Apr 1, 2016
Vitold It's a play on acronyms but it's true: Base Model 3 is RWD. I'm somewhat disappointed in that since driving FWD is better in snow.
I'm getting used to even more electric nose and I love that they get rid of the instrument panel as it lowers the cost of producing left and right hand drive as well it offers better visibility. Push button handles are improvement over X since they provide haptic feedback. Headroom in the rear seats appears to be a step up from S as well. Overall the car looks very aerodynamic and it just may go further than Bolt while using smaller battery.
I had my doubts if Tesla can pull off $35k car and it appears they will...hopefully on time. EM was only 7 minutes late this time.�
Apr 1, 2016
xmetal Boring everyday transport is FWD. As you can see with all the other luxury and performance brands (of which Tesla wants to be a part) the focus is on the more exciting RWD or AWD. I am not surprised in the least that Tesla is aiming there.�
Apr 1, 2016
deonb I don't think anybody has ever broken 5 seconds in a production FWD. Where breaking it in RWD is fairly common.
Tesla has enough engineering challenges to overcome!�
Apr 1, 2016
jonnyg I think this has been gone over in other places, but from what I remember part of the advantage of FWD in snow is due to ICE cars having a big heavy engine over the front wheels.�
Apr 1, 2016
Wshowell Our family has a RAV 4 EV that has a Tesla drivetrain. It's FWD and the wheels cannot handle the torque when you really get on it. I wouldn't want that much power going anywhere but rear or AWD personally.�
Apr 1, 2016
pinski Dual motor will be an option if you need better traction
�
Apr 1, 2016
Solarwind Bolt does not have Super Chargers. a big deal! 3 will have AWD as accessory, good planning because it is not needed everywhere and adds weight and complexity.�
Apr 1, 2016
Gizmotoy It is. In the snow, at least, that's a big reason. The other is that "pushing" a vehicle in a straight line is more difficult than pulling it when traction is poor because it requires constant steering input to remain on course.�
Apr 1, 2016
david_42 One big reason FWD dominates the ICE market today is it eliminates the transmission hump inside the car, that more than compensates for the additional complexity and potential handling problems with FWD. Tuning the suspension to remove all of the torque-steering problems isn't simple. Tesla has RWD the X and S, RWD base model and 4wd achieved by adding a second motor up front. The front motor can be smaller than the main motor and have less impact on steering.�
Apr 1, 2016
brkaus Front Wheel Drive is subject to torque steer. I'd prefer RWD with better traction control offered by an electric motor.�
Apr 1, 2016
manitou820 I survive Colorado winter's in an i3 (RWD). Just get some good snow tires and you're good to go. I actually prefer the RWD in the snow (compared to FWD) when trying to get up my driveway because the weight is transferred over the wheels for better traction. Re-gen is a little scary at first because of the fishtail effect, but you get use to it. However I will most likely spec my Model 3 with AWD for the best possible traction.�
Apr 1, 2016
rcarpen22 Front wheel drive also inherently tends to understeer when you exceed available traction. This tends to be safer because the average driver freaks out and slams on brakes in such a situation. This is not a terrible response to understeer. Rear drive is much more sporting because you are not compromising steering by asking one axle to do everything (drive, steer, brake). However, rear wheel drive tends toward oversteer unless it is tuned out in the suspension. Freaking out and slamming on brakes is a poor response to oversteer, as it exacerbates the problem. I would very much prefer rear wheel drive to front, especially in a car that has the drivetrain in the rear. Old VW Beetles were great in the snow for this reason. I am very pleased that the M3 will be available in rear and AWD formats. A base rear drive M3 might be the lightest, most nimble, and most fun Tesla of all.�
Apr 1, 2016
roblab That's why Tesla does Traction Control. No wheel spin, front, rear, or both.�
Apr 1, 2016
DrManhattan I don't care what Bolt has, it WILL NOT be better than a Model 3 in the snow ever.�
Apr 1, 2016
chadever Buy snow tires if your worried about the snow... that will do more than FWD or AWD.�
Apr 1, 2016
JRP3 We always knew it would be.
False.�
Apr 1, 2016
AudubonB Unfortunately for the OP, he or she didn't take the time to review the discussions regarding front- and rear-wheel drive before posting and before crafting the thread-head.
As jrp3 succinctly and others a bit more expansively wrote, the use of front-wheel drive has prevailed amongst snow-country drivers over the past three dozen or so years. HOWEVER, it is only in the minds and pens of marketers, NOT in engineers, that FWD is inherently superior to RWD for traction and handling. It is a better way to compensate for the mass of an engine, and it does solve the design limitations that a driveline, and less so the transmission hump, imbue on a vehicle's interior. Tranny hump is less so because the FWD vehicle also needs that tranny.
Tesla's single-motored Model S platforms demonstratively showed that a rear drive, combined with the vehicle's other features like weight distribution and appropriate, responsive traction control, offers superb handling in snow. To be sure, that can be enhanced with dual, front and rear motors. But I will implacably assert that a RWD Model 3 will more than hold its own against any comparably-sized ICE vehicle that has FWD.
Anyone who wishes to dispute me, by the way, just has to bring out his front "wheel" drive snowmobile......I won't hold my breath.�
Apr 1, 2016
R.S It is a complete myth that FWD would be better in the snow. It is a generalization and true for most cars, just because they have more mass over the front axel than at the back.Thats because in a standard ICE the engine and transmission are the heaviest parts and in the front, most of the times, its a different story with a VW Beetle for example. As soon as the wight distribution shifts to the back, rear wheel drive is better. With a 50/50 weight distribution, both are equally good at low acceleration, but if you accelerate the momentum shifts weight back to the rear wheels.
Its just basic physics. The acceleration forwards can't be higher than the powered wheels static friction times the mass applied on that wheel divided by the vehicle mass. Once you overcome that point, the wheel starts to slip and it does not really matter if the front wheels slip, or the back wheels, it only decides if you go forwards into a tree, or backwards.�
Apr 1, 2016
Vitold We are not talking rocket science or theoretical physics. People driving RWD cars in snow and up in a ditch faster.
It's hard to dispute that if you've actually driven in a snow. I've had cars with RWD and FWD they both have their pluses and minuses but FWD is easier to handle in snow and is naturally tracking straight.
As to weight distribution, for FWD (and RWD) car it's best to have close to 50/50 ratio. 60/40 which you (falsely) claim makes FWD drive better actually causes under steer and it's not desirable.�
Apr 1, 2016
supersnoop FWD is "better" in the snow because the weight of the engine is on the drive wheels. That's irrelevant in the Model 3.�
Apr 1, 2016
Vitold Sure, acceleration in FWD is worse in snow. I like FWD as it is more controllable than RWD when slip occurs. With RWD all you can do is let go of the gas and steer towards the direction rear wheels take you. FWD cars tend to go straight when they slip.�
Apr 1, 2016
malcolm Dunno.
If only there was a group of RWD electric car owners we could PM.
Oh wait...
RWD Model S vs. AWD ICE in heavy winter�
Apr 1, 2016
Vitold You're comparing electric motor traction control with mechanical AWD. I'm comparing electric Bolt with electric Model 3 and also saying that FWD Model 3 would have better handling in snow than RWD Model 3.�
Apr 1, 2016
tga Um, someone from NM telling someone from AK about vehicle dynamics of snow driving?�
Apr 1, 2016
Vitold Check this out: New Mexico Ski Resort List | Terrain Comparison | OnTheSnow�
Apr 1, 2016
tga I know they get snow in NM (at least in the mountains), I just thought it was funny on the surface. No disrespect intended!�
Apr 1, 2016
roblab Not with decent traction control. I've been there, and I've been in a ditch. It was going around a curve, not spin of the rear or front wheels. It was never even close driving my old S, RWD w/ Traction Control.
The M3 will also have a four wheel drive option. Those who are concerned should consider this option.�
Apr 1, 2016
R.S Accelleration is the only reason why the slip occurs, or at least the one you fear. Slipping while cornering, if you don't accelerate while cornering, happens just the same in RWD and FWD, even AWD, cars. It happens because the traction brakes because you want to shift the cars momentum, that has nothing to do with what wheels are powered. If you don't accelerate in snowy corners, RWD should have no disadvantage, even if you prefer understeer. I think its more frightening to keep going even if you steer away, than to loos the back, but that might be personal preference.�
Apr 1, 2016
djplong The real key is what kind of traction control you have. I live in NH. You *never* see a FWD car fish-tailing on acceleration. You *DO* see RWD cars doing that BUT, I've never been in a car with advanced traction (beyond the "positraction" limited slip differential technology that dates back to the 1970s).
Remember also that RWD has to overcome the friction of the front wheels pushing into the ground. This is why every horse-draw cart to modern truck has the power source up front PULLING the load instead of pushing it.�
Apr 1, 2016
JRP3 Have you ever seen a RWD with a 50/50 weight distribution, or a FWD with most of the weight on the rear? Because you seem to be ignoring the fact that FWD vehicles have most of their weight over the drive wheels, while conventional RWD's do not. I did a 180 degree spin in a FWD car in the snow when I tried to slow down quickly because the back end came around on me. As far as the "friction" of the front wheels, how would that be any different between a FWD and RWD?�
Apr 1, 2016
78Lion Yea sure. It had nothing to do with keeping an eye on the horses while keeping an eye on the road at the same time. Geez�
Apr 1, 2016
Quant It's a frickin Chevy ! Enough said !
POS cars that do not stand the test of time and Rattles and Shakes after a couple of years and looks like it 15 years old after 2-3 years !
That's why people prefer MB, BMW etc. Because they don't wanna be seen driving a POS in something that is a POS.
Sorry, but it's true ! Deal with it !
Brand matter ! Visual appeal matters ! How it looks as it ages matters !
IMO they made a mistake not launching the EV as a Caddy !�
Apr 1, 2016
CHG-ON FWD...yuck.�
Apr 1, 2016
CuriousG This from an i3 that has those skinny tires too. Regen fishtailing sounds scary, then again heavy rain is scary to people in CA.�
Apr 1, 2016
hoang51 Honda S2000 has 50:50 weight distribution ratio and is a RWD: 2009 Honda S2000 Specifications and Features - Honda.com
That car is such a legend... <drools>
Plenty of differences. For an example, I have a FWD (Acura) and my brother has a RWD car (BMW). He has issues going up my slightly inclined driveway while I do not when there's some snow.�
Apr 1, 2016
Nozferat I guess you've never driven some of the best FWD cars to call the layout boring have you.�
Apr 1, 2016
Dwdnjck From now forward all comments about "tesla killers" should merely be answered by the question, "How long is their waiting list?�
Apr 1, 2016
PV1 I don't know how the i3 handles regen when a wheel slips, but my Mitsubishi i-MiEV does really good. Even though it is RWD with 45/55 weight, the car understeers most of the time. The only way to get the car to oversteer is to be in a turn and either floor it or pull the e-brake. As soon as a wheel slips (or you hit a hard bump) while regenning, it will reduce the effort for a second then ramp it back up. Combine that with a strict stability control system, and you have a very stable jellybean on just about any surface. RWD is superior when trying to climb a snow covered driveway, compared to an ICE and a hybrid in EV mode, in personal experience. Sure, FWD gives you more control when slipping, but RWD is less prone to slip in the first place.
If you want to compare RWD EV to FWD EV, compare the LEAF to the i-MiEV. Narrow tires are also a big factor, mainly by being able to bite down in the snow rather than float on top. There were several days where 4WD trucks and SUVs were having trouble on slush, but the i-MiEV held to the road like it was on rails, and this was with LRR all-season tires.�
Apr 1, 2016
JRP3 You missed the point of the question. What is the frictional difference of the front wheels on a FWD vs RWD car?
As for your Acura vs BMW comparison, again, what was the weight distribution of the two vehicles, and were they running the same tires?
I once owned a Chevy Chevette that I used as a winter beater, I put about 200lbs of weight in the rear and some aggressive snow tires on it, I could go anywhere.�
Apr 1, 2016
nd4spd569 I'm in SoCal and I plan on getting a AWD even though I don't need it. It's because despite the weight it's actually more efficient hence the higher mileage rating.�
Apr 1, 2016
steveho RWD vs FWD, weight distribution is only part of the question. The rest of the question has to do with the rate that the wheels are turning. Physics says that the faster turning wheels will always want to lead. So in FWD, that is a good thing in snow, and RWD is not as good in snow. This is given other factors being equal.
BUT, and here is the big but, when trying to slow down, RWD is better than FWD. The reason for this is when you take your foot off the accelerator in FWD, the front wheels are slowed down by engine drag (or regen motor drag) which means the rear wheels are turning faster, plus the fact that weight transfer goes to the front wheels, making it easier for the rear wheels to lose grip. This is what probably happened to you when you did a 180.
In RWD when you take your foot off the accelerator, the rear wheels slow down, dragging the vehicle slower without spinning out.
So inherently RWD is safer when trying to slow down on ice or snow, but FWD is better when accelerating. I prefer having more safety while slowing down than while accelerating.
Just my observations, but of course all of my observations are in gas cars with front engines. I've driven FWD, RWD, 4WD, and AWD and live in Minnesota.
-Steve�
Apr 1, 2016
AC238 Have you seen the videos of Tesla Model S RWD in snow? The low center of gravity and decent traction control more than compensate for the RWD. Just put some winter tires (Blizzaks/Nokians/etc) on it.
Anyway it is highly likely AWD will be offered. Why would you want torque steer?�
Apr 1, 2016
NeverFollow I think that you are missing the point:
When riding on snow, the type of tires is the most crucial, and especially when icy only studded tires can provide enough grip.
Also, the second you press on the brakes, having FWD, RWD, or AWD has no difference.
For the general usage:
FWD provides more regenerative braking, since all the weight goes to the front when breaking.
When the Electric engine is on the front axle, this translates in better range, which is premium for any EVs.�
Apr 1, 2016
JRP3 Not in the real world. Unless you're doing a lot of emergency type braking at the very edge of traction, the front wheels produce no more regen than the rear wheels, and, more importantly, regen is only a small fraction of range extension anyway.�
Apr 1, 2016
miatadan For me RWD is what I prefer. Even in electric cars I only looked at those that were RWD such as BMW i3 as the Tesla S is out of my price range. With the price of the Model 3 , the Audi A3 e-tron or BMW 330e plugin cars are not good value
Dan�
Apr 1, 2016
coei Coming from an appreciation of performance cars, I never really realized that there are a decent amount of people that actually prefer FWD over RWD. I have driven the GTI, Focus ST, and Mazdaspeed 3 (all performance spec FWD cars) and while still a blast to drive, the torque steer and understeer was always there reminding you that your front wheels are doing all of the work. Compare that to say a Mustang GT or (BMW) M3, and you have a completely different and much more fun to drive animal.
I do not know much about when and how Tesla's dual motor system activates, but I would have been very disappointed if the Model 3 ended up being FWD in single drive mode. The Model 3 having a focus on performance is really the only reason that I have any interest in EV's in the first place. Every other mass market EV is simply too slow for me.�
Apr 1, 2016
Lon12 I've been driving FWD cars in snow and ice since my RWD Datsun 610. I have to say my RWD Model S is by far the best winter vehicle I have ever driven.
I have been a passenger in crashes where the FWD engine braking caused the driver to lose control. I would not want to have regen on the front.
I love how I can test the road condition by simply lifting up on the accelerator well before I need to slow.�
Apr 2, 2016
jerry33 Note that it is more efficient only at highway speeds. It will be less efficient in stop and go traffic.�
Apr 2, 2016
jerry33 Given 50/50 weight distribution: none. ICE RWD vehicles with a front engine have a bad traction rep because, unless fully loaded, there isn't much weight on the rear axle. In addition, a poor choice of tires for winter use will make more difference.�
Apr 2, 2016
cokata Can't believe some people prefer FWD
It only gives you more traction initially and only if you have a front weight bias. If the car is 50/50 as i would think the Model 3 is RWD will give you better traction since the car will squat during acceleration giving more weight to the rear tires. Also if the car is not front heavy it reduces the chance of lift off oversteer. And all the electronic systems will keep you from sliding the rear if you apply too much throttle. For an EV there is 0 advantage to using FWD.�
Apr 2, 2016
JRP3 Yes, there is a reason you don't see any FWD dragsters.�
Apr 2, 2016
cokata True. The only reason FWD is used in production cars is that it's cheaper to package the whole drivetrain at the front + it saves space. Never used in a performance applications, Nissan tried it and failed miserably.�
Apr 2, 2016
Snowdog I have driven in over 20 years of Eastern Canadian Winters, and I dispute that as FUD based on ignorance.
Currently, my only car is Mazda MX-5 (AKA Miata) and it is the best handling snow car I have ever owned.
"RWD is terrible in snow" is a persistent myth, that I run into whenever people find out what I am driving in the winter: "How do you stay on the road?"
The reality is that this myth is based on experience/report of someone trying to drive a RWD sports car/sedan on summer tires in the snow, usually a car from decades ago with most of the weight over the front axle. There are two real issues. Summer tires and poor weight distribution. Neither of these issue should be present with decently balanced RWD car with good tires (MX-5, Tesla).
The only time I have ever lost control in the snow, was in a FWD car. FWD can lose control in slippery conditions while slowing down, as it is already front heavy, the weight transfer off the rear wheels makes it very easy to lose the back end, and it is extremely hard to catch this kind of slide. It is much more dangerous than RWD slide. This is exactly what happened to me in my FWD car, the only time I ever ended up ditching a car, in over 20 years of Winter driving.
RWD is not a problem. Poor tires and poor weight distribution are. RWD is actually better most of the time as you separate steering from accelerating, you have more traction available for each job.�
Apr 2, 2016
nd4spd569 Good to know. Being in SoCal I'd guess more than half my drivin is in traffic.... Yay. For autopilot. Now I'm reconsidering dual motors. Thanks for making this more difficult come options time!�
Apr 2, 2016
JonathanD FWD came into existence primarily for cost reasons, with some utility as a side benefit (no hump). In older cars it can be easier to handle in snow because you "point" in the direction you want to go with FWD, whereas RWD you have to understand how steer into a slide, etc. That's not really relevant any longer, because traction control has become so advanced. Between software and good snow tires, RWD is no longer an issue for snow driving. AWD really comes into play with steep grades where traction is more of an issue.�
Apr 2, 2016
Knobby I've been driving a RWD BMW 323i for 10 years in Alberta and Ontario for the last 8. With good snows on all fours, and its DSC, or ASC or whatever it is called it is great in snow. No problem at all. My MS is classic RWD, and I'm glad Model 3 is going to be available as RWD. I reserved one. Love RWD. It's great. FWD exists because it's a cost reduction for the manufacturers.�
Apr 2, 2016
CuriousG The base model will most likely be 60kWh battery. On the Model S, a 70kWh battery gets 230mi while the dual motor adds an additional 10mi. Yes it's more efficient but it might be a hard sell to some people given the ~$5k for dual motor option and minor performance bump in 0-60.�
Apr 2, 2016
tpoltron And because you can vector your thrust and even steer back and forth searching for traction when the snow is getting deep.....�
Apr 2, 2016
Xminus6 We have one too. It's clear to me that the car was sorry of cobbled together as the chassis clearly can't deal with the torque of the drivetrain. I like the car part but it does feel a lot like two cars stuck together.�
Apr 2, 2016
sandpiper No. FWD is better in the snow because you're steering the driving wheels. With a bit of skill, you can almost always recover traction by steering in the direction of travel and easing up on the throttle. Even if you're not skilled enough to do that, you can oversteer, give a bit of gas and the driving wheels will continue to drag you around the corner, mostly in the direction that you want to go. Since the rears don't drive, it's pretty tough to completely lose them.... stay off of the brakes and they will mostly still follow the fronts.
RWD is much more unstable... once you lose traction the rear end of the vehicle will pivot to the outside of the turn, causing the drive wheels to slide at an angle to the direction of vehicle travel. Once that's happened, there's no easy way to recover them. The best that you can do is to angle the steering wheels to the direction of travel, keep off of the brakes and hope like heck that the rear wheels hit a dry patch and pendulum back into line with the fronts.
As a (former!) teenager living up north, I spent much winter time goofing around in empty parking lots in a variety of cars, long before ABS or traction control. FWD is far safer and more stable.... to the point that it really isn't a whole lot of fun!�
Apr 2, 2016
sandpiper I disagree. Even with traction control RWD cars are a lot more twitchy in snow/ice. Goofing around in a loaner P85 I had no problem slipping out the rear end, and once it's gone, all off the traction control or ABS in the world won't make it come back. That's simply not true on a FWD car. And my AWD P85D is vastly better than the P85 was. Anybody who says that there is no difference doesn't spend 4-5 months per year driving on snow/ice.�
Apr 2, 2016
cokata As was said earlier a lift off oversteer (a problem that occurs mostly with front heavy cars) is much more dangerous than power induced oversteer from a RWD. It is also counter intuitive as i drive a FWD car in the winter in a corner you should never slow down to prevent nose dive which unloads the rear tires which have poor grip to begin with. RWD is just much better in every single way, it's not even close�
Apr 2, 2016
sandpiper I don't know how much winter you get in your area of Bulgaria, but I can assure you that you are mistaken. Once you've lost traction in a RWD vehicle your options are very limited... ease off of the gas, steer and hope. With FWD you always retain some degree of directional control because you apply a thrust vector in any direction.�
Apr 2, 2016
Caligula This is literally the first time I've seen someone complain about not having FWD.
![[?IMG]](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhDU5WV07DV1laPmqtcj8KOLi5z1ClnpM88TgCm7mzTeAwilWWWaemmC8OonZ3D8ccKc3FsIEMTGbGWJu_NSsJvVw_dKT4bOoueezH62rDOVeINqiP_Qfyr9NIeuxTAFviqqhAMPLPLmMC0/s1600/FWD+sucks.jpg)
�
Apr 2, 2016
cokata We get plenty of snow here. Power oversteer is very easy to manage, you just can't expect to slam the accelerator and catch the car. A FWD car will just understeer if you do that while a RWD will spin, but you should never really stomp on the accelerator.
All new cars have ESP + Traction control so you really have to force a slide. Ask anyone who has driven both FWD and RWD drive cars of the same calibre and i will be shocked if you find more than 10% of the people to prefer FWD.�
Apr 2, 2016
Vitold I agree. But this does not happen
I don't think anyone here says that RWD is a liability only that FWD is naturally easier to handle. So far the best argument for RWD I read is that electronic traction control combined with electric motor will not let the car fishtail. Another plus for RWD is lack of torque steer which I'd image would be huge with Tesla's power.�
Apr 2, 2016
Snowdog Well there is this guy that said RWD would put you in a ditch:
Oh Wait, that was you.�
Apr 2, 2016
Snowdog This is wrong, almost backwards.
Several of us have mentioned the Lift off oversteer problem of FWD. It's far more dangerous than power on oversteer of RWD.
You mentioned a couple of times that you were Goofing around in RWD making the rear end slide. You are initiating this by driving like an idiot. Heavy throttle while turning. Easy to avoid this, don't drive like an idiot.
With FWD, you get lift off oversteer. This is dangerous because it gets when you are trying to do the safe thing: Slow down. I related this a bit before, but as I said, this was the only time I ever put a car in the ditch.
In more detail I was driving on a trip and conditions were getting worse, and I kept slowing down, at one point I could feel the rear end getting loose and decided to slow even more but when I took my foot off the gas, the car did a 180, and sent me backwards across the opposing lane (lucky no cars coming the opposite direction), and ended up in the snow ditch on the opposite side of the road.
The worse thing is FWD-Lift off-oversteer is hard to play with and get used to, the way you can play with RWD oversteer. When it hits it takes you by surprise, and it is nearly impossible to recover from.
RWD oversteer - caused by goofing around/too much throttle, easy to avoid (don't use too much throttle), easy to correct, back off on throttle, steer into it.
FWD oversteer - caused by trying to be safe/slowing down, hard to avoid because slowing down makes sense in adverse conditions. When it hits, you are pretty much screwed, because you were already doing the safe thing slow down.�
Apr 3, 2016
sandpiper Right... and smoking is fine if you don't inhale. People get in accidents because they do DUMB THINGS.... accidentally. RWD behaves badly when you do dumb things. FWD is not idiot proof either, but it generally behaves better when you do do dumb things.
I would give a new driver a FWD over a RWD 10 times out of 10. A good/experienced driver who has an intuitive sense of the physics will compensate for the shortcomings of either. But, not everybody out there is like that. There are a lot of folks who drive in climates that see ice/snow only occasionally and so don't develop the muscle memory to respond quickly to something unexpected. And there are some who just don't get the mechanics and never will. For those folks, FWD is safer... for sure. Less fun perhaps, but safer.�
Apr 3, 2016
sandpiper I think you'll get more insight if you also ask WHY they would prefer it. RWD is admittedly much more fun on a performance car. And in good driving conditions, with reasonable behaviour they're both safe. But after 30 years of driving all sorts of cars & trucks in a very wintery climate, you will never convince me that RWD is a safe as FWD in ice & snow.�
Apr 3, 2016
cokata It looks like no one can convince you. Thankfully you are in the minority.�
Apr 3, 2016
Vitold Have you heard of the phrase "tyranny of the masses"?�
Apr 3, 2016
Snowdog Still ignoring that FWD can cause accidents even when you do sensible things(slow down in slippery snow). That is what makes it all the more dangerous.
It is also MUCH harder and more counter-intuitive (thus even more dangerous for a novice) to recover if you do lose the back end.�
Apr 3, 2016
JRP3 Still have not seen a reason explaining why the two wheel drive vehicles most dependent upon excellent traction, dragsters, are not FWD. If FWD gave you better traction than RWD you can bet the people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to get maximum traction would be using FWD. They don't.
Also, as I said earlier, the most unpredictable vehicle I've ever driven in the snow was FWD.�
Apr 3, 2016
Snow Drift It's more efficient to push from behind and let the front wheels steer. Do you pull a shopping cart?
RWD > FWD
In a front engined ICE during snow driving, FWD only gets better traction because the engine weight pushes down on the front wheels. It is also easy to overwhelm the front tires in a higher torque car as the tire contact patch attempts to grip and turn simultaneously. If a FWD loses traction you plow forward with the front end and hit the tree head-on.
Front engined RWD cars have a lighter rear end (less weight pushing down) so the back end can kick out easier (fishtail, drift, etc). For the untrained this can be very dangerous. "Snap oversteer." You let off the throttle, weight transfers forward, the rear lifts, and you spin - hitting the tree with the rear end.
Front engined AWD takes the benefits and limitations of both FWD and RWD to make a fairly balanced ride. Added grip up front, yet the ability to rotate the rear, performance oriented torque split to reduce front tire fatigue and added push from the rear. Yes, you add weight and complexity, but that is far outweighed by the benefits. I'm a three time Subaru WRX owner, so I'm biased.
Just buy the Dual Motor if you live where it rains, snows or has dirt/sand. (So everywhere).
***Use snow tires. AWD, RWD or FWD. No excuses.***�
Apr 3, 2016
cokata I will just say that if right now every car company begins to make bespoke electric cars, there won't be many FWD cars on the market.�
Apr 3, 2016
miatadan �
Apr 3, 2016
miatadan As far as winter driving goes, having winter tires more important than either FWD or RWD...
For those who say RWD not safe in winter? Guess you feel that in the 1920s to late 1970s when 95% cars, trucks etc all RWD no body drove in winter? Tires were a lot worse than now but people went to work every day, drove though storms and survived.
Ever car I owned has been RWD since I had my drivers license except 1 car - all ford mustangs or mazda miatas and I driven them in winter.
Dan�
Apr 3, 2016
timk225 Any competent driver (like me) has no need of FWD or RWD for snow driving. I drove old 1970's Mopar RWD cars in the snow for many years. If you understand the physics involved and don't drive like an idiot, you'll be fine. I once had a 1971 Plymouth Valiant from 1998-2004. With a rebuilt limited slip differential and a decent set of winter treads, that thing would go almost anywhere in the snow.
Anyone who "needs" FWD to drive in snow is the problem. Not the car or drivetrain layout itself. FWD came out as a sales gimmick in the early 80's, by American car manufacturers trying to copy European cars to get an edge in sales.
I've seen many soccer moms blasting down wet and snowy roads at crazy speeds because the car salesman told them their 4WD SUV could do that, and I've seen lots of SUVs in the ditch because of it.
The REAL problem is this whole noise, vibration, harshness crusade that car manufacturers have been on for the last 20 years. In the name of comfort and ease of operation, car makers want you to be able to drive without hearing the engine or feeling even the slightest bump.
Even the Tesla has problems like this. Some see the back up camera and auto-park features as helpful, but all it is really doing is make people forget how to drive. Anyone with half a brain can operate a car, but to really get into it, to really DRIVE, that takes some skill.�
Apr 4, 2016
sandpiper Because dragsters go in a straight line. RWD is undeniably better in situations like that.�
Apr 4, 2016
sandpiper Yes... and when people stop doing things that are stupid, I'm on your side. We don't, have never, and will never live in that world. In the meantime we can continue to expect people overeat, smoke, drink too much, do drugs, gamble, drive badly and do any one of an infinite number of possible stupid things to do. You may be the best driver in the world for all I know... but for the rest of us, I'm happy to see that fatality rates on the road have been declining steadily for the last 40 years. And that's mostly due to our vehicles doing a better job protecting people from their own stupidity.�
Apr 4, 2016
Caligula �
Không có nhận xét nào:
Đăng nhận xét