of how I'd perform the comparable task using Tesla's scroll wheel or buttons, and wound up thinking that I vastly preferred not having to wave my right hand in the middle of the air in front of the dashboard.
Alan�
Jun 16, 2015
jeffro01 Interesting stuff. Nothing really impressed me beyond the much better seats, and the key fob with the screen in it to control parking. That being said, what autopilot is supposed to be able to do soon renders the need for an LCD in your key fob to a gimmick.
Jeff�
Jun 16, 2015
No2DinosaurFuel Are you kidding me? The sl550 looks fog ugly. I didnt know what it looked like at first until i googled it. I would mich rather have the bmw 7 series look over the sl550. Some mercedes look good. But definitely NOT the sl550.�
Jun 16, 2015
DougH She's over the D and now the P so I am a loss for words.
- - - Updated - - -
ewwwwwwwwwwww the 7 Series is fugly.�
Jun 16, 2015
steph280 driving dynamics: do doubt Tesla wins. But the interior finish and creature comfort I think the Germans still has the upper edge. Car and Driver seems to agree as well.
2014 Tesla Model S vs 2014 Mercedes-Benz S550! - Head 2 Head Ep. 54 - YouTube
Once the stubborn German engineers change their mind and look outside the box, I think Tesla will have some serious competition. But by then Tesla will be way ahead of the game already.�
Jun 16, 2015
JohnSnowNW My first car was a BMW, and I have no reason to dislike them as a company. However, this commercial was absurd. I'm not even sure who this advert is aimed at...maybe those considering a Rolls?
Seriously, what's up with the features in the rear?
Also, the design of the front end makes the it seem comically tall...
I'm sure it's a great car...but I just don't see the point of most of the "innovations."�
Jun 16, 2015
GSP About one minute into the video the presenter explains that the car must start its engine to automatically back out of the garage. It can not even move without starting the engine! How completely primitive.
GSP
PS. Overall, the new 7 is pretty impressive. The interior looks very luxurious, but also very "busy." I actually prefer a Tesla's minimalistic approach. It seems less cluttered with controls and other features. The Tesla is more like an Apple TV remote, and the BMW is more like the typical LG or Samsung TV remote with 73 buttons on it.�
Jun 16, 2015
P85DPB When you think BMW, think DEPRECIATION at it's worse! I'll stick with my P85D for now�
Jun 16, 2015
sorka The interior looks very very nice and I'm sure it has extra cup holders, door pockets, center console storage, lighted vanity mirrors, coat hooks, and grab handles all of which the Tesla lacks.
But the extra gimmicks will eventually break. BMW is notorious for electronics gadget failure. And that remote fob with the screen on it? Are you supposed to charge that every day? Do you keep it in your pocket? Couldn't they have had an app for iOS/Android using BT 4.0 for the out of vehicle remote functions? Why would I lift a finger to Minority Report my volume down when my left thumb is already on the left scroll wheel on the steering wheel? A lot of that stuff seems very concept car like and not practical when you actually try to live with it.�
Jun 16, 2015
mdevp The BMW does have a better interior. I grew up with a Merc 420SEL which my dad loved that had a nice interior. But after viewing a few "how it's made" type car shows you quickly realize that much of a fancy interior is wood inserts, leather seats/recliners and panels. I rather prefer spending my money towards tech rather than something that you can put on furniture or a handbag.�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina I'm with you on that. Still, some basic minimum quality is good to have. Sound deadening is something Tesla could improve on (and they have been). The seats need loads of help, perforated leather, cooled seats, and built in massager is almost expected in a car of this price and class. Exterior lights when getting in and out of the car - those LEDs in the retractable handles aren't quite enough, although its a nice touch.
And for gods sake, why isn't the autopilot camera, and rear view camera, not being used as a dashcam? I hope they enable that via a software update, and let us stick a USB key in for storage. C'mon Elon? Please
I think one very important thing to realize is, given deprecation and higher entry cost of the bimmer, the bimmer is a twice if not more, as expensive car to own. For 2x expensive, if you get better interior, I think its a bad deal.
And yes that gestures thing is a gimmick.�
Jun 17, 2015
JER ^ This.�
Jun 17, 2015
jwg There is no question the BMW 7 series is a great car. And yes, technologically it is miles ahead of a Tesla, with the exception of the drivetrain of course. I've never owned a BMW (have never been crazy about their styling) but have owned several other luxury cars, all costing more or less what a Tesla does - and what I have come to realize over the years is that very little of all their advanced technological features and interior luxuriousness really doesn't do much for me. Yes, they are "cool" when they are first appearing on cars but I end up taking full advantage of few of them (and then resent having to pay huge dollars to fix them when they break - or I just leave them broken) and while being surrounded by a plush, wonderfully-crafted interior is nice, it isn't really a big deal for me personally. Maybe I just have simple tastes. About the only thing I wish Tesla did more like the other luxury cars is build a completely solid, rattle-free, extremely quiet body. I am always hearing noises come out of the suspension or body somewhere that I never would in a high-end Mercedes, Lexus, Audi, and I assume BMW. But they will get better in that regard I'm sure, and overall today I wouldn't trade my Tesla for anything.
Great comment about the cameras re dashcam usage. I'm on the fence about putting in a unit and am hoping that one morning I wake up to a software update that enables their cameras to operate as one. Would be much nicer, and not invite thieves to try to steal an expensive one that I installed.�
Jun 17, 2015
travwill A lot of their features in the cabin are in the rear because they sell a LOT of BMWs in the China market. Anyone that is somewhat successful in China will have a driver, it is the way to do it, shows your status, and cheap. Those that have a driver want to relax in the backseat during their 2 hour+ one way Beijing drive in traffic for like 15 miles ;-)�
Jun 17, 2015
sorka I just installed my BlackVue 2 CH on Monday. I can't wait for Elon to decide to use the built in hardware for something as basic as that which is now appearing as optional factory equipment on other cars. Heck, even the Stingray has that option.
I don't know that I agree the 7 series is miles ahead technologically. I agree the 7 series has a lot of bells and whistles in the comfort and convenience department that the MS doesn't, but the MS also has tons if not more advanced features that the 7 series doesn't. Think about all the things you can do through the 17" screen and everything you can do on the app remotely. Little touches like geofencing features or tracking the car in the app. Think about all the things that can still be added because of the hardware that already exists that is only being utilized at about 10% of it's feature capability. Tesla engineers will be adding features and apps for years to come. I'm pretty sure that when you buy the 7 series that it's pretty much frozen and that software updates will address bugs if you're lucky and only if you have the dealer install it.�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina Acura asked me for $800 to update maps. I wonder what BMW charges, to update goddamned maps, that I can get for free on my phone. Idiots.�
Jun 17, 2015
brianman I'd happily pay $1,000 more on my next Tesla to have "integrated camera that beats BlackVue's offering in every way".
Actually, now that I think about it, I should start including this in my formal feature requests to Tesla.�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina Why are tesla owners so happy to PAY or rather OVERPAY for stuff that should be standard at this price?
I'd be happy if they enabled this via a software update, so I don't have to go to a service center - and mailed me a low profile USB key for the trouble .. with the option of going to the service center for an internal memory card installation .. for free of course. That would make me happy.
But if Tesla asked $1000 for this, I'd feel like I'm being ripped off.�
Jun 17, 2015
Max* $1,000 to avoid paying an installer for a BlackVue is being ripped off vs. $600 for a center console is not?�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina BOTH are ripoffs. So is that damned apple watch. It costs then $83 to make it, and they sell it for $350 (plus 50 for Obama)
The car itself (Model S), is not such a huge ripoff. Batteries are expensive, and given what the car is, its reasonably priced.
I think they have a major profit margin per car, but you get future innovation, and superchargers for it.
But the accessories - yeah those are ripoffs.
That center console, should be part of the car. Even a Hyundai has a center console.�
Jun 17, 2015
Max* Those silly capitalist companies trying to make money! How dare they!�
Jun 17, 2015
brianman If they can match or beat BlackVue on features with Tesla quality, service, and warranty then $1,000 is a bargain. I paid $300 for the device and ~$300 for installation of my front-only BlackVue on my Sig. The battery in the camera needs replacement for the GPS and clock to work properly again; that's a "todo" for me which is part of why I haven't pulled the trigger on installing the dual-cam version on my new vehicle.
If Tesla offered "just works, with Tesla official support" it's well worth $1,000.
So, no, my point is that a good implementation from Tesla is well worth that $1,000. Definitely not overpay.
As for why I'd be happy to pay? It's an option -- you invest in the hardware and software. I don't expect Tesla to eat the costs for this feature set in the base offering.�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina Yes compared to $600 aftermarket, vs $1000 factory installed, totally integrated with the car, with no risk + good warranty etc... I see your point.
BUT - software update, freebie, that'd be so awesome!�
Jun 17, 2015
caps04 This BMW has a much more luxurious interior but as a parent with a young child, that's something I don't really miss. I like the lines and simplicity of the Model S but to each his own. Another thing I don't miss on BMWs and Mercedes is the maintenance costs. It's like you buy a luxury car and pay luxury costs throughout the ownership. With Tesla, I paid a lot upfront but I am really enjoying the lower day to day costs, besides the smile on my face every time I drive the car.
The way I see it:
BMW 7/Mercedes S - Great for people who are upper middle class or richer and want to be enveloped in luxury.
Model S - Great for eco conscious/software engineers who are middle class or richer and want to be enveloped in technology
(I say this personally: I can afford a 100k Model S but not a 100k S-550)
In terms of Tech, at best Tesla is behind the following features from this new BMW:
1) Laser adaptive Headlights (rumored to be coming)
2) Fancier puddle Lights (no big deal)
3) Heads up display (but I really love the Hi-Res Retina display of the Model S)
4) Lighted roof (Meh)
5) 6 aromas (Meh)
Everything else tech related is better in Model S IMHO. Either better implemented or less gimmicky.�
Jun 17, 2015
Max* But a Hyundai also has an engine/transmission. Sorry, couldn't resist.
I thought I'd be buying a Tesla center console as soon as they came back in stock, but after having the car for 5 days with no center console, I can't say that I miss it. (also my wife likes the minimalistic feel of not having one, so I think I'm not getting one after-all).�
Jun 17, 2015
liuping The autopilot camera may not be suitable for a dash cam. It could be black and white, color skew or infrared sensitive. I know the Mobieye said their camera was not good for human viewing.
I think the rear camera is an uncompressed video stream, and would fill up a USB stick in a few minutes. It would require adding a on the fly video compression chip to make it viable as a dash cam.
I'd love to see integrate dash cam functionality on future Tesla's, but it's not something you can just add easily to the existing cars.�
Jun 17, 2015
Max* Top and side view camera
Ventilated seats
Soft close doors
Rear entertainment systems
Night vision with pedestrian detection
And I'm sure I'm missing some options too... but that was form a quick glance at the 7-series specs.�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina I was able to order one last night (euro time). I was looking at all the stuff I have in my car right now
- Sunglasses
- Eye glasses (I HATE GETTING OLDER)
- Lotion (for those sensitive moments after a shower at the gym)
- Registration/Insurance/etc.etc.
- iPad (when I'm driving)
- Change
- Tissues
- Charging cable
- Pen
- etc
Also, sometimes you have stuff you want to conceal (not have in open view), and getting out of the car, opening the frunk etc. - yeah thats gonna draw attention.
Where do you keep all that stuff with no center console bro?�
Jun 17, 2015
Max* I went through the items I had in my previous car, and discarded 90% of them, as they've been there for 9+ years and I haven't used them for 8+ years, lol.
A couple random things like the tire pressure gauge, and the tread depth gauge and the flat tire plug kit I placed into the UMC pouch
Eyeglasses -> on my eyes!
Sunglasses -> don't wear 'em. though I'm surprised there is no... storage space by the sunroof to hide them like most normal cars have!
Paper/pen -> glove box
Insurance -> globe box
Change -> Really? Tolls are ez-pass. Parking meters are credit card or phone-app
Charging cable -> Plugged into the 12V outlet
Tissues -> That wouldn't fit in a center console anyways
Charge cards -> Glove box or that little opening between the display and yacht floor
I can understand the appeal for a center console, trust me, I was pissed there wasn't one, and I wanted to buy one and then I was pissed that I couldn't. But now, after less than a week, I'm surprised at how OK I am without it.
We have a "road trip" coming up in a few weeks. I may change my mind again after that. But for daily driving, I don't miss it one bit.�
Jun 17, 2015
liuping Sorry, but while the Apple watch is fairly expensive, it not cost $83 to make.
Not counting development (hardware and software) costs, factory tooling costs, marketing cost, etc is a little like saying saying a BMW should cost the same as a Hyundai, because they contain the same amount of metal. The cost of the parts is not the cost of making a product.
Also, why do you think Obama get's $50 per Apple Watch?�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina The Apple Watch costs less than $84 to make - Business Insider
$50 sales tax (Obama's share - or well not Obama personally, but you know what I mean).
- - - Updated - - -
You might be right. But I got the center console anyway. Its $650 though. Grr. (with sales tax).�
Jun 17, 2015
caps04 By that logic Microsoft Windows and Office costs $0 to make.�
Jun 17, 2015
woof Last I looked, there was no Federal Sales Tax in the USA. Thus I don't know what you mean, as any sales tax goes to the State and/or Local municipality. Buy your stuff from states that have no sales taxes, such as Delaware, New Hampshire, Oregon, etc. if you don't wish to pay sales tax.�
Jun 17, 2015
sickfox Lots of bells and whistles in BMW but I'd take the Model S in a heartbeat! :biggrin:
Mr X, This below, and lots of Tesla Moments seals the deal for me!
�
Jun 17, 2015
WillAustin I am surprised that I don't want one after 2 months. In a way I like being forced to get rid of any crap that accumulates in the car.�
Jun 17, 2015
pedriscoll
When were you able to order the console? I have been trying for a month and it is still listed as sold out.�
Jun 17, 2015
pan If you have not used BMW's headlights you have not used the best adaptive headlight system. Amazing clarity and color representation.�
Jun 17, 2015
DougH Agreed.�
Jun 17, 2015
JER Yes, that worries me too. If that's the case, component vendors should be pressured to add HD dashcam capability - even if it means two cameras in the assembly.
According to nVidia's specifications, the Tegra chips do have hardware acceleration for several HD video compression algorithms. Whether this intrudes on resources tied up with other processes I don't know; you'd have to ask a developer about that. It wouldn't surprise me if it did, given the difficulty implementing reversing lines.
That reminds me: Why do the Tesla Model S displays use low-power processors designed for small mobile devices, when they could just as easily have had something from a graphics workstation? It's not like thermal management or battery life are going to be issues when packaged in an EV...�
Jun 17, 2015
caps04
It becomes available almost every day and then sells out a few hours later. You can track changes on that order page via Follow That Page - web monitor: we send you an email when your favorite page has changed.�
Jun 17, 2015
mdevp I enjoy your posts, I really do, but you have to realize that sales tax is imposed and collected by the state. Obama/federal gov't really has nothing to do with it.�
Jun 17, 2015
Spidy Complaining about sales tax on this forum when Tesla or better said EV are heavily subsidies by taxes is pretty funny.�
Jun 17, 2015
kuttakamina Yes Teslas headlights are more attractive. Someone spotted a model s mule with LED headlights recently. I thought that looked ugly.
laser headlights can be more functional though and they can achieve the tesla look. And some people are crazy about the bmw eyes.
- - - Updated - - -
I was trolling around on TMC forums and saw a message that it's available. Saw it was available, and pulled the trigger immediately. 5 mins later, it was sold out.�
Jun 17, 2015
liuping Tim Cook has said IHS cost estimates are always very far off, and the the Business Insider article even points out how silly the numbers are since they do not count "staff costs, marketing, patent royalties, or research and development"
Obama (or more appropriately, the federal government) get $0 from sales tax, that is strictly a state and local tax. I have not even heard Fox News try to blame Obama for sales tax...
- - - Updated - - -
Not really that funny.
I paid almost $7000 in sales tax on my Model S. And CA gave me a $2500 credit. And don't get me started on the 10% income tax they take.�
Jun 17, 2015
Joules Verne Wow, talk about loading a car up with a bunch of junk.
I'm a BMW fan. I drive a 5 series now. Love the sophisticated interior comfort and toys, but this 7 goes way over the top. I never thought I'd accuse BMW of toy clutter, but man, this has it in spades. The opulence detracts from an otherwise classy car.
I dont like like the silver interior trimmings either. Looks plastic.
The gestures are just stupid. I never considered pressing buttons to be a bad thing. Especially since we have them on the steering wheel, where our hands are.
The auto park, too slow, and when would I do this as opposed to, I don't know... Driving it into its parking space. This is a general criticism. I'm sure I'll feel the same about Teslas auto park capability.
The ambient light show is totally unnecessary, seems to only benefit the rear passengers, but oddly I like it.
Not for me. I Still only have eyes for Tesla Model S.
Looks like a fun limo though.
China is going to love it.�
Jun 17, 2015
vvanders Probably because of ease of integration for GSM/4g.�
Jun 17, 2015
Just a Reader I suppose you have never tried to park a car of this size in a normal European public parking garage? It's a complete pain as the parking slots simply weren't designed to accommodate cars of this size. This feature will be well liked by those people who aren't able or willing to leave or to enter their cars like a contortionist.
As to the gestures, if you don't like them, then don't use them.�
Jun 18, 2015
spottyq Just curious, do you think you would like your car to auto park without supervision ? Say you get out of the car, press a button on the keyfob, and walk away whilst the car park itself ? What if it worked this way only at home, after a one-time setup for the car to mesure your parking place ?�
Jun 18, 2015
Robert.Boston It's interesting to see that BMW is touting all the comfort and convenience elements of its new flagship car. Whatever happened to "The Ultimate Driving Machine" and a focus on automotive performance?
Of course, we know the answer: if you're looking for the ultimate drivers car you buy a Tesla P85D rather than a BMW 7-series (or the M5).
That said, Tesla still has some gaps to close, e.g. headlight systems, seats (though I haven't compared the NextGen to BMW's sports seats), and 360� overhead visualization, road noise dampening, and creak/rattle control.�
Jun 18, 2015
3s-a-charm 7-series excels in a number of ways (especially rear seat comfort) but what I've learned from owning many different vehicles is one of the most important aspects of the driving experience is the transmission/gearbox.
Manual - engaging and fun but still requires skills most don't have in order to truly use properly and a pain in commuter traffic
Double-Clutch (DCT/PDK) - awesome for sports cars. Great control and little skill involved. Very engaging experience but still has to mash through gears
Automatic (ie. 7-series) - much better these days but not engaging. Still has to go through gears and downshift for passing power
Tesla - the single-speed system has blown me away and makes me frustrated with automatic transmissions.
Dont nut get me wrong, I like the looks of the Tesla - mostly because it is relatively rare (I bet if there were the opposite ratio of Teslas to BMWs on the road the bimmers would look more appealing) - but if the 7 had the underpinnings of the Tesla (electric drivetrain which is awesome) AND the 17" screen I would not hesitate to buy the BMW.
I suppose the the bottom line for me is the screen and the drivetrain put Tesla above all other sedans on the market.
3s-a-charm (named after my first 3 cars being 3-series BMWs)�
Jun 18, 2015
Thumper Neighbor just bought a 435 ix. Naturally he loves it, especially on the road, but really hates all the shifting other times. I just couldn't get him into an MS. Sorry for him.�
Jun 18, 2015
mdevp The critique is that having useless tech in a vehicle is unwanted. Almost all of my friends and work colleagues owning a '15 BMW feels gestures is useless. Also, you are paying for this tech in some way so criticizing it is fair game IMO.�
Jun 18, 2015
Joules Verne True. I've never parked in Europe. I tend to aim for the bigger, isolated spaces if I can.
Sure, but it bothers me that they spent R&D dollars on such a boneheaded feature.
How about instead they solve the spare tire problem, and not depend on runflat tires.
I love my car (even though I lust for the tesla), but the runflats have been a huge disappointment. They ride like bricks, and fail if the wind blows. I've had more tire and wheel problems with this car than any of my prior cars put together - all because of runflats and no spare - oh, and potholes.
- - - Updated - - -
I don't think I'd use it in practice.
At home I pull into my garage, press the homelink to close the garage door, leave the car and walk into my house.
I have no need to get out of the car first.
The only thing about auto parking that is appealing to me is the demo factor, which isn't worth paying for.
- - - Updated - - -
That is an interesting (and sad) point.
A friend of mine who recently bought a Model S said, BMW no longer holds the title for the ultimate driving machine.
I know you guys already know that, but this was the first time I heard somebody say it.
And I couldn't disagree with him.�
Jun 18, 2015
pmadflyer I bet that'll be popular. Imagine coming out to find a BMW 4 inches from your driver side door.�
Jun 18, 2015
jwg I have to agree that the hand gestures seem like a bizarre and slightly pointless idea. A weird party trick to show someone else in the car (when they actually work well) but I can't imagine ever using them regularly.
There is obviously a good reason BMW is releasing the new 7 series in China first, and why they now sell over 30% of their vehicles there (I don't know what % of the 7 series, but I bet it is even higher). While a lot of their new technology and luxury features don't overwhelm many of us, in China they are very powerful selling points for those wanting to impress others and show off their wealth or status. I think among the big luxury auto manufacturers there is an arms race to equip their flagship models with the greatest amount of the most unique and "impressive" features just to cater to a group of buyers that all of that stuff still wows. Right now Tesla simply can't compete in the same way and for that reason will continue to struggle in that market.�
Jun 22, 2015
thebe Because in a lot of states, especially in Europe, dashcams are illegal. As in 10K euros fine kind of illegal. In Austria they are illegal too. And then should it be allowed, it still comes the part that the car's software does a heck of a lot of processing on those video frames to detect oncoming headlights, taillights in front of you, road signs, speed limits, pedestrians and possibly animals, things you'll be slamming into and who knows what else to help the TACC and other sensors during high/low speed driving or cruising. Saving those frames takes processing power away from all the above and takes time. A lot of time. No time to wait for such silly things as a dashcam when vital car systems need blitzing fast processing of that video feed. Get you greams in check, it will NEVER happen to end users be able to even touch that feed. Want a dashcam, get one. Tesla will NOT provide one (legal issues, as I mentioned). And before you start bashing me, yes, I do have a dasham in both my cars.�
Jun 22, 2015
Cyclone Not discounting that it's a tax on the processor to handle being a dashcam too, but the legal issues aren't a problem. In the U.S., daytime running lights are recommended, but not required. As such, Tesla lets owners turn them off if they so decide. In Canada, DRLs are mandatory. As such, the touchscreen does NOT allow for turning off the DRLs. If Tesla ever did implement a built-in dashcam option, they can cover the legal issues by forcing its disablement in certain countries. We have even seen posts that German Teslas aren't speed limited (or done so higher the U.S.-spec vehicles) while U.S. Vehicles are limited at 140 or 155 mph.�
Jun 22, 2015
thebe What my 2008 BMW coupe does and I like it is the auto-dimming headlights when there is oncoming traffic or when the public lighting is enough so that I do no need to drive with the high beam on. And this is based on the same front camera video feed that I was talking in the previous post. It even nicely detet when I catch up to someone driving slower at night and automatically dims my high beams. A lot of image processing at work there.�
Jun 22, 2015
kuttakamina The newest Tesla does that�
Jun 22, 2015
30seconds Great timing. I went an drove a Panamera GTS (with about $40k in interior upgrades) and a BMW M Grand Coupe yesterday. The gear shifting & lack of response was so incredibly annoying. There really isn't anything BMW or anyone else can do about that.
And OMG the Panamera buttons! Buttons everywhere - like they were getting them for free and didn't want to waste anything. However the leather everywhere (including leather air vent slats) with contrast stitching was really nice.�
Jun 22, 2015
Frankrb New 7 series............Impressive...................BUT it's still an ICE�
Jun 22, 2015
kuttakamina Exactly what I thought of the panamera too. Plus it looks ugly. Looks like a toad.
The interiors, minus the button madness, look plush. But I just can't get over it's ugliness. It must come with a free pair of crocs.�
Jun 22, 2015
Max* Agreed. I was surprised at how well it works in the Tesla.�
Jun 22, 2015
JER As someone who actually lives there, I have to say you're overstating the problem. Not to mention ignoring markets like Russia where they're pretty much mandated, and broad support from the insurance industry.
The two main reasons against dashcam legality:
One is obviously not a problem in a factory-fitted unit integrated into the mirror bracket. It's not a problem with third party installed systems or even Go-Pros with suction mounts either, so long as they're mounted sensibly and outside any mandated no-go areas.
- Obstructed view
- Privacy/surveillance
Two is typically a consent problem, especially with recorded speech in the car but also video of other road users in a few locations - notably Switzerland. They're fine in Germany so long as you don't publish them, e.g. on social media sites. (Did anyone tell Bj�rn about this?) As far as I'm aware everywhere else in Europe is fine, except the crazy place you already mentioned. Even in Austria, this is largely the result of data protection laws that had a longer reach than intended, or are being enforced beyond the point of reason.
Ideally, laws should be rewritten so consent to having your driving recording is implied when you take a vehicle on a public road, but in the meantime there's an obvious solution: Disable features when in territories where they're forbidden. With a car as well-integrated as the Model S, it will not be super-difficult to engineer a state change event in the relevant modules when the GPS reports you crossed an international border.
No kidding. I mused on that in this very thread: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/48823-New-7-series-bimmer-v-Model-S/page7?p=1043832#post1043832
To repeat the key point, we don't need the feed. If it's unsuitable or a tap cannot be engineered safely, just add another camera. It will cost maybe �5 extra to make, and use the existing housing, bus and power. The rear camera is already suitable.
As for processing resource shortages, the Tegra SOCs have hardware acceleration for video compression, presumably sitting idle. Perhaps the design forbids its use without compromising other resources the Tesla sofware needs, but without talking to a developer who works on the platform, I would hesitate to say so. In any case, it wouldn't be super-difficult or especially expensive to add a dedicated media processor.
What a depressing outlook you have.:tongue:
Even with your most pessimistic estimates, the Model S hardware is probably closer than any other production car to built-in dashcam capability. The legal issues are moot; disable it where it's illegal, until those jurisdictions gain some sanity.
This could've easily been part of v1 Autopilot. It will be quite a head scratcher if it's not in v2. Tesla is supposed to be a leader, helping bring about a better world. So let's do that.�
Jun 23, 2015
aus I'm impressed you called it a Bimmer and not a Beammer like most do.
The 7 is more money, but NO ONE buys them. They lease for $850-1,000/mo with minimal drive off on a car that's over $100,000.
As for the looks, that's all personal preference. Personally, I feel the MS is due for some updating soon. I know Tesla is busy with the X and 3, but this car is due for a mild refresh in the appearance department.
.�
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét