Aug 23, 2015
Matias Has your car shut down before it hits zero? This poll is mainly for those who have driven to low double or single digits.
I have read about a couple of cases, when car has shut down before reaching zero.
I have driven couple of times to red range and car has not stopped.�
Aug 23, 2015
jerry33 No, however the lowest rated range I've been to is 17.�
Aug 23, 2015
EdA I think my lowest is 21 or 23, and that's between two cars
�
Aug 23, 2015
dsm363 Once down to 7 and didn't shut down.�
Aug 23, 2015
bhuwan I know someone on here whose car went off at about 23. Turns out there was a bad cell block which Tesla repaired.�
Aug 23, 2015
imherkimer Have been to 0 twice, been below 10 on several occasions, have been once to -7 (scary). Car has never shut down yet.�
Aug 23, 2015
jerry33 This is like the last two ml of gas left. It just depends on the driving circumstances of that last little bit. Sometimes you can go quite far, and other times not.�
Aug 23, 2015
Griffinlair I've driven until 8 rated miles remaining. When I started the last leg of the trip 42 miles (if I recall correctly), I received a warning that I would reach my destination with less than 0. I immediately slowed down (approx 10 mph below the speed limit). Fortunately, very little traffic where I was. Over the next ~10 miles I began to recover range, and climbed above 0%. I reached my destination with 2% remaining. I had a backup location planned ~ 6 miles before my destination to charge, so I felt some range anxiety, but not much. However, I would have been pissed if it shut down with range showing.
However, now that I'm writing this, I just thought of a situation that could cause the car to shutdown early that I hadn't previously thought of. When I was running close, I was really babying my range, no quick accelerations, no high speed, i.e. Just feathering the throttle so gingerly to keep amp draw low. My old Prius would have killed me in a 1/4 race at that point. Anyway, let's assume I had ~10 miles of range remaining and I could see the supercharger 1/2 mile in the distance. I decided to gun it and caused the pack volts to drop low enough (if only for a moment) to cause the battery protection to disengage and shut me down. Maybe this would be a way where the rated range couldn't account for my sudden acceleration and resulting dropping of the battery volts into "danger" zone causing a shutdown.�
Aug 23, 2015
pgiralt Got down to 4 once. No issues.�
Aug 23, 2015
omarsultan What was the temp, perhaps these are cases where the pack heater kicked in unexpectedly? BTW, I have been down to 7, no issues.�
Aug 23, 2015
pox 1 Mile one time, been down to 5 miles a few times, down to 20 miles quite a bit. We need of more chargers in central Wyoming.
Every trip out of state as to be carefully planed out. With RV parks closing in the winter and being full often in the summer it's been kind of tricky going on long trips. I liked the challenge the first few times. It's getting a bit old now. When I ordered the car in December I was told there would be a bunch of destination chargers in a few months and super chargers later this year. Not looking good for winter travel me right now. I hope Tesla can expedite the super charger build out with all the new cash raised from the stock sale.�
Aug 23, 2015
stopcrazypp I suspect that is exactly the problem people have seen. The battery's voltage sags when you pull a lot of current (because there is internal resistance). It also sags in low temperature conditions. Thus when you are very close to "0" it's possible to trigger the pack to shut you down.�
Aug 23, 2015
Sparrow My car was dropped off by a transport 2.5 miles from my home with 0 miles of range. I was afraid to drive the car home so the Delivery Specialist did it and we made it with no issues. Had to charge up in my garage for about an hour before he could show me the car though.
Have not been close to zero since that first day.�
Aug 23, 2015
mspohr Lowest I've been is 7 miles (in winter, snowing, heat off, jackets on) but made it just fine.�
Aug 23, 2015
David99 Many times to zero and sometimes beyond. Never did the car shut down, even when I went further. The key thing is how you drive and how you have been driving before. I have heard of only two cases where the car shut down before it said zero and in both cases they were pushing it. Going 70 uphill when there is only 4 miles left is asking for it. A battery do not work like a gas tank. An ICE has 100% power until the last drop of gasoline. A batter does not work that way, It gets weaker the lower the level of charge is. The voltage drops and trying to draw lots of power from it when near empty is causing massive voltage drops and is harmful to the battery. If you drive carefully for the last 30 miles and mostly avoid strong acceleration you can definitely make it to zero and often beyond.
Rated range is based on conservative driving. We all know better to expect that exact range when we drive normally. With that in mind and know that the battery gets weak towards the end, it is really silly to expect the battery to deliver rated range when you try to go fast on those last 5 miles pulling a lot of power from it.
The trip planner warns you to drive slowly to reach your destination one it predicts that the battery level will be under 7% at the end. That should give you a good clue that going down to zero is risky�
Aug 23, 2015
Barry Just wondering why you let it go to such low levels?
From what I've read, it's as unhealthy for the pack to go to 0 as it is to sit at 100%. Correct?�
Aug 23, 2015
cgiGuy Well, I'm the only one who answered yes, so far. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that this happened to me after about 2 1/2 years of ownership.
I had 3 miles remaining on the dash and I was about a mile from home driving on a 40 mph road, so I made a bad assumption that I would make it ok. It immediately gave the "pull over, shutting down" (or something like that) warning when it hit 2 miles remaining and all power was gone from the accelerator. Luckily, I had enough speed that I was able to coast to a safe place to stop.
Tesla initially tried telling me the tow fees would be my responsibility, since they don't cover running out of juice. Once I explained that, according to the car, I still had 2 miles left, they agreed to cover it, but also said that this was normal behavior.
�
Aug 23, 2015
jerry33 It is, but because of anti-bricking it never actually gets to zero. Nevertheless, the cells will heat up more at low SOC (metre is orange or red) as compared to delivering the same amount of power at high SOC. My guess is that most cases of very low SOC are due to:
1. Unexpected weather (particularly headwinds).
2. A wrong turn added additional miles to the trip.
3. Trying to speed up a trip by only charging just enough to make it to the next SC.
It probably takes a combination of two of these to get you down to very low (in my case it was #1 and #2).�
Aug 23, 2015
mmccord Don't you get the yellow line limiting pack output once you drop below 20ish miles remaining? I seem to recall this from my one stint below 20 rm (caused by primary & backup chademo chargers being offline).�
Aug 23, 2015
jerry33 The last time I got it, it was at forty miles.�
Aug 23, 2015
mmccord Ah yes, I thought I had seen it on other occasions. Which brings up my oft-used joke that at 15% battery remaining, my Model S turns into a fully charged Nissan Leaf.�
Aug 23, 2015
wk057 I haven't had time to look, but in the manual anywhere is this behavior described?
I've drive my cars down to 1 rated mile on several occasions, and down below 10 on several more than that. If the car ever cuts off at > 0 rated miles showing I'm going to be pretty angry.
To this, I think Tesla really needs to expose better battery data. While many people wouldn't know what to do with them, I personally would like to see pack voltage, max/min cell voltages, estimate kWh in/out, etc about the battery pack. This way I don't have to rely on this miles display at all if I don't want to.�
Aug 23, 2015
bollar Wow, that's the first time I've seen that in the summer.�
Aug 23, 2015
Jason S Been to negative 1, once. Few times below 30. Always fine.�
Aug 23, 2015
Btrflyl8e Been down to 6, no problem�
Aug 23, 2015
ecarfan No, Tesla should not provide more detailed battery data because it would only get the average (average level of knowledge about EVs) user into trouble and the car needs to be designed for the below average user since that is a large fraction of the population.
You are a way above average EV user, and it would not make sense for Tesla to design a car and a UI for your level of knowledge. It is a product for the mass market, and needs to be designed with that in mind.�
Aug 23, 2015
Jason S Considering where you were with the hills + stop signs... I'm not surprised. Also averaging 357wh/m on trip at 97F while using 19" tires, that's pushing it. Those previous miles were prolly on the freeway, so the range algorithm didn't have a chance to refigure. Very close!
Glad it went relatively smoothly tho. :smile:
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I've found that knowledge of the area (elevation changes, etc) plus the average wh/m for 5/15/30 miles) is plenty of info to get an idea of whether I need to charge or can make it to next stop. Pack voltage + min/max is just noise to the calculations already being displayed for me.�
Aug 23, 2015
imherkimer The energy graph and projected range are very useful when at the low end of the battery.
I find that below 50 miles remaining rated range it is more useful when selected for "instant" projected range, rather than the "average" setting over the last 30/15/5 miles.
When battery is low the instant range projection gives you an accurate graphic of your power draw. And you can "see" the difference you get with driving behavior, terrain, and conditions such as wind or rain.
The difference in usage by slowing down, especially when going uphill, is visualized.
The instant feedback assists in discovering acceleration techniques that help to achieve more range.
By watching the energy graph projected range, for instance, I found it interesting that the range seems significantly better when accelerating with "pulses" rather than a slow steady draw.
With two or three modest "pulses' to arrive at a target speed, and then hold steady, the graph shows less overall energy output. Slowing on uphill with pulses to recover some velocity while still allowing overall speed to reduce, then allowing speed to gather (within limits) on a downhill stretch to add momentum to the next climb.
(How often, and for how long you can keep the orange/green energy line near flat or invisible? i.e. "coasting" but not in neutral.)
The timing and strength of acceleration pulses make a difference as well when transitioning down and uphill.
On highway, getting to cruising speed using gentle pulses seems to show less on the graph line, than a slow steady increase in speed.
The technique of pulsing is not preferable for passengers, but can be useful when needing to maximize range.�
Aug 23, 2015
jerry33 I'm less certain of that. Technology flows downhill, so what the leaders/professionals do today, the masses do tomorrow. Making something that the above average person really likes will inspire that person to be an evangelist and others will seek to imitate him. Dumbing down the interface and providing less information is not one of those things. The best thing would be to have the ability to configure the display the way you want it. A checkbox for each item wanted, leave unchecked for those items not wanted.
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True but the power metre is very useful.�
Aug 23, 2015
smsprague 
No issues but I was nervous. Big accident on I10 made the last 5 miles take an hour.�
Aug 23, 2015
SmartElectric On the same 2500 km road trip Toronto <-> New York, three days into ownership, we twice got below 15% and on the last leg we got down to 7% remaining.
On the last leg with low state of charge, I saw the dotted line on the dash showing maximum available power, and it was still sufficient to keep going above highway speeds.
Since that trip, only got below 20% once.
My wife tells me that she is comfortable when her car says 150 km remaining rated range when she arrives back in the driveway, otherwise, it's too close. That's why the car will never be tested to the limit unless I am driving...�
Aug 23, 2015
NigelM Actually the car never cuts out above zero, but when the battery pack is low remaining energy can get used up extremely quickly due to external conditions. If you drive down to 1 mile remaining often enough, sooner or later you'll probably get caught out.�
Aug 23, 2015
bollar The picture in message 17 from CgiGuy suggests otherwise. That's an "oops," I'd say.�
Aug 23, 2015
joer00 Went down a few times to zero , never shut down so far.�
Aug 23, 2015
wk057 They're welcome to expose, for lack of a better term, dumbed-down info for the masses. Doesn't mean there can't be an option to expose the gory details for me and the others who want to use them. Seems like it would be *easier* to expose the raw data rather than compute other info based on it anyway, so why not?�
Aug 23, 2015
dsm363 Set it to percentage then. If you are at 1% you know you don't have much farther to go. The rated range doesn't mean you'll go as far as t says.�
Aug 23, 2015
511keV Exactly, having additional data available via an option setting to those users
that want it is not an unreasonable request. Heck, the mothership is getting
it along with my location so why shouldn't I get to see my data from my MS?�
Aug 23, 2015
NigelM See post #27 re conditions.�
Aug 23, 2015
ohaq 2,3 times below 5mph. Couple of times below 10mph and once 0mph.
�
Aug 23, 2015
FlasherZ I've been to "CHARGE NOW" twice. The first time I was able to do another 2 miles (up and down my lane road, where I felt safe doing it).
I do know of someone whose car shut down with some miles remaining. Tesla covered the tow, pulled the logs, and sent them to engineering for analysis and study.�
Aug 23, 2015
Lloyd I drive to <10 miles on a pretty regular basis (monthly). Charge now twice, past zero once and never had a tow due to charge.�
Aug 24, 2015
Max* I've hit 5-7 miles I think (2%), didn't shut down, but I was nervous.�
Aug 24, 2015
tezzla I've had my P85 down to negative 8 once. Luckily my wife was sleeping, so no drama!�
Aug 24, 2015
mknox Last winter, after about an hour on the road, I got to about 20 Rated Miles and started getting dire warnings about Charging Now, Power Reduced and something about the battery being too cold. There were both warnings on the center dash as well as pop-ups on the 17" that I had to acknowledge. I was not in Range Mode, and had been driving for some time, so the "Cold" warning was a bit of a head scratcher. It was cold, but not nearly as cold as it gets around here. Maybe just a bit below freezing. All this happened about 1/4 mile from my house, so I just drove home and plugged in. I would have been worrisome if I was still, say, 15 miles out.�
Aug 24, 2015
tomas I voted NO because I've been to 8 once... but it is not something I would do regularly, and I would have no faith in numbers below 5. Face it, 5 is 2% of total range. I'm not trusting any estimation algorithm to be more accurate than 98%.�
Aug 24, 2015
mknox I looked and did snap a photo of one of the pop-ups I got. This was around 20 Rated Miles:
�
Aug 24, 2015
Rlsarch I have been waiting for this thread for some time now. Never have had a shut down.
Have been to -3 before, meaning I had to go three miles beyond 0 to get to the next SC, made it! Like a Seinfeld episode riding on empty baby!�
Aug 24, 2015
RAM_Eh I have been at Zero twice. Once with 500 Yards to go to the charger and Once with 11KM to the charger ( 7 Miles).�
Aug 24, 2015
mspohr I get this message whenever I stop the car and the miles are low. I think I've seen it as high as about 50 miles. I also get it more often in the winter when it tells me to charge now rather than waiting for the battery to get cold.�
Aug 24, 2015
mknox In my case, I wasn't stopped. I had just pulled off the freeway onto surface streets about 2 miles from my house when it popped up. I cleared it and it came up again just as I was pulling into my garage.�
Aug 24, 2015
Rlsarch Maybe that is a better thread to have, "How Far Beyond Zero Have You Gone?" :scared:�
Aug 24, 2015
tomas Right, and THAT wouldn't provoke some foolish behavior, would it?�
Aug 24, 2015
Rlsarch Absolutly, but still good information to have.�
Aug 24, 2015
Tyl No. .... I have been sub zero a few times. The winds outta Indio caught me off guard once and the other time I was going too fast for too long without checking the distance to next supercharger frequently. Great car, great music and I lost my situational awareness as I sailed along. Thankfully I slowed down and only ran sub zero about seven miles to get me to Cabazon CA and about four miles to get to Tejon CA. Slow like 30mph, flashers on, slow lane, embarrassed. 59000 miles so far and I hope my rookie days are behind me! Great planning is my best advise. I like to arrive superchargers with very few miles remaining when traveling long distances to get the speedy 0 to 150 supercharge.... keeps my longest drives to 13-14 hours!!�
Aug 24, 2015
yobigd20 i always wondered why this message would come up when I get low and its like 90-100 degrees outside. do the batteries freeze or something at low state of charge? begs the question what is the temperature of a battery cell at 0% and what is it at 100%?�
Aug 24, 2015
mknox Interesting. I've only seen it the one time, and I was low (20 Rated Miles) and it was cold. Maybe it's just a "generic" low battery alert???�
Aug 25, 2015
tliving Got down to 2 rated left and fortunately pulled in to a SC. Never again!
�
Aug 25, 2015
Chris TX 15 miles for me. Not proud of it, but I made it to the Supercharger. It's very slow putting the charge back on the battery until it gets up to a safe "normal Supercharger" charge level. I haven't noticed a drop in range after it, as well.�
Aug 26, 2015
Rocky_H I don�t ever want to be �that guy� whose Tesla had to get towed, so I am cautious enough that I will never let it get low enough to go below 0. I was on a trip where I did get caught a bit by surprise with some snow and wind. All of the traffic on the highway had to slow down to about 45mph for a while because of low visibility, and then when everyone else got to speed up more, I stayed at about 53mph because I had lost a lot of my buffer to the increased energy use. I got to my next charging stop with about 20 miles left. I also didn�t want to push it down any lower because this was not a Supercharger stop, and I was going to have to kill about 4 hours on a 14-50 outlet to finish getting home late that night. I�ve been down to a little below 50 a couple of other times, and then once when I was on the highway getting near home, I went ahead and pushed the speed some on purpose just to use up some buffer and watch the energy measurements and arrived home with about 9 or 10 left.
There is so much feedback and information you get with this car that if you pay a bit of attention as you go (not just at the last minute), you can be pretty safe to avoid running empty.�
Aug 27, 2015
Matias At which voltage Tesla stops?�
Aug 27, 2015
Rocky_H
They won't publish that, so no one knows exactly.�
Aug 27, 2015
mspohr Probably not just voltage but may also take into account temperature and other stuff.
Anyway, it's not good to run down to zero (or even close).�
Aug 31, 2015
teslasguy Got down to minus 12 miles about 2 1/2 years ago. Made it ok to a supercharger. Very unnerving!�
Aug 31, 2015
AmpedRealtor Curious if you saw any range recovery on the high end after you did this?�
Jul 2, 2016
scole04 It happened to me. Car started shutting down with 2 miles left. Just as a back story I normally arrive at superchargers with 2-4 miles including cross country trips as I trust the gps and it always works. I was having fun and for about the last 50 miles was going between 90-100mph. Right as I was pulling into the supercharger with 2 miles left it happened. Tesla told me they had no clue what was happening. I was close enough to put the car in tow mode and push it to the Supercharger. Good now but I'll take it easy under 15 miles range from now on.�
Jul 2, 2016
FlatSix911 Good information in your post ... I have been down to 3 miles of range left ... never again!
�
Jul 2, 2016
jstack6 I was down to 23 miles left last week when it was 110F out and our 2012 S 85 went into low power and a warning SERVICE NOW came on. Later when I was just trying to turn off the road it shut down. Lucky after 5 min or so it came on and I could pull off.
It's an older 2012 that we just got and it hasn't had an annual service for over a year I think.
I'm taking it to Tesla Service Center in a few days and will see what they can tell us. Maybe the car keeps the data and they can look to see what it was. Seemed just like a Roaster PEM that over heats.�
Jul 2, 2016
kort677 I've had my car down to below zero,it was down to where the charge now warning came on. the car shutting down with 2 miles is most unusual.�
Jul 3, 2016
Matias As you said yourself, it is good to use only small amount of power, when battery is low, because large power draw can drop battery voltage below shut down limit, even if there still would be some energy left.�
Jul 3, 2016
CraZ8 I got down to 5 miles once. Coming back from a long trip and had to slow down to 55 ( the horrors!) to preserve range. I had about 10 miles to homeThen in the dark with fog missed my turn off the highway which added about 5 miles to my trip. Plus my house is on top of a hill( about 500 feet of elevation over one mile) which really had me sweating the last mile. I've had range anxiety more than a few times but try not to dip below 30 miles as I'm not sure how bad that is for the battery�
Jul 3, 2016
scole04 Completely agree. Tesla should limit the voltage you can pull under 3 miles or factor it in the range calculation. My mind wonders what this voltage threshold might be.�
Jul 3, 2016
roblab A year ago my neighbor bought a Tesla S85. He wanted to know how "low he could go". I told him I had been to zero, and I understood it had about 13 miles of charge after that, but that he might ought not try it as the firmware changes now and again.
Couple weeks later, he calls me, tells me he was at the bottom of our hill (1500') at zero with 17 miles to get home. He made it, but I don't know how. We had a long discussion about battery care and towing, and he hasn't done it since.�
Jul 3, 2016
Lanber What the car thinks is range = 0 can be misleading.
I find keeping a keen eye on power limiter helps to guess where you are on power left.
Car will stop aprox at 40 kw limiter if you are not carefull with applying power. With very carefull driving you can go to 20kw limit.�
Jul 5, 2016
Tripple_T Just got back from a 3000 mile road trip. It was common to see 6-12 miles of range on the battery before getting to a charger.�
Jul 5, 2016
hiroshiy I was at a supercharger at zero km. Did this just once, under 10km (6 miles) a couple of times. Never shut down yet, but I was careful not to spend a lot of kW when the battery is low.
�
Jul 5, 2016
scaesare -1 on the road once.
6 miles left on the road another time.
0 at home for a test.
Never shut down.�
Jul 5, 2016
DrManhattan I'm pretty sure Tesla has a buffer of 15 miles or so beyond 0, and even beyond that - an extra "bricking" reserve. I have a RAV4 EV that I've driven several miles past 0 a handful of times, never shut down on me. Of course with a 100 mile range sometimes you need every mile.�
Jul 5, 2016
Max* WK057 proved it does not.
Tesla's 85 kWh rating needs an asterisk (up to 81 kWh, with up to ~77 kWh usable)
About 1/2 way down the first post.�
Jul 5, 2016
DrManhattan Interesting - but he hasn't tested a 90 or 75 battery. He mentions there is no "bricking" reserve, but I didn't read anything about a possible reserve beyond 0. There are so many posts in that thread, I've never bothered to read it.�
Jul 5, 2016
dgpcolorado I've been down to 7 miles (3.5%) and 8 miles (4%). Usual pattern is that my range dropped faster than the projection so I had to slow down. As I get closer to the next Supercharger Station I speed back up to use the remaining buffer once I know I have it made. I'd be pretty uncomfortable under 5 RM though, since I was aware that a few have had their cars stop with several RM left.
I've found that the energy graph projections are a bit optimistic in the terrain I drive � and I always drive the speed limit or lower � so I try to charge to a bigger buffer than the car recommends now, just in case I hit headwinds or something. I try to not get to 7 RM again. I appreciate the experiences of others here.
I do wonder whether or not I am damaging the battery by taking it to 3.5%, even if very briefly. Does Tesla have any guidance on that?�
Aug 11, 2016
Milin1609 On a 2400 round trip, I went down to 14 miles, the lowest. 6% I believe. Superchargers are nicely located to overcome the range anxiety, but on a side note, locations are hard to find, sometimes. I found two superchargers in the airport parking and you have to take a parking ticket to enter and either pay the charge Or you can validate to waive the parking fee.�
Aug 11, 2016
rhumbliner I've drawn mine down to 6% on two occasions, but both times I was staying within a mile of a SC and was just too lazy to stop earlier.
Had a conversation with a MX driver pulling a popup trailer who claimed he drew his down to -15 miles (he doesn't display %) and he reported that at 0 miles the center console went blank, the a/c quit and the nav system stopped but the instrument display still functioned. He was able to continue his drive to a SC.�
Aug 11, 2016
kort677 my experience has been that nothing shuts down, the car displays a charge now message and since I was only a mile or so from the SpC I don't know what would have come next. I've never had the car ration power and on trips I regularly get below 5% soc.�
Aug 11, 2016
Energie Gratiz I had my car for 2.5 years and had driven 142,000 miles with it when at one time I was in a hurry and there was 7 miles left on the battery-meter; I had to go about 1 mile. I pushed the car and got the message CAR SHUTS DOWN... never had it before.�
Aug 11, 2016
hiroshiy Pushing the car when SOC is very low seems to be a no-no...�
Aug 12, 2016
Energie Gratiz That is correct. I had driven the car many times "below zero" but drove slowly and never problems or shut down...�
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