Thứ Sáu, 3 tháng 2, 2017

Leaked Model 3 specs 0-60 in under 4 sec and 300+ mile range part 1

  • Mar 30, 2016
    PaulRocket
  • Mar 30, 2016
    wilhelmspencer
    Good read but nothing earth shattering.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Kenypowa
    I'd say 300 mile range is earth shattering.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    mrounds
    PLEASE take my money already!!!
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    wilhelmspencer
    At the top end of the likely available specs this was somewhat to be expected though. And I wouldn't expect Tesla to have this battery size available right away.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    McRat
    If they can sell a 300+ EPA range car with sub 4-second power to weight, for under $80,000, and under 4000lb - I'm in.

    I don't care if it doesn't have back seats, or any wizbang features. I don't care if it lacks AC and radio. I'll buy it for performance.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    nwdiver
    If those specs are true; and ~$60k gets you a car ...

    - ~300 mile real world range
    - Autopilot
    - AWD
    - 0-60 <4s
    - Better Aesthetics than S or X

    .... the internet might break tomorrow
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Justified
    This could be pretty amazing If all those specs are true...I also think they will talk about the supercharging network and its plans to expand it at a faster rate. Might even talk about the service locations as well. I can be hopeful right? lol
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    mikevbf
    Tesla generally has only the largest battery size available at launch. So I would expect this to be true with the Model 3 too.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    TMS
    OMG!! If this is true, I will get rid of my P85D and buy a loaded model 3!! :cool:
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Trev Page
    Based on the wait but why blog post, Randy Carlson of Seeking Alpha thought experiment and some details we already know the specs sound about right. We know from Tesla historically that options pricing really push sales figures up quickly so the pricing doesn't surprise me in the least.

    As for the design, we'll see but I don't think Tesla will disappoint.

    Tomorrow we get to see the wizard hiding behind the curtains.

    image.jpeg
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    dieqast
    Elon always said Tesla's cars should be a better car than their ICE counterpart, so let's compare these top model specs to the competition:

    - MB C63 AMG sedan: 0-60 in 4.0 sec, �350 miles range, �65k
    - BMW M3: 0-60 in 4.1 sec, �320 miles range, �64k

    So the top end should be in that ball park.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    mkjayakumar
    From that electrek article...

    80 kWh will not get 300 miles. Usable capacity will be around 75 kWh will need an efficiency of 4 miles/kWh - very difficult at highway speeds.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    sports4eva115
    [?IMG]
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    erthquake
    Even if it's significantly lighter than an S or X?
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    nwdiver
    I predict we'll see 3 things tomorrow...

    - Rough Model 3 specs (obviously)
    - New 100kWh S/X and Gen II Model S
    - 2017 supercharger map

    pins and needles :)
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    ItsNotAboutTheMoney
    For reference, the i3 is rated at 0.3kWh/mi highway _wall to wheel_. At 90% efficiency, that'd be 0.27kWh/mi battery to wheel. Since the EPA highway rating test speeds are low, so there's more bias to weight, and I would doubt that the Model 3 weight will be very low.

    But note that in good conditions, my Gen 1 Volt (curb weight 37nn lbs) with about 10.5kWh usable, can comfortably do 42 miles on a highway drive. So, 0.25kWh/mi highway battery-to-wheel is not totally out there.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    DaveGee
    Just stopped by our local Tesla Motors shop AND BOUGHT .... well just a hat.... BUT it's a really cool hat! :)
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    DaveGee
    dave.jpg
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    shrspeedblade
    My Volt can do that, but probably only at 55mph not 65mph. Weight matters. (I'll still swap for your Model S lol!)

    I want to believe those numbers are true. I don't. But I want to. Well, it definitely doesn't change my plan to go stand in line tomorrow morning. ;)

    It's amazing that more hasn't leaked yet. They must have a crucifixion order on at Tesla or something.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    McHoffa
    I'm more interested in a 2017 service center map than more superchargers. Plenty of those along the routes I would travel, but the nearest service center is nearly 3 hours away (also where I'm reserving mine tomorrow)
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Audrey
    Electrek is run by the same group that does 9-to-5 Mac � a site known for reliable information leaks. I think this article has good credence. I want all of it to be true in my heart, but not true in my wallet. Ugh.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Quant
    Just move !
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Rashomon
    The M3 should be the most aerodynamic car since the EV1. Its effective frontal area, I'm betting, will be around 0.45 meters-squared, not quite as good as the EV1 or the VW XL1, but closer than almost anything else. With weight reduction and almost 25 percent lower drag than a MS, it should require substantially less power -- I'm estimating 15kW delivered will propel it at 75 mph. A 70kWh battery will give it a greater than 300 mile EPA range. I wouldn't be surprised if pack sizes came in 50 kWh and 65 kWh for the low and high end options, though they may be a little bigger, perhaps 55 kWh and 70 kWh.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    pinski
    I'll look forward to seeing you there! I'll be in my obnoxiously loud BRZ, hoping to get there about an hour before they open up.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    wallet.dat
    Meh. I was hoping the Model E would put down a sub-3.0 second 0-60. Under 4.0 is right around where the M3/M4 is (3.8 sec). And I really really hope that line about "it looks like a smaller hybrid of the Model X and S," is wrong because the X has all the appeal of a Pontiac Aztek for me.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Justicepool
    I fully expect to pay around 70K for a fully loaded Model 3. That's about the same price increase for a fully loaded Model S (doubles the base price). The article says the source claims the model 3 is: �sexy and sporty� and �It seems so right�. I hope that is true!

    However, I don't understand how it could be a cross between the X and S and still leave room for the Model Y (unless the source is referring to the nose cone or lack thereof).
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    HookBill
    This one ranks right up there with SC for me. Without more of these, another choke point will raise its ugly head. There was word Tesla was going to open a new SvC about 2 miles from me and 20 miles south of the existing Costa Mesa location. Nothing yet but I am hoping the opening will coincide with the M3 production. Heaven knows more are needed.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    zambono
    If the numbers are anywhere near true at the price, than the Model S better get a sizable update if it's going to start at $70k. Many purchased Model S's because there wasn't a smaller sized option, I am in the camp where the Model S is larger than what I need or desire in a vehicle.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    S'toon
    The car under the sheet has a bigger frunk than what I was expecting, by my estimation
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Bokonon
    I wouldn't rule it out. My e-Golf gets 4.0-4.5 mi/kWh cruising on a flat highway at ~65 mph in temperate weather. Yes, the Model 3 will be a little heavier, but it will likely have a better Cd, so I think 4+ mi/kWh at highway speeds will be achievable. I expect the combined EPA efficiency to come in around around 4 mi/kWh as well, so a hypothetical 80-kWh battery should be awfully close to 300 miles EPA.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    McHoffa
    In Charlotte? I'll be either driving my Honda Fit with fading paint, or I'll be riding in with a friend.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    2virgule5
    Amen
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    pinski
    Ah, I don't know why, but I assumed you'd also be headed to the Raleigh store. Good luck with your reservation!
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    SCW-Greg
    This just posted by DailyMail UK...

    Elon Musk�s affordable Tesla specs leaked: New $35,000 Model 3 will go from 0-60 in under 4 seconds and have 300 mile range
    • Source also said it will be a smaller hybrid of the Model X and S
    • Will be 20% shorter than the S, placing it in same segment as Audi A4
    • The first Model 3s are to be delivered by 2017 in US, and 2018 in Europe
    • The car will be unveiled tomorrow at 11.30pm ET Hawthorne, California


    Elon Musk�s affordable Model 3 specs have been leaked
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    rolosrevenge
    This sounds very promising.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    timf
    There's no way the $35,000 version will go 0-60 in under 4 seconds. That will only be the high-end model that will cost twice as much.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    SCW-Greg
    I wouldn't be so sure. The motor is the easy (relatively affordable ) part, especially when you consider shedding a lot of weight (smaller car, etc). But yes, they may offer it in different motor capabilities too.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    JimmyAZ
    I tend to agree. You wouldn't give the bulk of the consumer market 'super car' performance. You'd create the Honda Accord of electric cars and offer a few options. There's no way a grandma who's ready to go electric is going for a base model that runs 0-60 in 4 seconds. That model lineup would be seriously flawed.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Borgholio

    Anybody else reading between the lines that only the higher-end cars will have the autopilot?
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    TEG
    I used to be concerned that Tesla was offering so much performance to people not used to performance cars. Many people bought Roadsters and Model S for the longest range EV, and not because of quick acceleration. I was concerned that people would be "crashing them all over the place" due to the quick acceleration, and lack of drama when doing so. But it appears that crashes are few and far between, and I have more respect for the average driver's ability to control a vehicle that has that capability. I think it helps that the computer controls keep the car from spinning the tires and sliding out of control. Quick acceleration is great for all as long as the car stays in control.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    mikevbf
    My concern with the statement about autopilot is that it is only "on the level of the S and X" when I am hoping the Model 3 will have the next generation hardware for full autonomy making it ready once the software and legal aspects are ironed out. However, I think the article is written with more confidence than facts so I take the details with a grain of salt.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    tga
    Don't panic. This all came from a translation of a German article. Who knows what got lost in the process.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    RobStark
    I am wagering it is a smaller Model S with a Model X type nose(smaller) instead of the MS nosecone.

    The proportions can't be the same as MS because it would kill backseat headroom. So it will be a relatively tall vehicle vs length x width compared to MS.

    To the layman that equals a hybrid of MS and MX.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    nwdiver
    The sensors are so cheap... it's the R&D that's expensive. Every X and S has the same sensor suit... it just costs extra to activate it. Pretty sure the 3 will come equipped too.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    SureValla
    half that article is about the safety AI will bring to cars. There is no way it doesn't have AP
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    mikevbf
    My understanding is the current hardware in the Model S and X is an older generation that is adequate for autopilot, but not autonomous driving. Many expect the Model 3 to have autonomous driving hardware. So the question for me is not if the Model 3 will have hardware for autopilot, but if it will have the hardware for autonomous driving.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    jbcarioca
    Keep in mind that your BMW and MB prices are the base or those cars. Both of them top out fully optioned at roughly $100,000. Somehow everyone is low-balling the competitors pricing by using option-free for the ICE and assuming Teska will have fully-options at that base. They will not do that, IMHO. Tesla has never been shy about option prices nor have they undercut ICE competitors. Why would they start doing that?
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    thefortunes
    I have driven my Roadster over 49k miles and my overall average is 4.02 mi/kWh. That is in WI where we have COLD and SNOW which greatly impact efficiency.

    Over 80% of my miles are highway (typically 70-75mph), and I can easily run >3.8 mi/kWh at that speed. This morning on my 27 mile commute I used 5.5kWh for a smooth 4.9 mi/kWh (with a nice tailwind).
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    nwdiver
    I'm confident that if any cars have it then all cars will have it. Tesla has shown that they place a high priority on streamlined production. They were willing to put an extra 20kWh in a pack and sell it as a 40 just to prevent the headache of an additional battery size.

    As to wether autonomous driving is ready in late 2017? IMO 50/50...
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    dieqast
    Ah yes, I meant the price of the PxxD version excluding options.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    ggr
    I agree. My ex-boss, who I've been trying to talk into a Tesla, is actually afraid of that kind of performance.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    cbin97
    I am hoping for a $75k+ version that will a be sub 3 second GTR killer.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    SCW-Greg
    Jeesh! This is such a lame argument.
    How often do we go out and flat out MASH the pedal at every green light, or in bumper to bumper traffic? All of us here know, as with any new car we buy (get in to) and drive, that each performs a little different... and we adapt. The Tesla's are no different. The pedals are not explosively twitchy, by any means.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Kurt Foster
    300 mile range is definatly with the higher priced models... I know its obvious, but just thought id take a crack at it.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    Petra
    Don't forget about the power delivery limitations of smaller battery packs... If Tesla is to be believed, the 1s 0-60 difference between the S70D and S85D is purely due to battery limitations, the motors are the same.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    mikevbf
    There are at least 3 major aspects to attaining an autonomous driving car:
    1) hardware sensors,
    2) software,
    3) legal approval

    Elon and other top engineers at Tesla are on record saying the Model S and X do not have right hardware for autonomous driving. Elon has said that software wise cars will be smart enough in only a couple of years which coincidentally lines up with the timing of the Model 3 launch. However, many would side with you that software will take longer.

    The main point here is without 1) the right hardware sensors, 2) software and 3) legal approval will not matter. So my hope is they will put the hardware in so when the software and legal side things are ready so will the Model 3.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    GKwey
    I just have my S85D for 4 weeks and loving it every minutes and believe I have found the car of my life (or the car that complete my life). So please please no Model S killer tomorrow.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    2virgule5
    ... which is what I was thinking of my classic S85 before they introduced Autopilot and AWD...
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    infeza
    If those numbers are right - especially 0-60 in under 4 seconds. Holy-moly am I going to be a happy camper! That's faster than my Twin Turbo 370z D:

    Definitely going for the AWD + performance model
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    anxman
    I think the largest battery option on the Model 3 will offer sub 4 second times but not the base model. I don't believe a performance model will be announced tomorrow because it would draw attention away from the affordability of the Model 3. On the other hand, announcing a new top end performance version of the Model S would make sense to highlight the huge price delta of products that Tesla will now offer.

    Just saw this on Twitter: Elon Musk on Twitter

    This would jive with what I'm thinking. Tesla will focus design and the price tomorrow and say that the car is "autopilot equipped" without further exposition of the sensor suite. They aren't ready to announce the sensors yet because the sensor team is still figuring out what the car will actually end up shipping with.

    Strategically thinking, I think Tesla made a huge mistake in announcing autopilot a year before it shipped. Had they waited until it was in consumer's hand, it would have given them a HUGE leg up over the competition -- which would be left scrambling to catch up.

    In this case, I predict that Tesla will unveil "autopilot 2.0" at the Part 2 Model 3 reveal in 18 months which will go far beyond its current set of capabilities.
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    vinnie97
    Just hope a "barebones" configuration with the biggest battery option will cost WAY under $60k...
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    ggnykk
    I bet that they will not release all the good news at once. You get to spread out the hype/news to keep the excitement going. What are they going to release in the next 2 years if they announce everything tmr?
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  • Mar 30, 2016
    ggnykk
    The math most likely will be like this based on the pricing now. $35k base + 5k AWD + 13k bigger battery - 7.5k tax credit = $45.5k which is under your $60k threshold.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    ggnykk
    BMW's M4 only achieve 4.2 second to 60mph in real world. Motor Trend Magazine's Youtube channel just had a review on this literally yesterday.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    ggnykk
    It is more than just hardware sensors. You also need a super-computer inside the car to do live processing/understanding of images/video for deep learning.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    1208
  • Mar 31, 2016
    tomsky
    Really? This made me discard the whole "leak". If it means what i think it means the "source" doesn't know a thing about Tesla.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    anxman
    The next-gen MobileEye system sounds like it is basically a supercomputer -- combine it with cloud-based data crunching and I think we could see Level 3 autonomous on the Model 3.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    Laserbrain
    The M4 does 0-100 kph (0-62 mph) in 4.1 seconds in real life without rollout BS and 0-200 kph in 13.5 seconds.

    So going from 0-60 mph and adding Motor Trend's rollout BS, you should be well under 4 seconds.



    If the Model 3 can reach this, this would be awesome!
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    SCW-Greg
    I missed that tidbit.

    Yeah upon rereading the article, there really isn't anything that is a stretch here or I obvious, particularly when you think about where advancements will take the car's specs in 18 months or so.

    I'd expect these things, even a range approaching 320 miles.

    Of course feature laiden versions will be one thing, vs the stripped down version at $35k. Loaded versions will probably be knocking on $60k.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    b0r3dguy
    It would be VERY awesome if even base Model 3 can reach this 0-60 time considering it'll be more than half the price of a BMW M4. *excited* :D
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    tomsky
    It's not what i thought (i read hybrid as in Prius hybrid), it's a hybrid design between S and X. In order to give the same headromm as in S, they couldn't reduce the overall height of the car so, design wise, it looks like a smaller X (shorter and narrower but same height as an S). McHoffa posted something like this: [?IMG]

    To me, it looks like the proportions are the same as the one from blanket covered "leak" (minus the trunk and with some tweaks in front)
    [?IMG]
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    Model 3
    1. Model Y
    2. Model S 1.5
    3. RoadsterNG
    4. Model X 1.5
    5. Model Truck
    6. Model �ber
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    zambono
    Don't expect to see any tax credits on a 3, anyone including that in their math is delusional. Tesla likes to claim delivery of a vehicle in a certain year but that might be a total of like 10, example model X.

    They essentially have a year and a half to update hardware from announcement till delivery, the 3 should have better tech including battery, AP, motors just because they have had all that extra R&D time.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    tomsky
    I'll bet the house that these will happen (NG Roadster was hinted months ago, Model Y was confirmed by Elon in a tweet and S needs a refresh this year to milk the cow untill Model 3 deliveries starts).
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    sandpiper
    Really not a fan of this nose. It looks slightly like an angry shark, ready to consume small children. I think it will be a bit more rounded. The rest of the car is nice... if a bit generic.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    Az_Rael
    LOL, I wouldn't count your chickens until they hatch. ;) We won't find out anything real on options pricing until 2017 I would guess. I seriously doubt the $35k model will be the model with the 300 mile range battery.

    There will be a $35K Model 3. There will be a 300 range Model 3. They will not be the same car based on past history even if that is implied during tomorrow's reveal. I've been down this road before with the "$50k Model S".
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    ggnykk
    Doesn't look like your data is based on GPS. Motor Trend use high precision Vbox for all their performance test and they test it on the same place every time. Who knows if that video is running down the highway on a slope or something. Also, 4.1 seconds with roll out (as reported from Motor Trend) means 4.4 seconds for the real 0-60 mph.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    swengl
    If the Model 3 has as steel frame, that will add weight. The smaller size means that the added weight *might* be a wash compared to the S. We would have to assume that there's a new (or updated) battery pack that is lighter with at least equal (if not higher) capacity to get over 300 miles in the 3. If that were the case, I would think both the 3 and the S will get the pack, when production starts on it.

    I agree, the service centers will need to double (and spread out more) to handle the number of Model 3s that Tesla wants to sell. If they allow the 3 to Supercharge, they will need to expand that network, as well. I'm sure the folks at Tesla have considered all of this and have a plan to execute prior to the actual delivery of 100K+ additional EVs. The sheer number of SuperChargers built in the last year indicates that they are hitting their stride in terms of installations.

    One of the measures of success for Tesla will be customer satisfaction not only with the car, but the support network as well. If they pull that off, let the revolution begin ;)
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    Laserbrain
    I do not trust Motor Trend's measuring abilities because they produced a quartermile measurement of the Tesla P90DL, which not a single person in the world is able to reach. Who knows what they are doing... but Motor Trend is not a trustworthy source.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    SageBrush
    Weight is a second order effect when talking about highway fuel economy (and therefore range.) It comes down to CdA, speed, battery capacity and tyre choice.

    The ? will likely have the same Cd, tyres, and speed choices as the MS, so battery capacity and frontal area are the differentiating factors compared to the numbers we know with a MS. I use a rule of thumb that says that aero resistance is about half the total Wh/mile at 70 mph
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    Trel27
    I want the AWD option. I'm gonna be eating tons of sandwiches for a few years. LOL
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    Rashomon
    The ? will almost certainly not have the same Cd as the S -- Tesla has great CFD and simulation capabilities, as does SpaceX, as their modeling and control of the booster recovery has demonstrated. There is no way that Tesla will do a new vehicle without lowering Cd. Just look at the aero package for the roadster. If they were doing the S over again, it would be better, because Tesla engineering capabilities are almost certainly better. On a model S, aerodynamic drag is more than 60 percent of the load at 70 mph, and that's with average tire rolling resistance. It goes to a full 2/3 at 75 mph because of the cube power relationship between drag and speed. You can't be involved with EVs and EV modeling without becoming somewhat obsessive with aerodynamics. Tesla can improve efficiency in so many areas: aerodynamics, inverter, motor (motors), tires, that anyone who believes that the ? will require similar power to the S is fooling themselves. Michelin just announced that they were given a tire brief by Tesla for a custom tire with exceptionally low rolling resistance for its other characteristics. This is the type of thing that Tesla couldn't conceive of doing when the S was released, but the volumes (and promised volumes) are there now to get impressive suppliers to design custom components. The S and X will themselves get better as improvements are made. Keep in mind the ? won't be released for two more years, and there's time to get new technologies in. It will likely have wide-band-gap semiconductors in its inverter, which could halve losses there. It will have exceptionally low rolling resistance tires that still corner. I stand on my prediction that the base battery pack size will be much smaller than most people on this forum, who are extrapolating from MS performance, are expecting. That's the best way to hit the price target and maintain margins.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    hoang51
    I would also be happy too. Turbos on gasoline powered cars will be obsolete. No need to "tune" for higher performance. Just buy straight from the factory with awesome performance.
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    hoang51
    Wow, that's a luxury over instant noodles...
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  • Mar 31, 2016
    vinnie97
    So AWD will be required for the biggest battery, you suspect? I'm not relying upon the credit. Man, that battery price speculation...go go gigafactory!
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