May 17, 2016
drewfaulk The price on the Karstyle Facelift (Facelift) was reduced to $2,500 from $3,500 on their website sometime today. The price seems pretty reasonable considering it includes painting it to match. They recommend having a body shop install it, although it should be a relatively easy Saturday morning job for those who are handy with tools. The reservation amount was also reduced from $1,500 to $500. It was enough to temp me into taking the plunge, so I'll let everyone know how it comes out if I actually receive in in August.�
May 17, 2016
bkp_duke Very tempting indeed. My used MS should be here in about 10 days.
This could make for a great weekend project.
I wonder if this has any bearing on the coefficient of drag on the car, since I believe that was rumored to improve on the updated version. Perhaps that was just on the Model 3.�
May 17, 2016
drewfaulk Congratulations on your MS! Great question about the drag coefficient. Hopefully it's not worse.�
May 17, 2016
bkp_duke Thanks, I'm very excited to finally join the "club".�
May 18, 2016
artsci Thanks for the news. I already paid the $1,500 deposit so I assume I'll owe only $1,000 more.�
May 18, 2016
artsci Tesla's OEM facelift reduce the drag a bit. This one appears to be almost the same.�
May 18, 2016
drewfaulk I'm sure you're right. I was just concerned that the black area surrounding the front Tesla badging appears to be recessed; it seems like it would create a "scoop" that traps air and creates drag. I have not seen a refreshed Model S firsthand, but of the photos I've seen of the factory Tesla facelifted bumper, it appears this same black area is flush with the rest of the bumper, making it more aerodynamic. All of this is based solely on my observation of the pictures, and I acknowledge I could be completely wrong about it.�
May 18, 2016
artsci The Tesla face lifted bumper has the same open area surrounding the T, so that's not a factor.�
May 19, 2016
drewfaulk That's great. I spent an hour staring at photos trying to determine if they were both recessed and almost talked myself out of the facelift. Glad to hear they're the same.�
May 19, 2016
AnOutsider I was curious about drag savings as well. If there isn't any, I'll stick with my classic nose�
May 19, 2016
dark I have email karstyle couple of times with no response, regarding order time, and deliver cost. Not sure if I can trust this company until I see that they can actual deliver.�
May 19, 2016
Twiglett sometimes drag is counter intuitive - like a pickup being better aerodynamically with the tailgate up because it helps create an air pocket behind the cab. I would bet the scoop with no rear holes has no more drag than a blank panel.�
May 19, 2016
calisnow Not a bad price at all since it includes painting - I'm curious to see how they turn out. Tempted myself.�
May 19, 2016
drewfaulk I
It's the Coriolis effect. That certainly could be the case that it is more aerodynamic because of it, but it's hard to imagine it having less drag than if it were smooth all the way across like the Model 3 front bumper. I wouldn't think it would make a huge difference either way, so I'm going to just enjoy mine when it comes in and stop worrying about it
�
May 19, 2016
Da0ne nice now im very tempted just have to figure out a way to put the front plate�
May 19, 2016
bkp_duke Magnets?�
May 19, 2016
Da0ne good idea although i dont think it will hold up the ezpass also�
May 19, 2016
Ben W I'm strongly considering getting this facelift for my Signature Model S. I wrote to the company with three questions:
1. Is the modification reversible? (e.g. if I sell the car and the buyer prefers the original look, or if the new face gets scraped up in a fender bender)
2. The earliest S'es had a slightly different nosecone than later ones; does this affect the compatibility of the new facelift?
3. Can they do it in Signature Red?
Also (just occurred to me), how does this modification affect access to the tow hook, which I believe is under the original nosecone? (Or the 12v jumpstart connections, though that's less critical.) I'll post if/when I hear back the answers!�
May 19, 2016
dabbler I wonder if this type of modification will have any impact on the warranty. And I also wonder how one would access the remote 12vt battery posts that are located behind the nose cone.
I would consider this upgrade regardless the effect it may have on resale value.�
May 19, 2016
JeffC It may have less drag. Any opening in the bodywork creates drag as the air flows through it, and also when it passes through the draggy interior of the "engine compartment" and heat exchangers on ICE cars. Having the air not flow through should be lower drag, even if the shape of the empty open area around the badge looks very draggy, like an empty cup pointing forward.
The empty cup will do a better job of stalling the air and may be more effective at splitting the airflow above and below that point. It seems counterintuitive to have a shape like that, but it may actually perform better in the overall context of airflow over the entire car.
Very likely the purpose of the new nose (on restyled S, but especially X and 3) which has a sharp upper edge and is tilted downward is to direct more of the airflow down away from the hood (bonnet) and around the sides of the car. This will reduce lift and possibly drag if it reduces airflow over the top of the car, since the upper surface of the car is shaped almost exactly like a wing, especially the greenhouse.
This may be especially important on Model 3 and probably why it has an even more upturned and tilted down nose, since it has a disproportionately large greenhouse. It's basically a huge wing. Less air over that huge wing should mean both less lift and less drag (since lift generates drag also).�
May 20, 2016
artsci That they don't answer email should be a concern for all of us. What kind of company doesn't respond to inquiries from customers or potential customers? My answer is one that should not be trusted, especially since it's a new one.�
May 21, 2016
artsci I contacted Karstyle about its unresponsiveness to emails. This is the reply I received -- very encouraging.
We have just discovered that due to a technical issue some of our support enquiries were being obscured from view in the database. Thanks for letting me know. We are Tesla crazy people and would never knowingly ignore enquires from customers or anyone else. As I type this email, I have a programmer working on the support issues, and we will have a new support email address linked to our database by Monday. We will also have a comprehensive FAQ page with a support link by next weekend. Again thanks for making me aware of our failures in the support department. We spend a lot of time designing our products and are horrified that we may have upset customers and potential customers.
In the meantime, if there is anything you want to know, just let me know
Kind regards
Eddie Gill
Founder � Karstyle�
May 21, 2016
Ben W If you have a way to reach him, could you point him to this thread? Perhaps Karstyle would like to join this conversation directly, to answer some of the questions being asked.�
May 21, 2016
artsci Will do.�
May 21, 2016
mdevp The owner is a video game designer w/30yrs experience. I believe he started Karstyle in Aug '15. Interesting.�
May 22, 2016
drewfaulk Is good to see some response from them. I had considered canceling my order after emailing them last week and never hearing back. When accepting deposits for products that don't exist yet, I'd think it would be especially important to be responsive to customers; otherwise, confidence in your ability to perform gets lost, and the venture fails before it ever gets started. Ponzi 101 stuff, really�
May 22, 2016
artsci I let Eddie know of our interest on having him or his associates at Karstyle observe and perhaps post on this thread. I sent him a link for that purpose.�
May 22, 2016
drewfaulk That would really be encouraging if they made themselves available here. It would tend to tamp down the speculation before it runs rampant.�
May 22, 2016
Mike K What about those of us without parking sensors/ Autopilot? All the pictures on their sight show no parking sensors so I wonder if they just drill them to spec.
$2500 for a painted bumper cover does seem like quite a deal though. I do prefer Tesla's bumper over this one though. This one has a line under the headlight that takes a distinct bend into the hood/ grill area whereas the Tesla brand bumper forms this bend with two straight lines that seem to intersect. It's a small detail but once I saw it it started to bother me enough where I'm not sure if I'd get this because of that.�
May 22, 2016
FlatSix911 That is a great looking bumper facelift! I am also considering upgrading to the new look on my classic Model S.
�
May 23, 2016
artsci It's pretty much the same as Tesla's.�
May 23, 2016
artsci Here's the latest response from Karstyle to my inquiry about fit and how well it matches Tesla's facelift.
There are a some very slight differences in our facelift when compared very closely to the new MS, but they are very small! It isn�t easy to tell, unless you know exactly what to look for. The facelift however, cannot be 100% identical to the new car because it wouldn�t fit the old one. We are trying to get it as close as possible. We will have new a MS in our possession early in June, and we will then fine-tune our design. I am certain that our bumper will be a perfect fit. We scanned the old MS some time ago, and we have made a near perfect 3D model of the car. Shortly, we will scan the new MS. We also have some serious experts working on the project, and the manufacturer we have chosen is currently working on projects for JLR, Bentley Bentayga and Nissan. We plan to post much more information about the product itself. I�ll keep you posted on this, and you can post this stuff in forums if you like? We also plan to show images and videos of the manufacturing process over the next couple of months to keep people informed of progress, and so they can see how the product is made.�
May 24, 2016
artsci Here's the latest from Eddie at Facelift:
The facelift will come fitted with sensor receptors, so you just need to un-plug the sensors from the nose cone and the old bumper and then plug them into the new facelift. It�s really easy and will take only a few minutes to do all of them. We will contact all reservation holders early in July to confirm the specification of the their vehicle. Then, the facelift will be built to the correct specification of the owners vehicle. As you know some cars have sensors, and some don�t.
Regards,
Eddie�
May 24, 2016
supratachophobia I can only see this worth it if they have actual numbers to backup an increase in range. Specifically at or near what the factory fascia improvements make.�
May 25, 2016
FlatSix911 Has Tesla announced any range improvements to the 70/D with the new fascia?�
May 25, 2016
J1mbo Absolutely loving this! Just a bit curious as to how you would access the battery posts that are hidden behind the nosecone on the older MS?�
May 25, 2016
artsci I'll ask Eddie that question and see what he says.
On the drag coefficient, as Karstyles face lift is essentially the same as Tesla's with only minor details that are different, I'm assuming that it will be the same or very close as Tesla's. Tesla claims an improvement with the facelift.�
May 25, 2016
artsci This is Eddie's response to the drag coefficient and battery post questions:
Hi Rick,
The aerodynamics of our facelift should be almost identical to MS2 as we are closely emulating the aerodynamic curve of the new Tesla facelift. Of course, we will test it out to see what results we get. To be honest, I doubt there will be any noticeable difference in aerodynamic performance between the old Tesla nose cone and the new facelifted version. On paper maybe, but I wouldn�t expect to see any noticeable improvement in mileage.
We will provide an extension or access to the charging post. We haven�t decided which way to go yet, but I�ll be sure to let you know sometime in June when the design is finalised. Ditto license plate issues.
Regards,
Eddie�
May 25, 2016
bkp_duke This is good news. It leaves just the question of how to tow the car if you need to, without of course taking off the bumper.�
May 25, 2016
supratachophobia Well yes. They are saying the 90D is rated at 294 EPA.�
May 25, 2016
FlatSix911 Tesla has published new EPA numbers for the P90/90D, but no change to 70/70D?
One wonders if this increase is due to new 90D battery chemistry or aero changes to the fascia?
New Facelift Model S
Original Classic Model S
�
May 25, 2016
JeffC Investors Business Daily interpreted Tesla to be indicating that the 90D range difference is due to the EPA using the 85 kWh pack numbers, i.e., something like a clerical error:
Tesla Model S Electric Car Gets EPA Range Boost To 294 Miles
"�We just changed the numbers today to reflect the current EPA rating,� Tesla spokeswoman Alexis Georgeson said by email in answer to IBD�s query."
About which IBD interpreted: "The prior 270-mile EPA range came from testing on an older Model S with an 85-kWh battery pack, and Tesla used to note that the 90-kWh pack provided about 6% more range than that."
But also:
Official EPA Figures Reveal Tesla Model S 85D Is New Range King
"The results of testing were posted to the EPA site just days ago, following the release of a software update that allows �sleep mode� for the dual motor Teslas."
And:
Tesla Updates Range Of Model S Family, 85 kWh Cars From 253 (P85D) to 270 miles (85D)*�
May 25, 2016
FlatSix911 Very Interesting.
So it sounds like the EPA range increase is due to the 90 kWh battery pack and not the new fascia.�
May 25, 2016
supratachophobia And furthermore, it's only one 90kw pack to worry about since those delivered with the new fascia still have the same part numbers.�
May 25, 2016
JeffC The new front fascia may (or may not) improve the aerodynamics, but generally I'd expect it to make a minor difference. More likely that battery differences would explain more of the range differences.�
May 25, 2016
artsci I'll reach out to Eddie again for an answer to the towing question.�
May 25, 2016
FlatSix911 Easy problem to solve ... here is what Porsche uses to access the tow hook plug.
�
May 25, 2016
artsci Eddie tells me they're working on a towing hook solution and should have a fix by late June, at which time they'll announce details regarding all of the product features.�
May 26, 2016
Mike K I like it and $2500 is a steal if it really comes painted. I guess my only concerns are again the difference between the lines on this bumper cover and Tesla's. I know they say it can't be a direct match because the car is different but the only difference between the cars is curvature of the hood. So there's no reason the lines can't match.
My other issue is I have a pearl white car and I hear it's a bear to match. So I'm a little concerned with that. Either way they're going to sell a ton of these.�
May 27, 2016
jimtelsa Interesting pictures
they also show the White Model S with the painted rocker panels
The front with a painted lower air dam and a black version like the OEM
rWonder if they will have the rear bumper version�
Jun 7, 2016
spentan I'm really interested in a Signature red one for my old Model S Sig.
Not sure whether to spend more money on it tho, it already has 84k miles on it, and as much as I'd like to keep it, may be traded in for a model 3.
Lets see,�
Jun 10, 2016
Fusion If it comes with the sensors, most car even without sensors already have the input plugs. This would be a great update for people who just want front sensors.�
Jun 12, 2016
blee321 There simply should be no more discussion regarding this kit until someone puts it in a wind tunnel.
Can someone do that please? and post the data?�
Jun 12, 2016
mdevp First one's don't arrive till August end, I believe.�
Jun 12, 2016
bkp_duke A wind tunnel? Considering we are all (let's face it) buying this to look more like the MS revision 2, would "negative" results deter anyone?
Wind tunnel, what a waste of time. . .�
Jun 12, 2016
drewfaulk I'm with bkp on this. I can't say I'd be moved one way or the other based on wind tunnel results. I'm buying mine because I like the refreshed look.�
Jun 12, 2016
artsci Nobody uses wind tunnels any more -- it's all done with computer models.�
Jun 12, 2016
GaryREM I think this is wrong. A tremendous amount of work is done using simulations. However, wind tunnels are still being used to validate designs and test things simulation software cannot (e.g. wind noise).
Designers use new tricks, and the wind tunnel�
Jun 12, 2016
Ben W Part of the reason for the new front design on the Model S refresh was to improve the drag coefficient relative to the original nosecone. So I would have to believe that a modification intended to mimic the refreshed design would also be likely to improve the drag coefficient, or at least not make it measurably worse. But it would be instructive to hear if Karstyle has done any tests regarding this, real or simulated. They could easily simply take two identical cars, put the new front end on one of them, and take them for a long fast drive together. Then swap the front ends and drive back. That ought to answer the question pretty convincingly.�
Jun 13, 2016
artsci That's a very good solution.�
Jun 15, 2016
Reekdog just saw this from Unplugged, it incorporates their aggressive front spoiler but does not come painted.
Unplugged Performance | Unplugged Performance Refresh Front Fascia System�
Jun 15, 2016
UnpluggedP There is a painted option for our Refresh Front Fascia for an additional charge. We typically recommend unpainted parts as they are easier to transport and install. Painted parts can be damaged in transit and when installed by a body shop most shops will test fit a piece (Front Fascia in this case) make adjustments, then remove and paint. Test fitting and making adjustments to a painted part allows for damage to occur in the process. Paint match is also best achieved when the Fascia is mounted to the car as its possible to mismatch paint color with pre painted parts�
Jun 15, 2016
FlatSix911 Looks good ... a bit more aggressive than the OEM Tesla bumper
�
Jun 15, 2016
Fusion Hot dang.... decisions decisions.....�
Jun 15, 2016
UnpluggedP Thank you! Here's another image
�
Jun 15, 2016
Vitold ![[?IMG]](https://unpluggedperformance.com/wp-content/uploads/UP_REFRESH_ELECTRIC.jpg)
From the same site. This one looks better but it's likely not what you get.�
Jun 15, 2016
Fusion Did Karstyle just get hijacked?? LOL
Either way Unplugged: is there a option for license plate mount? I don't plan to put one but in California you gotta put one to fix that ticket.�
Jun 15, 2016
UnpluggedP No intention of highjacking we created a thread before this was posted.
Vendor - Unplugged Performance Refresh Fascia Upgrade
Teslas license plate frame will work�
Jun 17, 2016
mdevp Don't know if I'm a fan of that flaring at the bottom, maybe it'll grow on me.�
Jun 17, 2016
paul7200 Anyone with a Karstyle deposit recieved an update as to delivery timing? I prefer the Karstyle version with the less aggressive angles but perhaps it would grow on me. Timing is a consideration as well, I want to replace my old school nose cone like yesterday.
I also note with Karstyle you need to use your existing bumper skirt, whereas Unplugged replaces the entire bumper. Not an issue for me as I painted my skirts anyway, but might be a consideration for some.�
Jun 18, 2016
FlatSix911 Good design considerations ... here is a visual comparison.
�
Jun 19, 2016
playoutside I played around with some images to make it easier to compare the front fascias (fasciae?). Thought I would share.�
Jun 19, 2016
drewfaulk Thanks for sharing this. I think it convinced me to stick with my Karstyle reservation.�
Jun 19, 2016
tinm Karstyle looks great. Unplugged looks like a kit car.�
Jun 19, 2016
FlatSix911 Well done!
![[?IMG]](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/attachments/image-jpeg.181546/)
�
Jul 6, 2016
mnewman My random thoughts/answers:
1) It should be. The Karstyle site indicates that the new bumper is attached using the standard mount-points. I see no indication that you wouldn't be able to remove this and re-install the stock bumper.
2) Website says that it fits cars from 2012-2015, which would include the Signature models with the split nosecone. I would guess that the Karstyle kit would fit those as well. The differences were only cosmetic - the actual black nosecone was in 4 parts instead of 2.
3) Now that's a good question!
4) I think I saw a cutout/pop-out for the tow hook.
Let us know if you find more answers!�
Jul 10, 2016
blee321 Does anyone know when the KARSTYLE willl ship?
+1 for Karstyle...�
Jul 27, 2016
bkp_duke Bump, nearing August now when they said first shipments should go out.
Any news?�
Jul 27, 2016
blee321 bump any info?�
Jul 28, 2016
artsci This from the source: There will be a big update to Karstyle's website in about two-weeks� time. It will show how the bumper was developed, and the teams and processes involved. It will also explain how issues such as the battery access and towing eye were dealt with. Shipping is likely to occur in September but all of that info will be available on the updated web site.�
Aug 4, 2016
drewfaulk As our nosecone parking sensors are black, for those of us without black paint, I assume we are going to have two black circles in the middle of our bumpers once we install the facelift. Anyone have thoughts as to an easy way to address this?�
Aug 4, 2016
FlatSix911 This might help ... Tesla � Model S Touch-Up Paint�
Aug 4, 2016
drewfaulk Thanks. My experience with touch up paint is that it usually looks worse that whatever I'm trying to cover up. Also, as the sensors presumably operate off of radar (and assist with the autopilot), I'd be afraid to put on something as thick as touch up over them. Any other ideas?�
Aug 4, 2016
swegman Take the sensors to a Tesla authorized body shop and have them paint the sensors to match the color of your car. Thats what I did when I retrofitted the Tesla parking assist sensors to my car. Cost was minimal.�
Aug 4, 2016
drewfaulk I'll do that. They'll be the ones doing the install more than likely. I was just thinking about doing it myself, and didn't want to have to wait for them to paint the sensors, because my car would be disassembled in the meantime (assuming they painted them off the car, which I'd prefer, to avoid overspray). Maybe Karstyle could offer an option to include the two middle parking sensors since they're paining the bumper anyway? In any case, thanks to all who responded.�
Aug 6, 2016
ALLMYNE I just sent a note asking:
1) where is the radar located in the front bumper?......will it have the same distinct square-ish look
2) do these bumpers ship from the UK or here in the US
3) any shipping date updates
4) cost difference if shipped primed and not painted�
Aug 6, 2016
drewfaulk Great. Please let us know what you hear. I'm looking forward to the forthcoming website updates as well.�
Aug 6, 2016
claudelaval a thousand unless you bought it at the old price and already accept it. If Karstyle is a reputable company they will do you good.�
Aug 17, 2016
Skione65 @artsci,
Any update on this project? Also anyone know the current hourly rate at a Tesla approved body shop?
Ski�
Aug 17, 2016
drewfaulk The hourly rate at my local Tesla approved body shop is $125.�
Aug 17, 2016
Skione65 @drewfaulk,
Thanks.....I figured it was about $150-160.
Ski�
Aug 17, 2016
Skione65 Anyone get an estimate on shipping for this thing from the UK? Or will Karstyle have U.S. Based distributors for this?
Ski�
Aug 18, 2016
drewfaulk I figured the same. Surprisingly, the time I used them (to install the door panel tethers for a next gen seat retrofit), they charged me their regular rate of $85/hour. I guess what they were doing didn't really require a Tesla specialist, so they didn't think they could get away with charging the higher rate (charging more to remove and reinstall a door panel in a Tesla than they would on a Mercedes would be like a plumber charging more to unclog a Kohler toilet than an American Standard). In any case, I'm going to have them price installing my Karstyle retrofit, and I'll post here with the quote.�
Aug 18, 2016
Skione65 @drewfaulk,
So not including shipping I figure $3500 for the facelift. $2500 fascia, $500 for roughly the 4 hours labor and $500 to prep and paint to spec color. What are your opinions?
Ski�
Aug 19, 2016
drewfaulk I think your numbers are probably right on. I know when I ordered mine, the fascia was $2,500, and that included paint. I've since seen mention on their site of a primed or unpainted option, which was nowhere on the site when I placed my order; it was clear I was getting a painted bumper for $2,500 (even requiring my paint code to place the order). I'm not sure how they're pricing it if you choose to get it unpainted, but I would think it would be less than the $2,500.�
Aug 19, 2016
Skione65 @drewfaulk,
Good to know....I was under the impression the $2500 was unpainted, so great if that includes paint. I do know they recommend NOT getting it pre-painted as they say you're taking your chances with the "match" sight unseen and to have it painted 'on' the MS after install so it will be easier to match and match more closely.
Your probably right in that if you get it shipped 'unpainted' they may discount the price but maybe not.
Ski�
Aug 19, 2016
drewfaulk I've heard the same about parts that were painted off a vehicle not matching as well. For me, it's a trade off: I wouldn't do it if it had to be painted while on the vehicle because the paint would have to be blended into the surrounding panels, which affects resale value (an acquaintance of mine wholesales cars, and tests all cars with a paint thickness meter, rejecting those that have had any kind of paintwork). I don't think I could convince myself that spraying the whole front end of the car wouldn't negatively affect its value.�
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