Jan 11, 2014
C-NRG-GO I just supercharged at Springfield, OR (9-10 pm 1/11/14). 7 out of the 8 stalls were occupied by hotel guests (not Tesla). The entire hotel parking lot appeared to be completely full. There are no signs telling people not to park there, just the small signs saying something like "Tesla Vehicle Charging". I think Tesla should ramp up the warnings - saying this is NOT hotel parking, even to the point of saying that your car may be towed. In any case, if all of the spaces are unavailable due to parked cars, someone needing a charge is going to be pretty unhappy... I thought you should know. (Also posted in General section on Tesla Motors forum.)�
Jan 11, 2014
Canuck I think a picture would speak a thousand words, as they say, but even more so when ICE vehicles are taking up superchargers.�
Jan 11, 2014
mitch672 The East Greenwich, RI Supercharger appears to have a similar issue, many of the 8 spaces are located just 20-30' from the front entrance of a Walgreens. Tesla has stated they don't want to be seen as hostile to ICE drivers.. The solution might be the all too familiar "orange cone", most ICE drivers will move on, the Model S driver will have to get out of their car and move the cone (replace it when you leave as well). Signage and orange cones is about all we are going to get...
East Greenwich, RI - notice the ICEing and Walgreens
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Jan 11, 2014
widodh That's just idiotic. Tesla might not want to be hostile against ICEs, but they are hostile to their own customers in this way!
Why not paint the parking spots green or something? That will scare people away.�
Jan 12, 2014
100thMonkey actually painting the pavement green has turned out to be one of the most effective ways of deterring ICE'ing, that and making it illegal!�
Jan 12, 2014
bsbomber I have been to the Glenwood Springs, CO Supercharger four times so far. It is at a Marriot complex and all 6 spots get ICED every night when the lot fills up!!! I wish Tesla would not build Superchargers at hotels.�
Jan 12, 2014
William13 Green paint and green cones are needed in crowded situations. Green paint will work in less crowded situations.�
Jan 12, 2014
snellenr So... has anyone gone in to speak with the hotel manager to see what they're willing to do?�
Jan 12, 2014
jerry33 Tesla is treading a fine line here. They sell the idea that it will bring in more customers, but if too many non-Tesla customers complain about no parking because of the Tesla spaces...
Hotels are not ideal spots for Superchargers unless they can be installed way out of the way, then there will only be a conflict a few days per year.�
Jan 12, 2014
Theshadows Let's just hope Elon notices this when he takes his trip. Maybe if he pulls into a supercharger and all the spots are ICEd then they will start doing something about it.�
Jan 12, 2014
ChadS Tesla's Supercharger network is amazing. Not just how fast the chargers are, but the handle design, how they take advantage of Tesla's large batteries for speed and spacing, how fast they are deploying them, the frictionless business and usage models, ownership by the automakers so there's no finger-pointing when there are problems, the co-location sites, etc. Tesla put a lot of thought in to this, and they are doing way better than anybody else in the space.
But, yeah. Using non-dedicated spots can be a huge problem. When I talked to them about site planning a year and a half ago, the key point I made was that unusable chargers are WORSE than no chargers. The chargers have to be available when people get there. This is something that could really bite them (though so far, we mostly seem to be seeing close calls rather than true problems, at least in terms of ICEing).
But at the same time, a startup company doing this sort of work has to watch costs, and they are getting the parking spots MUCH cheaper (as in, free) this way. Perhaps a Supercharger network with a few hiccups is better than no Supercharger network at all (assuming the cost difference meant whether the whole network was viable or not; I don't know). Maybe at some point - presumably after studying what they have for a while - they will be able to do something better.
I think the key to improvements going forward is to make sure Tesla knows when there are problems. So if you ever arrive at a Supercharger and can't charge (no matter what the reason), please make sure you either call the phone number on the chargers, or email 0[email�protected].
In the mean time...what would it take to make a 25' Supercharger extension cord just in case? :smile:�
Jan 12, 2014
Jeeps17 I don't want to sound sarcastic, but I'm relatively certain that when Elon does make his trip, SC / parking issues will have been sorted out for him in advance, VIP-style.
I would love to be wrong, and for him to notice Tesla spots being ICE'd with the inconvenience that ensues.�
Jan 12, 2014
wcalvin The hotel knows when things will become crowded. Ask them to deploy green-striped cones then (cones all the time will just encourage the disappearance of cones).�
Jan 12, 2014
sranger This simple solution is to quit putting them in prime parking locations. People are basically laze and will not park any farther than they have to. If they supercharger slots are the most far away, they will fill up last...�
Jan 12, 2014
Cottonwood That is what they did in Farmington, and I was happy to see it. Maybe, Tesla is learning...�
Jan 12, 2014
brianman I suspect you were kidding, but I'm actually curious if you feel like starting a thread on this one.�
Jan 12, 2014
dpeilow People have tried various things over there at charging points: Green paint on the ground, signage, cones. The only reasonably effective action is to warn of �100 fines and then enforce it.�
Jan 12, 2014
GeekGirls For conventional J1772 characters in most cases this is impractical because it means running long power lines from the nearest building. It's usually most cost-effective to put charging facilities near established buildings. I couldn't say whether the same logic applies for superchargers, or if the infrastructure requirements are met in different ways because of their extremely high power requirements.�
Jan 12, 2014
MarkR I've suggested elsewhere that a device be installed at Superchargers that will provide some alert (sound / flashing light) if an ICE parks in a Tesla space. I think this could be easily achieved because Teslas are internet-connected and have GPS.�
Jan 12, 2014
Cottonwood Because Superchargers need their own gigantic 500 kVA transformers (enough to power a BIG hotel), all new infrastructure has to be put in, and electrical connection cost is not usually an issue.�
Jan 12, 2014
mitch672 Tesla could provide such an extension cord at each SuperCharger site, inside a "locked box" of some kind, you would have to call them to request the combination or have them remotely open it. There are several issues with this:
1. Such a cable is going to be extremely heavy, and difficult to muscle around. I estimate it would weigh more than 75 pounds, given the gauge of the copper required.
2. Assumes you will temporarily "park" in an adjacent availble space, or worse, block several ICE cars parking lengthwise in front of them. If you block any other car, you will need to stay onsite, or I can see several confrontations happening, not good.
3. Stowing this cable back in it's lock box will also be a pain, and not all owners might bother. This cable is going to be quite costly, and leaving it outside it's lock box, it's certainly going to be stolen for it's copper content by thieves and scrapped.
4. Hotels are a different issue than the busy Walgreens I posted. Hotel guests are unlikely to be moving their car once they are parked, on the other hand, busy retail locations such as the Walgreens photo I posted above, if you wait 15-20 minutes, it's very likely one of the ICE drivers will leave, and you'll be able to charge.
I don't think the extension cable idea is going to happen, just too many issues, cost, liability (if the cable gets damaged and someone uses it and gets electrocuted/shocked)�
Jan 12, 2014
MarkR Your response to ChadS's suggestion of a 25' Supercharging extension cable was indeed thoughtful, but I think ChadS was joking. Please note the smiley at the end of his post. Please note mine too. No offense!
:biggrin:�
Jan 12, 2014
PokerBroker Perhaps some Model S owners should arrange to park their ice cars at a Supercharger in anticipation of Elon's arrival to show him just how inconvenient it is when you're on a road trip�
Jan 12, 2014
mitch672 I knowjust trying to show how impractical it is, to even consider it.
Signage, painting parking spots green, and as a last resort red/orange/green cones are about all we can hope for...�
Jan 12, 2014
GDH A supercharger in Springfield OR......uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ooooooooooooooooooooooooook.�
Jan 12, 2014
yobigd20 Let's organize a supercharger graffiti day. We'll form groups localized around the closest superchargers, making sure we cover them all. We'll go out, buy a bunch of green paint and ski masks. At 3:00am on National Plug-In Day we'll all meet at the superchargers in our electric cars and ski masks, and proceed to "graffiti" all the supercharger spots green on the pavement and go home. Then we'll meet later that day and pretend like nothing happened and be like 'OMG Tesla painted all the spots green for National Plug In Day! How cool is that!!!"
Another option is to start a TV show like Cheaters. We'll wait with a camera crew at their car that's parked in the supercharger spot, and when we see them proceeding towards the car we'll go running up with the camera crew and start getting in their faces and yelling at them "HOW DARE YOUUUUU!! YOU LIAR YOU CHEATER YOUUUUU [BLEEP] [BLEEP] [EXPLETIVE] [BLEEP]" and then slap the guy. or gal. in either case it'll make for some good reality TV.�
Jan 12, 2014
Cottonwood From musings on the strait and narrow. The spaces in Lusk, WY seem to be some of the prime spots at The Covered Wagon Motel parking lot, but somehow, I don't think being ICE'd here is going to be much of a problem...
�
Jan 12, 2014
yobigd20 Wow. Just Wow. A motel? Really? Well I don't know what it's like out there in WY, but AFAIK many states including mine use good ol tax payer money to house sex offenders in motels. I'd be careful with your kids around that station. Don't let them wander :/ http://westdeptford.patch.com/groups/sex-offenders/p/sex-offenders-residing-at-hotels-and-motels quoted right from the first line in this article:honestly that's the last place I'd be putting a supercharger station. I don't know what they were thinking.�
Jan 12, 2014
roblab And ICE cars are made of iron and steel. Not much of that in a Tesla. Easily magnetically detected, wouldn't you think? Don't need internet or GPS.�
Jan 12, 2014
stevezzzz Have you ever been to Lusk, WY, Yobigd20? It's a small town, 40 miles from the next small town in Wyoming, the state with the lowest population density of any in the lower 48. There are no Hiltons, Marriotts, or any other modern business hotels. The motel where the Superchargers are located is well rated. Why would you smear a place you don't know?
I'm not suggesting that Wyoming has no sex offenders; but I would be very surprised indeed if any of them were being put up at state expense at a motel in Lusk.�
Jan 12, 2014
bonnie Agree completely with stevezzzz. It's irresponsible to make a blanket statement like that about a motel, ANY motel, unless you have facts about that PARTICULAR motel.
- - - Updated - - -
Oh geez. You quoted someone's BLOG! C'mon, that's ridiculous. And they said hotels, too. So should Tesla keep superchargers away from all hotels, too?�
Jan 12, 2014
MarkR Might work nicely if a non-Tesla were to be found at a Supercharger . . . a magnetic detection device attached to a strobe, siren, or an automated tow truck to remove the offending ICE!�
Jan 12, 2014
rlang59 What people who talk about towing and painting the spots seem to be forgetting is that Tesla in most cases does not own the parking spaces the local property owner does. They have to work with them and do what they want, that is why you are starting to see spots that are also labeled as general parking for 30 minutes. Outside of talking to the manager of the property where these issues take place there really isn't much that can be done.�
Jan 12, 2014
Cottonwood Completely agree with SteveZzzz! Its great for Tesla to find this outpost in Wyoming. Here is a street view from Google Maps of the motel. They have picnic tables and a kids' play structure. This looks like a pretty nice piece of Americana to me.
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Jan 12, 2014
Roamer You have obviously never been to Wyoming. Pretty low tolerance for social parasites and idiots in a place like Wyoming. Cracked up to hear someone from the Northeast comment on something in Wyoming. I can pretty much guarantee you don't need to lock your doors in Lusk unless someone from the Northeast is passing thru.�
Jan 12, 2014
BobtheV Wonder what would happen if Teslas parked blocking access to gas pumps��
Jan 12, 2014
NigelM Ok, I think we're done with generalizations so let's all stay civil and not escalate this further.
Thanks.�
Jan 13, 2014
Theshadows I might be wrong but I thought the spaces were leased by Tesla.�
Jan 13, 2014
yobigd20 You're all right. I don't know a thing about Wyoming. And I wasn't looking to smear anyone or any place. I was just making a general statement, which is somewhat biased considering my home town (hate it, I'm moving soon) specifically has two or three motels (one of which is 3 blocks away from me) that the state of NJ decided to put up the most severe repeat offenders. And another motel that is 2 blocks from me in the other direction AFAIK used to be notorious for running some sort of, oh let's say 'lady-service'. God I hate NJ. Can't wait to get out. It can't happen soon enough. Perhaps I should move to WY if it's so peaceful and quiet�
Jan 13, 2014
rlang59 Right but leasing and owning are two different things, they still need to comply with the property owners wishes. I don't have a solution to the issue just adding data that should be considered in the discussion. Right now the only thing that can be done is talking to the property managers in the locations that this kind of this is happening. I just don't see what Tesla can/will do.�
Jan 13, 2014
Theshadows You can call Tesla too. This is from their supercharger FAQ. "A non-Tesla car is parked in a dedicated Supercharger stall, what should I do?
Please notify Tesla at (877) 798-3752."
Maybe we should call every time there is an ICE in the stall, not just when we don't have a spot to charge at. That way they know how serious the issue is.�
Jan 13, 2014
SeminoleFSU This goes for all EVSE stations in parking lots if you asked me. And Tesla should try to incorporate some type of camera system on each station, where all the spots are in field of view. If a non Tesla pulls up, a call should automatically go out to Police or parking enforcement�
Jan 13, 2014
rlang59 That's probably a good idea, but I'm not going to get my hopes up on anything coming of it. Of course since I primarily use the one in DE since I'm in NJ I probably will never have to call anyway.�
Jan 13, 2014
Owner I'm thinking that this may actually be a non-issue. Now, there probably is not a lot of Teslas at these hotels, so management and signage is not yet concerned.
One thing a lot of hotels with any parking issues is to ask for your license number. So in the event all the chargers are full when a Tesla arrives, you can inquire at the front desk. The hotel will likely know who the ICE person is and can give them a call.�
Jan 13, 2014
widodh And then the person says: "I'll be there in an hour!"
ICEs should simply not park in those spots. Tesla should arrange that when they are deploying the SuperChargers.�
Jan 13, 2014
RDoc According to Tech Crunch the agreement with Tesla for the Supercharging Partners program is that the parking spots are to be dedicated to Tesla cars. Now, what that means as far as towing, cones, etc. isn't at all clear, at least to me, so while there is an agreement, it may not have any practical effect.
From what I've seen, a lot of public Level 2 chargers have the same ICEing problems as well. Without any incentive to do otherwise, it seems likely that ICE drivers and parking space owners in many cases won't keep charging spaces free for BEV's.
This all really does raise some questions about the real utility of the Supercharging network as more Teslas are sold. While Supercharging will help a lot with range anxiety, if owner's experiences involve frequent significant waits for others charging and/or ICEing there may be a lot of public questioning about their practicality as primary transportation.�
Jan 13, 2014
rlang59 That article is from July and given that we are starting to see general parking/supercharger signs being installed at the newer locations I suspect that the agreement has changes somewhat.�
Jan 13, 2014
bonnie Surely Tesla doesn't want to go to the expense of putting in a supercharger without some minimal assurance from the property owner that it will be available to Tesla owners for charging.
I'd start with talking to them at the hotel and seeing if they can get a guest to move a car. They have some level of responsibility here, they aren't a passive player in all this. And of course, I'd call Tesla and let them know. It's not a great infrastructure if it isn't usable.
But I've learned something from this thread ... once I have my X and am on a roadtrip, if I'm counting on charging at a hotel location, I will call ahead of time and make sure that a spot is kept free from ICEing. In the nicest possible way. I shouldn't have to do that, but I'd rather do that than sit and stew over a bunch of hotel guests sleeping peacefully through the night, while I'm blocked from charging.�
Jan 13, 2014
wycolo Cheyenne, WY SC has 'drive in nose first between the arches' style of parking. Is this the first SC of this type? Could help keep ICErs out since they are parking in between weird fixtures.
Glenwood Sprgs CO - If you need to charge Fri or Sat eve I'd suggest calling ahead to Marriott Front Desk to clear a spot or two of ICErs, because I can guarantee they will all be ICEd. Clerk can check plate number and then call the room. Or ANY night. Lacking such success what you can do is DRIVE UP ONTO THE SIDEWALK and access the SC from the East Side. Pack a couple pieces firewood to help jump curbs. You will not be blocking sidewalk traffic since 99% is crossing at right angles (going between the 2 Marriotts).
@yobigd - I resemble that remark, my being born in Choisy!!
--�
Jan 13, 2014
napabill That only happens in Jersey. In Wyoming they just shoot them when they arrive in town.:tongue:�
Jan 13, 2014
4SUPER9 +1000
This is EXACTLY what we should do. I firmly believe that Tesla does care. Yet if they don't hear from us, they are less likely to take action. If most of us take the attitude of not bothering, they will never be fully aware. Sure, they follow some of these forums and are in tune to many of our needs, but speak up when there is a problem and eventually we'll get our better signage/green paint/cones/etc.�
Jan 13, 2014
detlefo Hotels create a unique problem in that iced spaces are likely to remain iced all night. If a hotel has too few spaces for guest parking I can understand their allowing icing by guests, however, this can create a serious problem for a tesla driver arriving late at night with no other options. This can be easily mitigated by coneing at least one space for charging only. At least this space will have turnover and will likely be available late at night. Certainly not an ideal solution, but it does give a traveling tesla an option.�
Jan 13, 2014
napabill I'm assuming this thread is dealing with stalls that are known to be set aside exclusively for Tesla charging? Several SC's I've visited, Harris Ranch most notably, have a mix of stalls exclusively for charging and those for 45 minute parking as well as charging. In order for TM to get some sites to agree to a SC installation I'm sure exclusivity was discussed. I'd hate to see the TMC Vigilante's "paint" a spot that is not intended for exclusive use. I would hope all signage would be clear.�
Jan 13, 2014
Gee-Man I think Tesla needs to install these in the Supercharger parking spaces:
bebarmatic Automatic parking space bar: Parking Boy
It could even be software-activated - just add the radio signal needed to make the barrier drop to the garage remote feature. Make it GPS-aware, and voila - a Model S drives up to a Supercharger space, the barrier automatically lowers itself, but stays blocked to any other car.�
Jan 13, 2014
AmpedRealtor To those of you who have encountered this situation - how many of you contacted the police to have the offending cars ticketed and/or towed?
I read a lot of complaints from owners, some posting photos of the offending ICE vehicles... yet, when asked, I find that very little (if any) have actually contacted the police or taken the time to educate themselves about the laws in their respective states. The situation won't fix itself and posting about it won't effect change. What will, however, is having a cop put a big fat ticket on the windshields of those other cars. Here in Arizona the fine for ICEing an EV spot is north of $300. And you know I'll be calling the police at the first opportunity, whether or not I need a charge, just to teach people a much needed lesson.�
Jan 13, 2014
Longhorn92 The problem is that I don't think it is illegal in many/some states, so calling the police or tow company wouldn't help. I have searched pretty extensively here in Illinois (including reading the Vehicle Code), and I cannot find anything stating that it is illegal for an ICE car to park in an EV charging space. I would love to be proved wrong.�
Jan 13, 2014
Brass Guy I was thinking that maybe on a road trip I should just keep a floor jack in the trunk well. An extra 100 lbs maybe. If the establishment won't or can't get an ICE owner to move, I call Tesla and they can't help, and I'm in a location the police won't have the car moved, then maybe I could just push it out of my way.
Maybe the car alarm will go off. Maybe somebody will care and come out to check it out though I doubt it.
Sure, I'd leave a nice note: "Sorry to have to move your car, but I was stranded when you parked in a charging spot."
Can I get in any legal trouble for moving a car if I do no damage? I might have to leave it blocking some other ICE cars.�
Jan 13, 2014
Trnsl8r Problem is there is no incentive for the hotel to do that. Weigh the option of blocking a paying guest from using a spot on an otherwise full parking lot so that the non-customer passing by in his Tesla can occupy that spot for 40 minutes. What's in it for the hotel owner?�
Jan 13, 2014
stevezzzz We have a three-pronged problem.
1. Education. Not enough people are aware of EVs and their charging needs. Once the general population equates ICEing an EV charging spot with blocking a gas pump, people will 'get it'.
2. Regulation. Until local jurisdictions put teeth into parking restrictions for EV charging bays, and put effort behind enforcement, nothing much will improve, because that's how education gets done.
3. Low usage (so far). There are too many empty charging spaces, too many hours of the day, for people who don't 'get it' (see #1) to feel a moral imperative to leave them open.
Improved regulation and enforcement, plus increasing utilization, plus other education initiatives (remember the trashy condition of highway shoulders before the "Don't Be a Litterbug" campaign came along?) will all be needed.
What can we, as owners, do?
1. Get out there and utilize the public charging infrastructure.
2. When you encounter an ICE'd EV charging space, notify Tesla (if it's a Supercharger), the business owner, and local law enforcement...whether or not you need a charge, and even if there's another space available for you.
3. Educate! Make the time to talk to people who take any interest in your charging activities. Don't be shy. We are EVangelists. Any effort you expend now is paying it forward to the future generations of EV owners who stand to benefit from improvements to the public charging infrastructure and its utility.
4. While charging, stay with your car or leave contact info for the next EV owner who comes along needing a charge. We're sharing a fledgling charging network, and it's up to us to make it work.�
Jan 13, 2014
Gizmotoy Tesla has to walk a tight line, here. On one hand, current owners expect to be able to charge at Superchargers and that those spots won't be ICEd. On the other, towing a car from a Supercharger spot potentially infuriates a potential future customer. If all the spots in the lot are full and only Supercharger spots are left, it gets even worse. They see empty spots just sitting there unused while they have nowhere to park, and wonder why EV owners should be getting special reserved spots. It's a tricky situation, especially if the spots aren't clearly marked and are in an overcrowded lot.�
Jan 13, 2014
Larry Chanin I just wanted to emphasize the point rlang59 makes. Tesla have what they call Dedicated parking and Enabled parking. As the name suggests Dedicated parking is dedicated to Tesla vehicles. Enabled parking are Supercharger stalls shared with non-Teslas, including gasoline vehicles. The Enabled spots are undoubtedly dictated by the host location and enforcement can vary from site to site.
Here's a photo of Florida's Enabled parking.
Larry�
Jan 13, 2014
EchoDelta You have a long experience with EVs and this is pragmatic and realistic.
Then it becomes a DIY reservation system; which is at risk when it scales beyond the EV early adopter community. "Hi Bonnie, welcome back. I had to keep some pesky Model S owners from using your spot!" Not sure Tesla wants a reservation-based system (formal or informal) to kick in because of constrained supply (real... or perceived! Has anyone ever been ICEd out of a SC?), so I'm curious how all this could be evolved with some nudges on their behalf.
Some things they could do:
- Supercharger on the maps should indicate how many chargers are being used and for how long when you are nearby, and how many have non-charging Tesla or otherwise cars parked in them. Blink,Chargepoint etc. have this automatic in-use bit available for 3rd party apps as well like plugshare.
- The superchargers should alert the lot owners as long as a non Tesla car is parked, as well as Tesla. Then a measurable SLA can be put in the contract terms for the space. The sensors to do this would be super cheap relative to the supercharger installation and can be done in privacy-conscious ways.
- Superchargers themselves should have a 24x7 customer support number clearly displayed; also in the car dash and app having a clear "problems, ICEd, etc? call 1800 NEED-AMP" for regular consumers to have a "so what now" next step. "Report an issue" should allow you to take a pic w the phone and submit it with some description.
- A more expensive alternative is putting a folding automatic 'orange cone/pole' that swings down as you approach only with a Tesla.
In the meantime, a quick call is a wise, polite and effective way to sensitize lot owners before there is an actual conflict/stressful situation.�
Jan 13, 2014
smartypnz Simple.
Install battery swappers and when the ICE car blocks - the swapper rips out the undercarriage thinking it's a battery.
No, just kidding.
Being ICE'd, as it is titled, can also be done by Tesla owners. As the volume gets bigger, a small problem I noticed at Folsom is also going to get bigger. Stopped there a couple of months ago in the early morning (after dawn). Another Tesla was there at a charge slot - no owner. We went to get coffee as ours charged. Upon return, the other Tesla owners arrived to get the car. They were staying at the motel across the street and had plugged in for the night.
These SC's at motels are going to be a problem - like having SC's at airports (and flying away for two weeks).�
Jan 13, 2014
bonnie I will, of course, say 'unless other Teslas are using all the spots'.
The property owners agreed to lease that property to Tesla in exchange for drawing people to their location. They DO have some responsibility here. Talking with them in a reasonable way is easy enough to do. If they refuse to do anything about it, Tesla should know. I suspect that will violate the terms of the lease agreement in some way.�
Jan 13, 2014
ItsNotAboutTheMoney As contention becomes more of a problem incidents like the above may be relatively less frequent. Just because those owners parked overnight when there's little use, doesn't mean they'd park there if they thought they'd block a spot.
For motels or hotels I'd hope that contention at nearby Superchargers would go hand-in-hand with more destination charging.�
Jan 13, 2014
Lyon How about a little info about the hotel in question? It's a Holiday Inn but they have several conference rooms in the building and host business lunches and the like. I'm pretty sure they have a Rotary club that meets there on a weekly basis. The Supercharger spots are quite close to those conference rooms and are probably much more attractive than the spots on the other side of the building (which are abundant but significantly farther away). Four of the 8 spots are reserved exclusively for Tesla charging, the other four aren't marked. My assumption is that Tesla and the Hotel's management company came up with a compromise given that there are times of the day when that lot is quite full.
The issue at this particular site is that folks coming in for an hour rotary lunch are likely running just on time or late, it's quite possibly raining (it's Oregon) and there are cars parked in front of some of the chargers. It's also possible that folks have done it enough with no consequences that they simply assume they can violate the signage. If there is an ICE parked in one of the reserved spots, whoever sees it should call Tesla and notify the hotel. The Hotel will have to inform its lunch guests that they may not use those spots unless charging and then they might have to tow someone. It certainly won't take many tows to get the message across. If I came up to a SC with signage indicating that the spots were reserved but found them all ICE'd, I would approach the hotel management with the request that they attempt to find the driver(s) of the offending vehicles and have them moved. Failing that I would ask them to have a car towed. I would be shocked to find out that the Hotel doesn't have some enforcement obligations as part of their contract with Tesla; after all, these stations aren't cheap and it would be foolish not to make each party's obligations clear before Tesla spent the money to instal them.
Here are some pictures of the site.
�
Jan 13, 2014
C-NRG-GO I'm the original poster. I called Tesla Support from the car as it was charging. They told me that they lease the space, so those spots should be reserved. He thanked me for calling and said that they were logging these events. If the one spot hadn't been open, I might have talked to the front desk of the Holiday Inn to see about getting a guest to move their car. I would have snapped a photo, but it was pouring at the time and no umbrella handy�
Jan 13, 2014
mitch672 I'll bet they'll eventually have to do something similar to this at one SuperCharger slot at a hotel/motel, it guarantees at least one charging spot for a Model S... But it's probably going to be just one stall, to not cause too much friction between the management, ICE drivers, and Model S owners, it's a good compromise.�
Jan 13, 2014
NoMoGas
Absolutely. I'll go you one better, advise customers at check in to remain clear of those spaces. (Most hotels have a "map" of some sort but any kind of notification could go a long way.
- - - Updated - - -
Wonder if there is a signage problem... it doesn't sat Tesla EV parking ONLY, All others subject to tow.�
Jan 13, 2014
Kraken I know they are loving having the landscaping behind the stalls and the stalls near the perimeter, but they really should start putting them in stalls that back up to another stall.... This way it would provide a backup spot. He one stall could be signed, while the other isn't. It would mean that a site of 8 chargers would require 16 stalls to be iced...
further, contact the law enforcement. If there isn't a rule now, there might be one soon if they keep getting calls stating they could be making easy revenue if a law was in effect...
also, while hotels aren't a great solution, the only way to really fix the overnight teslas plugged in is to have 2 additional spots on hpwc... Put signage saying they are for overnight charging tesla driving guests. Put signs on th� superchargers that they are short term charging spots only.�
Jan 14, 2014
PokerBroker Tesla owners should know better than to park overnight and take up a spot for eight hours. The appropriate thing to so is come back outside and move the car in one hour, or go down an hour early to plug it in. This is an affluent enough group to be able to figure that out.�
Jan 14, 2014
stevezzzz You're saying money and common sense are linked? :wink:�
Jan 14, 2014
PokerBroker Good point lol�
Jan 14, 2014
scaesare Get in legal trouble? Perhaps.
Get shot? Definitely.�
Jan 14, 2014
smartypnz Now that's a good strategy - especially for Tesla owners just passing through in the middle of the night.
What's a new term for being ICE'd by a Tesla?
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Jan 14, 2014
Theshadows Exactly, this shouldn't be an issue. I would hope that Tesla owners would have empathy for other owners that NEED that charge to get to their destination.�
Jan 14, 2014
PokerBroker AHOLEd?�
Jan 14, 2014
Cottonwood Let's take an example that is possible: An MS owner has been driving since waking up before dawn in South Dakota. They roll into Glenwood Springs and decide to check in the Marriott for good nights sleep before another big day of driving west tomorrow. They have every intention of moving the MS after dinner, but after getting to room, decide to take a shower, and order room service. After dinner with a little wine, still in the bath robe, and snow flying outside, they forget and leave the MS plugged in overnight.
The hotel is crowded and ICE's fill up the other 5 spots when I arrive at 2 am. Should I be mad at the MS, at the ICE's? Well, maybe annoyed, but what I will do is give the hotel clerk descriptions and license plate numbers of the ICE vehicles and see if they can get someone to move.
None of us are perfect, even if we a have the proof of choosing an EV. Let's all be patient and polite, but firm, to get our Supercharger spots for charging.�
Jan 14, 2014
scaesare The reality is that intended Supercharger usage patterns are somewhat antithetical to hotel guest needs. Supercharger stalls should be high-rate in & out turnover, hotels typically have low-rate long-term guests.
While I understand the need to try and find space to accommodate supercharger stalls, the reality is that they would be ideally located in parking spaces that are:
1) Not generally needed by ICE vehicles (the LEAST desirable parking spots at the far end of the lot)
2) If occasionally needed by ICE vehicles, in areas where parking stints are relatively short (convenience stores good; movie theaters & shopping malls bad)
3) Not likely to encourage long-term usage by other Teslas (hotels, airports, etc...)
So, if a hotel lot ends up being the best logistical choice for a Supercharger, in the best of all possible scenarios, they would be as far away from general hotel parking stalls as possible to accommodate road-tripping travelers.
The hotel would then install multiple separate Level-II chargers (taking advantage of Tesla's 2-for-1 HPWC deal, of course) for their overnight guests who can plug in for 8-12 hours. These spots should also be selected to reduce the likelihood of ICEing (altho' that tends to mean long electrical runs, making the install more expensive)
Unfortunately, I don't expect may hotels would do the latter... instead thinking "Why should we go through the hassle and expense when Tesla already has their slick super-gizmos in our lot?"�
Jan 14, 2014
Brass Guy All right, I'll need to figure out what owner is less likely to react. Probably choose a Pacer over a BMW.�
Jan 14, 2014
Trnsl8r Tesla owners maybe, but there is no protection from car reporters/bloggers...
From Electric Holiday Road Trip - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test
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Jan 14, 2014
napabill It's been said repeatedly, but posting your cell-phone # in the window of your MS would seem to solve this issue. If you decide to crash while charging you have the possibility of being awakened in the middle of the night to move your car. Seems like a fair exchange.�
Jan 14, 2014
Kraken Ive said it before.... But here goes nothing....
there are a lot of assumptions on this board that every model s driver is like the people on this board. In reality, we are the minority. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of people who haven't talked to another model s owner and are used to plugging in every night and going to sleep. The hotel locations invite that behavior. They might not even realize the troubles they might cause. They are just used to "oh a charger, I'll plug in for the night"... The only thing we can do is politely leave a note if we notice this behavior.�
Jan 14, 2014
Theshadows They should be used to people at gas stations filling up their car and leaving it at the pump to go inside, order a sandwich, hit the bathroom, grab some snacks, pay for their gas and all of the above while there is a line of people at the pumps waiting to fill up.
On top of knowing that, if they have ever planned a road trip in their EV they should absolutely know better.�
Jan 14, 2014
brianman I think there's a simple solution to icing of supercharger spots.
1. Implement Absurdly High suspension setting that's measured as N feet.
2. Put N foot curbs around each supercharger stall.
3. When approaching a supercharger stall, Model S automatically limits speed to <= 5mph and informs the driver that Absurdly High suspension setting is being engaged.�
Jan 15, 2014
wycolo +1
Marriott could have desk clerks park their OWN CARS in the TESLA bays, especially Friday and Saturday evenings. Much better to have friendly ICEing than unfriendly. At Glenwood Springs, CO the problem is not insufficient parking for guests, it is that the extra parking (huge!) is off to the west and not conveniently between the two Marriott buildings. Plus the dozen or so contractor's pickups, trailers and heavy equipment taking prime spots. Management just has to take a bit of supportive effort here and elsewhere.
> Absurdly HIGH Suspension Setting [brianman]
And sell MSes to the Cowboy Market, allowing them to drive around town (under 40 mph) at this Elevation. Would sell like hotcakes!
Congrats on post #10k, Brianman ! ! !
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Jan 15, 2014
Gizmotoy :crying: (see sig)�
Jan 15, 2014
howardc64 Here is an idea to aid this problem rather than relying on the etiquette of the collective
Tesla owner register credit card with Tesla (maybe require to use Supercharger even if free, could just do this for cars sold at some future date so current owners all remain happy)
Pay for remaining plugged into supercharger after full + some grace period
I know Tesla probably doesn't want to be police but it seems they have to deal with this as number of cars scale.�
Jan 15, 2014
tezco It may be that Tesla is concerned about vandalism and the safety of its customers such that an out-of-the-way install might be less desirable.�
Jan 17, 2014
Cottonwood When I was at the Glenwood Springs Supercharger on Wednesday, I noticed a couple of small orange cones by one of the stalls. I went in to thank the folks in the Marriott Residence Inn. The assistant manager was at the desk, and he gave me a nice, "you're welcome, we are seeing a couple of Teslas a day now," reply. He can see the Supercharger Stalls
Without prompting, he mentioned the problem of non-Tesla cars parking in the Charging Stalls. He said the small cones were temporary, and they were getting some custom cones to put out there any time the lot got busy. Nice to see the hotel being proactive. I told him how all of the Tesla owners coming through would appreciate their effort!�
Jan 17, 2014
AmpedRealtor Here is a great resource to look at the EV laws in your state. This is how I found out that AZ has a law on the books making ICE'ing an EV spot a $350 ticketable offense:
Alternative Fuels Data Center: State Laws and Incentives�
Jan 17, 2014
rlang59 That is the same thing that was being done at Darien North when I used it.�
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