Oct 28, 2013
Earthdog So I live in Atlanta, GA and am really torn. Money is an issue but I don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish. My commute is a whooping 40 miles daily. However I want to be able to drive the Tesla up to Nashville, TN. I have read stories implying not to expect 200 miles out of a charge. In my case I wish to drive the Tesla like my normal vehicles( I have PHEV that driving too fast or with the AC means I can't stay in EV mode). I prefer to drive highway speeds of 75-80 and that is most of my commute. I do have Quad Cab Truck I love to drive so its not about distance but I would love to roll into hotel in Savannah or the Gaylord in Nashville and say plug her up
Something else to consider is we have 6 current and about to be 12 CHAdeMO chargers out there for me to use with the adapter in the North Georgia Area.
Just want an honest opinion
TIA�
Oct 28, 2013
TylerCA I was in the same predicament. The car's for my wife and she commutes about 50 miles every day. I thought it was overkill to get a 100k car for her to drive to and fro for work. Then we considered possible longer distance trips since we have a cabin in Tahoe, so we opted for a P85 instead.�
Oct 28, 2013
Galve2000 if you hope to use chademo you will have to spring for supercharger access in a 60 kW battery, and the chademo to model S adapter is rumored to cost $1500 which you will need regadless of what battery size you chose. I would tell you to get the larger battery and enjoy the added range, but I do not have a clear picture of your finances.
my best advice would be to get the 85 kW battery and sell one of your other cars to make up the difference. Your ICE will be sitting around collecting dust more than you can imagine.�
Oct 28, 2013
AmpedRealtor You will never, ever complain about having too much capacity and range... the opposite feeling is not so nice.�
Oct 28, 2013
liuping The 85kWh battery option also includes the Primacy Tires and Supercharger Access, making the 85khw effectively $7000.
Given you want to drive 80MPH with AC on, the 85kWh battery will let you do that and not worry about making 200 Mile range.
If you have not done so already, check out Your Questions Answered | Tesla Motors, where you can dial in speed, AC etc. to see estimated range on 85 and 60 kWh batteries. Unfortunately, the dial only goes to 65MPH, but it still gives you an idea of the range reduction.�
Oct 28, 2013
100thMonkey get the 85! bigger battery equals more relaxed!�
Oct 28, 2013
nightau If money is not an issue - get the 85
If money is an issue - get the 85, and just divide the difference ($10k) by the length of your financing period (60/72/84 months)�
Oct 28, 2013
neroden This is true. If you have a Tesla Model S and an ICE, the ICE will only be driven when:
(1) The Model S is already being driven and another member of your household needs to go somewhere, or
(2) The Model S is in the shop and Tesla was out of loaners
You will find that everyone in your household will drive the Tesla by preference. And so will your friends. You'll find yourself trying to figure out how to use the Tesla to haul lumber instead of using your truck. (It's probably possible.)
You may have to worry about your ICE car/truck's battery going dead from disuse, or about the gasoline in the tank "going stale", or about the tires getting flat spots.
The 85kW battery is one thing which is worth the money for sure, though I feel that way about several of the "functional" options. If you're worried about money, skimp on the decorative model S options instead (paint, trim, sound system, parcel shelf, etc.) -- they're quite expensive for what you get.�
Oct 28, 2013
jerry33 Agreed. Get the 85. You won't regret it.�
Oct 28, 2013
yobigd20 This is exactly why I would never recommend the 60kWh to anyone. For an extra $7000, you are getting a 41% increase in battery size and range. That is incredible. I don't know why anyone would take a 60. Please do yourself a favor and get the 85. You will regret it if you don't. Many owners found themselves trading up after making this mistake so save yourself the hassle (and money loss) by getting the 85 now. Btw, it's also fastermany people forget to mention that. Many people would pay more than $7k just to get the performance increase alone. If I was Tesla I would have priced the 60 much lower than it is currently. The difference in price vs what you get between the 60 and 85 is really an enormous value and a steal for that price and what you get in return.
�
Oct 28, 2013
qwk I agree. The P is also worth every penny of the $10k. I really doubt that anyone regrets getting a performance.�
Oct 28, 2013
quartzav If you price
60kW with primacy upgrade and call them per-delivery for combined CHAdeMO adaptor + supercharger activation
72070+2400=74470
85kW plus CHAdeMO adaptor prior to delivery
81070+1000=82070
So the question is if you are getting CHAdeMO anyway then 85kW is a $7600 upgrade but that would cut your real need of use CHAdeMO.
If you choose to get 85kW for the need to skip CHAdeMO as much as possible then it is just a $6600 upgrade for you.�
Oct 28, 2013
Dreamin As an owner of a 60... get the 85.�
Oct 28, 2013
ggbjr Why, Dreamin? I mean, how often do you find yourself regretting the decision?�
Oct 28, 2013
Dreamin Used same logic as OP as I have a 45 mile round trip commute... I thought a 60 would be plenty as it was just supposed to be a fun commute to/from work car.
The car quickly turned into our take it everywhere car. I like driving it too much. I added supercharging a few weeks after delivery. I've taken road trips all over CA in it - and wouldn't mind a little more range.
And under the 'power is addictive' category... a little more can't hurt.
It's not like I lose sleep over it now... but if I had a do-over, I would get an 85.�
Oct 28, 2013
lloyds I have 60 owners regret not getting the 85, but so never vice versa�
Oct 28, 2013
doctrewho I had every intention of ordering a 60 going into the process but when it came down to it I did the math and considered the benefits and went 85 when I ordered. I gave it a full 24 hours to sink in that I was willing to drop the extra $7000 and I didn't feel that it was a bad decision so I pulled the early confirmation trigger and have been happy with that decision since. Basically what it comes down to is do what you think is right for you.�
Oct 28, 2013
brianman $1000, not rumor
Shop Tesla Gear CHAdeMO Adapter
- - - Updated - - -
It hauls lumber just fine.
- - - Updated - - -
@Earthdog (OP) - Can you give us a rough picture of what your fully configured 60 would look like? This is often very useful for beginning a directed discussion with "If it was me, I'd remove __ options and get the 85" replies.�
Oct 28, 2013
purplewalt I ordered an 85 specifically because of the increased range, (and maybe a little bit for the extra power/speed).
If you are ever considering taking trips (charging is free), those extra miles 57 miles may really come in handy one day (265 - 208 = 57).
I'm about to embark on an extensive trip into the wild (no SC currently in sight or even under construction), and it would really add a LOT of additional time having to stop and recharge every 140-150 miles or so (rough mileage number being 2/3 of rated range, with some safety factor figured in) vs 177-185 or even 200.
Brianman is correct Earthdog (OP): In order to best look at your budget, perhaps you outline how you are planning to configure your car, and then reconsider, and focus more on the 85, and then perhaps trim a few of the other accessories.
Or just bite the bullet and add the 85 to the configuration you really want.�
Oct 28, 2013
Puyallup Bill How true.
And not mentioned, I don't think, the battery will degrade - is sure to happen. Larger will fill your needs longer.�
Oct 29, 2013
Earthdog Ok, I'm convinced for an 85kw. However, you all are really worrying me about the lack of range on the 85kw and also the battery degradation.
Now I need to find out the details of the battery warranty. If you are looking at a loss of 5-10% in capacity each year that's crazy! I hope I am misunderstanding.�
Oct 29, 2013
AlMc You misunderstood. Degradation about 2%/year. Battery warranty on 85s is 8 years, unlimited mileage. If you can swing it I would go with 85. There are lots of people who love their 60s and there is not a 'bad' S configuration IMO. But I have not read a thread where someone says, 'I have an 85, wish I got a 60'. There is evidence on this thread and others that their is some angst over not having gotten the 85.�
Oct 29, 2013
GlennAlanBerry Unless money is really the primary issue, I would recommend an 85. Having that extra range and extra power, plus free super charger access just gives you more flexibility and piece of mind over the lifetime of the car.�
Oct 29, 2013
liuping I would not worry excessively about degradation, especially since you said your daily commute is 40 miles
An 85 kWh battery should still have more range than a new 60 even after 8 years (conservatively assuming 3% degradation per year), so with the supercharger network in place, long trips will still be fine as well.�
Oct 29, 2013
qwk Another thing to consider would be the climate you live in. The car will use quite a bit more power in below freezing temperatures.�
Oct 29, 2013
montgom626 85 kW�
Oct 29, 2013
brianman @Discoducky - Weigh in please with your thoughts on the 60 kWh.�
Oct 29, 2013
Apoclyps first off, I am an idiot. I tried responding to this thread, but got sidetracked on another thread and ended up responding there.
60kw upgrade to 85kw, Was told by multiple Tesla Sources not possible at this time. - Page 3�
Oct 29, 2013
jerry33 I just drove from DFW to Lincoln, NE on my 85. Three charging stops and never even came close to running out. Range just isn't a problem with the 85.
The battery degradation isn't a problem either. The previous car's battery (the Roadster) are doing 20% to 30% better than originally thought according to an owners survey from PlugInAmerica. LiOn batteries degrade more in their first year and then level out for a long time.�
Oct 29, 2013
Kipernicus As others have noted, the decision really depends on your particular circumstances (where you live, how far (and fast) you want to drive, etc).
For me, the 60 has been great because
1) when I configured, the jump to 85 really was $10k because I was grandfathered into free SC and there was no tire upgrade
2) I live in CA, with the many superchargers and public charging stations
3) I've been able to drive all around the bay area, up to Tahoe, and a week long trip to LA (down the 5 and up the 101). 10k miles now.
No regrets on choosing the 60, but if I had to configure today, I'd probably get the 85 because now the difference is really just $7k, and I wouldn't have to worry about degradation as much. I could keep it at 50% and still have enough for spur of the moment trips.�
Oct 29, 2013
SeminoleFSU I too live in Atlanta and my normal commute is 90 miles or so if I drive to lunch... The 85 gives me the ability to charge below the standard 90% and still have plenty to spare... I feel like that may conserve pack degradation over the years, but who knows...
And the 85 will also be nice for road trippin' once the super chargers appear on the east coast... Can't wait! I've seen lots of folks post about road trips in the 60, but I don't want to have to drive 55-65MPH on a road trip just to have a decent enough buffer at my destination to feel comfortable
I felt like the 60 would be a decent option if there was talk of a bigger battery than the 85 appearing at some point and you could trade-in/upgrade later, but that seems like it will be a very long time before we'll see that... with no guarantees on the trade-in
One last thing to consider is when it gets cold (for the few months out of the year in Georgia) your range will take a hit..�
Oct 29, 2013
Shumdit SO TRUE. I had originally decided to sell one car as part of my "deal with my conscience" when I bought the Tesla. Now I am selling three because I simply do not see myself driving them much if at all. If only Tesla could get more people behind the wheel on test drives!�
Oct 29, 2013
Btrflyl8e I don't regret going with the 60, but I really never go on long road trips. I did have the rare occasion to need to drive to Miami recently, but a supercharger opened exactly halfway about a month before my trip, allowing me to take the Tesla. So for the 7,500 miles I have on it so far, I've never needed to charge anywhere but at home, while I sleep (other than that one road trip, of course).
For the way I use the car, even with all the errands I suddenly volunteer to make, the 60 is still perfect and I used the $7000 for vacation instead :biggrin:�
Oct 29, 2013
ssq That's reassuring for a potential buyer who too cannot justify spending 7k more (i.e. cannot swing a 85) !�
Oct 29, 2013
SFOTurtle I love my 60. If money were no object, I would have sprung for an S85 for the extra range, not the speed/performance (real world time for 60s is 0 to 60 in 5.1 seconds, I seem to recall posts from a while back trying to figure what the real world 0 to 60 time for S85 was, but it isn't noticeably different -- of course I'm not talking about P85, just S85 vs. S60 real world times). I'm perfectly happy with the OEM tires I have and don't think I would get $1,000 of additional value out of the Michelins, so that would not have gotten me much closer to the 85. I have nearly 11,000 miles on the car and there have been a few times where I wish I had an extra 20-30 miles of range, but these were on road trips and before the Superchargers were operational on the route. If someone doesn't drive the car long distances, a 60 is plenty of car.
Something to think about that I didn't before I purchased -- once you get the car, I can see a lot of folks who will want to start doing long road trips even if they had never planned to do that before!! You'll want to drive it more and more. And for this reason, having a bigger battery pack will make those trips easier and with only an $8K difference in price, is easy to justify. But for a lot of people who would never take the car on trips because they never have and never will, getting the bigger battery pack won't be worth the extra cost. The difference in performance, if there is any, won't be enough to justify it. And that is why I continue to see 60s all over the road here.�
Oct 29, 2013
Discoducky I love my 60 and have taken a few longish trips and one big trip down to Palm Springs and back this past March (see links in my signature) without issue for range as we have pretty great charging up in the Seattle area thanks to amazing support from owners and the state.
However, you live in a place that will not be serviced by superchargers for a while (2015) with a 300 distance between the two major cities so that could be the deciding point for you.
On that trip with a 60 you'd need to stop for 5 hours of charging in Chattanooga with a single charger or 3 hours on a dual-charger or 2 hours on ChaDeMo (if they show up).
On that trip with a 85 you'd need to stop for only 2 hours or 1 hour respectively to drive the speeds you want to go. Or less with more efficient driving.
If I was in your shoes, I might opt for the 85 just because of the lack of supercharging and level 3 support **IF** you really want that drive to Nashville to be quick.�
Oct 30, 2013
ssq My plan is to go for the 60 since my commute is 60 miles(padded for actual freeway speeds and my style of driving). I don't take long road trips but as SFOTurtle pointed out I might start taking those (Julian, Palm Springs for instance). If I see that happen, I plan to add the supercharger option, which again I dont want to spend on because given my past and current commute I don't see the need. Its great I do have the option to add that on after delivery. For the same reasons I want to go with a NEMA 14-50 with a single 10 kw onboard charger and no high power wall charger.�
Oct 30, 2013
dsm363 I think you could easily skip the second charger (can be added later as well but for more money) but if adding Supercharging is a given, the price difference between a 60 and 85kWh falls to around $8,000 then. Almost no one who buys a 85 kWh regrets having the extra range so something to consider.�
Oct 30, 2013
ssq I do follow your point but I don't take long road trips(San Diego => Sequoia National Park was my longest stretch in a day till date), instead prefer flying and then renting(usually a large SUV) from the destination. Usually that also involves a larger group of people and kids at times. So with that $8k I could do this fly+rent combination several times without worrying about bashing up a nice car on unknown terrain over extra long distances and people who may or may not care about a pricey car :smile: .. yes I am finicky about a whole bunch of things I don't allow in my car (maybe because I don't have kids yet)
I can surely argue in favor of S85 as well but I am trying to justify what I really need and not throwing away money for peace of mind (for situation which may never really present itself). I have two ICE cars on the side btw, and one of them stays.�
Oct 30, 2013
liuping I don't think you will find many people who went with the 85 and later consider the money "thrown away".
Many find after the get the Model S, they drive it much more and further than they ever planned to. Many drive it far more than they drove their previous ICE vehicles.
If money is the issue, I would (and did) cut many other things before cutting range. The air suspension, pano roof, 21" tires, premium stereo, custom rims all go first for me.�
Oct 30, 2013
johnnyS The 85 is great--the range almost replicates a gasoline car range. The model S is a fantastic road car. I think you will be surprised how you will find excuses for road trips. My commute is only 6 miles, but sometimes I have appointments that are 75-100 miles away. I never think about range in daily driving. My wife and I have been thinking about flying to Vancouver next summer, but now there are superchargers all the way from Southern California to Canada--maybe we will drive!�
Oct 30, 2013
dsm363 Can't argue with anything you said. If you plan on keeping the car for many years (8+) then a larger battery pack will allow for more range after some degradation and also in bad weather. That said if you are confident you'll never go on long day trips then the 60kWh is still a great car.�
Oct 30, 2013
N4HHE Absolutely totally agree. Thats one significant reason I bought an 85. A corollary of the above is that smaller percentage charge/discharges induce less wear. So regular 60 mile cycles will wear an 85 kWh battery less than a 60 kWh battery. A Nissan LEAF with only 80 mile range is working the battery hard for a 60 mile day.
Also charge rate slows somewhere above 50%, and is really slow from 80% to 100% (if you go that far). So if you need a charge the 85 might get there a few minutes quicker.�
Oct 31, 2013
jerry33 Last year I drove 16,000 miles with my ICE. This year I'm at over 13,000 in eight months. If I continue at this rate it will be a 20,000 mile year. A 25% increase.�
Oct 31, 2013
Discoducky "Thrown away" is harsh, but I'm really glad I invested the money in TM I 'saved' (not sure that is the right word either) or 'didn't spend' on the 85 as I've never *needed* it to live my life the way that makes the most sense to me
AKA, I haven't lost a speed race yet or come up short or been delayed from charging or not been able to go anywhere I didn't want to go or keep me from going 4000 miles up and down the west coast
Are you feelin' me?�
Oct 31, 2013
Tacket I've got a 60 and also love it tremendously. Have not felt range issues, even on longer trips (500mi) in the cold rain here in the NW. HOWEVER, I assume that I will be able to upgrade this battery to a bigger one when it comes time to replace as probably at some point in the distant future it's degraded range will not get me to where I need to go (NOTE: I have no proof of this and quite honestly this may be a completely idiotic assumption on my part since we've been expressly told this will not be an option -- which in that case, I give this car to my wife and get a new one
BUT, I have had to drive slow on some of those long rainy trips, and once had to safely draft a semi to get where I needed to go. Oh yeah, I usually drive with the heat off on those aforementioned longer, cold trips. Some may think that on a $80k+ car putting up with these inconveniences is ridiculous -- I personally love it (I like feeling needed by the car). I also have fun planning the trips out, making sure I have enough range, charge time, etc. etc., making a spreadsheet, blah blah. Crazy right?!�
Oct 31, 2013
Merrill As was stated before many times the choice is dependent on your individual situation. My wife I are both retired, so no commute and we rarely take long road trips. So for us the 60 works great, went to Lake Tahoe with no problems and live in California so plenty of charging options. If you have plenty of money, then go for the P85+ and all the goodies.�
Oct 31, 2013
N4HHE Another excuse I found good enough for 85 kWh is that I am 183 to 220 miles (depending on the route) from my SC in Marietta. Expressed a bit of concern to my Delivery Specialist about my maiden voyage getting the car home and he insisted people drive that distance all the time without issue. Then again there are no SuperChargers any where near me, nor planned through 2015.
I would be hard for me to get a 60 kWh Model S home. Of course they will ship it, but whats the fun in that?�
Oct 31, 2013
Cal1 I agree! Having mine for the last month I'd give up all other options before I'd move down in battery size. Once you start driving it and see just how cheap it is on a daily basis, you'll be climbing every chance you get. Then range will matter. I did't get it until I realized just how much it cost me to drive my ice vehicles. The reality of not buying gas every week or so (lack of gas receipts to put in the check book) really hits home after the purchase. This is one time where bigger is better!�
Nov 28, 2013
Pax Omnibus Considering the large amount of money you are paying for a Tesla Model S, get the 85 KWH battery instead of the 60 KWH battery. It is only $10,000 more base price. Also, the 85 KWH Tesla Model S comes with a couple of options standard that the 60 KWH Tesla doesn't have. One, you get the Michelin 19 inch tires that give you an extra 3% driving range, a total of 8 extra miles, on the 85 KWH Tesla. This is a $1,000 extra option on the 60 KWH Tesla. Also, the 85 KWH Tesla comes standard with the supercharger plug, if you want to avail yourself of Tesla or other DC fast chargers, especially on long road trips. This is a $2,000 option on the 60 KWH model. When you add these two options onto the 60kwh Tesla Model S, that is a total difference of only $7,000 between the two models on a car you are paying a lot for to begin with. When you add in the 3% extra miles Michelin tires, you get an EPA range of 273 miles in the 85 KWH Tesla Model S, versus 214 miles for the 60 KWH Model S. For an extra $7,000 in price, you get an extra 59 miles in total range. That is a lot of extra range, worth it in my opinion for only an extra $7,000, considering you are paying a lot of money for the car to begin with. Less than 30% of Tesla Model S cars are ordered with the 60 KWH battery, I have read. The large mileage difference, and minimal difference in cost, seems to be why most people opt for the 85 KWH Tesla Model S instead of the 60 KWH model S. I am not a Tesla owner presently, but I am looking into the possibility of one day becoming one, once I can afford it. The above information is based on my research of the Tesla Model S internet sales site. Also, the 85 KWH Tesla Model S has a better battery warranty, 8 years unlimited miles versus 8 years 125,000 miles for the 60 KWH Model S. Also, the 85 KWH Model S is a faster car, with more horsepower and more torque than the 60 KWH Model S. You will also obtain a higher resale value with the 85 KWH Model S versus the 60 KWH Model S, all other options being equal. All the other options are the same price, regardless of which battery Model S you choose. In summary, the 85 KWH Tesla Model S is a much better value than the 60 KWH Model S, all things considered, for only an extra $7,000.�
Nov 28, 2013
Ocelot that is some really great analysis.�
Nov 28, 2013
roblab Dang again! Here I paid extra for a Signature, and I got Goodyears. I never knew Michelins were standard. I had never heard they gave 3% better mileage. I pump my Goodyears up to 48 lb as recommended, and I get over 300 miles per charge, easily and often. Mayhaps the difference is in the speed of the car? There's an 8% difference in range just going from 65 to 70.
In my mind, the important thing is how far do you want to go? Are you going to be hampered with 25% less range? I live 30 miles from town, and with my old EV, 100 mile range was just not quite enough, too often for comfort. Many times it simply meant I couldn't take the EV. As it is, we take the S everywhere and are selling our Prius. So much for range issues. For me, there was no other choice: Get the 85.�
Nov 28, 2013
jerry33 Michelin only became standard a short while ago.
I actually got better range (about 15 Wh/mile) from the Goodyears that I just replaced. However, the Michelin Primacy MXM4 don't skip during an off camber turn the way the Goodyears did--which was kind of scary. The Michelins stay planted.
3% is effectively the same as zero due to uncontrollable variables, so I wouldn't sweat the difference.�
Nov 29, 2013
Chas F Someone early on in this thread suggested that many MS60 owners regret not getting the MS85. I haven't seen much evidence of this. I have seen only a couple say they would do it differently a second time. The majority of MS60 comments I've seen say they are happy with their choice. This has also been my experience. I realize there is only a $7K difference between the 60 and 85, but for my budget, $7K is not peanuts and I haven't had one instance of regret.
I enjoy my selected options on a daily basis much more than any additional range would have provided. This was a good trade-off for me.
My daily commute is about 40 miles and even with the unexpected increase in weekend driving, I have always had enough range to meet my needs.
As others have stated, the additional performance is neglible. I haven't had the feeling of "wish I had a little more speed".
I feel I would be lugging around an additional $7K of unused battery capacity had I gone for the 85.
Of course, no one regrets getting an 85 but not many regret getting the 60 either.
Caveats: 1) I live in Florida so no cold temp concerns. 2) I plan on keeping the car for 10+ years (and then maybe upgrade the battery) so no resale concerns 3) Expect only 1-2 long trips per year. Expected Supercharger locations should support those with no problem.�
Nov 29, 2013
yobigd20 48? The recommended is 45, not 48. Where did you get 48 from? Overinflating may cause the center treads to wear faster.�
Nov 29, 2013
jerry33 That was true with bias-ply tires. It's only true in radial tires if the tire has a small crown radius. Unfortunately, this has been carried forward from the bias-ply tire days.
Overinflation is setting the cold pressure to more than the maximum inflation pressure on the sidewall. Adjusting pressure to suit conditions is not overinflation.�
Nov 29, 2013
Btrflyl8e As I was reading this I thought "wait, is this MY post?" LOL
Ditto all of this, including the caveats! I even grew up in Orlando...�
Dec 2, 2013
lloyds I too had this dilemma, but after taking delivery half a yr ago and over 10k miles, there were countless moments where I'm glad I had the extra range. Do it if it is doable for you financially�
Dec 6, 2013
David Rhee If you like to drive at 75-80mph, the range on a 85 is at right around 200 miles. 60 will be correspondingly less. Get the 85 without the frills on the options. You won't regret it.�
Dec 8, 2013
bwilliams I just placed an order yesterday for the 60. I am a LEAF owner and mostly wanted a little extra range. Another 50 miles would have done it for me so getting more than double the range with the tesla is actually overkill. Interesting to me, the sales guy said LEAF owners almost always get the 60 because they have enough experience with electric cars to know that there is more than enough range with the 60. He expects sales for the 60 to increase once people become more comfortable with electric cars. If you are a performance-oriented driver who likes to drive a lot then maybe the 85 makes sense - but for the average commuter who doesn't think driving hundreds of miles just to drive is much fun then I'm confident the 60 is more than enough.�
Dec 8, 2013
jerry33 Driving hundreds of miles is far happier than flying hundreds of miles. And these days there's not that much difference in arrival time.�
Dec 8, 2013
bwilliams I've driven the hundreds of miles and didn't like it. Flying isn't much better, I agree. I opt for the train whenever possible because driving anywhere near the LA area is a nightmare whatever the vehicle and that's on the route to wherever I would drive longish distance (typically Santa Barbara). And when I get to my destination I ride my bike though with the $10K I saved buying the 60 I can rent a car many times over.�
Dec 8, 2013
Merrill You actual save $8000 if you get the supercharger function and I would highly recommend that, not only for trips but for resale. I am very happy with the 60, but I do not commute and do not take lots of long trips.�
Dec 8, 2013
GDH As much as I love my 60 I am selling it to get an 85, hopefully a P85 =)�
Dec 8, 2013
bwilliams For now I don't need and didn't order the super charger. My savings is a full $10,000. Oh, actually more than $10K as we aren't paying the CA sales tax on that $10K. So the savings for me is $10,750!
�
Dec 8, 2013
bareyb A larger battery will last you longer if you only have to charge it to say, 55% as I do. According to my research, only charging the battery to 55% and using 20 Amps instead of 40 can more than DOUBLE your battery pack's useable lifespan. So that's another plus if you don't drive many miles every day.
ETA: I had originally ordered the S60, and later upgraded to the P85. I wanted the extra performance. Now that I have it, I'm not sure I need it. I probably would've been just as happy with the S60, but in the end, I'm happy with my choice. I plan to keep this thing for at least ten years or more so I'm kind of glad I went for the loaded one.�
Dec 8, 2013
purplewalt Do you EVER intend to use a Supercharger (You are living life large in the LAND of Superchargers)?
If so, the $2,000 cost now will save you $500 should you choose to add the SC ability later.�
Dec 8, 2013
bwilliams Never is a very long time, so the best I can say is I will not use a supercharger as far into the future as I can see. There is no supercharger in the san diego area and I'm not gonna drive to LA, or even close to LA, to try one. I think it's a safe $2K+ bet. Keep in mind that I've been driving an electric car now for well over 2 years and getting by (barely) on a 50 mile range (due to freeway driving). I just want a little more range - and a great looking car helps; let's face it, the LEAF is one ugly car though I love it anyway. Think about the movie "who killed the electric car" and how the vast majority of americans drive relatively few daily miles and simply do not need huge range. $10K+ might make the difference between buying this car or not buying it. I don't think american drivers should be irrationally range-fearful. Most americans do not need a 265 mile range. Nor 208 mile range for that matter.�
Dec 8, 2013
GDH 10 years!....come on. Do you know how outdated your/our current Model S's are going to be in 10 years!.........in ten years it's going to feel like your drive a Pinto!�
Dec 8, 2013
bareyb I don't tend to replace stuff if it's still working well and has been reliable. My last vehicle I kept for ten years and it didn't even have Blue tooth, so the MS already feels like I went from the stone age to the future. I honestly can't imagine what they could add that I'd really need. It's already got way more than I need now.�
Dec 8, 2013
GDH AWD
BLISS
Active Cruise Control
Better Seats with whip flash protection and better side support
Lane Departure
Laser Guns
Missile Launchers
120 kWh battery
Less Vampire Loss
That's just my quick list�
Dec 8, 2013
gg_got_a_tesla You wouldn't need a new car for this one in all likelihood. I got the 60 kWh pack - with supercharging although I'm not a road-tripper (I prefer flying even to LA) - precisely for this reason: that I could one day (say, in 10 years) swap it out for the biggest pack available from Tesla at that time. The 60 has plenty of range for all my driving in the Greater Bay Area much as bwilliams seems to indicate his range needs are in the San Diego area.�
Dec 8, 2013
NoMoreGas Great points made by All. My wife convinced me that I wouldn't be happy with the 60, and since there's no sale tax for EVs in Washington I ordered the 85. I'd planned to get the 60 and added the supercharger down the line if I needed it (which would have cost 2500) if adding later. By ordering the 85 I got the upgrade on the tires and saved the extra 500 it would have cost by adding the SC as an add on. We both drive BMWs now 2011 for me and 08 for her. She wants the '11. She's still not sure about EVs yet. I think I can change her mind.�
Dec 8, 2013
ecarfan Could you please provide a reference to your data source that supports your statement about using 20 Amos instead of 40? I would like to learn more about that issue.
Thank you,�
Dec 8, 2013
bareyb It was on this forum. Somebody posted a chart that showed how long your battery would take to lose 20% of it's useable range at various Charge Levels and Amps. I'll see if I can find it. I thought it was pretty cool considering I really only drive at most about 50 miles per day.
- - - Updated - - -
Found it: #24 and here for the slower charging info you wanted: #21
You may want to read the whole thread but here is the chart:
�
Dec 9, 2013
bareyb Well, the all wheel drive and missile launchers would be nice� :wink:�
Dec 9, 2013
jerry33 Except that the Model S will have software upgrades so it won't be nearly as out of date. The vehicle I had three vehicles ago I kept for 20 years. My last vehicle I drove for ten years before it became a second car. The second to the last vehicle I only kept for five years but that was because it was a VW TDI and was costing 22 cents per mile for maintenance--truly the worst and most disappointing car I've ever had. Never again will I buy any car that has anything to do with VW.�
Dec 18, 2013
brianman hovercraft�
Dec 22, 2013
sranger I Ordered a S85 a few days ago. I work in sales and have to keep a milage log. So I have accurate driving records over the past 5 years. I know that a 60Kwhr would work for me. I ordered the 85 for several reasons that many have reported here:
1) Better resale value.
2) I did want super charging and love Michelin tires.. (So for me it was $7,000 diff)
3) Better warrantee (Unlimited miles)
4) Better performance (Least important to me, but sill nice)
5) I live just outside of Atlanta, GA. There will not be any Supercharge Options for me for a couple of years, so the extra range allows for more trip options until they are installed.
6) I think a large pack will degrade less due to less deep charge cycles.
7) I plan to keep the car for at least 10 years. If it degrades to a 60Kwhr, I am still good, especially if the SC network is completed by then.
8) I am sure that the wife and I will take more road trips in the car than we have in the past.
9) I know myself and know it would have just bothered me too much if I got the 60.... Not rational, but there you go...
10) And Finally, after thinking about it for months. I realized that if I could not afford the 85Kwhr car, I really should not be buying the 60Kwhr car either...
This may well turn out to be the best or worst decision I have ever made, so you might as well do it right either way...�
Dec 29, 2013
rjcbox
Great list - I've read many posts on 60 v. 85 and came to almost identical conclusions�
Jan 1, 2014
jerry33 Or this.�
Feb 22, 2014
Bluchip 60 kw vs 85 kw Model S
I am also upgrading from a Leaf to a Tesla due to range anxiety. Also considering a 60kw model. Here are a few facts on my driving:
1. Most of my daily driving is under 100 miles. Rarely would I exceed 150 miles in a day.
2. I have a level 2 40 amp charging station in my garage.
3. I rarely exceed 65 mph as we have more speed traps and cameras in my area than you can shake a stick at.
4. I live 2 miles from a Supercharging station. I plan to buy the Supercharger upgrade in the 60.
5. Temperatures in my area range from 90 degrees in the summer to 25 in winter.
Would appreciate your thoughts on whether 60kw will be sufficient. Also, have software upgrades increased the range both the 60 and 85 since the Model S was introduced?�
Feb 22, 2014
Btrflyl8e No change to range, only change to how it is calculated from what I gathered. I think ultimately the 60kWh is sufficient for the majority of people, it really comes down to your price tolerance and if you think it will haunt you that you didn't get the 85. I definitely drive a lot more than I did with any ICE, and we've already taken more road trips in 10 months than I probably did in the previous 5 years... but I still have no regrets going with the 60. My daily commute is 40 miles, and I have a very heavy right foot.�
Feb 22, 2014
dsm363 I think like a lot of people the 60 would be more than enough for daily driving but there is something to be said about extra range on the 85. If it is within budget I think it is the first option to go for. Good luck.�
Feb 22, 2014
SwedishAdvocate Worst case scenario: Will a 60 kWh be able to do 150 miles in 25 degrees while driving ~65 mph in winter with the strongest headwind and worst snow-scenario Bluchip may risk encountering where s(he) lives on the East coast?�
Feb 23, 2014
MassX1317 I think with 100-150 miles daily you should go with the 85. I am right around 100 miles daily and I thought the 60 was borderline for this area factoring in the cold and degradation. I was thinking the daily 100 miles plus errands I may need to run, could put me above the winter limit. I didn't want to spend $80k for a car and be afraid to drive it.
I calculated something like this:
Year 1-Range charge = 210mi/90% charge = 189mi/worst in cold (75%) = 142mi
Year 2-205/185/139
Year 3-200/180/135
Year 4-195/175/131
Year 5-190/171/128
Year 6-185/166/125
Year 7-180/162/122
Year 8-175/158/118
Pros of 85kw:
8 year warranty regardless of miles
You will have little to no range anxiety
You will charge faster at SC vs a 60
Cons:
Will cost you $125-150/mo if financing�
Feb 23, 2014
yobigd20 Please get the 85. The only common complaint I hear is from S60 owners wishing they got the 85 instead. Don't be one of them. You won't regret it. You'll be glad you did in the long run.
The difference in price is only $8k (since supercharging is included). The VALUE you get for this small price difference (relative to total price) is HUUUUUGGEEE.
For $8k, you get the following:
1) 40% bigger battery. This is huge.
2) better battery warranty (85kW=8yr/unlimited miles vs 60kW=8yr/125k miles)
3) faster performance. Many car enthusiasts would pay $8k or more JUST for this one alone.
4) longer range (obviously) ... The extra miles if/when you need them = less range anxiety
5) LONGER BATTERY LIFE. It's hard to realize this one. The 60 has a less number of individual cells. This means that for the same distance traveled, the individual cell usage in a 60 is going to be higher than the 85. More usage = more deep discharge cycling = faster battery degradation. This is why the battery warranty on the 60 is limited to 125k miles...just having an 85 simply means your battery will last longer for the same distance traveled.
6) sort of a derivative of #5. I highly expect the residual value % to be higher on an 85 than a 60.
7) upgraded tires (Michelins...much better than the Goodyears).
8) the 85 supercharges at a higher rate than the 60. Again due to having more cells it can distribute more power concurrently.
That's what you get for $8k. Technically it's $10k difference but I'm leaving out the fact that supercharging is included. This value is just too huge. I would never recommend the 60 when you can get all the above for an extra $8k.�
Feb 23, 2014
jerry33 I tend to agree with Yobigd20. The other thing I hear from every Model S owner is that they drive more than they did in their previous car. There are a couple of reasons for this: 1) Driving is more fun when it doesn't cost you $80, plus however much you spend when you get there. 2) Driving a Model S is just a much more pleasant experience--even heavy traffic doesn't bother you as much.
I'm up 11% from last year (18,000 vs. 16,200) and 10% over my previous nine year average (16,300, commute only is 10,000). Also last Sunday was the first time I used a Supercharger. As more Superchargers get built along the routes I frequently drive I expect that my annual mileage will go up.
From the posts I've read, the average increase in distance driven is closer to 20%.�
Feb 23, 2014
gg_got_a_tesla As others have said, if all of your range needs are met (factoring in degradation and weather) and if the extra $8k is a pinch, the 60 is an excellent choice. As I've said before, unless one's lived with something, they may not really know if it truly works for them. Dare I say, many on these forums think "85 or bust" but, that may be colored by their experience with an 85 alone.
When I finalized the car in Aug '12, my wife kept me honest and prevented me from going down that slippery slope of "wanting it all". The 60 made perfect sense at the end of the day and the money I saved back then has done just fine as an investment in TSLA and my son's college fund.�
Feb 23, 2014
dsm363 I didn't mean to say you can't get a 60 and be happy with it. Some drive less than 10-40 miles on a normal work day though. For someone consistently driving a 100+ miles/day I think the 85 is the way to go if you were planning on getting Supercharging anyway.�
Feb 23, 2014
Merrill Had this discussion many times on this forum, it gets down to what works for you. I do not commute, rarely take long road trips and keep my cars for a long time. So I do not worry about how much it will be worth 5 or 10 years down the road. I will probably not ever get to the 125,000 mile mark, so the warranty is fine. Took some of the money I saved and spent it on stereo upgrade and extended warranty. Also with the supercharging network, you really do not need to worry about range on a long trip.�
Feb 23, 2014
amitb00 I thought that 60 was good for me and finalized on 60. However so many folks were recommending to go for 85 that I called Tesla and upgraded to 85. I will find out if indeed I do drives which are easier in 85 compared to 60 and update in few months
. For me extra 10k was not financial stretch. It was a huge mental stretch to spend so much on a car though and I did not want to regret later. Further if some can only afford 60 and can not afford 85, I will doubt if they should buy even 60. They may want to wait little bit and only if they can afford they should pull the trigger.�
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