Jul 24, 2016
Muzzman1 So long story short, our MX HVAC is inoperable. Went for a 2 hour drive here in LA, had it set to LO and the cabin never got colder than mid 80's. Outdoor Temp was Mid 80's.
I suspect our lines are crossed.
Unfortunately last week when I called the service center to have them check out the loud compressor sounds, they told me a loaner was a month away.
I REALLY hope they can resolve this before a month's time. My wife and 2 babies don't care much for the heat in the car.
I've sent an email to Local Service center, and ServicehelpNA. Anyone have any suggestions how I could get this escalated to have it resolved in less than a month?
After about an hour, I decided to turn off the HVAC, maybe the lines froze? After about 20 mins, turned it on again, still no cold air.
�
Jul 24, 2016
omarsultan I just had the same experience coming back from the Napa SC meetup. With the cabin temp set to 68 and an ambient temperature between 90 and 106F, even after 90 min, the cabin temp was 91F as reported by the Tesla app. I realize its hot outside, but after 90 min, the car should be able to pul the cabin temp down to something reasonable. When I got home, I used my IR thermometer to check the temp of the air coming out of the vents and it was in the 88F-90F range.
UPDATE
Just sent email to my SA with two concerns: 1) fixing the AC since my wife does not appreciate being baked in her own car 2) questioning if thermal management of the battery pack has been compromised. I'll report back on what he says.�
Jul 24, 2016
Bishop starting to think there was a bad batch of ac units or installs�
Jul 24, 2016
Maaz Yep same here literally no cold
Air today. Tried for over an hour. Luckily I have a service appointment set up at the Torrance service center this Thursday for the already long list of problems the car had at delivery. Many many fit and finish issues.�
Jul 24, 2016
aesculus There was one poster who claimed his AC shut down in the heat of the Mojave desert. When it got to service they stated it was overfilled with refrigerant and they took some out and all was OK. Easy fix when they found it so it appears.�
Jul 24, 2016
omarsultan Hopefully its something simple like that - its supposed to be 100F+ all week.�
Jul 24, 2016
Garlan Garner I can't believe I"m asking this but.....( as I cough......).... ( and choke )...couldn't ( ahemm) you guys rent....( cough, ahem ) an ICE for a week for the air?�
Jul 24, 2016
Muzzman1 Sounds reasonable, but it's going to be a month according to my SC.�
Jul 24, 2016
Garlan Garner Oh boy... a month. Back to ICE for a month. My apologies.�
Jul 24, 2016
omarsultan Just took the MX out for a test: ambient temp 87F, AC set to 69F, air coming out of vents is ~65F, so the compressor is not completely dead.�
Jul 24, 2016
Muzzman1 I'm willing to bet I will have the same result. I will go check. The car never gets used for long trips, my wife typically drives less than an hour when she's running around.
I would bet it's either overcharged or the lines are swapped.
I will let you guys know as soon as it's resolved.
Edit: I went out and had a look. Vent air is 105 Degrees. Compressor sound is gnarly gurgling sound of death.
Here's what it sounds like before the fans spool up at about 25':
Dropbox - Tesla HVAC.m4a�
Jul 25, 2016
Garlan Garner That's good news. Maybe you won't have to rent an ICE.�
Jul 25, 2016
omarsultan Well, we have the Model S as a "backup", so either way, I am not renting an ICE
�
Jul 25, 2016
omarsultan So, chatted with the folks at Rocklin this morning as I just happened to be dropping my Model S off for its annual spa day. They are going to check the car out next week (had a previously scheduled service appointment) to see if there is anything not working correctly, but the initial response was the vehicle was probably behaving as intended: prioritizing cooling for the battery pack over cabin temp.
High 90s and low 100s are par for the course around here during the summer (and apparently going to get more common) and my Model S handles them with aplomb. I would consider it a design #fail if the Model X cannot do the same.�
Jul 25, 2016
Garlan Garner Oh my, It must be nice. LOL.�
Jul 25, 2016
Garlan Garner Isn't that mandatory spa day expensive?�
Jul 25, 2016
hotrod HVAC died for me on my way back from SFO to San Diego. The service tech on the phone had me turn the power off from the console, wait 2 minutes and then restart the car. HVAC turned back on. No problems since then.�
Jul 25, 2016
omarsultan Yeah, we are lucky to be able to make that statement
Its not mandatory, and I pre-paid when I got my MS, so it works out to $450/year. I am a preventative maintenance kind of guy, so I am good with that.�
Jul 25, 2016
Garlan Garner That's not acceptable. Your car was probably over $70K. Do you have a service call scheduled?
I'm really trying my best to pull for Tesla, but this is not good.�
Jul 25, 2016
Muzzman1 I'm at the service center as I'm writing this. They suspect my compressor has failed based on the loud grinding sounds coming from it.
They say they have the parts to fix it. They hope to have it resolved today. If not tomorrow.
I will keep you all posted.
Luckily I have my MS but my wife isn't allowed to drive it.
If they don't have a loaner then she will be carless for a couple days at worst�
Jul 25, 2016
Garlan Garner Congratulations. Thanks for the info.
Wait - Your wife isn't allowed to drive it? TMI. That comment needs its own thread.
Keep us posted. THanks�
Jul 25, 2016
srini Are they kidding? Why didn't Tesla add a radiator to cool the battery pack ?
Sometimes I wonder if they did any of testing at all s before letting these loose on the beta testers�
Jul 25, 2016
X Fan My AC has worked well since taking ownership in early May. However, found out today from SC advisor that some AC lines needed to be re-routed since they had been installed properly. Recommend anyone taking vehicle for service to ask SC to check......
btw: have driven X in 100+ humid days on I95 and AC was terrific.....�
Jul 25, 2016
Garlan Garner Are you saying that you have a $70K+ car that is designed at times to not provide AC? Are you saying that they conveyed....the hotter the day - the less AC you will have? - by design?�
Jul 26, 2016
RobertGreenberg I've had the obligatory 'sorry we're cooling the battery, so you are going to be hot' message while supercharging in near 100 degree heat. I get this is 'normal'.
But Friday it was over 100 degrees in the San Fernando Valley. No message that it needed to cool the battery and strangely, the A/C would start to blow crazy hot (almost suffocating) air whenever the car stopped at a light or in traffic. I had to shut off the air and open the window whenever the car stopped it was so bad. When it was moving, it seemed to cool somewhat, but still not great.
Worked OK today, but it was not as hot.
Am wondering about the less cooling the hotter it is theory. Tesla is pulling logs.Any ideas?�
Jul 26, 2016
X Fan "Not installed properly" was what I meant.�
Jul 26, 2016
DrComputer There are two known issues with the Model X A/C that the service center should check. Here's what they wrote in the service notes.
Corrections: Cabin HVAC General Diagnosis
This MX was flagged as having High Refrigerant Discharger Pressure
(THC_w0253_rfrgDisPressHi warning). The discharge pressure can be high if the A/C
condenser lines weren't installed correctly.
Verified A/C lines are installed incorrectly at Condenser. Lines need to be swapped so
that the Compressor Discharge Line is mounted on the top of Condenser.
Corrections: Condenser
Removed and replaced condenser. Recharged AC system
Part Quantity
MX COOLING FAN MODULE (1031401-00-E) 1�
Jul 26, 2016
Muzzman1 To follow up:
Going to get the car back from service shortly. They had to replace the compressor. I will update once I read the paperwork to confirm or deny if the lines were crossed as well.�
Jul 26, 2016
Muzzman1 Edit: Lines were crossed as well.
�
Jul 26, 2016
K-MTG What is your VIN?�
Jul 26, 2016
omarsultan @Muzzman1 - thanks for providing the update--will be helpful when mine goes in next week.�
Jul 26, 2016
Garlan Garner Thanks for the update.�
Jul 26, 2016
Greg There are a number of X's including mine that had two lines crossed going into the compressor. My biggest compliant was that the car sounded like a jet engine with the fan at the front going crazy. My AC did work... so I thought. The car was so loud that it's embarrassing. After a number of complaints to the SC with the response that it is working as designed I saw a thread here about the issue. Finally someone got their noise issue fixed by having the lines corrected the noise level was totally acceptable/normal. I told my SC and they fixed the problem. When we drive down the street it does not sound like a jet approaching. A side benefit is the AC system works better than before. If your AC is having issues cooling the car I'd recommend having these lines examined to see if it was installed correctly.
Coincidentally my wife was driving the other day and saw another X right next to her. The window was down and she heard the jet engine of the other X as loud as can be. She was going to tell the driver that it is not normal and can be fixed, but the light turned green. Tesla really needs to track down all of the X's with this problem and get it fixed. It is really bad PR to have an electric car literally be the loudest car on the road!�
Jul 26, 2016
Muzzman1 Our Vin was just below 2000.�
Jul 27, 2016
aesculus If this is true Tesla needs to get a recall out ASAP.
I have had my X next to another and mine was quiet while theirs was beyond belief. They did have a full car (3+1) where I just had (1+1) but still. Also my car keeps me comfortable set at 75 unless I am facing the sun mid day, then I bring it down to 74. Sometimes 76 is comfortable, even on 100 degree days.
Another point: I have my rear air set to off unless someone is back there (rarely). I wonder what kind of impact that might have on the noise situation?�
Jul 27, 2016
Redmiata98 Mine is super loud when it starts out and then goes down in noise level a bit. We just finished a 700 mile trip from VA to Chicago and the outside temps were above 90. The cooling was adequate during the whole trip.
I had my X in for a malfunctioning charger port warning and asked them about the noise level on the air conditioning. They said that the noise level was "normal" as long as the cooling worked. I'll be monitoring the cooling level to make sure it continues cooling and live with the noise level until it stops cooling, for a while. My VIN is 00061 and if they had initial problems with the a/c in production mine might have been in the mix. It was hard to test it in the winter but now that summer is here, I suspect more than a few people MIGHT notice it. I am sure the noise problem will be fixed soon.�
Jul 27, 2016
omarsultan Hey @Muzzman1 - can you ask your service advisor if there is a specific service bulletin around the crossed condenser lines? It will make things a bit easier for the rest of us if we can point the SvC at something.
Thx (and no worries if you cannot)�
Jul 27, 2016
Muzzman1 I actually mentioned it to my service advisor as well as the tech that came over to do the initial assessment. They both were aware of the issue, and they made no mention of a TSB.�
Jul 28, 2016
srini That's awful!! Time to start a free hand fan campaign, like the free sunshades?
�
Jul 30, 2016
Ulmo I wonder if there is a spy camera on a stick angle the Service Centers can use to quickly probe for this condition to see if it was installed correctly to solve this frequent manufacturing error, or if there is a characteristic set of signatures in the logs or sensors that the computer could pick up and send in to the factory to send out targeted recall notices to the affected drivers, to make fixing this problem faster and less expensive for the company.�
Jul 30, 2016
joebob73 I got my car back from the service center yesterday and one of the items was to check on the crossed condenser lines. They checked the service bulletins and said that my VIN was not in the range. It is 001984 if someone is curious. I believe there are other cars near my range that are affected.
They also pulled the logs on the car and did not find issues and cooling effectiveness is pretty decent.
My car is still very loud when the AC kicks in and my energy usage driving back from the SC on a mix of freeway and local streets in 95 degree temps is about 390Wh/mile. High in my opinion.
Will have to keep monitoring this.�
Jul 30, 2016
K-MTG Curios what the VIN rage? Anyone with VIN around 57xx have this issue? Built early May�
Jul 30, 2016
Willy3988 My Vin is with in a few after yours 16xx. I was told the same story as you about three weeks ago. I took it in anyways as I was having a ghost obstruction on the driver FWD. took it in last Monday am with a appointment to replace the sensor. They checked the AC with out asking and now say they have to replace one on the lines and parts were needed. They said should be done on Monday. Still a great car!�
Jul 30, 2016
Muzzman1 Our white MX VIN is 1985!! Today did a 120mi drive round trip and had the similar efficiency. 20" wheels. Hot Socal day HVAC at 70. I did notice the fans run considerably less than they did before they swapped the lines.�
Jul 31, 2016
joebob73 Muzzman1, is your car loud after the lines were swapped?�
Jul 31, 2016
idoco My 57xx had AC issue but it was the condenser fan, not crossed lines.�
Jul 31, 2016
Muzzman1 Sorry that was a typo. They are much less loud since the swap.�
Jul 31, 2016
cmd_keen I too have been having A/C issues, loud blowing from fans and also now a "thumping" noise like some motor or pump turning on and off whenever the A/C is on... Perhaps that's the compressor???
My VIN is 38xx so I'd be interested in what the affected range is as well. I've already contacted my SC who said they would speak to the techs and call me back. I was told about battery charging and high speed reducing A/C to cool battery pack etc... I knew all that but the last few days have only been in the low 80s here in Chicago and still no a/c... And that's just driving lightly on local streets and 70 on the tollways.
So I'll call tomorrow again and report the poor performance again with the recent lower temps.
Question, does anyone know where to look to check if the lines are switched? This is a long shot, but as a dyi guy, does a service manual exist for and tesla vehicles?�
Jul 31, 2016
K-MTG What was the issue? Did your AC stop working? Worried about a upcoming road trip. My AC is loud and I hear a rumble when the car idles or drives at a low speed�
Jul 31, 2016
idoco Short version:
Worked fine when the car was moving. Did not work when the car was stationary.
Longer version:
According to the tech at the SC, if the condenser can't dissipate the heat the pressure in the system builds up and the AC compressor shuts down. While moving the airflow was sufficient to cool the condenser coils. But when stationary, without the condenser fan moving air through the condenser coils, pressure would build up and the compressor would shut down.
Fix was a few days and would have been shorter if the weekend hadn't prevented the part from arriving. Works fine since.�
Aug 1, 2016
ksquared Mine intermittently working too (more often not). Not completely dead, but temperature often well above setting. Scheduled for SC visit Thursday--will report back. My VIN 83**�
Aug 1, 2016
cmd_keen Drove to work today, despite the door latch issue and now the A/C is completely dead, hot air (hotter that the outside) coming from the A/C still with loud fan. So I resorted to windows down again.
As a suggestion for those in the same situation... I turned A/C manually off, but with the fan on at full blast, so I could at least get some "cool" (87 degree) outside air on the expressway...
SC is booked until next Wed., will also address the door latch issue along with some door alignment issues leftover from delivery at this time. Will update later, hopefully I get a decent loaner, if not an X, hopefully an S at least rather than an ICE vehicle.�
Aug 1, 2016
K-MTG That is horrible, what is your VIN? I have a road trip coming up and if the AC fails...I don't know what to say. Does the rear AC still work, since it is on a separate compressor?�
Aug 1, 2016
ohmman I'd contact them ahead of time (a few times if necessary) and let them know this is your expectation. I'm sure they can make it happen (the S, not the X), but if you don't push it, they'll put you in an Enterprise rental if necessary.�
Aug 1, 2016
cmd_keen Ohmman, thanks for the suggestion. I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Cpt. Sunshade ;-) Thanks for reminding me that I still have to ask for my sunshade!
VIN 34xx, 90D with about 1200 miles on it.
The rear A/C also does not work... wife and young daughter complaining this past weekend confirmed that, doubt it's a separate compressor, I think the air is just ducted differently when the rear A/C is on. Initially, since it was partially working I thought maybe the condenser coil was getting iced up but now that it does not work at all, so maybe the refrigerant has just all leaked out. My main concern is if compressor is shot (maybe that's why I hear/feel the thumping noise). I tried recording the sound today but all you can hear is the fan, I can actually feel the thumping more than hear it.
I think you'll be fine if it is working ok now. My A/C has been declining over the past two weeks at least (when it has gotten over 90 here in the Chicago). So it didn't happen over night and from my searches on the forum, if you had the reversed coil issue, you would have likely complained with the summer weather already. I have no read that the A/C just died suddenly, so if you have no preliminary symptoms, your fine.�
Aug 1, 2016
K-MTG Thanks for the feedback, definitely reassuring. No cooling issues, the AC is just loud and rumbles a bit and uses a ton of energy but no performance issue�
Aug 2, 2016
Willy3988 I got my X back after a week at Dublin for a FWD sensor issue. The AC lines were also replaced. Noticed the fans are a lot quieter now. Glad it's fixed after being told before that the loud noise was normal.�
Aug 2, 2016
K-MTG What is your VIN? Would like to know if my VIN range has this issue?�
Aug 2, 2016
Willy3988 16xx�
Aug 2, 2016
ksquared Sounds very similar to the problems I'm having (poorly functional AC and loud fans) and my VIN is much higher (8300s). Will report back after my service experience (being dropped off this Thursday).�
Aug 2, 2016
omarsultan Mine if going in tomorrow, so I will report back. I also have a family vacation kicking of next week, where we plan on taking the MX, and made the SvC aware of that.�
Aug 4, 2016
omarsultan Looking at the invoice from the trip to the SvC (don't have the car back yet), I also had the issue with the switched condenser lines:
What I love about Tesla Service: while they took it on the test drive, they noticed a rattle in one of the door panels (nothing I had noticed) and took it upon themselves to fix it.�
Aug 9, 2016
ksquared No final update but my X was dropped off five days ago and I've been informed that the compressor has failed and was leaking Freon. Parts pending arrival at the SC. I'll update this thread when I have the car back and have the full story.�
Aug 10, 2016
cmd_keen Sorry to hear that your compressor has failed, but the way I would look at it is that you are getting a *new* part and hopefully with have much better longevity with this fix than say if they just topped off the refrigerant and let you go a few while longer before the A/C isn't cold anymore... so I'm going to drop off my X tomorrow and we'll see how it goes.�
Aug 12, 2016
ksquared Thanks for your comments. The only reason I'm not in complete agreement with your view is that the car was exactly 2 weeks old when I started having problems. Perhaps if I was getting a new compressor for a car nearing the end of warranty coverage I'd be celebrating a bit more. And as for adding freon to a leaky compressor--that wouldn't even have been a competent response. That said, I'm hoping you're facing a less serious scenario.
Update (bad news): Parts still not in sight. Looks like this will be a 3-week+ service call. Model S P85 is nice, but X is sorely missed.
Now the good news: SC customer service has been fantastic. Intelligent, communicative, transparent. They're even going so far as to loan me a Model X from the marketing side to salvage a 4-day trip with kids to Orlando, even though I didn't ask. Impressive, IMO.
I'll note here for the Tesla detractors (and there seem to be plenty) that I've previously had similarly bad luck twice with compressors failing (within the first two months of ownership) on a previously owned new Acura MDX and BMW 535i. So maybe it's me. Also, the quality of the service experience has been far better than anything I've experienced in the past.�
Aug 12, 2016
ccutrer Nice. I thought about asking for that when our X went in. Our family simply cannot fit in an S, unless it has rear facing seats (only one of my SC's loaners has them, and it was already out; they rented me an Audi Q7 instead).�
Aug 12, 2016
cmd_keen The diagnosis for my A/C problems has been confirmed to be crossed lines. The SC actually told me my VIN (34xx) is apparently "in the range" of vehicles that could have crossed lines. When I asked what exactly is that range... they could not tell me. Not sure if they even know since they were looking at only my vehicle. I don't think there is a public TSB about this issue, at least one doesn't exist on the NHTSA website. Neither is there one for my broken door latch and motor.
Though I am relieved to know that my lines were indeed crossed, it still worries me greatly that the A/C did work, albeit not well since delivery... I only have 1200 miles on it and in the past two months, and I was out of town for 3 of those week. Within that time, in particular the last 3 weeks, the A/C rapidly performed worse and worse despite the weather getting cooler and then just started blowing warm/hot air.
So I strongly believe (in my case) that at the very least, the crossed lines (maybe high/low side at condenser) caused failures down the line, perhaps to seals causing a refrigerant leak. That's the best case, and worse case the compressor has been damaged or is just gone.
I am glad to hear that you have been having such a great experience at your SC, sounds like they are really looking into your case and not just applying band-aid fixes. I have questioned my SC to look into possible damage to the A/C system elsewhere due to the crossed lines from the factory. I don't want to go back a few weeks from now for the same issue again!�
Aug 13, 2016
ohmman One of the disappointing things about these refrigerant leaks is the HFCs being released into the atmosphere. At least for those of us who value the climate sustainability benefits of a Tesla.�
Aug 13, 2016
ksquared Just realized something funny...we're staying at Disney Saratoga Springs, and you're from the real thing!�
Aug 13, 2016
ccutrer Lol. But is the Disney one named after my tiny town, or the much larger one by the same name in New York?
(I was curious; Wikipedia says the latter is indeed correct)�
Aug 14, 2016
ksquared Very good question--from my vantage (having lived in many parts of this great country) it looks like neither Utah nor NY! But pastoral--at least as much as that is possible in an overpriced resort at a massive theme park. Kids are happy, though, which is what matters.�
Aug 15, 2016
dropd I just picked my car up Friday, and this weekend we had record hot temperatures here near Philadelphia (98+ with high humidity). When fully on, the AC when standing outside our MX is louder than our central AC unit for our house.
Based on this thread, it sounds like I need to be calling service. Ugh.�
Aug 15, 2016
Muzzman1 Not necessarily. Don't fret. As long as the A/C is cooling well inside, the outside fans can be pretty loud even after they did my repair when I started this thread.
The fans can sound like a jet.
I'm fairly certain they did not swap the lines except on early vins such as our 90D, Vin 1985�
Aug 15, 2016
jelloslug Fortunately, R-134a has an almost insignificant effect on the ozone layer.�
Aug 15, 2016
ohmman That is one relieving fact. However, it's 1,410x as potent as CO2 when rated as a GHG.�
Aug 15, 2016
jelloslug Well, we certainly should not just willy nilly dump it out as we please. Since it is several times heavier than air though, having it make it's way to places in the atmosphere where it can do harm is not that big an issue.�
Aug 16, 2016
oneday Not sure but I thought Tesla used r1234yf?�
Aug 16, 2016
cmd_keen Well my VIN is 34xx, so still early but not that low either. It appears to be a range of dates, rather than VINs... likely whoever installed the lines backwards has been "re-trained." My build date is April 2016.�
Aug 19, 2016
cmd_keen Happy to report that my A/C issues have been resolved (hopefully for the long run)! As previously stated, my lines were indeed crossed, the error was corrected and the only detrimental affect to the A/C system apparently was the need to replace the desiccant bag, which makes sense since the system had to be purged and exposed to atm before re-vacuuming and charging.
The difference is rather amazing... rather the A/C system just works and does not struggle and no more crazy loud A/C fan. I picked it up yesterday afternoon and temps were in the mid-80s with high humidity. I can't believe I just accepted it at first!
The SC was also very professional at handling the issue. There was the unavoidable wait to get into the shop, but at least I had an electric loaner. The staff were all very friendly, open, and engaging, though I did notice some apprehension at first... that is likely for a whole other reason that's not relevant to this thread. There are still a couple outstanding issues that are minor that I need to go back to the SC to address, but with this recent excellent experience, I myself no longer feel apprehensive about it.�
Aug 24, 2016
RobertGreenberg Logs didn't show anything, but I finally convinced TM to do a courtesy check of my A/C after being told everything seemed normal. Sure enough, compressor lines were reversed. VIN #13XX. Only wish this had gotten resolved before the summer was nearly over...�
Aug 24, 2016
DuplexDianne Funny story...was at my delivery appointment on Monday but had paint issues so I left without my new car as it headed to the body shop before I got to sit in it...that's another story....
Anywho...another customer and I hear a loud popping noise outside in the lot of the SC...he went outside to check and saw green liquid oozing from the front of a customer's titanium Model X that was parked in the lot awaiting...it was green liquid...maybe coolant of some sort he speculated? Should have taken a quick pic...
Maybe that person will comment on what happened to their car? High temp was about 93 and 67% humidity according to almanac...�
Aug 24, 2016
earlyretirement Yikes! I'm not sure I'd use "funny". (At least for the guy it happened to). I'm picking up my X on Monday and praying all goes well. Back in mid-2013 when I got my P85 it didn't go too well. Back then believe it or not, they were transporting the Model S's from Fremont without wrapping/protecting the cars for transport. So my car had all kinds of paint chips. They had to end up repainting the hood and parts of my P85. The guy doing the walk through with me even told me that one car had a broken windshield from a bird that flew in.
They have come a long way since then.... But still.�
Aug 27, 2016
ksquared I got my car back on Thursday following the replacement of the AC condenser. Car cools beautifully now. Much quieter, though occasionally loud at times. Repair took a long time (nearly three weeks) but the service center customer service was great and I was even given an X loaner for part of that interval to salvage a planned family trip.�
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