Aug 15, 2012
Jack I'm new to this forum and joined as i was searching for info on finalizing my order (#880) for my Model S. I'm seeking advice on 'must haves' and what to avoid on the options list. There are threads for many of the individual options, but none that i'm aware of for an 'all up' one place to go to get advice on finalizing from owners (please advise if there is).
I'd appreciate any high level safety tips before finalizing my order. I expect this to be the last car i buy and want to get it right. Goodbye to HMC and OPEC. Thanks. Jack.�
Aug 15, 2012
contaygious What are you planning on getting?�
Aug 15, 2012
jerry33 About the only things that everyone agrees on is that if you are getting a white car, don't get the paint armour, and the pano roof has much better headroom, especially in the rear. The rest is really personal preference.�
Aug 15, 2012
Jack General production (not the performance model), thinking of silver, gray leather, lacewood, 85KW, 19" wheel (rep said performance tires wear after 8-10K miles and not so good for New England), most of the options - expect the S to last for a while.�
Aug 15, 2012
Tommy I remember reading in one of the posts that a Tesla employee commented that the pano roof and stereo upgrade were the most "bang for the buck" options. I ordered both.�
Aug 15, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla I ordered neither. Agree with Jerry that most of these options are a matter of personal taste.�
Aug 15, 2012
Jack Thanks - i've seen the advice on paint armour on white - but it's mixed on silver - this is one of the tougher calls - generally, spending this much without seeing the car is a bit of a challenge - haven't had an S event in the Boston area yet.�
Aug 15, 2012
Todd Burch Hi Jack, and welcome to the forums! It's about time you showed up here.
Regarding options, and which you should get, that's a can of worms and a personal decision. I just finalized last week and I'll give you my line of thinking:
First, the obvious ones:
Twin Chargers
Even without the twin chargers, you'll be able to use Tesla's Superchargers (assuming you're getting the 60 or 85 kWh versions), since they're DC (and the extra charger only doubles charging rate when charging with AC power (like that from a wall outlet).
As a general rule, if you anticipate needing to replenish hundreds of miles in just a few hours of charging at home--or if you anticipate making use of high power public chargers such as J1772, you might want to get the twin chargers (charges at 62 miles per hour). Otherwise, you'll be fine with the single charger (charges at half that, or 31 miles per hour).
My view: My round-trip commute is about 75 miles per day, and I rarely drive significantly more than that. I have no problem replenishing those 75 miles in about 2.5 hours overnight. In fact, overnight I can recharge the entire 300 mile range of an 85kWh battery.
If you're looking to save some money, go with the single charger unless you drive a LOT. Note that in order to take advantage of the twin charger rate, you'd also have to buy the High Power Wall Connector (HPWC). Avoiding this saves you $2,700.
Parcel Shelf
Relatively small percentage of total cost at $250. If you're worried about theft or privacy of the contents of your car, you might be interested in this. But frankly a bag or blanket can serve the same purpose. I passed on the parcel shelf, saving $250.
Paint Armor
Personal decision. I just decided that if I ensure that I have good following distance and don't race down gravel roads, I can minimize damage to the paint finish from road debris. I saw the paint armor protection on a few cars during the demo drives and thought it was pretty noticable. It adds to the challenge of cleaning the car, and is a not-insignificant purchase of $950. I skipped on this.
Rear Facing Seats
Unless you have a large family (larger than 5, with 2 young children), I'd skip this. Even if you do have a large family, do you want to put all 6 or 7 of them into the car? Sure it fits and its designed for it, but it doesn't seem like it'd be too comfortable. Skipping these seats saves $1500 and ensures you maximize cargo storage space.
Edit: Also, this is a bit like people who buy SUVs for that once-a-year roadtrip with the family, and then drive as a single driver the rest of the year. Doesn't seem to make sense to spend on an option that you almost never take advantage of. Honestly, how often will you need to have 6 or 7 people in your car, and how often will you know that 1 or 2 of those passengers will be in the age/height range as specified by the rear facing seats?
Active Air Suspension
You're P880, so unless you defer to 2013, you're getting the air suspension. I personally think it's worth it anyway, for both the improved ride quality and the ability to raise the car over obstacles (steep driveways, for example). For those with the choice, I'd probably recommend this unless you're on a tight budget.
Sound Studio
Depends on how important music is to you. Personally, I love music...so I'm getting this for $950. If you only listen to talk radio, or prefer silence when you drive, skip this. But if you like music, this is great value for the cost.
Tech Package
This is tricky, since the cost is not insignificant ($3750). I'm personally getting this, and most people seem to be as well. Let's look at the contents of this package (again, these are my opinions):
-Xenon Headlamps: Some here swear by the xenons, and feel the cost of the tech package is worth it just for the headlights alone. Honestly, while the xenons are nicer, it's not something that made me get this package. (Yes, opinions will differ. Others will say this is the one item that sold the tech package for them).
-Electrochromatic side mirrors: Again, not a big deal to me. Nice, but glare from headlights from the side mirrors is a relatively minor inconvenience for me.
-LED foglights: This is more of a "looks" thing for me than it is functional. I like the look of the fog lights..but really don't need them.
-Convenience lighting: Nice little touch, but again not a big deal.
-Power rear liftgate and automatic keyless entry: The only difference between standard entry and automatic keyless entry is that with the tech package you don't have to press a button on the fob to unlock the car...it senses your presence. Some see this as a big convenience item: you can approach the car with both hands full of groceries and it will unlock for you. But in the end, you still have to open the door, so it's not personally a big thing for me. Although it is kinda cool for the door handles to present themselves to you as you approach the car. It's a gimmicky cool item that you can show off to others. As for the powered liftgate, that's a relatively minor thing in my mind but it might be important to others.
-Turn-by-turn navigation with 7 years of free map updates: This has pretty good worth. Without it, you don't get turn-by-turn instructions.
-HD Backup camera: Nice, but without the tech package you get an SD camera, so the only difference is a little bit of resolution in the backup camera. Is that significant? If your budget's tight, probably not.
-Homelink: Automatically opens garage doors, turns on lights, opens gates, etc. for homes equipped with compatible hardware. Small convenience item in my mind...not a big deal if your budget's tight.
So if your budget's tight I'd probably pass on the tech package, but if I had to sacrifice somewhere I'd probably give up the air suspension before giving up the tech package.
Pano Roof
Another personal decision, although the pano roof gives rear passengers extra headroom and allows you to almost "put the top down". I think it's definitely worth it for $1500, and I think most people here find the pano roof worth the additional cost.
Edit: Pano roof also gets you the roof rack attachment points.
Leather
I think the leather's worth it @ $1500 unless you're on a really tight budget. It's a premium car...it should have leather! Plus you get seat warmers, more seat adjustment, seat memory...and more options for trim instead of just piano black. Although some greatly prefer cloth to avoid the hot/stickiness in summer, and higher maintenance of leather seats, the advantage of leather is that it's easier to clean and doesn't tend to retain smells like cloth does. This one's up to you.
21" Wheel Upgrade
This has a big impact on total cost of operation for the car, usability, and a slight impact on range. Personally, I went with the base 19" wheels. Reasons:
-21" tires are summer performance only. If you live in an area that gets cold, the rubber will not grip the road well and you'll have little traction. You would have to get a set of winter or all-season tires for the cold season, which are not available in 21" sizes. That means you'd have to purchase another set of wheels too. And you'd have to swap wheels in the cold season.
-The 21" tires are low-profile, which looks cool and improves cornering performance but increases the potential for wheel damage from potholes or "curbing".
-The 21" performance tires have a lower treadwear rating, so they won't last as long.
-The 21" tires are more expensive to replace.
-The 21" tires reduce the range by a few miles. Not dramatic, but worthy of note.
I guess that about covers it. Again, it's all up to you but hopefully this sums up a lot of different discussion threads and helps you reach a decision.�
Aug 15, 2012
Jack Thanks Todd - this is exactly what i was looking for and is much appreciated.�
Aug 15, 2012
Jason S I think Todd's assessment of the options is fair. If it isn't in the FAQ, it should be.�
Aug 15, 2012
chmod a+wrx Great review, Todd! ! ! !�
Aug 15, 2012
Liz G FYI - I decided to skip the paint armor and have a local professional do it. Couple of reasons:
1. I want the entire hood protected, Tesla only covers the front 24in
2. I wanted the edges wrapped, usually factory install just goes up to or almost up to the edge�
Aug 15, 2012
contaygious Liz are you wrapping the whole car? I'm considering this on white. I also noticed the tesla armor only covers a small part of the hood.�
Aug 15, 2012
Jack So how much does it cost to do it right?�
Aug 15, 2012
roblab My bid for entire hood, ONLY, was $800. I am not too worried about soft bumpers and lower areas. On my present car, just about all chips are on the hood, and the hood is what people look at.�
Aug 15, 2012
ModelS1079 Jack, Welcome, fellow Bostonian. I joined recently and the knowledge base folks on this forum have is invaluable. Loved Todd's review above - see also "Various Comments on Model S" thread. I signed my papers today - three years later. let me share that in the final days I made one big concession: I stepped down to a 60kWh battery to save money and allow me to take the tech and speaker packages and pano roof and air suspension. I added Twin Chargers which, at any station over 40A (including my home), will let me fly to a Full Charge and, along with Superchargers along the Boston NYC corridor (I presume), will leave me rarely concerned about range. I think! The key point is that Roadster owners had a 245 battery (version 2 - correct?) and I have not read about or met owners who ever expressed range concerns as owners. And I am certain - certain - I will love having 12 stereo speakers, all the Bling of the tech package, the perfect ride on Air suspension, and the blue sky above with Pano roof open. (Blue Sky - that could make the short-list for First Song). I surprised myself with this concession but - for me - it makes sense.�
Aug 16, 2012
Robert.Boston Double-check that gray is available without delaying your delivery; with your low number, that might be a problem. I think the black leather looks sharp with the silver.
Otherwise, I agree with Todd's summary. I've ordered:
- Green paint. I strongly prefer getting a real color, not something in the black/gray/silver/white range. The blue was a close contender, but too close to black and very similar to a lot of cars on the road. The brown got vetoed by my family as too odd.
- 85kWh. Needed weekly during much of the year to get between our homes in Boston and Maine.
- Standard non-performance. I can't rationalize ~$10k of extra costs given my personal driving style.
- 19" wheels. Best choice for New England's crappy roads.
- Tan leather. Close call with black, but I like the spacious feel of the Model S cabin, and the lighter color enhances the openness.
- Lacewood. The piano black looks like plastic, and the obeche looks like fake woodgrain plastic. Lacewood is unique to the Model S and adds a nice texture to the interior.
- Pano roof. My son is 6'4" and growing, so he'll need the rear headroom.
- Tech package. Lots of my driving in Maine is in places with dubious or non-existent cell coverage, so this gives me GPS everywhere and bright headlights to avoid moose.
- Air suspension. I want my car this year, and I'd want this anyway to drive safely down the long gravel road to my Maine property.
- Paint armor. See "long gravel road" above.
- Sound studio. An indulgence, but I'm trained musician and really appreciate good sound systems.
�
Aug 16, 2012
Liz G Contaygious - I asked for a bid that would cover everything that the factory was covering plus cover the entire hood and wrap all the edges. So far I have received 2 bids for this work: $1400 and $2000. The $2000 is a little high, but this was from the guy who does all the Lambos, Astons, etc for the high end dealership in town. So I'm guessing the 3rd bid I've asked for will come in around $1400. Either way for me the extra $money is worth it.
I sent the installer the specs posted on the Tesla forum.
Here is the exact quote that I received for the $1400 bid. Numbers listed below refer to the Tesla spec.
First, let me give you a quote on the factory coverage. The front numbers
1-8 would run $575.00 parts and labor. The rear bumper ledge (9) would be
$75. The cap top and pillars (13-14) would be $100. The rest of the
coverage (12 and 15-21) would be $125.
We would wrap all the edges at that price.
I would recommend covering the entire hood, entire fenders, and entire
bumper (same bumper coverage as before). That would be $1200 with wrapped
edges. At that time, some of the pieces (of 15-21) would be covered, so it
would eliminate that cost. In other words, with the entire front wrapped
and all the other pieces, you would be looking at $1400 TOTAL with wrapped
edges.�
Aug 16, 2012
mcornwell Clearly I'm in the wrong line of business. Does anyone else think the prices charged for this product/service are ridiculous?�
Aug 16, 2012
NigelM Agree. Someone I know did it himself and it looks like it'll protect the paint just as well as professional job:
:biggrin:�
Aug 16, 2012
nrcooled I vinyl wrapped my track motorcycle and it was a PITA! I would gladly pay someone the price quoted by Liz to save me the heartache. A good buddy of mine owns his own company that does vinyl wrapping so he will be doing mine. I will get him to work up a quote for anyone in the VA/MD/DC that would like to use his services.
Pic of the bike after it was wrapped:
�
Aug 16, 2012
Jaff I think the prices are in line mc.
This past spring, I had my Roadster re-wrapped...cost about $2,200 CAD
With respect to the Roadster's original wrap, Liz is bang on...the re-wrap was the same product as the original, but a way better job with respect to wrapping the seams around the doors, louvers, etc...wrapped all the way around the edges (not like the original wrap job which only wrapped up to the edges)...plus, included in the $2,200 price was getting the interior of the door jambs done protecting from the sand / gravel & slush & ice in the winter.
Having said that, all of my previous vehicles that had paint armour only had the lower fronts done (not the entire hood) and I never had a problem with paint chipping higher up than the armour covered.
�
Aug 16, 2012
DavidM I agree that Todd did an excellent job. I've now had 3 cars with paint armor. The protection it gives your front end is significant. Yes, it will fade over time and need to be removed and replaced, but that's probably after 4 or 5 years. Underneath, your paint will look like new. It's not just good protection from road dust and an occasional stone flying off the car or truck in front of you. Down here in Florida, it also protects your front end from love bugs and other insects that die on your bumper and hood. The sun and heat then bake the insects, forever ruining your paint.
If you don't opt for Tesla's paint armor, then you should definitely have someone else do the work. Don't leave your huge investment unprotected.�
Aug 16, 2012
mknox I'm taking a great big pass on the $1,000 CDN Paint Armor option. I have a guy that will do it using the same 3M materials for about $300. I saw his work recently on a co-worker's new Honda and it looks great.
Mike�
Aug 16, 2012
MikeK I should call my local paint film place and get a quote from them. They are very highly regarded. If it's in the $1400 range, then that may be the way to go, since wrapping the edges will provide fewer places for dust to collect and make the lines show.
They don't remove trim or anything when they do that, right?�
Aug 16, 2012
PhatCat Best laugh I've had on this forum.�
Aug 17, 2012
ddenboer Best advice I have heard from a Tesla rep so far is to get some extra paint armor material when applying your car pool lane stickers in California and apply it to the armor, not the body.�
Aug 17, 2012
MikeK Why? The stickers can be removed without paint damage, although it requires a little skill. If they're on the film, then somebody can steal them.�
Aug 17, 2012
Liz G Not that I'm aware of. From what I read they can actually apply it right over everything. Though installers may be different in their techniques so it wouldn't hurt to confirm when getting your quotes.�
Aug 17, 2012
contaygious No ugly sticker for me!�
Aug 19, 2012
Jack Thanks to all of you who provided the top level advice i was seeking. I particularly valued posts by Todd, Robert and 1079. This was by far the most valued resource for me in sorting out the details, and providing some level of comfort in purchasing a $100K product over the web without seeing it.
I signed paperwork yesterday. Some decisions were easy, some not at all - for anyone going through this process, here's my $0.02. I have never paid more than $20K for a car before, and drive a '97 CL (44K miles) and a '01 Accord EX. Both will last another 20 years at the rate i drive. The Tesla is a passion for me, and affordable now that my tuition bills are starting to wind down. This will almost certainly be the last car I buy, and want to do it right. So:
Easy Decisions:
- 85 KWH: Why spend this much without having maximum range? While i have a nil commute, i'd like to be able to get to NYC on one charge, back and forth from the Cape (can't wait for Cape Wind - at that time, 75% of the Cape will be powered by wind from what i read, which removes any doubt about the impact of an EV), and cross country upon retirement.
- Tech Package: Also a no-brainer. For me, the nav is the core driver - seems that the nav should have been included in the base package, but it's a core requirement, particularly if we try a cross-country. Very helpful in my wife's Prius even locally. Everything else is nice to have. Probably would have opted for it anyway.
- 19" Wheels: There was good information on this in this forum, and the rep (Mitchell, a recent grad from Tulane with Tesla for 2 months) strongly recommend the 19". Robert and Todd's comments supported this. The 21" wheels don't cut it in the winter - especially in New England - and are a costly option regarding tire replacement. Don't need the incremental performance anyway. So despite my family liking the 21" looks, this was among the easiest of decisions.
- Silver: Personal preference, but an easy choice. White/Black don't work for me in New England winters. Nor do the darker colors. Loved the silver color post, which made this another one of the no-brainer decisions.
- Regular Production (not the Performance Option): The way i drive, the 0-60 in 4.4 would only increase my wife's primeval screams and partner's calls for valium. So slightly different rationale than Robert, but also not worth the increment, not to mention forcing the 21" wheels.
A bit of thought decisions:
- Panoramic Roof: Initially, it wasn't obvious that it opened, or how it did. The rep indicated it was automatic and fit flush against the rear. Wasn't sure of the aerodynamic impact either. But at low speeds in great fall days here, it's a must. So this was one of the easier decisions. Good to see most of you opted for this. Looking forward to blue skies.
- Active Air Suspension: Based on my driving, i was leaning against this. The fact that it is mandatory this year (which i learned from this post - and confirm by the fact that i couldn't delete it from my order) made it non-decision. Now that i understand it better, I'd select it without doubt. Been in more than a few snow banks up here, not to mention a bit of off-road. Strongly recommend this for anyone up here based on what i've learned.
- Parcel Shelf: Cost was low enough, and nice to have the protection when parking downtown or by Fenway.
- HPWC: This one was interesting. Rep and many of you recommended against it, in that charging at 31 MPH versus 60 or so MPH would be sufficient for most / all circumstances. Assuming we all have alternative ICE cars, hard to image where this is indeed required. Still, based on the same rationale as opting for the 85 KWH option, why not have the capability for the few times you really need it (e.g., returning from NY and wanting a quick turn around for some social event), given the overall level of spend here (less than 3% of total cost). Go for it.
- Gray Leather: This was on the touger side for me. Not a fan of black - leather or not (summer heat, maintenance). Wish there were more fabric options, as i'm not a fan of leather. This resulted in severely limited set of choices with the Silver option, basically gray or nothing. I was not happy to see that gray might delay delivery (thanks Robert - i did not see the asterisk on my order), but don't feel there is much of a choice here. I see the forum for additional paint options - but think we need one for additional interiors. The sweeteners on the leather option helped, and as someone suggested, leather is expected on a car in this price range - so i guess this would have been the best choice - but i would have liked more options. As excited about delivery as i am, missing a couple of months of New England winter is ok too.
Lacewood: It was hard to visualize the look in the design center - zoom in/out would have helped. I relied on my family's opinion (which ruled out the wood) and comments in the forum in selecting lacewood over piano black. Hopefully, not a big deal - but not as comfortable with this decision as the others.
Harder Decsions for me:
- Sound Studio: I listen mostly to news or nothing, so paying more for a sound system didn't seem to make sense. However, comments above and by the rep indicated that this was one of the better values on the options list, and it would be foolish not to select it. And it goes up to 11. So in the spirit of getting it right, i opted for it - and tasked my kids with building a collection of 60's and classical MP3's. So i change my listening habits for this car.
- Paint Armour: Wow, i spend more time here than on any other choice, and went back and forth multiple times on this. Read the entire paint armour post several times, and see that we're quite divided on this, especially when considering the aftermarket options, not to mention the do-it-yourself option recommended by Nigel. I ended up staring at my '01 Accord, and thought it looked pretty good after 11 years of Boston area driving without protection (am i without doubt have a Boston driving style). So i deleted this one (BTW - i was great that Telsa provides 3 screens for checking your order before submitting, as i had deleted the sound system by mistake first).
Net: Yes, it's all personal preference. But in speding this much for a car with virtually no visibility into the details, especially if you're going to live with these decisions for 20+ years, it good to do your research. I'm grateful for this forum and now feel that i've made the best possible decisions for me. I hope to meet some of you in the new england area once we have delivery. Thanks again to everyone who posted here.�
Aug 19, 2012
Todd Burch Jack, congratulations on finalizing--it looks like you really thought everything through, which is great!
A few things:
Just for the sake of others who may read this thread:
-The performance option does not force the 21" wheels. You can "downgrade" to 19s even when getting the performance, although as of right now it doesn't give you any credit toward the cost.
-I was a little surprised about your mentioning black leather as requiring more maintenance. I got the black leather in particular to avoid the additional cleaning difficulties that come with lighter leather colors. But maybe you were referring to leather maintenance in general?
Finally, I think its awesome that you're having your kids put together an MP3 collection for you. I hope you enjoy it!�
Aug 19, 2012
Arnold Panz One other note on black leather in the heat -- Tesla is going to have an app out in a few months that will allow the owner to cool (or heat) the car as desired whenever you want, so if you are in a sunny, hot parking space in the summer, you can set the temp to 74 (or whatever) long before you get to your car so the cabin is cool when you enter. Just in case you'd otherwise perhaps want the black, don't let the heat affect your decision because it should be a non-issue.
Congrats, by the way! I like you logical approach to the ordering process.�
Aug 19, 2012
jkirkebo One option if one's getting a sig or per with 21" included but wants 19" at least for winter use is to get a separate set of 19" rims. They are very reasonably priced. Then put on either all-seasons or winter tires, depending on how severe the winter months are where you live. Use the 21" for the 6-8 summer months and the 19" for the 4-6 winter months. The incremental cost is just the rims, as using 19" tires in winter will let your 21" summer tires last much longer. The 19" tires are also cheaper, so the average tire cost is probably close to what 20" tires would cost.
The drawback is having to spend one hour in fall and one hour in spring to swap wheels, and having to store the spare set. But you can then keep one wheel of the other set in the car as a spare if you feel you need one.�
Aug 19, 2012
chmod a+wrx Jack-
Great line-by-line thoughts on your purchase!!!!
I am wondering if I can afford the 85 kWh.....because it sounds like I drive like you drive....not very far on a given day.....
I like good sound.....but I listen mostly to NPR in the morning time and stream music from my phone on the way home.....do I need the sound package???? Will have to hear how it sounds
Silver v. Blue.....probably silver.....I liked it even more after I collected all those silver pics.
Sounds like you are satisfied with your final purchase........maybe I'll have the motivation to go put down my reservation soon!!!!�
Aug 19, 2012
MikeK Congrats on finalizing! It is a tough job to configure the car without really having seen it in the configuration you are considering.
Before I chose white, I was thinking about silver. FWIW to others looking at this choice, silver/tan is a classic combination. I found photos of Porsches, Mercedes, and Aston Martins with this combo. It's certainly not very common, but that was going to be my choice if I went silver.�
Aug 19, 2012
ModelS1079 jack that is great. Love the explanation for choices. We will both be listening to more than Karl Castle with that audio upgrade ("chmoda+wrx" take note). MikeK, it is ironic that you showed me (us all) the videos of Blue and I never looked further. Still struggling a bit on 60 v 85, Twin Chargers, HPWC...would have to change paperwork to do anything. But opinions welcome (see also Charge Anxiety thread).�
Aug 19, 2012
MikeK I know! I still have an occasional pang about not choosing the blue. I sincerely hope that Tesla has all the body gap fit & flush stuff worked out at this point, because any issues are going to stick out like a sore thumb on white. I love the blue, but in the end I just didn't think that I would realistically maintain it well enough to keep it looking like it should.
The detailers I spoke with both told me that I would need to take special care to keep the blue looking sharp, while I could just take the white to the local car wash and get it polished up nicely once a year. I have enough demands on my time and attention at this point that I didn't want to add another.
But I will probably look longingly at any blue Model S that I see (especially with the tan interior) and wonder what might have been. ;-)�
Aug 20, 2012
Jack We're sure getting a lot of feedback from Roadster owners and the Tesla rep that the HPCW/Twin Chargers are not needed. I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but i can't get through that logic - per my post on the charging anxiety forum. The whole point of the S is range - the abiltiy to drive ~ 300 miles without a charge, and not be worried about having to switching to a ICE car due to charging on transitions. I have a daughter in school in Philly, which happens to be 300 miles from my home - it would be great to be able to go door to door without a charge, drive locally, and then get back without stopping. Same for my sister in DC. It will also be nice to save $100 in gas on such a trip (600/25*4). I will have my S for a long time - the incremental range is a no-brainer. If you're buying 300 miles of range, the charging equipment to support that seems appropriate to me.�
Aug 20, 2012
NigelM It's about the speed of charging and has nothing to do with range.�
Aug 20, 2012
Doug_G I'm a Roadster owner and I would get the dual chargers. Not for charging in my garage, because I'd rarely use it. No, it would be for road trips. There aren't going to be superchargers everywhere I go, and if I can make use of a 70A or 80A charge point I sure as heck will want to! Waiting for your car to charge gets rather tedious after a while. (I have a Sig reservation so I'm getting them regardless.)�
Aug 20, 2012
Jaff +1 for sure...charging at 30 amp on the road can be a bit of a cold shower imo...
�
Aug 20, 2012
teslasguy Jack, no need to worry. I live on the west side of Philly (West Chester), so
Stop by for a recharge anytime you're in the Philly area. I'm getting MSP with single charger and NEMA 14-50 outlet.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk�
Aug 20, 2012
Robert.Boston 70A charge points aren't exactly common, either.
Yesterday was the first day I could have used the twin chargers (crazy day of driving in both cars), but that would have required getting the HPCW wired up at my home, which in turn would have required upgrading my service panel from 100A to 200A. Ouch.
Jack, nice choices all around. Personally, I would have gone with the black leather on the silver; I have black leather in my current Audi, and the leather hides everything. But color choices are very individual, and I'm sure the gray will look great.�
Aug 20, 2012
brianman For those of us without infinite time available, these two are related.�
Aug 20, 2012
smorgasbord It'll be interesting to see how far Sun Country gets with its Electric Highway. Right now I'm thinking Tesla's promised SuperCharger network is going to pour water over plans to install 70amp chargers in the US, such as those promised by GoE3. I fully agree that 70 amps is better than 30 amps for Tesla owners, I just don't see the economics for companies installing them.
It would be great if Tesla owners with HPCs started a thread about sharing their power with other Tesla owners driving away from home. I don't have an HPC, so I shouldn't be the one to start the thread. If Tesla owners build up a decent network themselves, that would, of course, be a reason to get Twin Chargers.�
Aug 20, 2012
Rifleman Plugshare actually makes this really easy to do, you can even filter by Tesla Chargers.�
Aug 20, 2012
SCW-Greg Yeah we talked about this in a thread or two already. I suspect many Tesla owners will do this, but may only list a phone number to call and general area on the map, so as to advert the random/spontaneous driveway pull up. I plan on it, it's a great community of people.�
Aug 20, 2012
Rifleman That's exactly how I am sharing my 14-50 outlet right now.�
Aug 20, 2012
MikeK That's exactly the issue, and the reason I didn't get the dual chargers. I did a quick search on one of the online map sites to see where there were 70A chargers available, and there were hardly any. Definitely not many on routes that I wouldn't also expect to be covered by Superchargers.
And, I verified at the Menlo Park showroom that a second charger can be added later, so if this situation changes, it's relatively easy to retrofit to add that capability.�
Aug 20, 2012
Jaff I think it will be a while before Canada sees a coast to coast TMC supercharger network...big place & few EV's ...
I think a North American Tesla Owners's charge network is a great idea!
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Aug 20, 2012
pete8314 Just a note on this, based on a fairly unscientific study conducted yesterday at the Dallas Amped Drive, they had a Mod S on permanent display (Brown P85). The air temp for Dallas, in the shade where the car was was a fairly chilly (for Dallas) ~88f. In the time I was there, more or less 2 hours, the range on the car had decreased by 19 miles, meaning that to keep the air running in reasonably warm conditions burns about 10miles per hour (also during that time the display was on, the trunk was opened many times, audio system etc etc). As I say, far from conclusive, but for me it means that I can set my car to start cooling at 5pm having baked outside all day long in the office parking lot, and if I don't get to it til 6.30 or 7, it doesn't matter, still pleanty of range left.�
Aug 20, 2012
Arnold Panz Well done, Pete! I figure that 15-30 minutes to cool the car should be plenty, which based on your estimate would be around 5 miles of range, which is really minimal in the grand scheme of things. Even if I do it twice a day (for lunch and to go home) it's a total of 10 miles of lost range. Totally worth it to cool down a hot, black interior!�
Aug 20, 2012
MikeK Keep in mind, too, that a car on display like that also had the doors opened and closed many, many times, letting the conditioned air out. In a more realistic doors-closed environment, it probably would have done somewhat better.�
Aug 20, 2012
pete8314 Absolutely, although it was in the shade, whereas my car will be baking in the middle of a huge parking lot, so I figured 10miles an hour to run the AC might be fairly accurate. I could (literally) burn my hands on the alu trim inside my current car after a day in the Texas sun.�
Aug 20, 2012
mcornwell Ditto...
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Aug 20, 2012
ModelS1079 Indeed - how about a password-protected App for that? Password = last three digits of your VIN followed by R or S for the car type and your year of birth, accessing a Charge-Point-like network that simply gives us Tesla Owner's map of other owners with HPWC's and their email addresses. Bingo. Who's on this?�
Aug 21, 2012
ChrisgG if you don't luck your phone a password would be great. None the less, using Vins and Birthdays in a Password is a no no no no no go.�
Aug 21, 2012
Jack Independenty of your view on HPC, does anyone have experience with Solar City - Telsa had a check box on the order form, which i checked, and they called. I set up an appointment for an assessment. They indicated a $500 to $1500 range for installation and wiring depending on configuration (higher end for HPC). Any thoughts on this?�
Aug 21, 2012
contaygious i filled out the form and they never even contacted me so I just had a local guy do it for 500. I hear solar city is more expensive.�
Aug 21, 2012
brianman Especially when the VIN is in clear view to front windshield onlookers.�
Aug 22, 2012
ModelS1079 Oops. Sorry - bad idea. Such a fine line between stupid and clever. But you get the idea. App for HPWC charge sites would be excellent.
- - - Updated - - -
Jack I soke w solar city today. They claimed a fixed price $900 for N 14 50 or $1100 for the HPWC. They had no in between, 70A option. Odd was that the price was fixed even though I have a 70a circuit ready and even though I have already run the line to the garage. They kept telling me it would all take one visit and had, no interest in seeeing my set upnbefore providing an estimate. Looking at other options. FYI you and I live close enough we could use the same option so see me know and will do same. West coasters- solar city experience?�
Aug 26, 2012
gg_got_a_tesla My experience with SolarCity was great!
Preparing for your Model S: Selecting outlet, Solar City, etc. - Page 6�
Aug 27, 2012
teslasguy I made what I thought was an appointment for somone to come to my house to give me an estimate, but when the time came I got a phone call instead. He explained that they do everything over the phone and that's why they ask for pictures. I got the same quote for $900 to install 50 amp line and NEMA 14-50 outlet, and $1100 to install 100 amp line and HPWC. I then asked for a revised estimate to run 100 amp line from basement to garage with 100 amp subpanel in the garage. Then run a 50 amp line from garage subpanel to Nema 14-50 outlet located at front (entrance) of the garage. This would be closer to the car port and also set me up for easy access to another 14-50 outlet (from the new subpanel) in the future for an EV for my wife. I've been waiting for about two weeks now for a revised estimate. Part of that time was due to vacation of my rep.�
Aug 27, 2012
ModelS1079 Nice idea. Let us know how it goes with the estimate, please. Have been contemplating whether tis better to put 70A into one charger (can I do that?) or just go with a NEMA 14-50 outlet, or bump the circuit up to 100A and split into 2 NEMA 4-50 outlets for same future use. Model S in a few months but expect it'll be 5 years before my Model...Z arrives.�
Aug 27, 2012
Robert.Boston You can run 70A into the HPWC, but you'll also need the twin chargers to be able to fully utilize that. Based on what I've read from Roadster owners, it's extremely rare to need that much juice at home. So I'd vote for the lower-cost option of running only a NEMA 14-50 now, leaving 50A in reserve for a second line. Maybe even get two NEMA 14-50s installed now so that friends can charge alongside you.�
Aug 27, 2012
dsm363 I agree with Robert. Unless you can imagine an instance where you'll come home on near empty and need to turn around in 2 hours and go another 100 miles for example then you'll probably be fine with a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Installing 2 while they are there isn't a bad idea either as Robert said.�
Aug 27, 2012
pguerra I'm getting the car loaded but without the kids seats b/c life is short. But wow Todd's review about the options is wonderfully comprehensive! Thank you.�
Aug 27, 2012
ChrisHenryOC I don't have experience with Solar City for charger installations, but I did use them for my home solar panel installation, which was finished about a year ago. The service, on the whole, was less than satisfactory. They were (are?) super busy since they had recently landed their home depot in-store deal, and the entire process from initial conversation to job completion was almost 11 months. Single story home with a composite roof, with a relatively easy install. Their communication was pretty poor as well - I ended up telling the service people that I did not want to hear from my sales rep again as his facts were often less than factual. At one point, they wanted to reduce my system size due to city permit issues by about 20% capacity, but the price only went down by $200, on a system with a purchase price of 19k. Not cool. Eventually it all worked out and I got the system that I wanted in the size I wanted, but it was a hassle to get there. Hopefully they gave improved things, but my experience was not great.�
Aug 29, 2012
ModelS1079 One issue w Tesla and Solar City is that they are bound to discuss only Tesla and Solar City products re: charging. This has raised some confusion for me as it was difficult to tease out the possibility and cost of putting in a non-Tesla/SCity charger (or connector, as it is more accurately called). I need their advice as they know the car, but outside of a NEMA 14-50 and the High Poer Tesla WC, they can provide no real advice.
Simple question for a Tech-Enabled TMC Forum-er: I have 70A to my garage. While this would not fill J1772 or similar charger (70A out from 90A supply) to its full capacity, can I install this anyway and enjoy the higher charge rate (56A out, about 45mi/hour charging) and lower cost of install than the Tesla brand HPWC? Yes I plan twin chargers in my Model S to take advantage of this.�
Sep 3, 2012
neroden This is important information. I was considering getting the second charger just as an "insurance policy" in case there's suddenly a huge deployment of 70amp (or even 60amp) AC chargers. Which could happen, if some other car company decides to make that their standard charger, which could happen, or if some agency or non-profit or corporation decides that that's what to deploy, which could happen.
But if it can get installed later, then there's no particular reason to get it now. I can wait until the announcement of such a set of chargers and THEN get it added.�
Sep 3, 2012
spleen So what EVSE are you planning on using? The UMC? And if so, how were you going to plug your UMC into the 70 amp circuit? Or were you planning on purchasing a 3rd party EVSE to draw from the 70 amp circuit? I'd warn you that there are very few residential EVSEs that will support higher than a 40 amp circuit. Lloyd has one but I think his is a commercial Eaton that's rated for 70 amps and it was $3000+.�
Sep 3, 2012
Lloyd For my residence I bought on eBay a new in box TS-70 for$900. I added J1772 for about $400, and was able to keep 70 amps. For my office I felt it necessary to keep 70 amp minimum as a standard for the upcomming larger battery formats as with the Tesla madel S . The only unit that with credit card swiping for payment will do that is Eaton's EVSE! My cost was $4000 plus about $1000 in materials for installation, plus 1000 for a Bullard to protect the unit in the parking lot.
More locations need to install higher amperage EVSE's to make charge times reasonable for distance charging.�
Sep 3, 2012
spleen Thanks for the clarification, Lloyd. Forgot that your Eaton was at your office and was so expensive because of the credit card ability. Plus, it was even more expensive than I recalled (gulp). Agreed that I'd LOVE to see more high amperage EVSEs out and about.�
Sep 3, 2012
ModelS1079 Lloyd and Spleen, I have to note that after much thinking and reading, I am reminded that I should stick to what I know (don't ask) and not things electrical. So I decided - pending estimates/conversations with electricians over the coming few weeks - to spend the extra and put in a sweet, shiny Tesla-Branded HPWC; I may try and crank it up to to 100A in/80A out to enjoy the full 62mi/hr of charging for those rare-but-concerning times I'd like to juice up fast. As noted, am putting in Twin Chargers. Thanks for all your feedback and explanations. Have learned much, am humbled greatly.�
Sep 4, 2012
calsailor Just got off the phone with the 'configuration specialist'.
I wanted to change an option on my order and they were surprisingly resistant to making any change now the my MVPA was signed (signed last Thursday).
I just thought I would pass this along to everyone since previously it seemed Tesla was pretty receptive to changes.
....Not anymore.
So don't expect to be able to change things once you're locked in.�
Sep 4, 2012
teslasguy So, what is your P#?�
Sep 4, 2012
Trnsl8r Looking at his avatar it looks like 4218.�
Sep 4, 2012
Todd Burch Were you "upgrading" (higher cost options) or "downgrading" (lower cost?)
I suspect if upgrading they'd be ok with it, and downgrading not so much...unless it's a relatively minor difference.�
Sep 4, 2012
calsailor I was making the HUGE change of going from Silver 21s to the Gray 21s on my Performance model. No cost difference.
Given that I've seen some of the earlier reservation numbers be a little schizophrenic with changing their options back and forth I wanted to let everyone now that Tesla seems to be less easygoing about things and trying to hold you to your original configuration once the MVPA is signed.�
Sep 5, 2012
Todd Burch Odd. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Did you try going up the ladder a bit? Maybe they weren't sure how to handle the situation?�
Nov 12, 2012
kimbapooch Has anyone else verified that this is the case? This would be huge if high amp public charging stations become more commonplace.�
Nov 12, 2012
Robert.Boston We have heard this from other sources, yes. Tesla is encouraging people to buy them now, of course, and I have no doubt that installing a second charger afterwards will cost more than $1500.�
Nov 12, 2012
JakeP That's odd, I just changed an interior trim decor option last week, it was absolutely no problem, and was completely done and re-signed withing 24 hours. I am P4996, an 85kWh not far from your number.�
Jan 8, 2013
Jack Thanks again to Todd, Robert and everyone else who provided invaluable advice in helping me finalize my order.
I took delivery on 12-12-12, with Robert's Green S in front of mine on the truck.
Delivery was quite the experience - Enrique let me drive the S off the truck, which i really enjoyed (even if he had to stuff me through the window to get in the car on the 2nd level of the truck). I got to unwrap it, and sign the papers. It had 5 miles left after depleting on the cross-country drive. So good i had a 99 with a charge point right across the street which got me to 40 miles by end of day. Robert, i heard you had only 9 miles - hope you managed ok!
The S has exceeded my expectations in every way - after 3 years of anticipation, the reality is better than the promise. My 13 year old son Will has become even more of an enthusiast than me - and can cite every statistic.
Based on the help from this forum, i do not regret any configuration decision. While much of it is personal preference, there are some no-brainer decisions - and the thread above was my most valuable resource.
In retrospect:
- no brainers: 85 Kwh (espeically seeing the actual performance in near-0 conditions - charges to 235, delivers about 170-180 on particularly cold days), HPWC (which is still don't have, but really wish i did for convenience rather than performance - although the latter is nice too), 19" wheels (perhaps the most clear choice relative to the performance option), pano roof, sound system (i would not have opted for that without the advice here - but sure glad i did), and tech package. I can't imagine the S without each and every one of those options.
I'm delighted with the Silver/Gray combo - it was the first gray interior the store and delivery person saw, and they were impressed - and lacewood. I'm glad i did not get the paint guard - particularly after observing it in the Menlo Park store and inspecting some of my older ICE cars.
I continue to be more and more passionate about the car and experience. One of my clients is a German national, who came over from another building in his 325i with the top down in 25 degree weather when i told him i had the Tesla. After the rocket demo, he said it made him feel like he was home. Regarding the top down in 25 degree weather, i suggested to his boss that he was having severe difficulty with the superiority of American automotive engineered and should be given counseling.
Love my S!�
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