Apr 5, 2013
yobigd20 In his Engadget interview, http://www.engadget.com/2013/04/05/elon-musk-interview/, he says exactly
The key in what is says is "and in what Superchargers can do" . So I think this confirms what others may have suggested ... I'm guessing the new capability is actually faster charging rates.
unless someone else has a better idea what he's referring to...�
Apr 5, 2013
PaceyWhitter Faster rates are really the only thing that is plausible, but a guy can dream: inductive charging?�
Apr 5, 2013
mknox I think it's faster. I believe Elon said when they were unveiled that they charged at (something like) 90 kW but could go up to (something like) 120 kW. They're probably just announcing this jump in capability.�
Apr 5, 2013
Zythryn I refuse to get my expectations up.
I will believe it when I see the actual press release.�
Apr 5, 2013
ahimberg new capability: The supercharger parking spots detect being ICEd and eject those vehicles into a pile somewhere.�
Apr 5, 2013
Bipo After the "money vs. mouth" hype, I will stay poker faced until reading the press release...
If I've to make a bid, I supposhe it'll be the 120 kW capability.�
Apr 5, 2013
jeff_adams How about a camera that takes a picture of the ICE license plate and sends it to local police/tow company. Tow company races out to collect "impound fee". ICE drivers would learn the hard way, "don't park there".....
Heck, even if Tesla just put a sign up that said all license plates are photographed for parking violations, I bet the ICE guys would think twice about parking there.�
Apr 5, 2013
Babylonfive I refuse to get hyped either.
The likely announcement is: 120kW, and perhaps some new finished SC sites.
I'm wishing for Texas triangle, but could be among those latest focus locations, or none.�
Apr 5, 2013
ChadS Now THAT would be an announcement worthy of the hype:
�
Apr 5, 2013
Jkam Getting off topic here, but I hope there is some failsafe built in to the super chargers to prevent some idiot or kid putting a paper clip in the adapter and frying themselves at 120 kWh.
Right now most EV adopters are probably closer to the higher end of the spectrum in terms of intelligence and behavior, but as EVs spread out more to the masses, you know someone on the lower end of the spectrum is going to do something stupid.�
Apr 5, 2013
JakeP I really hope he means an increase in the number of planned superchargers for the full rollout, giving 150-mile coverage or better on major routes across the US, and not just "We are opening five more this month!". But after this last fantasy "leasing" program announcement, I am not betting on it.�
Apr 5, 2013
AMPd Dramatic increase in superchargers?
Please let it be the entire west coast! NorCal to Washington�
Apr 5, 2013
Cliff Hannel Not sure this has not been announced, but I did see them putting massive battery capacity in the Tejon Pass station. This allows them to both increase peak delivery rates AND store solar-produced energy, both of which make the stations more efficient and easier to put in, as getting a 300+ kW feed from the utility isn't always easy (for multi-bay SC stations). They use a variant of the same battery packs in the cars, I think.�
Apr 5, 2013
AnOutsider Dramatic, as in 50 new sites? 100? Or should we meter for Elon-speak and say 10? I suppose that would be more than 100% increase which is a pretty dramatic number :tongue: See what happens when you cry wolf?
Sounds like this might solve the issue of 2 or more cars supercharging reducing the rates for other cars if there's a backup source to draw from?�
Apr 5, 2013
Puyallup Bill May I amend that?
Please let it be the entire west coast! NorCal through Washington.:wink:�
Apr 5, 2013
Banahogg From the engadget interview:
My guess is that the build-out announcement is that they'll be doing a big burst of supercharger installs targeting 100 supercharger stations (roughly the 2 year map from the original announcement video) by some time this year (the "well earlier" from the quote).
120kW plus batteries seems reasonable for the changes in the chargers themselves and in keeping with Elon hyperbole (describing 30% increase in peak charge rate as "dramatic")�
Apr 5, 2013
markb1 I find a "dramatic increase in the number of superchargers" much more exciting than 120kW charging.�
Apr 5, 2013
AudubonB fixed it for the geographically challenged.... :biggrin:�
Apr 5, 2013
100thMonkey The Trifecta of Tesla, Solar City and Space X are forming operation "Ice-Shield". Space X has been secretly deploying a "thousand points of light" solar satellite laser defense shield capable of instantly vaporizing gas powered violators, leaving the parking lot open and free of debris within seconds of a Tesla owner releasing the safety and pressing the big red button under "charging" on the main console screen, it also can be activated via the smart phone app! Each Tesla charging station's parking pad will act as a crucible, equipped with a Thermoelectric module which captures the heat generated from the de-icing and transforms it into electricity for charging the next car. Tesla is therefore "putting it's money where it's mouth is", assuring, with 100% certainty, that it's charging stations will be ICE free.
�
Apr 5, 2013
AMPd I knew I should have said NorCal to Canada
Hopefully we'll get our wish, I think it's pretty likely. It will open up the route for people from up north to pick up their vehicles at the factory.
Although that's unlikely as they'll have to pay CA tax.�
Apr 5, 2013
Rodolfo Paiz Come on, y'all... no love for the East Coast? I don't know how many Superchargers are on the West Coast so far, but as far as I know the total number of Superchargers from Key West to Washington D.C (about 1200 miles) is exactly...
Zero.
I don't care if one side gets more or less, but I'd like at least some over here!�
Apr 5, 2013
carrerascott I consider this so far a major failure. And with no concrete plans or time frames, it's hard to convince friends they can use this car for even slightly long trips without major planning and lots of long/overnight stops.�
Apr 5, 2013
artsci Amen.�
Apr 5, 2013
Iz As most of us know, there is one in Milford CT, which helps if traveling NorthEast. Need SCs along the I-95 corridor, a few perhaps around the GW bridge and points south.�
Apr 5, 2013
Banahogg Since he said 100 in the Engadget interview, I'm assuming some of those will go east - we don't need that many out there.
That's about the number in the original "2 year plan" from the original announcement, that has plenty of coverage for the east coast and Texas.
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Apr 5, 2013
JakeP I would not even begin to call this plenty of coverage for the Northeast. There are maybe two of them reachable from my house with my S85, and those are both traveling south or west. I am completely unable to travel to any of the major cities north and east of me, or on to the next set of cities beyond them, etc. So I cannot even get to the major routes that are covered by SCs, such as I-95 on the east coast. We need these things every 100-150 miles on *every* interstate, period. In my neck of the woods that means I-80, I-90, I-76, I-86, I-79, and I-81, most of which are glaringly ignored all around me.�
Apr 5, 2013
montgom626 Anyone have better eyes than I do? I see the name Chicago, but the location on the map is Milwaukee. Nothing even close to Chicago.�
Apr 5, 2013
jomo25 For overlay, see this thread: (BIG JPG) Supercharger overlay map�
Apr 5, 2013
montgom626 It is Milwaukee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!�
Apr 5, 2013
ItsNotAboutTheMoney 120kW increases the number charging spots available by decreasing charging time. Do not underestimate the importance of decreased charging time.�
Apr 5, 2013
markb1 That's great, but it doesn't help me if I want to go somewhere where there are no superchargers. Hence, more supercharger locations is more important to me.�
Apr 5, 2013
Zythryn Holy cow. Why don't you pay to have one installed. Let Tesla focus on the needs of ALL of their customers rather than just you.
I would be thrilled, with just one in any direction and you are apparently not going to be happy until there are 6 in your area?�
Apr 5, 2013
montgom626 I would love a SC in my area and decreased charging time!!�
Apr 5, 2013
JakeP Zythryn, I am just using myself as an example, positioned near a semi-major city in the northeast, that illustrates the gaps in coverage for this illustration, which the previous posted seemed to indicate was "plenty" for the Northeast. My point is that when you cannot make it between major cities, and you cannot even connect to the corridors where there is major SC representation, the coverage is not sufficient. And my city is far from the only example of this, looking at the overlay. I am not indicating that Tesla should specifically cover where I live just because I live there...I saw this chart before I finalized my purchase, and knew full well what I was getting into. What I am specifically stating is that Tesla should have 100-150 mile coverage on every major interstate for Superchargers to successfully cover the US. This is critical if Tesla wants to remove this obstacle to the average road-tripping American buying a new car. I hope that level of coverage is the "dramatic" announcement Elon is hinting at, though I am not banking on it.�
Apr 5, 2013
stopcrazypp This is a side point, but I expect most of the "gaps" to be covered by slower SAE DC (or CHAdeMO) chargers.
It's unrealistic to expect Tesla to be able to cover all routes even with a 150 mile gap on all interstates. Given the interstate system has 47182 miles worth of road, that will take 314-472 supercharger locations at 150-100 miles apart respectively. Tesla is working with an allowance of 100 chargers which they have to distribute on the most popular routes.
The other standards will have 100+ in a one state alone (California mainly at this point). Tesla can't afford to install that many (yet).�
Apr 5, 2013
Jason S Yes, offtopic, but...
J1772, Roadster adapter, CHaDEMO... all the adapters have solved that problem. The Tesla ones are safe from idiots.�
Apr 5, 2013
jerry33 Supercharger or not, every EVSE has no current going through it until it's plugged into the vehicle and receives a proper signal. It's hard to imagine anything safer. You can even test this with your UMC. Plug it in halfway and it will only draw 16 amps because it hasn't received the signal to draw more (of course if it's not plugged in at all there is no current at all.�
Apr 5, 2013
Zythryn My apologies, I inferred the wrong message.
I have no doubt more superchargers will be rolled out as necessary. I would not expect them to station them along every interstate though. For a private company to be doing this at all is phenomenal, but such a density of them is, IMO, more than can be reasonably expected.�
Apr 5, 2013
doug A new capability I'd like to see on the superchargers is some kind of connectivity. Let other Model S owners know how many bays are available, how many are in use, maybe even how much more time charging vehicles need.�
Apr 5, 2013
JakeP Agreed, expecting *every* interstate to be fully covered is a bit much. But once the coasts are done, I do expect to see the major cross-country arteries with 150-mile coverage, allowing you to take I-90 from Boston to Seattle, or I-80 from NYC to San Francisco. Same with the major N-S trucking routes, such as I-79, I-81, I-87, I-91/93, etc. (mentioning these NE ones as examples that I am familiar with, but same goes for elsewhere around the country). The image we are discussing doesn't even permit that, particularly in the NE. An extra 50 superchargers could provide that and much more.�
Apr 5, 2013
Beavis Give me one SC in Vail, CO and this.�
Apr 5, 2013
rekoh Couldnt agree more. Every state deserves a little love.�
Apr 5, 2013
aaron0k Pack leases and swapping ability. Acquisition or partnership with Better Place.�
Apr 5, 2013
Rodolfo Paiz You, sir, are clearly not well-acquainted with the East Coast.
Allow me to point out that this map is just an illustration, not a specific plan. Take Florida, just for example. The East Coast is 500 miles long, and this map shows two dots separated by about 300 miles. The Gulf Coast is a full 800 miles long from Key West to Pensacola, and this map shows three dots, with two of them separated by over 400 miles.
Please don't mistake this illustration for a plan, or anything like it. As Iz noted above, there is a Supercharger in Milford, CT. From there to Miami it's 1350 miles; and to Key West, it's a fully 1500 miles. And there are, again, zero Superchargers presently available.
If I were in California, I'd be quietly grateful that my Supercharger network is so far ahead of other states and wait patiently while more get built all over the place. Yes, California needs more than what is currently out there... but do you really think further Supercharger build-outs in California should take priority over the 35-40 (or more) states which currently have no Superchargers at all?
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I agree that this is important even now, and will only become more so over time.�
Apr 5, 2013
radinator I would love to see both an increase in Supercharger locations and 120kWh charging capability. I feel fortunate to be able to use the Superchargers along Highway 5 in CA, and it would be great to take road trips to places other than between NorCal and SoCal. And based on my last return trip to NorCal from SoCal, I can't wait for the 120Kwh rate. Sitting at Tejon Ranch for two hours to get fully charged because all the spots were full, and I was never able to charge at the 90kWh rate. I know that is nothing to compared to not having a Supercharger available at all, but one gets spoiled pretty quickly when they are accessible. It is great to see the Superchargers getting used to the extent that they are, but it really puts a crimp into getting fully charged in about an hour. Early days, and I look forward to the improvements we should see over the next few years.�
Apr 5, 2013
vfx Well it's not a Supercharger thread without mentioning the they need to put a Tesla HPC at each SC site.�
Apr 5, 2013
stopcrazypp Unfortunately, Californians probably are calling for superchargers to make a SF to Seattle trip possible (which is why Tesla is planning SC in the Pacific Northwest next).
In terms of most traveled roads (ignoring for the moment Model S market share, which probably also plays a role in supercharger distribution) here's the data:
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/02.cfm
California ranks pretty much #1, and Tesla installed SCs here first.
NY, NJ, and DC is also pretty far up there which is why Tesla installed superchargers there next.
Next area is Houston/Dallas in Texas.
Specific cities high on the list include Chicago, Miami, Atlanta, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Denver.
And from recent news it seems SC rollout is following exactly the road usage data posted above:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/inside-tesla-032113
From the data, I predict the next routes will be:
I-45 between Houston and Dallas/Fort Worth
I-75 between Atlanta and Miami.
I-10 between LA and Phoenix
Not sure for Chicago and Denver.�
Apr 5, 2013
deonb Some more useless & off-topic discussion:
The 120 kW (which is 250 Amp at 480 V) maximum Supercharger Capacity is irrelevant in this case. Current is determined by load, not supply.
The SuperChargers give out 480 V. The human body resistance is 100k Ohm (when dry). So from a 480V source the human body will draw 0.0048 A. More than enough to kill you, but it's completely irrelevant to the human body whether the maximum supply from that source can be 250 A or 10 A before it trips. (Of course, to the Model S that's only providing a resistance of somewhere between 1 and 5 ohm it's very relevant).
PS: Also kWh is a measure of capacity (battery size), not current (the stuff that kills you). But I assume it was just a typo.�
Apr 6, 2013
jkirkebo No Tesla SuperCharger can put out 480V. If you look at the pictures of labels that was posted, from the new Harris Ranch SC units, you'll see that they can deliver 50-410V.
But the voltage will usually be around 365V as that is the nominal voltage for the 85kWh battery. For the 60kWh battery it seems to be around 315V.
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If one car can charge at 120kW they need to increase the number of 10kW chargers in each SC unit from 12 to at least 15. Otherwise, the second car to plug into a charger that is currently delivering 120kW to the first vehicle to plug in, will get exactly 0kW. Probably the smart thing is going to 18 chargers, so you start at 60kW.�
Apr 6, 2013
neroden That makes sense.
Urban numbers, therefore useless. Superchargers are for intercity travel.
:grinds teeth: I really hope they're not so stupid as to do that. That won't get you the superchargers between San Francisco and Portland, which is what you need to enable those SF to Seattle road trips.
Similarly, here in the east we need a Supercharger in Erie, PA, and then somewhere between there and Chicago. So that it's possible to get from NY to points west.
The way I'd do it would be to look up research on the most popular *pairs of cities* to travel between, and build the superchargers along those routes first. So yes, LA to SF first, and yes, Houston to Dallas early, but ignore the high driving rates *within* metro areas.
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Let me bet on 10, all of which are on the West Coast or East Coast, allowing for no cross-country trips.�
Apr 6, 2013
yobigd20 Well, a top priority should be somewhere half between Milford and DE. lol.
when the first ones were announced, people already scouted them out and they weren't really a surprise. Has no one seen any new ones being built anywhere this time???�
Apr 6, 2013
GeekGirls Believe it or not, not everything revolves around California. The largest Tesla market outside of California was Seattle at one point, so I think it's safe to assume they're way up there on the list of areas to cater to. Trips from Seattle to Portland and Vancouver, BC would be extremely important routes to cover. I'd love to be able to drive all the way up the coast but I won't be surprised if it takes a little longer to fill in.�
Apr 6, 2013
jerry33 That works for me except that first I have to get from DFW to SF to go to Seattle.�
Apr 6, 2013
Oyvind.H Well, 500 supercharger-stations (6 bays) at $250,000 will cost 125 million. Tesla should do a secondary offering of 150 mill and install 500 superchargers within this summer. Think of the publicity! The cost is ridicilously low compared to the effect it would have. Within a month Tesla will exceed 10,000 produced Model S. If Elon exercise his stock option he`ll add just shy of 50 mill to Tesla (if I`m not mistaking?). That translates to 200 superchargers.�
Apr 6, 2013
LakeForest I hope the "Chicago" one is not in the state at all, but rather at the Michigan City, Indiana outlet malls. This would help Tesla's goal of making it possible to go across the country while enabling Chicagoans to go up the Michigan coastline as many do for vacation. COME ON TESLA�
Apr 6, 2013
MikeL Come on Tesla, indeed! I live right at the corner of I-15 and I-80 one of which runs from San Diego to Canada, the other from the Golden Gate Bridge to the George Washington Bridge! But - Traveling from here in any direction, there is an awful lot of what most people would call empty space. Just sayin'. Maybe by the time we get a Tesla store, we'll have some SuperChargers. ML�
Apr 7, 2013
wycolo > That works for me except that first I have to get from DFW to SF to go to Seattle. [jerry33]
Assuming we are not doing 'CannonBall Runs' (2 drivers going 24/7) you could place 'virtual SCs' on your route map where an overnight stay would be indicated and campgrouds with 14-50 outlets exist. One such is Rawlins, WY on I-80. Two large CGs with plenty 14-50s. Hotels/Motels next door. Just checked this one out myself so you can put it on your map.
--�
Apr 7, 2013
AudubonB Your response, WyColo, pinpoints what I dread utmost about the present and near-future prospects of long-distance traveling with an EV:Those are precisely the last places I ever would look to spend a night.
Over the past 20 years, I have taken AT LEAST one long road trip each year: the very shortest would have been 6,000 miles; two have been over 20,000 miles. I have stayed in chain or in strip motels exactly four nights in all that time...three have been in the eight years since I've been married.
I know others' opinions vary, but as for me, if I can't have access to a fast charge, the utility to me of an EV is going to be limited to trips to and about town, not for, so to speak, Seeing The USA (And Canada!).�
Apr 7, 2013
wycolo @AudobonB:
So where/how do you tend to spend the night??
With the S one could bedroll in the back or tent out as a default, of course. But I'm guessing the S demographic will opt for fresh sheets & a hot shower. Btw, one of the Rawlins cgs has a few cabins.
I prefer to pull some sort of trailer & stay at Rest Areas or Truck stops. Haven't stayed at a motel on a trip for ten years.
--�
Apr 7, 2013
jdevo2004 I hope Tesla starts choosing out of the way locations along interstates to allow for long distance drivers to charge up rather than freeloaders to charge up. This supercharger network was never meant to be the free gas station to get around town, it was meant for long distance driving.�
Apr 7, 2013
jerry33 I try for a bed & breakfast whenever possible. The owners are usually nice folks and you often get to chat with the three or four other guests as well.�
Apr 7, 2013
stopcrazypp I disagree. Urban numbers offer an indirect way to tell popular routes while taking population into account. And I think the routes I pointed out are likely high up on the list of most traveled intercity routes by car.
The only data on this is the 1995 American Transportation Study:
http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Tables.asp?DB_ID=505&DB_Name=American%20Travel%20Survey%20%28ATS%29%201995&DB_Short_Name=ATS
Top ten origin and destination pairs are (keep in mind this includes all types of transportation and does not give heavier weight to areas with higher population):
DC to NY
Portland to Seattle
Providence to NY
Eugene to Portland
DC to Norfolk
DC to Philadelphia
Las Vegas to LA
Nashville to Atlanta
Phoenix to Tuscon
Birmingham to Atlanta�
Apr 7, 2013
Norbert However, cities are often the connection point between smaller cities, and/or rural areas. And smaller cities the connection points between larger cities.�
Apr 7, 2013
shady I think Elon will announce that Superchargers will charge half your battery in 5 minutes*
* based on you were going to stop at the restroom anyway for 5 minutes plus another 20 minutes to eat
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Apr 7, 2013
AMPd Can't disagree with him on that one!�
Apr 7, 2013
ModelS1079 You have quelled so many fears over the past 6 months, through solid understanding and simple explanation. Never log out because we will most all be lost.
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Read: when supercharging after a rainstorm when the wipers throw a cup of water on you as you get in the car, your Ohms of resistance go down and you charge more efficiently. Apparently this does not benefit the car.�
May 9, 2013
aaron0k Today -> Elon: There is a way for the Tesla Model S to be recharged throughout the country faster than you could fill a gas tank.
Hmmm?�
May 9, 2013
mitch672 To quote Captain Kirk from StarTrek "More power, Scotty"
SuperCharging at 1C (90KW) now, nearly 1.5C on the "new generation" (120KW). Suppose 2C or 3C is possible without too much pack degradation, and you combine it with a one time use "metal air battery", you get replacement "modules" and water at the SuperCharger locations from a vending machine. The one time use battery has 1,000 mile range, just replace the "metal" and add water... Could be a new option or retrofit in the Model S, and perhaps they have a demo car already done and working (he hinted about a reveal/demo in a recent tweet). Adding a few quarts of water is faster than filling a conventional gas tank.
Edit: with the above system, you have a 1,300 mile range vehicle that's "filled" in 15 minutes.
A typical ICE vehicle would need 2 or 3 stops at a gas station to accomplish this, clearly this is faster than fueling the ICE alternative.�
May 9, 2013
WarpedOne Only one way: fully automatic battery swap�
May 9, 2013
jeff_adams The frunk has a weird square cubby in the back. Wouldn't that be a natural place for battery that could be swapped? It's right under the "nose".�
May 9, 2013
yobigd20 nah, it'll just feed the Model S a senzu bean.
�
May 9, 2013
aaron0k You would roll in like you would an automatic car wash; the discharged pack unbolted and lowered from the bottom of the car and a new charged pack swapped in. You would never leave your car; it can be done in <5 minutes (e.g. "faster than you could fill your car with gas").
Supercharging can't scale; with 30-60 minute wait times and MS's owner already queuing. Enthusiasts (us) can tolerate this... the 'average' consumer will not. It would also open another market for Tesla; Condo/Apartment dwellers who don't have charging ability at 'home'.�
May 9, 2013
raymond Yet Tesla is spending serious time, money and effort into setting up SC infrastructure. And all the while they have a better alternative around the corner. Naaaah.�
May 9, 2013
gaswalla You gotta charge the empty batteries somehow... and doing it at 40 or 80 amps won't be fast enough�
May 9, 2013
aaron0k You still need SC ability... to charge the swaps and for those who just need a quick top up. It's all going as planned... Tesla > SuperChargers > Pack Swaps > SolarCity�
May 9, 2013
deonb ^ This.
It doesn't make sense to have a SC infrastructure and a battery exchange program (whether Li-ion or Al-air).
The only thing I can think of that would justify both is if a battery exchange program has a big downside. E.g. Al-air swap costs $60 per 300 miles. But it is a very thin argument. It would have to by mere coincidence be at such a perfect price point for people to still want to use the supercharger, but not so expensive that nobody would use the Al-air batteries.
I haven't seen or been able to make an argument that's anywhere near coherent and takes into account all we know to date. Which might mean there is something we don't know. Uhh... I mean something that can't be explained by anybody's grasp of the current state of the art - rather than merely being an execution on something we know of.
Sigh.
The Model S needs to come with a build in Valium dispenser from all the stress that its owner encounters due to Elon Musk's twitter account.�
May 9, 2013
lolachampcar Twitter, what's that?�
May 9, 2013
aronth5 That "weird square" is where the front motor (AWD) goes on the Model X and eventually where it will go when AWD is available on the MS.�
May 9, 2013
CapitalistOppressor There are anecdotal reports (backed up by the baseline specs of the 18650 cells) that the Model S battery packs are proving to be practically indestructible in ongoing long term lab testing.
What if they've found that 2C charging will only result in "damage" that will leave the pack still far more durable than any equivalent ICE vehicle?
Early promises for SuperCharging were fairly dramatically reduced as the initial production date got closer, and my recollection is that there was discussion that Tesla didn't have time to validate faster charging protocols. Maybe the required time has passed and they all they need to do is send out a software update.�
May 9, 2013
markb1 I think was discussed in another thread. But the motor + inverter + gear box is too big to fit in that cubby. If there's an AWD S, you'll lose more than just the cubby. And they have to shift around existing components to get the axel in and everything connected to it.�
May 9, 2013
mitch672 Quite possible CO, 180KW would mean more than (18) 10KW Model S chargers per SC, most likely 1/3 to 1/2 more than that, as currently each SC feeds 2 charging locations. Maybe they've designed something specialized that's less expensive than using the Model S charger module. Then there is the issue with increased cable thickness etc. I guess we'll find out next week.�
May 9, 2013
vfx My guess is 120kWh charging at Superchagers or hotels and some Teslive/Tesla puzzle math where it's technically faster to travel across the country charging at night while sleeping over time wasted doing multiple gas fill-ups.�
May 9, 2013
aronth5 Agree. I was not trying to imply it would fit in that space just that the space is already accounted for. AWD.�
May 9, 2013
zeron Supercharger rollout has been slower than expected. When did they last introduce a new charging place? So their sunk costs might not be prohibitive to introducing a different way of charging, either through battery swaps or the proposed metal-air batteries.�
May 9, 2013
Chas F There is another possibility:
If you combine the current battery with a high-capacity supercapacitor, the cap could be charged in seconds (or maybe a few minutes) and then discharge into the battery at a rate faster than you could burn it off. Elon has mentioned the possible use of supercapacitors in the past year. Of course that would mean a hardware upgrade to the Model S. My guess would be it would be included as an option in the next generation of Model S/X/Gen III.
Just guessing....�
May 9, 2013
jomo25 Maybe. The SC announcement is targeted next week. But the 5th announcement (under nose) is gonna be another 2-3 wks after that. And this what Elon mentioned after today's tweet. So, not sure if the SC announcement will just be SC or this new mysterious 'faster than gas fillup' one.�
May 9, 2013
shady Here is the gas tank he was referring to
�
May 9, 2013
tander Is it this going to be this week or next week for the SC announcement? Teaser today, announcement tomorrow?
�
May 10, 2013
Andrew Wolfe I don't think so.
If my quick math is right - an ultracapacitor about the size of 2 coke cans is just over .30 WH. You would need 300,000 of them to hold an 85KW charge.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Maxwell-Technologies/BMOD0058-E016-B02/?qs=ljcHIlmXGrbhsbyf4oouFg%3D%3D&gclid=CKKnzLn7i7cCFWQ6QgodGV0AHQ�
May 11, 2013
Chas F According to my read of the product specs, stored energy is more like 2 Wh than .3, which brings your estimate of 300K down to 43K (still a lot). And this is assuming using these 16V, off-the-shelf super caps, not some order-of-magnitude capacitance improvement as hinted by Elon. A hundred fold improvement over these would get you in the ballpark by my "quick math".�
May 11, 2013
jeff_adams I've always wondered about the "rocket towers" that were built by the original superchargers. Could they have a mysterious function? Wouldn't that be like Elon to hide some new technology under our noses? :smile:�
May 11, 2013
markb1 Rocket towers, plural? They only ever built one supercharger obelisk, at the Telsa Design Center in Hawthorne. Pretty that just houses the superchargers, which are just big metal boxes behind cinder block walls at all the other supercharger sites.�
May 11, 2013
raymond I have come to understand that Tesla uses its own cell chemistry co-developed with Panasonic. It would come as no surprise to me that they have tweaked the chemistry in such ways that it can deal with even 4C-charging. Some Li-ion chemistries go up to 20C, so 4C isn't all that spectacular. However...
"faster than you could fill a gas tank" -- at 5-10 gallons per minute a 20 gallon tank fills up in 2-4 minutes. Without resorting to Elon-math that means charging at 15-30C to even be *on par* with filling up a gas tank.
From the current 1C to 4C may be doable, but 15-30C would *really* surprise me.
My conclusion: It must be battery swapping after all, probably combined with the SC infrastructure. The demo will show how it's done, but I wouldn't expect anything on policies, pricing, etc.�
May 11, 2013
jeff_adams You're most likely right, but if the demonstration takes place in Hawthorne instead of Freemont......�
May 11, 2013
Andrew Wolfe Well one of us made a mistake.
Energy is .5CV^2 and should end up in Joules. (0.5) * (58F) * (16.2V) ^2 = 7610 Joules.
1 joule = 0.000277777778 watt hours
so 7610 Joules = 2.1WH.
Apparently - it was me...
(I think I used the voltage from a different data sheet)�
May 12, 2013
jeff_adams Maybe Elon was just waiting for Iron Man 3 to come out so he could introduce a "Tesla Coil" adapter for the frunk. Hehe.....�
May 12, 2013
joshuaeven You mean an Arc Reactor? Yes, please!�
May 14, 2013
AMPd SC announcement pushed to next week
something else will be talked about this week�
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